I finally got a chance to play with the 40x that i bought about a month ago. I still havent shot it but i have noticed something that is a little troubling. It is a 1968 remington 40xb in 22lr that i bought for a trainer. I dropped it into my manners t2 that i have on my 308(i bought the 40x for a trainer specifically to go in this stock), anyways, when looking down the barrel channel the barrel is not centered. One side of the channel has just enough space for a piece of paper, and the other has a good 1/8". It is the same with the original wood stock. I pulled the barrreled action out and upon further inspection realized that the barrel is threaded crooked into the reciever. Looks as if the reciever threads are cut off-center. I have no gunsmith experience and no gauges but it can be seen with the naked eye. The barrel does not appear to be bent. It looks straight all the way to the reciever. Is this a common problem or has anyone ever seen this before?
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Crooked barrel on 40x **PICS UP**
- Thread starter Boydo
- Start date
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
Just to clarify it can be clearly seen when looking straight down the barrel towards the action. Where the barrel meets the lug the action kicks to the right. When holding the action nearest to you and looking down the barrel the muzzle is kicked way left of center.
Just to clarify it can be clearly seen when looking straight down the barrel towards the action. Where the barrel meets the lug the action kicks to the right. When holding the action nearest to you and looking down the barrel the muzzle is kicked way left of center.
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
Do not be surprised to see this happen on a factory barreled action.
Had a 22-250 Varmint heavy barreled bolt action rifle that came from the factory with its' barrel threaded at about that same angle (back about 1997).
If it had shot acceptably, I might have left it alone, unfortunately it did not shoot well.
Mine was easy to fix simply by removing and discarding the old barrel, then had the action trued up and rebarreled with a PacNor Supermatch.
This is the chance you take (regardless of who the manufacturer is) when you buy any "production" factory rifle. Some are very good, some aren't as good.
Some manufacturers do a fair job of quality control, but there are times when a problem will slip through and get shipped.
Suggest you see how well it shoots before worrying too much about it.....what matters is lead on target............AMEN
Do not be surprised to see this happen on a factory barreled action.
Had a 22-250 Varmint heavy barreled bolt action rifle that came from the factory with its' barrel threaded at about that same angle (back about 1997).
If it had shot acceptably, I might have left it alone, unfortunately it did not shoot well.
Mine was easy to fix simply by removing and discarding the old barrel, then had the action trued up and rebarreled with a PacNor Supermatch.
This is the chance you take (regardless of who the manufacturer is) when you buy any "production" factory rifle. Some are very good, some aren't as good.
Some manufacturers do a fair job of quality control, but there are times when a problem will slip through and get shipped.
Suggest you see how well it shoots before worrying too much about it.....what matters is lead on target............AMEN
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
My fear is that even if it shoots good and i zero it at 50 yards, then will i have to add windage at the farther distances because the barrel is pointing off center
My fear is that even if it shoots good and i zero it at 50 yards, then will i have to add windage at the farther distances because the barrel is pointing off center
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boydo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My fear is that even if it shoots good and i zero it at 50 yards, then will i have to add windage at the farther distances because the barrel is pointing off center </div></div>
^^With the barrel being off center by as much as 1/4" to one side at some point on the stock and barely free-floating on the other...I'd say your concern re: windage at extended ranges (or any range other than your zero range) will be an issue.^^
Certainly sounds like it got "bubba'd" at some point in its unfortunate life whether it was at the factory (which would have been a good long while ago by all accounts) or sometime thereafter. Pics would help this thread along, but it could be a number of different problems, including barrel threads f-ed up, receiver threads f-ed up, some jackhole managed to cross-thread the barrel when installing it, etc., etc. Could be another sad case of home gunsmithing run amok .
Is it the original (or at least what appears to be the original) barrel or a replacement/rebarrel job? Did the person you purchased it from mention the barrel issue or otherwise provide you with any details on work he'd done or documentation of any gunsmithing otherwise performed on the rifle?
The 40X rimfires are excellent rifles and if it were mine, I'd be getting it looked at and figure out what needs done to correct it...plain and simple. There are several smiths here on the Hide that have worked over 40X rimfires and turned them into not only terrific shooting rifles, but ones that are beautiful to look at too. If you have a look around, you may be able to find someone to look at it for you and get the problem corrected without costing you too much. Aside from that, it may be time to get with Mike at BlackOps Precision about his Ravage 40X repeater conversions and upgrades if you are going to have to go to the trouble of a rebarrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boydo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My fear is that even if it shoots good and i zero it at 50 yards, then will i have to add windage at the farther distances because the barrel is pointing off center </div></div>
^^With the barrel being off center by as much as 1/4" to one side at some point on the stock and barely free-floating on the other...I'd say your concern re: windage at extended ranges (or any range other than your zero range) will be an issue.^^
Certainly sounds like it got "bubba'd" at some point in its unfortunate life whether it was at the factory (which would have been a good long while ago by all accounts) or sometime thereafter. Pics would help this thread along, but it could be a number of different problems, including barrel threads f-ed up, receiver threads f-ed up, some jackhole managed to cross-thread the barrel when installing it, etc., etc. Could be another sad case of home gunsmithing run amok .
Is it the original (or at least what appears to be the original) barrel or a replacement/rebarrel job? Did the person you purchased it from mention the barrel issue or otherwise provide you with any details on work he'd done or documentation of any gunsmithing otherwise performed on the rifle?
The 40X rimfires are excellent rifles and if it were mine, I'd be getting it looked at and figure out what needs done to correct it...plain and simple. There are several smiths here on the Hide that have worked over 40X rimfires and turned them into not only terrific shooting rifles, but ones that are beautiful to look at too. If you have a look around, you may be able to find someone to look at it for you and get the problem corrected without costing you too much. Aside from that, it may be time to get with Mike at BlackOps Precision about his Ravage 40X repeater conversions and upgrades if you are going to have to go to the trouble of a rebarrel.
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
I bought the gun at an auction so i have no history on the rifle. I believe this gun to be all original with no gunsmithing done to it. I believe it has the original barrel because it has remington marks on the barrel and original iron sight holes. I will try to get some pics up.
I bought the gun at an auction so i have no history on the rifle. I believe this gun to be all original with no gunsmithing done to it. I believe it has the original barrel because it has remington marks on the barrel and original iron sight holes. I will try to get some pics up.
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
I did the best I could with the pictures. Its real easy to see how crooked this thing is with your eyes but its difficult to see in the pics. Above I stated having 1/4" on one side of the barrel channel. Upon looking at it again i realize that is a large exageration, but it is a substantial amount. Maybe an 1/8"
I did the best I could with the pictures. Its real easy to see how crooked this thing is with your eyes but its difficult to see in the pics. Above I stated having 1/4" on one side of the barrel channel. Upon looking at it again i realize that is a large exageration, but it is a substantial amount. Maybe an 1/8"
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
Contact the company or gunsmith that got you the barrel and talk to them. That's very bizarre
Contact the company or gunsmith that got you the barrel and talk to them. That's very bizarre
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
I have seen a Remington 770 that had this problem right out of the box.
I have seen a Remington 770 that had this problem right out of the box.
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
It is the factory barrel, and has not been touched by a gunsmith. this gun is completely original as it came from remington in 1968
It is the factory barrel, and has not been touched by a gunsmith. this gun is completely original as it came from remington in 1968
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
Quite simply put, it's a production rifle. look at any production rifle with a free-floated barrel, and you'll see that same thing, maybe not to as great an extent, but you will see it. The only reason you don't see it with pressure bedded barrels is that the pressure bedding centers the barrel channel of the stock on the barrel.
Quite simply put, it's a production rifle. look at any production rifle with a free-floated barrel, and you'll see that same thing, maybe not to as great an extent, but you will see it. The only reason you don't see it with pressure bedded barrels is that the pressure bedding centers the barrel channel of the stock on the barrel.
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
first I'd shoot it and see what it does...zero at 50 then dial the scope vertically at 10-100 yards and see how it tracks. I had a 700 that looked similar to that but tracked fine...figured as long as it shot well, it was fine.
If it's off more than say 1" horizontally from 10-100, contact Remington...They may fix it for free or at a reasonable cost. Gunsmithing it is another option but may cost more.
first I'd shoot it and see what it does...zero at 50 then dial the scope vertically at 10-100 yards and see how it tracks. I had a 700 that looked similar to that but tracked fine...figured as long as it shot well, it was fine.
If it's off more than say 1" horizontally from 10-100, contact Remington...They may fix it for free or at a reasonable cost. Gunsmithing it is another option but may cost more.
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seanh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...contact Remington...They may fix it for free or at a reasonable cost. </div></div>
Since the gun is 45 years old, I am curious what the response to such a request would be.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seanh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...contact Remington...They may fix it for free or at a reasonable cost. </div></div>
Since the gun is 45 years old, I am curious what the response to such a request would be.
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
That base on there makes it tough to see....it could be a combo of bad base holes and twisted lug. The barrel may have been chambered in a headstock and had a curvy bore.....the muzzle end flounders pretty good some times. Take the action out and roll the barrel across the edge of a table, as wonky as it is.....you should see the action flounder.
That base on there makes it tough to see....it could be a combo of bad base holes and twisted lug. The barrel may have been chambered in a headstock and had a curvy bore.....the muzzle end flounders pretty good some times. Take the action out and roll the barrel across the edge of a table, as wonky as it is.....you should see the action flounder.
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
To be quite honest, very few production rifles have the barrel centered exactly with the outside of the receiver. And the outside of the receiver is what centers the rifle in the stock. We get hundreds of complaints a year about our barrel channels being crooked and pretty much every time we get get both the stock back and the barreled action it is the barrel a bit off center with the outside of the receiver. It may be right, left, up or down. All the complaints about the barrel not being free floated and touching the bottom of the barrel channel at the forearm are usually this same problem. But, it is probably within factory tolerances and does not seem to affect accuracy at all.
If you sight it in at 50 yds it should not effect your windage at longer ranges as you are sighting in the scope to the barrels point of impact, not to the center line of the action. This is why we have windage adjustment turrets on scopes and sometimes windage adjustment screws on scope bases. For a .22 I wouldn't worry about it. If the barrel touches the forearm at all just sand it out to clear and go shoot the crap out of the rifle. The barrel will most probably outshoot most of the ammo you can find for it.
To be quite honest, very few production rifles have the barrel centered exactly with the outside of the receiver. And the outside of the receiver is what centers the rifle in the stock. We get hundreds of complaints a year about our barrel channels being crooked and pretty much every time we get get both the stock back and the barreled action it is the barrel a bit off center with the outside of the receiver. It may be right, left, up or down. All the complaints about the barrel not being free floated and touching the bottom of the barrel channel at the forearm are usually this same problem. But, it is probably within factory tolerances and does not seem to affect accuracy at all.
If you sight it in at 50 yds it should not effect your windage at longer ranges as you are sighting in the scope to the barrels point of impact, not to the center line of the action. This is why we have windage adjustment turrets on scopes and sometimes windage adjustment screws on scope bases. For a .22 I wouldn't worry about it. If the barrel touches the forearm at all just sand it out to clear and go shoot the crap out of the rifle. The barrel will most probably outshoot most of the ammo you can find for it.
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
P.S. If you have or have access to a really well tramed in lathe just take a production round action ( Rem, Sav. etc) and chuck the receiver up in the jaws and then put a dial indicator out on the muzzle and hand rotate the chuck few times. I would honestly estimate that your changes of finding a production barreled action at is within .010" at 20" is about 1 in 50.
P.S. If you have or have access to a really well tramed in lathe just take a production round action ( Rem, Sav. etc) and chuck the receiver up in the jaws and then put a dial indicator out on the muzzle and hand rotate the chuck few times. I would honestly estimate that your changes of finding a production barreled action at is within .010" at 20" is about 1 in 50.
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
It is not only a cosmetic concern that i have. If it shoots then i can live with it. But my biggest concern is that with how far the muzzle veers to the left i will have to compensate more and more the farther out i go. I bought this gun to shoot silouhette out to 200+ yards. Hopefully i can get to the range this weekend to find out for sure
It is not only a cosmetic concern that i have. If it shoots then i can live with it. But my biggest concern is that with how far the muzzle veers to the left i will have to compensate more and more the farther out i go. I bought this gun to shoot silouhette out to 200+ yards. Hopefully i can get to the range this weekend to find out for sure
Re: Crooked barrel on 40x
Boydo, If this offset does turn out to be a problem at 200 yds a less expensive solution ( vrsus a new barrel and action truing job) is a set of Burris Signature rings and one of their offset insert kits. Just center the windage turrent, leave the front ring centered, and use the offset inserts to move the scope in the rear ring to the right until it is sighted in at 50. This will line the scope up with the barrel rather than it being lined up with the action.
Boydo, If this offset does turn out to be a problem at 200 yds a less expensive solution ( vrsus a new barrel and action truing job) is a set of Burris Signature rings and one of their offset insert kits. Just center the windage turrent, leave the front ring centered, and use the offset inserts to move the scope in the rear ring to the right until it is sighted in at 50. This will line the scope up with the barrel rather than it being lined up with the action.
