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Curtis Custom Actions (Vector)
- Thread starter Cold_Bore_88
- Start date
not a brother company at all. completely seperate. joel owns the vector design that's why its so similar
Not worth to start a new thread, but I just wonna let some of you who has problems with Curtis vector with unexplained overpressure, flat primers, and heavy extractor marks even on low powder-charge that I fixed the issue on mine.
Two of my 6.5 cm barrels are set to be hand tight by different smiths and both of my barrels gets the same problem. The problem is that when the barrel is new all of my fired brass measures 1.562-1.563 from base to shoulder datum( virgin brass measures 1.556), when my fired brass from my tikka or my ruger never measures more than 1.560, then I was thinking ok maybe due to its SAMMI chamber and a custom chamber difference, then after 300-500 rounds later I started to have unexplained pressure problems on a mild charge(41.7gr re16 behind 140hybrids), then I dropped the charge to 40.5-41gr same shit! Dropped again to 39.8-40gr and same f**king shit! the brass measures 1.565 after firing and the brass won’t even last more than 3-4 firings before the primer pockets become so loose. Then I took off my barrel clean the hell out of it, tighten the barrel down has tight as I can with my hands. Back to the range did some more testing with 40gr charge in my virgin brass and resulted the same F**king problem! 3-4 rounds fired out of my 10 round shot strings had super heavy bolt lift, flatten primer and heavy extractor mark! at this point I believe that I’m having excessive headspace.
My barrel vice came in today, put my barreled action on the vice, used a channel lock with towels wrapped around the action to tighten it down as much as I can with out marring or damaging my action, shot over 40 rounds of my 40gr charge without a single problem, super easy bolt lift and all primers are as round as it can be. Brass now measures 1.562-1.563 this time after firing, the headspace still a little more than I like, now I’m waiting for my action wrench to come so I can torque it down to 70-90ft lbs and see if I can get another .001-.002 thread crush.
So my theory is that after some amounts of firing, the threads on these actions tends to stretch under pressure, heat and stress, and result in increased headspacing and bolt to face clearances.
Lastly I hope all of you who has problems like me can solve your issues, becuase this is how I got mine fixed.
Have a nice day and will never buy another Curtis action again becuase the quick switch barrel system is not what it advertised to be.
Two of my 6.5 cm barrels are set to be hand tight by different smiths and both of my barrels gets the same problem. The problem is that when the barrel is new all of my fired brass measures 1.562-1.563 from base to shoulder datum( virgin brass measures 1.556), when my fired brass from my tikka or my ruger never measures more than 1.560, then I was thinking ok maybe due to its SAMMI chamber and a custom chamber difference, then after 300-500 rounds later I started to have unexplained pressure problems on a mild charge(41.7gr re16 behind 140hybrids), then I dropped the charge to 40.5-41gr same shit! Dropped again to 39.8-40gr and same f**king shit! the brass measures 1.565 after firing and the brass won’t even last more than 3-4 firings before the primer pockets become so loose. Then I took off my barrel clean the hell out of it, tighten the barrel down has tight as I can with my hands. Back to the range did some more testing with 40gr charge in my virgin brass and resulted the same F**king problem! 3-4 rounds fired out of my 10 round shot strings had super heavy bolt lift, flatten primer and heavy extractor mark! at this point I believe that I’m having excessive headspace.
My barrel vice came in today, put my barreled action on the vice, used a channel lock with towels wrapped around the action to tighten it down as much as I can with out marring or damaging my action, shot over 40 rounds of my 40gr charge without a single problem, super easy bolt lift and all primers are as round as it can be. Brass now measures 1.562-1.563 this time after firing, the headspace still a little more than I like, now I’m waiting for my action wrench to come so I can torque it down to 70-90ft lbs and see if I can get another .001-.002 thread crush.
So my theory is that after some amounts of firing, the threads on these actions tends to stretch under pressure, heat and stress, and result in increased headspacing and bolt to face clearances.
Lastly I hope all of you who has problems like me can solve your issues, becuase this is how I got mine fixed.
Have a nice day and will never buy another Curtis action again becuase the quick switch barrel system is not what it advertised to be.
Dang that sucks you had to fix it that way, but I'd probably send it back to Curtis. I'm over 5k rounds on the action, 4 barrels, all hand tight, and haven't had a problem at all.
Yeah, I would be calling Chase about this. That isn’t right at all. Another thing to think about is your barrel was cut to be hand tight (not torqued) so you will probably still have a little more headspace then you want.
As someone who has this action inbound as well as a barrel... set to be hand tight, I will be monitoring head space consistencies.
I would be interested in hearing if Curtis looks into this for you. With Joel breaking away and starting his own action company, things like this need to be resolved.
As someone who has this action inbound as well as a barrel... set to be hand tight, I will be monitoring head space consistencies.
I would be interested in hearing if Curtis looks into this for you. With Joel breaking away and starting his own action company, things like this need to be resolved.
Thank you for you recommendation, as for now seems like the problem has gotten away and I don’t wonna go through the hassle of sending the action and wait. I’m going to torque it down to 70-90ft lb and hopefully that can tighten the headspace another .001-.002 then will do more testing after, if the problem still exist I’m going to call them and troll lol.
Thank you, and I do understand that barrels that cut to be hand tight for the vector has little more headspace, but on mine after few handred rounds it became a little excessive lol, and I’m pretty sure I tighten the set screws over 30inch lbs.
My first barrel was from keystone accuracy, when the problem started I though it was chambering issue, so I bought another barrel from paradigm gunworks and the problem come up again after few hundred rounds, so I highly doubt it’s the smiths, I’m thinking the spec might be a little off on my action receiver during machining.
When the problem existed the rifle still shoot like laser, but I just don’t like my brass to be beaten up or destroyed after 3-4 firings, and I don’t want to bang on my bolt handle to extract a round during a match lol.
Some member have posted on this thread experienced the same problem, have you guys try to call Curtis custom or try to address the issue? I’m willing to hear from your inputs.
Have a nice day!
I have been having an issue with my Curtis Axiom that is not entirely dissimilar to your issues. For the last couple weeks I've been talking with Chase at Curtis Customs and he's been nothing but helpful and interested in resolving the issue. For what it's worth, I have been impressed. My suggestion would be to bring it up with him and see where that leads.
I have not. I’ve been waiting to get back out to the range with some virgin brass that lacks any ejector marks. I went from hand tight to torqued. I had totally forgotten about the different tenon specs between hand tight and torqued. At torqued I was running into pressure issues which makes sense (now anyway).
I went back out with the barrel hand tight and the pressure seems to have come down as extractions with known no issue loads where ejecting without trouble.
I’ll be sure to post my findings with the virgin brass once I finally get a free weekend.
I think it’s great that you wrote up what you did. Other members have been having issues too and issues are always good to catalog.
Another option is to send your action to John @ Keystone. Have him verify the that your action is within spec. If not, you could choose to talk with Curtis about this or have John cut your barrels to your action spec.
Yes, it defeats the feature of what Curtis sold this for, but at least you would have peace of mind.
Yes, it defeats the feature of what Curtis sold this for, but at least you would have peace of mind.
I absolutely agree with you! Paying premium price for these actions with mediocre features that’s what makes me not happy lol.
He is very very reasonable to make these adjustments to barrels as well. Quick turn around as always.
I think i did kind of fix the issue I had, but not 100%
Went back to the range today with my barrel that cut to be hand tight torqued down to 80ft lbs shot some 41gr and 41.5gr charge. Shot ten 41gr h4350 charge at fast rate of fire in less than 1min, Bolt lift and extract like butter on all ten of them, none of them has flatten primer or ejector mark, then immediately load up another 5 rounds and shot them in less than 1min without issues, took a 5min cig break moved on to 41.5gr re16 load(my proven laser load) shot an amazing 1/4 moa group, one has slight flatten primer, and two has slight ejector mark, bolt lift on those two were just slightly heavier, unlike before it was so heavy and has a dreaded click on extraction and the ejector mark were so severe that a chunk of brass on the face of the casehead was scrapped, immediately I loaded 5 with 41g re16 and shot a sub .5 moa group, none of them has flatten primer or ejector marks.
This time my virgin brass measures 1.562 after firing, I think either my head space is still little too much, little too much bolt face to case head clearances or my load is too hot???
I’m going back to the range on Thursday and do more testing with fired formed brass this time, I’m not going to bump the shoulder back at all since the 1.562 brass still chambers without too much resistance. I’ll keep everyone posted, cheers y’all!
Went back to the range today with my barrel that cut to be hand tight torqued down to 80ft lbs shot some 41gr and 41.5gr charge. Shot ten 41gr h4350 charge at fast rate of fire in less than 1min, Bolt lift and extract like butter on all ten of them, none of them has flatten primer or ejector mark, then immediately load up another 5 rounds and shot them in less than 1min without issues, took a 5min cig break moved on to 41.5gr re16 load(my proven laser load) shot an amazing 1/4 moa group, one has slight flatten primer, and two has slight ejector mark, bolt lift on those two were just slightly heavier, unlike before it was so heavy and has a dreaded click on extraction and the ejector mark were so severe that a chunk of brass on the face of the casehead was scrapped, immediately I loaded 5 with 41g re16 and shot a sub .5 moa group, none of them has flatten primer or ejector marks.
This time my virgin brass measures 1.562 after firing, I think either my head space is still little too much, little too much bolt face to case head clearances or my load is too hot???
I’m going back to the range on Thursday and do more testing with fired formed brass this time, I’m not going to bump the shoulder back at all since the 1.562 brass still chambers without too much resistance. I’ll keep everyone posted, cheers y’all!
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@702shooter Your case to datum length seems long. I just cut a fresh barrel for my 6.5 Creedmoor using a PTG SAAMI reamer and Forster Go/No-Go gauges. My fired Hornady brass measures 1.539" (using .400" comparator bushing).
Glad you were able to get some resolution towards this, at least a step in the right direction. I take it you're going to just order barrels now to be torqued? Really defeats what I think is one of the main selling points of this action. Two barrels, from two different known smiths are causing the same issue... something is off.
I would say if Thursdays range session proves to be a success, hit up Curtis and ask what can be done.
I would say if Thursdays range session proves to be a success, hit up Curtis and ask what can be done.
Damn, didn't see this. Good eye.
My fired 6.5 hornady brass comes out at 1.538" (also using the .400" bushing)
If we go with the .350 bushing it should read .025*tan(30°)=.014 and 1.539+.014=1.553 so still less than the number he is getting by 9 thousandths.
I think this rules out the headspace bushing selection as the source of error as his are reading over even the smallest hornady bushing.
@702shooter Id like to hear exactly what tools you are using to get this measurement and Id also be curious to know if you have checked it out with a go gauge. Chamber the go gauge, see if it closes. Then add a layer of tape onto the back until it doesnt close anymore and compare the two measurements to see how far over go you actually are.
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I don't think hand tight has anything to do with 702shooter's problems. If the threads had stretched enough to cause more headspace, the shoulder/action face junction would have showed it, ie. there would have been a .002 gap created at that junction. ISounds to me like a headspace issue from the get go and it's only now showing up.
I was using the .375 bushing for my measurements. I’ll use the .400 bushing to measure my virgin and fired casings tonight and see how my measurements compare to yours.
Will do thank you sir! I’ll go home take some pictures of the tools I’m using and measurements of the casings tonight.
Looks like I have to order a set of go/no-go gauge
I'd think your groups would totally got to crap if the barrel shoulder was not tight against the action face, similar to what a loose can can do. Impacts would likely drop low to a sagging barrel as well. FWIW, I've even ran an Axiom hand tight with no set screws with no issues.
Dont need a set, just a go and some scotch tape is all thats required. Skip the no go and save the extra 30 bucks
So you guys with longer headspace, why not just set sizer for .001 shoulder bump? That would take care of excessive headspace in reloads. Obviously factory ammo is still gonna be a problem.
I've got an axiom I bought used on here with a keystone 6.5creed. I also sent action to smith and he spun up a 243cutright bart barrel for it. He torqued to 85ft/lbs and go/no go gage was perfect. When I set up sizer die, I used a bump gage that Jay made and set it on .0005-.001" bump. I haven't had trouble yet.
From br, if I ever had a rd that chambered hard, I never shot it into the score group. Those hard clambering rds always shot out from the group
I've got an axiom I bought used on here with a keystone 6.5creed. I also sent action to smith and he spun up a 243cutright bart barrel for it. He torqued to 85ft/lbs and go/no go gage was perfect. When I set up sizer die, I used a bump gage that Jay made and set it on .0005-.001" bump. I haven't had trouble yet.
From br, if I ever had a rd that chambered hard, I never shot it into the score group. Those hard clambering rds always shot out from the group
When my fired casings were at 1.565 i always bump it back to no less than 1.563. It didn’t help at all..... few of my 4x fired casings had primer came off the casing after firing..... it scared the shit out of me lol
Good news! Seems like 80% I’ve fix the issue!
Loaded 20 rounds of 41gr and 20 rounds of 41.5gr charge to the range today, shooting at 300-800 yards. Only 5 of 41.5 gr charge has slight heavy bolt lift and ejector mark, but extracted like butter, hammering a 1 moa target at 600-800 yards fairly easy and was spot on with my previous DOPE.
The 1.563 casings that chambers with some resistance stayed at 1.563 after firing, as you can see the picture below. While I was seating the primers on those loads, all primer pockets are as tight as a virgin lol, before after the 1st firing some of them are begining to get loose.
So after all I think the threads or tennon in my action is a little off out of the factory, it creates a longer headspace than it should be, then some how after few hundred rounds either the threads stretched or whatever it is made the headspace excessive. Ideally I would like my fired casings to measure no more than 1.560 with my measurement tool since two of other rifle with sammi chamber measures no more than 1.560 with hot loads. Oh well but I’ll take it as long as I don’t have to bang and stump on the bolt handle to extract a round or destroy my brass after 4th firing.
I know it defeated the quick switch barrel feature, I’ll eventually give Curtis custom a call and see if they can do anything about it, also a couple of member who posted has mentioned that better to have your gun smith to check your vector action to verify if the threads or tenons are in spec is recommended, but I know it be inconvenient for someone because they expect to purchase a prefit barrel have it tight on with bare hands and shoot, plus some local smiths will charge an arm or leg for their services.
Lastly I appreciate everyone who’s been following the thread and try to help as much as they can. Cheers!
Loaded 20 rounds of 41gr and 20 rounds of 41.5gr charge to the range today, shooting at 300-800 yards. Only 5 of 41.5 gr charge has slight heavy bolt lift and ejector mark, but extracted like butter, hammering a 1 moa target at 600-800 yards fairly easy and was spot on with my previous DOPE.
The 1.563 casings that chambers with some resistance stayed at 1.563 after firing, as you can see the picture below. While I was seating the primers on those loads, all primer pockets are as tight as a virgin lol, before after the 1st firing some of them are begining to get loose.
So after all I think the threads or tennon in my action is a little off out of the factory, it creates a longer headspace than it should be, then some how after few hundred rounds either the threads stretched or whatever it is made the headspace excessive. Ideally I would like my fired casings to measure no more than 1.560 with my measurement tool since two of other rifle with sammi chamber measures no more than 1.560 with hot loads. Oh well but I’ll take it as long as I don’t have to bang and stump on the bolt handle to extract a round or destroy my brass after 4th firing.
I know it defeated the quick switch barrel feature, I’ll eventually give Curtis custom a call and see if they can do anything about it, also a couple of member who posted has mentioned that better to have your gun smith to check your vector action to verify if the threads or tenons are in spec is recommended, but I know it be inconvenient for someone because they expect to purchase a prefit barrel have it tight on with bare hands and shoot, plus some local smiths will charge an arm or leg for their services.
Lastly I appreciate everyone who’s been following the thread and try to help as much as they can. Cheers!
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I’m no expert at this, but my theory is that it had too much bolt face to case head clearances, so ones the round fired the casing slammed backwards against the bolt face, also at the same time pressures blows back out from the primer side, it’s pretty much a fails pressure sign.
If you read my previous post, I was already suspecting that my action spec is off and already had longer head space than it should. Regarding the under headspaced factory load casings, I believe there is a max tolerance allowance for that, but I don’t know the numbers, mine were just excessive I believe.
Aw sorry for your buddy that has the same issue. What has he done trying to fix the issue? What was his headspace like? Measurements of casings after fired?
Well after I heard from you I take my word back on 80% issue fixed, more like 60% now lol, imma keep testing with my 2nd fired casings and see how they go.
Wow didn’t know so many people have issues with Curtis actions..... can’t believe they charge that much for an action that they can’t even keep a good quality control.
Haha I see. Well yea, I will keep everyone posted.
I encourage everyone that is going through the similar issues don’t be afraid to share your thoughts and fixes.
Not sure if you checked this, but I at least wanted to see the difference.
Same hornady case, deprimed. First is the D400, second is the C375 you are using.
I would think about using the D400, at least when giving numbers to smiths or Curtis, as the D375 would put it out of saami spec for chambering.
Just tossing ideas here... what solvent are you using when cleaning and how often?
Do you buy any chance own a bore scope? There is a really good one on Amazon that I picked up. I’m impressed with the quality of the image given the price.
Teslong Rifle Bore Scope, 0.2inch... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TTQF24F?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
I guess what I’m getting at is... it’s possible that you have a carbon ring causing your pressure issues. The head space you are seeing doesn’t seem that excessive, at least when you are saying primers are falling out.
Again, just throwing out ideas.
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some pictures of measurements with c375 bushing and d400 bushing, fired casing hand tight vs torqued to 80ft lbs.
I clean my barrel every 180-250 rounds after initial break in. For my cleaning procedures, I run 1 wet patch of bore tech then 5-7 dry patch, then 1 semi wet patch of hoppes9 another 5-7 dry patch.
Maybe it’s the carbon ring like you said. I did took off my barrel once to give it a deep clean, I even put a brass brush and nylon brush in the throat give it a good 2-3 min spin with a drill, heavy pressure still comes up after I hand tighten the barrel.
For my other two beater rifle I clean them every 500-800 rounds lol and I only use hoppes9 for them. They never developed a carbon ring heavy enough to cause issues similar to what I’m experiencing with the vector.
Maybe custom barrels require higher maintenance than factory barrels? Like race guns requires extremely high maintenance or they won’t cycle right?
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I would wet a patch using boretech and put into the chamber until you just feel resistance ( hitting the lands ) and let it sit for an hour. Then, take a nylon or brass brush and do the same thing... push until you hit resistance then spin the brush for a bit. Now, run some dry patches and see what comes out.
I only use boretech, now. I ran MPro7 for years and thought my barrels were clean, until one patch of boretech ( waiting an hour ) and it came out black.
Based on your cases, I wouldn’t say you have a headspace issue.
Someone else might be able to offer more.
I only use boretech, now. I ran MPro7 for years and thought my barrels were clean, until one patch of boretech ( waiting an hour ) and it came out black.
Based on your cases, I wouldn’t say you have a headspace issue.
Someone else might be able to offer more.
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I’m still not 100% sure if that .001-.002 headspace would’ve make a difference. Hopefully I have time to do another range session next week with my 2nd fired casings, and I’ll report back with how tight my primer seats and if the issue still going on.
I forgot to mention, I did do what you have said prior drilling with brushes hehe.
I agree with you as his numbers using a C .400 bushing are pretty close to others.
What barrel and caliber you’re going with this action? Let us know how it shoots!
Well guys seems like I’ve fixed the issues! Went to the range couple days ago shot 50 rounds with no problem, only 3-5 rounds had slight heavy bolt lift since I was shooting some fast strings and the barrel was pretty hot. Just seated the primers in my 3x fired casings an hour ago and all primer pockets are tight! Again only showed slight ejector marks on the ones that had slight heavy bolt lift but nothing bothers me.
I have a Proof Research in 6 Creed from Straight Jacket coming to me. Should be here this week. I’ll zero it shortly after and put it to work at a local match in a few weeks.
Bolt lift is a lot heavier than I like on the Vector. My Custom Tikka has a about 1400 rounds on the action and it feels like half the weight in lift. Hopefully this will break in after time.
Yea when I got mine new it’s heavy, it will get lighter for sure.
It definitely breaks in. Just a few thousand dry fires. Mine is stupid smooth and noticeably lighter
Aside from that I’m happy. Surprisingly ARC and Accurate mags feed super smooth, yet AW’s tend to bind the bolt at the rear. Guessing I’ll have to shave off some of the mag catch to allow it to hang a little lower.
