Custom Picatinny Rail- 22LR

[Taylorbok]

I'm going to start this by saying I am 100% confusing the hell out of my self here. (I think the 50 Yard zero is screwing me up)

I am setting up my T1x for a "long range" PRS style competition 75-400 yards. I am going to order a custom scope base to max out the travel of the scope. Currently what is on there is a 30 MOA rail and the scope has 80 MOA of total travel, there is 30 moa left below my zero. That should mean I need a 60 moa base to achieve a zero near the bottom of the travel. But that number makes no sense...?

In the end I have a different scope on order anyways with 110 moa, I was going to order a 50 moa base but now that I have this scope mounted up and see what's happening I can't figure out how many freaking moa I need. HELP

 

[st1650]

Here’s an even better idea. Get your 50moa base and buy the Burris XTR bushing rings where you can set it up to have exactly all the elevation available out of your scope by playing around with the different bushing and the distance between front and rear ring.

 

[b6graham]

this would do better in the rimfire section fyi

see how much elevation you need to hit 400y and go from there.

I have run 60moa total for a Strike Eagle, Razor Gen2, and razor Gen 3 and that's about max. those scope have pretty high total travel too. (i can dial to 435y and hold to 535y with the reticle only having 10mil below zero)

i'd keep the 30moa rail and get a 30moa/9mil mount (or the burris rings)

 

[Taylorbok]

I actually have a set of the Burris signature rings with the inserts sitting on my shelf I was going to play with a bit.
I was hoping to get the base ordered up ASAP here because it will take a couple weeks to be manufactured.
I need about 60 moa to make it to 400 yards but why not have total elevation available, same thing I do with an ELR rig.
100 moa will take me to 550 yards.

 

[Taylorbok]

best math I can do in my head is I need a 60 moa base for an 80moa scope
60/80= .75
.75x100= 75 moa, base needed for 100 moa scope.

I'm gonna try putting these Burris rings in with added 30 moa and see if that gets me to the bottom or not. I'll probably just end up waiting until the scope gets here to make the final decision.

 

[b6graham]

if you have a set of burris sitting then i'd make use of them before getting a custom mount made. they'll get you to 70moa

depending on the scope and how it zeros you might not even get to 100moa travel anyways. that's 4 revs.

strike eagle specs. 31mil travel.
me running 60moa (18mil give or take) i can still zero and have 31 mil below zero (this is ragged edge and i can tell image quality suffers)
running 40moa i have 25 mil below zero

 

[b6graham]

best math I can do in my head is I need a 60 moa base for an 80moa scope
60/80= .75
.75x100= 75 moa, base needed for 100 moa scope.

I'm gonna try putting these Burris rings in with added 30 moa and see if that gets me to the bottom or not. I'll probably just end up waiting until the scope gets here to make the final decision.

if you go past half the total elevation you're VERY likely to have issues zeroing

30-40% of the scopes total elevation in cant is more in line with what will work

the closer you get to end of travel the more issues you could run into with image quality

if your matches are anything like what i run/shoot the average distance is somewhere between 100 and 150y and you're taking very few shots past 300-400y

 

[Taylorbok]

if you go past half the total elevation you're VERY likely to have issues zeroing

30-40% of the scopes total elevation in cant is more in line with what will work

the closer you get to end of travel the more issues you could run into with image quality

if your matches are anything like what i run/shoot the average distance is somewhere between 100 and 150y and you're taking very few shots past 300-400y

I've never had issues running my scopes maxed or almost maxed in either direction. Even if that's the average distance of the match doesn't mean I don't wanna stretch it passed that for my own enjoyment.

 

[b6graham]

I've never had issues running my scopes maxed or almost maxed in either direction. Even if that's the average distance of the match doesn't mean I don't wanna stretch it passed that for my own enjoyment.

what i'm saying is putting 75moa of travel on a 110moa internal travel scope is WAY past a normal zero range.

you can get away with this on true ELR rigs cause once it's zero'd you dont need to shoot it at 100, 300, or even 500y

real math.
75moa of cant
110moa internal travel
you'd need the gun's natural (0moa of cant) zero to be 20+ moa below the middle of the scopes range to zero

 

[Taylorbok]

what i'm saying is putting 75moa of travel on a 110moa internal travel scope is WAY past a normal zero range.

you can get away with this on true ELR rigs cause once it's zero'd you dont need to shoot it at 100, 300, or even 500y

real math.
75moa of cant
110moa internal travel
you'd need the gun's natural (0moa of cant) zero to be 20+ moa below the middle of the scopes range to zero

Ok ya that's what I'm having issues with.
Why do I currently need 60 moa of cant to get to the bottom of a 80 moa scope.
I know it should be 40

 

[b6graham]

Ok ya that's what I'm having issues with.
Why do I currently need 60 moa of cant to get to the bottom of a 80 moa scope.
I know it should be 40

22 zeros do goofy things compared to centerfire in regards to zero. but a 25/50y zero would be like running a 60/175y zero on a centerfire. 37ish yards zero on a 22 is more in line with a 100y on a centerfire (we're talking like .2mil or .75moa though)

hence why i can run 60moa of cant on a razor gen 2 or strike eagle. i'm past what half should be but only by a little bit

 

[Taylorbok]

22 zeros do goofy things compared to centerfire in regards to zero. but a 25/50y zero would be like running a 60/175y zero on a centerfire. 37ish yards zero on a 22 is more in line with a 100y on a centerfire (we're talking like .2mil or .75moa though)

hence why i can run 60moa of cant on a razor gen 2 or strike eagle. i'm past what half should be but only by a little bit

I'll play with these Burris rings before I do anything. I'm gonna add the next 30 moa and see where that takes me.

I have actually heard about 37/36 yards before but everyone seems to zero at 50 so that's what I was going to do. Do you Zero at 50?

 

[b6graham]

I'll play with these Burris rings before I do anything. I'm gonna add the next 30 moa and see where that takes me.

I have actually heard about 37/36 yards before but everyone seems to zero at 50 so that's what I was going to do. Do you Zero at 50?

yeah either 25 or 50 depending what's available at the range/match

not many places have a 36/37y place to put targets regularly

 

[Taylorbok]

yeah either 25 or 50 depending what's available at the range/match

not many places have a 36/37y place to put targets regularly

I can easily zero at any distance I want but I think I'll stick with the 50 yard zero and go from there.

 

[b6graham]

I can easily zero at any distance I want but I think I'll stick with the 50 yard zero and go from there.

i've never shot a match where the .2mil down mattered for a target in the 30-45y range. that's a bullet width or less

 

[Taylorbok]

i've never shot a match where the .2mil down mattered for a target in the 30-45y range. that's a bullet width or less

For this match closest target is supposed to be 75 yards. I actually considered zeroing at 100 yards and just hold bottom edge for anything inside of 100.

 

[FimRire RongLifle]

running 30 MOA on an MK5 I got enough elev for a 592 yard shot using reticle 34-35MRAD. I run a 50 moa for a whle but 50 yard zero is a challenge with other scopes. Currently i am set up with a viper pst and a 30 on my 22 and 75-400 is all within grasp you only need 22-23 MRAD for 400.
I think 35-40moa is a magic spot for scope tolerance and maintaining a shot zero if desired. witha 50moa I started needing hold unders. Someday I will just put an ivey mount on lol

 

[Taylorbok]

you only need 22-23 MRAD for 400.
I think 35-40moa is a magic spot for scope tolerance and maintaining a shot zero if desired. witha 50moa I started needing hold unders.

I know what I need for 400, but I want to be able to stretch it as far as possible while maintaining the 50 yard zero.
I put the Burris rings on with an added 30 moa of cant and was able to maintain a 50 yard zero with a couple moa bellow to spare. I went ahead and ordered a 60 moa rail. I will have over 100 moa of dial plus 40 moa of hold should get me on target to over 650.

 

[FimRire RongLifle]

awesome. I agree 30 MOA runs out quick for anything over 400 on many scopes.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

this would do better in the rimfire section fyi

see how much elevation you need to hit 400y and go from there.

I have run 60moa total for a Strike Eagle, Razor Gen2, and razor Gen 3 and that's about max. those scope have pretty high total travel too. (i can dial to 435y and hold to 535y with the reticle only having 10mil below zero)

i'd keep the 30moa rail and get a 30moa/9mil mount (or the burris rings)

Your Gen III Razor should have more then 10 mils of holdover

 

[st1650]

I just set up my Midas 6-24 on my RimX (30 moa on the rail) with Burris bushing rings and I now I get the full 25 mils (27mils actually available with the zero stop removed) which should allow me to make it to 450yards in winter at 0DA and I set get an extra mil below zero

 

[b6graham]

Your Gen III Razor should have more then 10 mils of holdover

Vortex EBR reticles are 10mil in the reticle

wish it extended to 40+ like NF but minor complaints

 

[Taylorbok]

I just set up my Midas 6-24 on my RimX (30 moa on the rail) with Burris bushing rings and I now I get the full 25 mils (27mils actually available with the zero stop removed) which should allow me to make it to 450yards in winter at 0DA and I set get an extra mil below zero

What bushings did you use?

Vortex EBR reticles are 10mil in the reticle

wish it extended to 40+ like NF but minor complaints

I'm not super familiar with either scope but 10 Mil sounds correct, but there is no way NF has 40 Mil of hold. Maybe 40 MOA

 

[6.5SH]

What bushings did you use?

I'm not super familiar with either scope but 10 Mil sounds correct, but there is no way NF has 40 Mil of hold. Maybe 40 MOA

MIL-XT is like an H59 as you lower the zoom the reticle keeps going. Most peoples eyes aren't good enough to clearly utilize it at the lowest magnification.

 

[st1650]

What bushings did you use?

I'm not super familiar with either scope but 10 Mil sounds correct, but there is no way NF has 40 Mil of hold. Maybe 40 MOA

20moa rear ring
5 moa front for a total of 25 moa
4.7in center to center between the rings

Factory RimX Rail I’m almost certain it was 30 moa

Athlon specs say 25 mils total elevation but with the zero stop removed I get a full 27 so I’ll be fine tuning the ring distance to make sure that I have at least 1 mil below zero

 

[b6graham]

What bushings did you use?

I'm not super familiar with either scope but 10 Mil sounds correct, but there is no way NF has 40 Mil of hold. Maybe 40 MOA

depending on the scope they're at least 25 depending on magnification and IIRC the nx8 4-32 gets above 40

but a simple google search would have shown you they go 25+ mil

 

[Taylorbok]

MIL-XT is like an H59 as you lower the zoom the reticle keeps going. Most peoples eyes aren't good enough to clearly utilize it at the lowest magnification.

That's wild. I mean if you know its there you can use it. might not be able to read the numbers but if you can count. Biggest I can see is 24 mil but that is still impressive. They should put some better info about that on their website

 

[b6graham]

That's wild. I mean if you know its there you can use it. might not be able to read the numbers but if you can count. Biggest I can see is 24 mil but that is still impressive. They should put some better info about that on their website

very useful for rimfire distances 600+ if you dont have a charlie tarac

 

[Taylorbok]

very useful for rimfire distances 600+ if you dont have a charlie tarac

Tarac is on the list. Problem is seeing misses at that range especially where I shoot there is a very short time where the ground is dry enough and the grass is short enough to see

 

[Snuby642]

best math I can do in my head is I need a 60 moa base for an 80moa scope

Going past 1/2 your travel is counter productive.

I have moa and mil scopes.
400 yards would be considered elr for 22 rimfire.

Large amounts of dial up is easier with the mils for me.

If you do it the way you are thinking I'll bet the first time a md shoves a 25 - 50 yd target in front of you it will suck.

If I were a md for 22 lr I would do it. My wife is a md for 22lr but not as heartless as I am.

IMHO
Edit: Evidently I'm wrong.

 

[Taylorbok]

Going past 1/2 your travel is counter productive. WHY? Why not max out your scope, this is ELR

I have moa and mil scopes.
400 yards would be considered elr for 22 rimfire. That is why I posted in ELR

Large amounts of dial up is easier with the mils for me. You are likely using a program so it should make no difference.

If you do it the way you are thinking I'll bet the first time a md shoves a 25 - 50 yd target in front of you it will suck. I still have a 50 yard zero... unless you stick a half inch or smaller target at 25 yards it's not going to be an issue.

If I were a md for 22 lr I would do it. My wife is a md for 22lr but not as heartless as I am.

IMHO

 

[b6graham]

a 1/4" target at 25-50y is pretty easy. we normally have our KYLs down to 1/4" at 65-80y and it's not uncommon to get cleaned

 

[Conaso]

I have a CZ453, no rail, no cant, and a Vortex PST-G2 5-25×50 FFP, EBR-7C MRAD. It's zeroed for 50yards. The turret allows 30 mil travel without distortion. With the ranging reticle I can go go out over 600 yards - which I will never do.

 

[b6graham]

I have a CZ453, no rail, no cant, and a Vortex PST-G2 5-25×50 FFP, EBR-7C MRAD. It's zeroed for 50yards. The turret allows 30 mil travel without distortion. With the ranging reticle I can go go out over 600 yards - which I will never do.

you must be shooting on everest with that data. and somehow an extra 10mil travel in your unicorn PST Gen 2

your numbers dont add up

 

[st1650]

you must be shooting on everest with that data. and somehow an extra 10mil travel in your unicorn PST Gen 2

your numbers dont add up

Yeah that doesn’t add up.

 

[st1650]

a 1/4" target at 25-50y is pretty easy. we normally have our KYLs down to 1/4" at 65-80y and it's not uncommon to get cleaned

Another good one is to get a 2x4 and drill hole and shoot those cheap lollipops. You can put the flat one sideways for extra points.

 

[Taylorbok]

a 1/4" target at 25-50y is pretty easy. we normally have our KYLs down to 1/4" at 65-80y and it's not uncommon to get cleaned

100% agree. The only reason it gets harder at 25 is because zero at 50 and NEED to hold, can't dial elevation. The other thing about a KYL is you get to work down and verify your shots, it's not 2 and done.

 

[b6graham]

100% agree. The only reason it gets harder at 25 is because zero at 50 and NEED to hold, can't dial elevation. The other thing about a KYL is you get to work down and verify your shots, it's not 2 and done.

25y with a 50yzero is ~.1 mil. less than half a bullet width

even around 37y which is the high point with a 25 or 50y zero you're talking .2-.3mil which is barely more than a bullet width

i shot a stage last week on standard rimfire targets. like 1" to 3" from 60-100y. hanging from JC steel stands. i had 1.5 dialed instead of being on zero. only missed a shot or two cause of wind gusts cause those targets are so tall

 

[Taylorbok]

25y with a 50yzero is ~.1 mil. less than half a bullet width

even around 37y which is the high point with a 25 or 50y zero you're talking .2-.3mil which is barely more than a bullet width

I've never really goofed with shooting inside my zero but that makes sense. I was thinking more center fire style where POI is gonna be 2" low at 25 yards. I'm gonna have to play around a bit more with this rimfire stuff.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Vortex EBR reticles are 10mil in the reticle

wish it extended to 40+ like NF but minor complaints

The 6-36x56 Razor Gen III has close to 35 mils of holdover in the EBR 7D reticle, if you own one look at it.

At 20 mils of hold over the vertical line becomes bolder when using less mag as well to see easier.

oneshot

 

[6.5SH]

The 6-36x56 Razor Gen III has close to 35 mils of holdover in the EBR 7D reticle, if you own one look at it.

At 20 mils of hold over the vertical line becomes bolder when using less mag as well to see easier.

oneshot

Their manual shows 36 MOA, so would be 12 MIL on the other model.

VTX_M-00312-0_RZR_HD-G3_EBR-7D_MOA_RS_P_RM_WEB.pdf

vortexoptics.widen.net

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Their manual shows 36 MOA, so would be 12 MIL on the other model.

VTX_M-00312-0_RZR_HD-G3_EBR-7D_MOA_RS_P_RM_WEB.pdf

vortexoptics.widen.net

Here again if you had one you would know, if they would show a picture with the power backed off a little and more reticle showing you would see. No need to try to counter or prove me wrong I own one and am only trying to help and state some new benefits within the scope.


cheers

oneshot

 

[6.5SH]

Just odd that they wouldn't have it in their own docs, it IS a feature to crow about.

 

[Snuby642]

@Taylorbok

First of all thanks for quoting me and not putting in original content so it could be linked back.

"WHY? Why not max out your scope, this is ELR."

Only half your travel is positive the other half is below your zero.

you would be using 20 moa to get to the bottom of the rail.

counter productive.

 

[Conaso]

Yeah that doesn’t add up.

Yes, you are correct, my numbers are totally screwed up. Senior moment. I was thinking MOA with a Mrad scope. It's 10 mil in either direction with this scope, which allows someone with the ranging reticle to get out to ~400 yards without canting the scope. I apologize for any confusion.

Since I shoot primarily 25 - 100 yards, I can keep near the center of the lense area for best focus and if necessary step out to ~400yards; and keep the scope in a lower profile (no cheek rest). For those shooting ELR, the canted picatinny rail permits another 6mil or 9mil additional turret travel for more precise adjustment for distance. Albeit, higher scope profile but keeping more of the lense center at the primary range being shot.

Since the OP was concerned with ELR, I should have not commented.

 

[Taylorbok]

@Snuby642
I'm still confused how you think it's counter productive to be able to utilize all the internal adjustment of the scope?

 

[Snuby642]

Utilize all, yes.
There may be a little on the " edge" that is marginally usable.

Let's use a scope with 80 moa of travel for an example.

40 up 40 down and you don't wish to waste the 40 down so you get a 40 moa base or riser. Perfect.

But as I understand it you are planning on going past the 40 moa. Let's say 60 moa.

My thought is you would now be using 20 moa of upward travel just to get to a 100yd zero. IE wasting 20 moa .

Maybe I'm wrong, I have never tested more than 20 moa base / rail riser.

One of us is wrong.

I figure by default I have a 50 / 50 chance. Lol

 

[Taylorbok]

40 up 40 down and you don't wish to waste the 40 down so you get a 40 moa base or riser. Perfect.

But as I understand it you are planning on going past the 40 moa. Let's say 60 moa.

That's what this entire post was about, That a rail with half my adjustment was still leaving useable travel on the table.

 

[Snuby642]

No, in my opinion you only have half the travel to gain back.
Not anymore than that.

You allready have the other half.

 

[b6graham]

No, in my opinion you only have half the travel to gain back.
Not anymore than that.

You allready have the other half.

not with a 22 for whatever reason

i have run 60moa (17.4mil) on a razor gen 2 (33mil total) and strike eagle 5-25 (31mil total)