Currently can't find Varget or RL15...best 308 powder for Illinois 120 degree temp changes

A

ahage2

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Minuteman
Mar 18, 2013
25
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Central, IL
#1
New reloader here.
I'm just finishing up setting up my reloading bench. I just finally picked up some 175 SMK HPBT and some Remington 9 1/2 primers at Scheels. I've read a crap ton and was wanting to get some Varget or Reloader 15 for my powder. However, I'm having a really hard time finding either powders(even though I've only checked Scheels...don't wanna have to order online due to the hellaciously expensive shipping fees). My Lyman manual says the "potentially most accurate load" powder is N550, but I don't hear a lot about that. So I guess to get down to the brass...I'm shooting a rem 700 26" varmint barrel and loading 175's for it. I know I need to tune the load to my gun, but my biggest worry about powder is that I live in Illinois and our temperatures fluctuate 120(100+ or -15-) degrees yearly. I shoot year round and thats why I wanted varget...temp stable. I'd be fine waiting to find a pound of Varget, but I'd hate to develop a load and then not be able to find it any more....so is there anything yall would recommend outside of those two that would handle the weather/humidity here, but still provide equally accurate loads?...or should I wait?

Thanks in advance!!

Adam
 
#2
I'm sure some will think the following is a sacrilege, but Varget has never impressed me that much. Does it do good? Yes, but I've had better Luck with other powders. 4064 is readily available, and has done better or me than Varget. RL-15 has done the best, but is temp sensitive, and is more rare than unicorns at the moment. If you were further north in Illinois, I would gladly help you with the Varget.
 
#3
I used to shoot RE15 in my 308SPSS but now I use CFE & 2000MR, can't really say if either are temp sensitive but a powder like H4350 an Extreme powder like varget hasn't shown me it is either. Besides, with 2000MR you'll get more velocity than RE15 with the 175MK.
 
#4
H4895, IMR4895, IMR4064, AA4064, IMR8208xbr, PP2000MR, CFE223, RE15, H335, WIN748, N140

Are a few powders that work nicely in 308.

Don't worry about temp sensitivity, it's not the bubonic plague. Work up a load in the cold, find max charge, then back off a full 1.5gr and final tweak thereabouts.

Chrono every time you go out (just 2-3 rounds), and keep track of temperature and velocity. By summertime you'll have a characteristic curve for that powder. Work that into your ballistic firing solution (you must compensate for temp changes in atmosphere anyway), and you'll be fine.

The Hodgdon Extreme lineup is nice, don't misunderstand, but is hardly necessary.

Frankly, you SHOULD monitor velocity vs.temp for the extreme powders, too.
 
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#5
You need to keep a look out online, varget is out there.
While I have smoking loads with pp2000mr, it is temp sensitive.
I've got my staple load I shoot with varget every time I do load develop.... Whether it's 9F or 99F, the load shoots 2800-2810fps. Anything IMR/PP whatever I have tried varies quite a bit.
If you always fire within seconds of chambering, maybe it's controllable for you, if you wait a little too long with a hot barrel, you will see a difference.

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#6
I am just adapting to whatever I can find. The shops around here don't have much and never the same powder stays in stock. I typically use bl-c2 but found some cfe223 last month. Varget is rare out here too. These times, you cant be too picky.
 
#14
Watch all the big component sites. Wideners, Natchez, Graf, Powder Valley, etc., etc. On the ones you can, ask to be notified as soon as it's in stock. But keep those sites open and refresh 'em often. I got 20lbs of powder last month, 10 of H335 and 10 of BL-C(2). They got it in that day, but were likely out by that evening. It goes fast. You gotta be quick.

I've given up on local stores. They just can't get enough and keep it in stock long enough for me to even drive down there!

Good luck.
 
#15
ahage2,

VV-N550 or PP 2000 MR are your best bets for best accuracy. I use the same charge for either powder for a particular bullet/case combination. Folks tell me the .308 loads with 2000 MR are a little bit less temperature sensitive.

HTH,
DocB
 
#16
The IMR 8208 XBR is extremely insensitive to temperature changes. Untitled Document

From what I understand based on listening to interviews with the designer, they were trying to get a more temperature stable version of Varget (IMR and Hodgdon are in same family of companies)... Might want to try that if you have such extreme temp swings...
 
#18
It maybe getting a little better out there. I ran the LGS and scored RL-15, H4895, and H4350 last week. One of them had 5lb jugs of 8208 XBR but I've never used it.

My favorite 308 powders are RL-15 and H4895
 
#20
I was in the Springfield Scheels last Saturday. They had IMR4320 on sale for $150.00 a can, it burns like Re15 and has similar temp. sensitivity. I think I saw some XBR8208 there too.
They had Varget on the table at the Indy1500 Friday for $220.00 a can so don't think it aint available.
 
#26
#28
JRM83 said:
Thread from two years ago where a gentleman on the Hide tested AR-COMP vs. Varget for temperature sensitivity.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...p-test-ar-comp-vs-varget-308-win-223-rem.html

I'm not sure why there's not a lot of love going around for AR-COMP. Maybe it's because it doesn't have the proven track record like some of the other powders such as Varget.
Click to expand...

I don't know about others but it doesn't interest me because it's faster burning than varget. so the heavy bullet folks will do better with varget and above. I'll say it again, a powder that's temperature stable, high density and about 75% of the way to h4350 from varget would sell like hotcakes.
IMR4007ssc is close but not as stable as either varget or h4350 and also still needs drop tubes.

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#29
J-ROD said:
I don't know about others but it doesn't interest me because it's faster burning than varget. so the heavy bullet folks will do better with varget and above. I'll say it again, a powder that's temperature stable, high density and about 75% of the way to h4350 from varget would sell like hotcakes.
IMR4007ssc is close but not as stable as either varget or h4350 and also still needs drop tubes.

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Click to expand...

Where are you getting your data on burn rate? According to Alliant the burn rates between AR-COMP and Varget should be very close.

Alliant press release - New AR-Comp Powder Starts Shipping This Week « Daily Bulletin
 
#30
Just looking at charge weights vs MV of results I've seen on here. I don't know for sure, maybe someone who has used it with heavy bullets and long barrels will post up. I have seen some excellent ES/SD's on here with that powder

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#32
J-ROD said:
I don't know about others but it doesn't interest me because it's faster burning than varget. so the heavy bullet folks will do better with varget and above. I'll say it again, a powder that's temperature stable, high density and about 75% of the way to h4350 from varget would sell like hotcakes.
IMR4007ssc is close but not as stable as either varget or h4350 and also still needs drop tubes.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I've been saying the same thing myself about the burn rate between Varget and H4350..........VV N-150 falls in that category fairly well, burn charts show it closer to H4350 but in my experience its actually closer to Varget. I know its not a "extreme temp" powder but i have used it with 200gr hybrids (308 FTR) with very good results in different temp ranges. I've read on this forum where a couple guys said it was temp sensitive but i haven't seen it yet. Velocity is comparable to Varget with my 200gr load but accuracy/ES & SD is better with N-150.
 
#33
Last I checked, Illinois wasn't exactly lenient on gun laws which limits the choices you have to shop locally. My cousin near Chicago tells me how he has to drive 2 hours away and pay something like $30/hr to shoot at an indoor range and can't find an outdoor one.

I would just order online or settle for another powder. IMR 4064 works very well if you can get past the larger stick size. Varget on average has sticks around 1.4mm while IMR 4064 runs around 2.1mm (National Center for Forensic Science). According to Dan Newberry who developed the OCW method believes that FGMM uses IMR 4064 (http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ral-gold-medal-match-load-mk-316-mod-0-a.html) which is a bonus. I am also told that it does not vary much lot to lot.
 
#34
JRM83 said:
Thread from two years ago where a gentleman on the Hide tested AR-COMP vs. Varget for temperature sensitivity.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...p-test-ar-comp-vs-varget-308-win-223-rem.html

I'm not sure why there's not a lot of love going around for AR-COMP. Maybe it's because it doesn't have the proven track record like some of the other powders such as Varget.
Click to expand...

FLIGHT762 said:
AR Comp has become one of my favorite powders.
Click to expand...

J-ROD said:
Just looking at charge weights vs MV of results I've seen on here. I don't know for sure, maybe someone who has used it with heavy bullets and long barrels will post up. I have seen some excellent ES/SD's on here with that powder

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I've got an 8 lb jug of the stuff I was able to accrue during the scare of 2012-13. I may have to give it a shot in both the .223 and .308
 
#35
ashih313 said:
Last I checked, Illinois wasn't exactly lenient on gun laws which limits the choices you have to shop locally. My cousin near Chicago tells me how he has to drive 2 hours away and pay something like $30/hr to shoot at an indoor range and can't find an outdoor one.

I would just order online or settle for another powder. IMR 4064 works very well if you can get past the larger stick size. Varget on average has sticks around 1.4mm while IMR 4064 runs around 2.1mm (National Center for Forensic Science). According to Dan Newberry who developed the OCW method believes that FGMM uses IMR 4064 (http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ral-gold-medal-match-load-mk-316-mod-0-a.html) which is a bonus. I am also told that it does not vary much lot to lot.
Click to expand...

your cousin is not looking very hard - less than 2 hours from the city north, west and south are outdoor ranges - and Ill has no special laws restricting powder sales
 
#36
George63 said:
your cousin is not looking very hard - less than 2 hours from the city north, west and south are outdoor ranges - and Ill has no special laws restricting powder sales
Click to expand...

No laws restricting powder sales, but not enough incentive to justify large quantities to enter the state in comparison due to strict gun laws. This means more scarcities than in states like Arizona.
 
#37
like most out of state residents, you hear this and that about this state, but are really in the dark about the shooting community - Ill has a large and relatively prosperous population that actually purchases a lot of firearms, what they do not do is shoot them proportionately, despite this there is significant demand for reloading supplies - the crux is how they are purchased in volume, that is usually mail order, because the sales tax is considerably more than shipping - this is more the influence that has kept stock levels of reloading supplies down - but in reality it does not matter where you are in the country, there are always loading items you would like but cannot go into the local store and lay your hands on for a reasonable price

a couple other little known items that may surprise outsiders:

suburban chicago has one of the largest gun shops, stocking up to 6000 firearms( but unfortunately run by assholes )

the largest shotgun sport facility is in southern IL (and actually owned by the state)
 
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#40
The owner was a good dude when he owned the smaller store on Rt30. Same when he had the small place that the tornado took out. They seem to have lost their way....

I've been frequenting a LGS out my way with good success for components.
 
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