Custom rifle business

[Outerspace]

I've been a business owner most of my life now, am sort of semi-retired and am wondering about the custom rifle business. I imagine I would have the funds to purchase what equipment I don't have so that's not a concern.

I keep hearing about insane wait times and am wondering if there is some warm water to jump into. Would be interested in learning what kind of business this is, I don't "need the money" but don't want to make nothing off it. It would be an interesting career move personally.

 

[swampbuck]

Like Dave Ramsey says, 3 deffinates about starting a business.

It will take twice as long as you think
It will cost twice as much as you think
You are not the exception

I've had a good friend who was in it for his entire career 60 years plus or minus. I don't think that he ever made more than a modest living.

Things to remember

No group benefits
Cost of start up
Very competitive with very picky customers
Work slowed down by calls, emails, visitors
Parts are always slow comming, you are constantly apologizing for things out of your control (this is why Nighthawk Customstopped their rifle line. They have much better established suppliers for 1911 parts).
Takes time to establish a reputation.


On the other hand,
Make your own hours
Be your own boss
Make cool stuff
Live your passion. It works a lot better if you are retired with time on your hands and arnt needing to make a living at it or in need of a family health vision and dental plan

 

[Delta4-3]

It is much less of a headache and generally a bit more profitable to make accessories than custom rifles. i.e. Chasis systems. This reduces the time waiting on parts suppliers as well, as you can make it all in house. Just my experience.

 

[Rustybroadhead]

I have been in competitive archery for many years and when I was in college a local shop offered me a job. I stay with them for just over a year and swore that I would never make my hobby and my job one in the same again... It took all of the fun out of it for me.

That was almost 20 years ago and to this day, I don't even like to work on my gear anymore

FWIW

 

[Outerspace]

I appreciate the input, I anticipate the demand for firearms will be high for years and I think there is some opportunity. With my contacts barrel manufacture would probably be within reach as opposed to custom rifle manufacture. It occurs to me that if people can't get barrels or actions etc that may be more the areas than being another builder.

Appreciate any industry insight.

 

[Geno C.]

If you're going to make barrels I would suggest getting them into the hands of the best shooters that will shoot them. This is a very finicky business. If the right guys are using your gear then the masses tend to follow.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

It is like anything else - there is always room for another good vendor. That said, the custom rifle business iwould not be an easy road. The business is largely about reputation and relationships. Both of these things = time and money to establish. Put another way, most guys don't have several custom rifles, and most guys have a rifle to shoot while their custom is in the queue. The resale value of a custom rig hinges on the reputation of the builder.

So a basic business plan question would be what are you as a start up going to offer as incentive to a prospective buyer of a custom rig? Price? Probably going have to be a discount in excess of 20% off of similar builds from established but not big name builders. Time? It is expected that will you turn them out faster - so that is not only a given, it is pitfall right up front. Reputation? Are you going to hire a known smith away from another shop? Does your name carry some level of cache? Are you going to sponsor some good shooters to travel to most major matches? Provide goodies at the prize table? Or just use sites like these to drive traffic to yet another web site / youtube vid?

 

[BigJimFish]

I've been a business owner most of my life now, am sort of semi-retired and am wondering about the custom rifle business. I imagine I would have the funds to purchase what equipment I don't have so that's not a concern.

I keep hearing about insane wait times and am wondering if there is some warm water to jump into. Would be interested in learning what kind of business this is, I don't "need the money" but don't want to make nothing off it. It would be an interesting career move personally.

Have you worked for a custom rifle maker or at least a machine shop in the past? It has been my observation that those with years of this sort of apprenticeship experience have a much greater chance of success in any endeavor. Witness Cooper firearms, started by a group from Kimber of Oregon. The industry is littered with examples like this as I expect just about every industry is. Might be worth working for someone for a few years to get the ropes.

 

[Nishgriff]

I have been in competitive archery for many years and when I was in college a local shop offered me a job. I stay with them for just over a year and swore that I would never make my hobby and my job one in the same again... It took all of the fun out of it for me.

That was almost 20 years ago and to this day, I don't even like to work on my gear anymore

FWIW

I have had this same experience, I have owned a few businesses in my day. I really don't like to combine hobby and work. But once I had a business that provided me with a living without working I was free to move into pursuing my passion 'full time' (photography). But the key is that while I make money from it, I don't NEED to, so I don't feel the pressure to 'make it happen' at any given time. I get to do it at my pace, on my own schedule, and choose my clients. Honestly, I shoot what I want to shoot, and it just so happens that people want to buy it. If they didn't buy it, I would still shoot it. Maybe that's a way for you to look at this 'new business'. Build the rifles YOU want to build, and see if anyone wants to buy them...

 

[RobertB]

DO IT!!!!!.

If your good, you will have no problem finding work.

I'll test whatever you got BTW!

Good Luck!!

 

[long range newbie]

thats very good advice since most people have similar tastes in rifles, I want to become a gunsmith but you guys are making me not want to due to taking the fun out of it but I think I'd build rifles but probably parts too like lets say chassis for example. I enjoy designing things, and seeing the end product, and I just like seeing it how it began to final product.

 

[long range newbie]

Yeah.. I think we'll all like to test any custom rifles.

 

[turbo54]

I appreciate the input, I anticipate the demand for firearms will be high for years and I think there is some opportunity. With my contacts barrel manufacture would probably be within reach as opposed to custom rifle manufacture. It occurs to me that if people can't get barrels or actions etc that may be more the areas than being another builder.

Appreciate any industry insight.

Call Hawk Hill Customs and talk to Shawn, the owner. He is a new comer to barrel making and is a pleasure to chat with. Unassuming, humble, knowledgeable and not secretive.

Making barrels is tough, the equipment very specialized, and the customers fickle and picky.

 

[Pleistarchus]

If you do go into business I would like to be the first to purchase one of your rifles. Just a few very minor demands:

1. I want it at COST price....you can add $100 for your work
2. I want it done TODAY.....since I am your first and best customer
3. Remember, if there's any kind of knick, mark, color difference, I will send it back at your cost and want it fixed and shipped back Next Day UPS....the same day
4. If you claim it's a sub MOA rifle I want 1/2 inch MOA or nothing.......even though I suffer from seizures, diabetes and my eyesight really sucks.
5. Last but not least, I will call you, email you, text you, fax you, skype you and write you letters about 10 times a day.........each.

Good luck, Your first customer.




To Add: I am not trying to be discouraging. As a business owner myself since 2003(Not in Gunsmithing). My business was growing 150% a year fro 3 years straight and looked promising, until 2006 with the beginning of the economic decline. Ever since then I've seen consumers become worse than my stated demands. I go through it on a daily basis. Take it for what it is......."Expect the worst and Hope for the best". On this Forum I see everyone as a collective of people, most, unknown to each other that rely on each other for support and if I came out sounding like a p****k, those were not my intentions. If you love what you do, it is not work. If you're good at it then you'll make money loving what you do. Stay the course, and prepare for the worst. Chance favors the prepared mind.

 

[peaceatwar]

I don't understand why everyone is being so discouraging here. This guy could be the next George... Chances aren't high and odds are against him but it could happen. If you have no expierence with machine work, I don't think its for you. With that said if you poach a couple of people from the top smiths out there with promises of partial stakes in the company. You will get some good workers and make a top notch product.

 

[cramey74]

Give me the money you intend to invest, I will then kick you in the nuts and give you half of it back. This is a ridiculous proposal considering you have no machining/gunsmith background.

 

[Twisted300Win MAG]

Give me the money you intend to invest, I will then kick you in the nuts and give you half of it back. This is a ridiculous proposal considering you have no machining/gunsmith background.

It's narrow minded thinking like this that really piss me off. If a person has the want to do something and the wherewithal to see it through then there is a good chance they can achieve their goals. I was born legally blind and color blind. Growing up all I wanted to do was fallow in my old mans footsteps and repair and paint cars. Several people kept telling me that it would never happen and to abandon that train of thought. That pissed me off. I struggled when I started and had to learn how to do things differently then other people. But I stuck with it and have been doing it professionally for ten years now. I work at a high end dealership fixing $100k cars. I've restored cars that have taken many awards including best paint at Detroit autorama. The same statements were made when I wanted to get into long range shooting. While I'm not winning any matches, I can manage a few x"s at 1108 yards. People need to quit being so negative. If people want to do something and can stick with it. Then best of luck to you. You don't always have to fallow conventional thinking or practices to accomplish what you want either.
That is all
Donald

 

[Toast]

There's always 100 people to say you can't do it for every one that says you can. I'm here to say, you CAN do it. You're right. Wait times for quality custom built rifles that can knock ticks off a dog's ass at 100 yards are too long, and understandably so. I encourage you to do it. Once you got it down, people will come to you. I'd love to see another manufacturer of a Model 700 clone with a built in recoil lug and integral rail with extra threads for a barrel. Keep us posted if you decide to do it. PM me once you're up and running! Good luck brother.

 

[Dogtown]

If you have the gumption, putting together a shop and hiring the right people to build out its capabilities is a possibility, but that takes a LOT of seed money. Learning how to do the work yourself, honing your skills, then starting your own shop takes a LOT of time. With a solid background in business and a love of all things shooting, why not start a supply shop selling parts and components instead?

 

[pstadlerco]

If you like it, do it. If other people like it, make'em pay you for it. Make a custom for your self. Then make some for friends at cost. If they are good people will be interested and the word will get out. I wish you all the best. enjoy what you do. I agree w cramey though dont expect more than half your investment back and expect to get kicked in the nuts.

 

[Night Eagle]

anybody can start a business...the question is can u be a profitable one...there's many factors involved. I suggest if u want to do it and not care about profit, then make it happen money isn't e erything. But if ur looking for a profitable business... If your market research gives you the thumbs up and your business plan works on paper, and you can lose money for a few years I say go for it...I'd love to have my own custom smiths who work for me anyway build me custom stuff. I'd have the best collection around lol

 

[my human host]

If you plan on doing the work yourself, it's going to take atleast a few years before you're ready to open the doors.

It takes time to build the skills and a personal philisophy on what a custom rifle should and should not be.

 

[Chemguy]

I like the barrel idea to begin with and then you can work on your smithing skills on the side eventually moving into full builds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[damoncali]

There have been long waits for as long as I have been doing this - 20 years. If anything, it's gotten worse. Especially Stocks and Barrels. This makes me wonder why they don't raise prices, increase production, or why we don't see lots of new entrants (this last part is only partly true - there are new companies, but as soon as they get going, they're swamped too.)

In other words, if you address the areas of perpetual shortage, there is a business there. We need another couple good stock companies and could use a few more barrel manufacturers.

 

[MarcS]

Many have already pointed out much of the frustration and difficulties involved but there is also great reward. You said you don't need to do it as a sole source of income so it sounds like you really wouldn't have much to lose other than initial investment in machines. If you aren't in a hurry and you find a nice used lathe you won't be risking much there.

I'd recommend you try it but as others have pointed out you should expect to do a fair amount of free work in the beginning. I did lots of free labor on builds for friends and competitive shooters I knew in the beginning. In those days I was also competing a lot and usually did ok so that also got me some attention. Unlike you I am in it for a full time career and only source of income so it has become a consuming drive in my life. I rarely get to shoot now and I just never have enough time to return every phone call and email I get. It requires many more hours than I ever dreamed, cost much more than I expected in the beginning, and my margins on each piece are far less than I expected. I make up for that by working longer and longer hours. Each time I hit what I think is a threshold and can't work anymore, I figure out a way to make adjustments and work more. For the most part if I'm not in my shop, I'm home sleeping or out doing something work related. Not only did I underestimate regular shop expenses, there are surprises I didn't expect such as registration with ITAR and of course the wonderful 11% federal excise tax that I have to pay based on the sale price of every rifle I deliver and they are usually $3,200 to $4,700. That part is a real treat. I can't pass that on to the consumer like sales tax it comes directly out of my margin. I don't mean to ramble but you get the point.

There are a lot of guys out there in garages across the country doing outstanding work for friends and local shooters for side money. I don't think it's difficult to do it on that level. Of course all of this is dependent on you actually being able to perform good quality work. Experienced guys helped me when I was getting started and if you choose to do it I'd help you with advice and answers if you'd like.

Marc

 

[Twisted300Win MAG]

Many have already pointed out much of the frustration and difficulties involved but there is also great reward. You said you don't need to do it as a sole source of income so it sounds like you really wouldn't have much to lose other than initial investment in machines. If you aren't in a hurry and you find a nice used lathe you won't be risking much there.

I'd recommend you try it but as others have pointed out you should expect to do a fair amount of free work in the beginning. I did lots of free labor on builds for friends and competitive shooters I knew in the beginning. In those days I was also competing a lot and usually did ok so that also got me some attention. Unlike you I am in it for a full time career and only source of income so it has become a consuming drive in my life. I rarely get to shoot now and I just never have enough time to return every phone call and email I get. It requires many more hours than I ever dreamed, cost much more than I expected in the beginning, and my margins on each piece are far less than I expected. I make up for that by working longer and longer hours. Each time I hit what I think is a threshold and can't work anymore, I figure out a way to make adjustments and work more. For the most part if I'm not in my shop, I'm home sleeping or out doing something work related. Not only did I underestimate regular shop expenses, there are surprises I didn't expect such as registration with ITAR and of course the wonderful 11% federal excise tax that I have to pay based on the sale price of every rifle I deliver and they are usually $3,200 to $4,700. That part is a real treat. I can't pass that on to the consumer like sales tax it comes directly out of my margin. I don't mean to ramble but you get the point.

There are a lot of guys out there in garages across the country doing outstanding work for friends and local shooters for side money. I don't think it's difficult to do it on that level. Of course all of this is dependent on you actually being able to perform good quality work. Experienced guys helped me when I was getting started and if you choose to do it I'd help you with advice and answers if you'd like.

Marc

^^^thats a stand up guy right there^^^

 

[Shoottothrill]

I say go for it. Start small and build yourself a nice shop and get to work. Build yourself what you feel is a high quality custom rifle and shoot it with some friends or at a match. If it shoots and people like it they will offer to buy it off you, and so on and so on. Pretty soon you will have a nice little custom shop.

If I had the money I'd be in the damn ammo business right now. Stuff's like gold anymore. Problem is finding components.

Hopefully the industry will normalize soon with the whole supply and demand thing. I know that there are rifle builders right now that can't get barrels, actions, triggers and other things they need to run their shops and make their promised delivery dates.

Best of luck to you.