Gunsmithing Custom rifle project

[Masczek]

Hey all, I'm going into the process of building a fully custom precision rifle. Here's what I'm going at...

30-06 springfield and 50bmg or 375 cheytac.

Haven't quite decided on the actions or barrels but that's not what I'm posting about. The big thing I'm going to work on is the stock/chassis.

I'm wanting to design and build it from scratch. I'm not sure how exactly it's going to look, but I want to design it as a bullpup chassis. It will also have a fully integrated adjustable buttsock and cheek piece. The bigbore rifle will be a single shot so there is no need for a magazine, however, the 30-06 I'd like to be a repeater. I also want to keep the weight as low as possible. Another big question would be about the trigger, since this is a bullpup design I'm not to sure where to even start on that, any pointers please let me know.

The 30-06 will be the one I'll be building first. My questions is when I'm designing this what precautions do I take into consideration? I know there is more into just bolting a stock on an action such as bedding, construction of the stock to constantly withstand the shock of the recoil, weight/balance and I'm sure there is more (the reason behind this post). I was originally planning to have a aluminum skeleton with a synthetic material around most of the chassis. What kind of synthetic materials should I consider if I go this route? It's also possible I may do a 100% aluminum chassis, so what grade of aluminum would be best?

I know I'm a first time poster but I've been around snipers hide for over a year now and I've usually found the answer I'm looking for by using the search feature until now. This is going to be a very delicate project for me and will take many months of work and research on how I'm going to design this thing. I'm not planing on personally building the stock/chassis since I lack the tools, so if anyone knows of someone (or company) who is capable of doing this let me know.

I'm looking forward to some answers, thanks!

 

[the gman]

Re: Custom rifle project

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Masczek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey all, I'm going into the process of building a fully custom precision rifle. Here's what I'm going at...

30-06 springfield and 50bmg or 375 cheytac.

Haven't quite decided on the actions or barrels but that's not what I'm posting about. The big thing I'm going to work on is the stock/chassis.

I'm wanting to design and build it from scratch. I'm not sure how exactly it's going to look, but I want to design it as a bullpup chassis. It will also have a fully integrated adjustable buttsock and cheek piece. The bigbore rifle will be a single shot so there is no need for a magazine, however, the 30-06 I'd like to be a repeater. I also want to keep the weight as low as possible. Another big question would be about the trigger, since this is a bullpup design I'm not to sure where to even start on that, any pointers please let me know.

The 30-06 will be the one I'll be building first. My questions is when I'm designing this what precautions do I take into consideration? I know there is more into just bolting a stock on an action such as bedding, construction of the stock to constantly withstand the shock of the recoil, weight/balance and I'm sure there is more (the reason behind this post). I was originally planning to have a aluminum skeleton with a synthetic material around most of the chassis. What kind of synthetic materials should I consider if I go this route? It's also possible I may do a 100% aluminum chassis, so what grade of aluminum would be best?

I know I'm a first time poster but I've been around snipers hide for over a year now and I've usually found the answer I'm looking for by using the search feature until now. This is going to be a very delicate project for me and will take many months of work and research on how I'm going to design this thing. I'm not planing on personally building the stock/chassis since I lack the tools, so if anyone knows of someone (or company) who is capable of doing this let me know.

I'm looking forward to some answers, thanks! </div></div>

What is your background? I mean, it's great to have ideas & plans, been there many times myself but if you are trying to build rifles, especially ones with big ambitions & some not so small technical challenges to overcome, it helps to have a background in a relevant field. If you have a CAD background or engineering or even anything that involves using your hands like carpentry, that is better than nothing.

How much of a budget do you have? That is going to determine right here, right now if you are dreaming or going somewhere with this. Not trying to be harsh but I have experience in dealing with some folks who want to build a champagne rifle on a Keystone light budget. This is going to get expensive very quickly, especially if you want someone else to do the work. A custom stock such as you describe can easily go $1K to $2K just off the top of my head.

Say you used a Rem 700 action for your .30/06: buying, truing, installing a non match barrel & modifying it to use a bull pup trigger mech, including making the trigger mech is easily over a grand for a 'smith. Include a top notch barrel & you just climbed another $300 or $400.

Seriously, unless you have some real skills, knowledge &/or ability or you invented Facebook, I think you are pissing in the wind mate. Again, sorry to be blunt & I would love for you to prove me wrong but it's better to bin the idea now than get laughed at by numerous 'smiths for wasting their time. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Custom rifle project

While I concur, I'm more inclined to offer constructive advice.

Some issues you'll need to address will be scope mounting and eye relief, as well as bolt removal access.

Before I'd get worked up on trigger relocation, I'd consider going only halfway with the bullpup option, and looking into whether your shooting position can be adapted to handle a shorter LOP. By this I mean, an LOP reduction of around 6" can permit an overall shortening of 6", or alternatively, a barrel length addition of 6" with no overall length gain.

I believe the position could accomodate the shorter LOP as long as a proper head support and eye relief can be maintained. It just means that we need to adapt the position to move the trigger/bolt operating hand closer to the shoulder. Unorthodox, yes; but I think it's still relatively practical.

I foresee a cantilevered cheek support that places the head above the feed port, and allows the bolt to travel beneath without interference. This could incidentally result in the face being shielded from any cartridge pressure excursions. When I say cantilevered, I mean up from alongside the receiver, and not forward from the butt stock.

If I were going to do this, I'd forego the usual action mounting/bedding/action screws, and consider a barrel block mounting/bedding with an integral scope mount, to allow for the effect of LOP reduction on eye relief. This option could be accomplished without performing any actual modifications to the barreled action, and the only really different component would be the stock.

You could experiment with a built up prototype, fashioned from laminated blocks of wood. Concentrate initially on developing a simplest possible interface between the stock and barreled action, then work on cutting it down afterward to accomodate the ergonomics.

For the prototype stage, a pair of scope bases could be fastened together bottom to bottom. The pair of rings on top would accomodate the scope in a conventional manner, the pair below could be adapted to grip the barrel using shims and or bushings.

Another base and ring set could then be fastened to the barrel, underneath, and the base becomes the mounting interface with the stock.

While this is probably going to yield a higher scope position above the bore, I think this would correspond well with the added height of the cantilevered cheek rest. This lower bore axis shifts the recoil pulse lower, and can help reduce/eliminate muzzle flip.

Elegant? Hardly, but functional? Probably.

Once you have the relationships established with the prototype, it then becomes a matter of redesigning the system for simplified and unitized construction, and esthetic satisfaction.

Greg

 

[Masczek]

Re: Custom rifle project

I'm quite aware that the project is going to be very expensive, but that's ok, because I don't have a budget for it. And yes, I do have some experience with fabricating products, just no tools.

Thanks for the info Greg, it is pretty useful I'm sure I'll be making some more posts down the road.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Custom rifle project

My point is that an effective prototype is about proof of concept. Looks and ergos come later.

Greg

 

[the gman]

Re: Custom rifle project

OK, so maybe I was a hard ass to start with but I have seen lots of posts like this & talked to many folks who want to do something but really have no idea how much it is going to cost or how hard it will be. I am a little concerned that you say you have no budget for this: does that mean you have no money for it or no idea when you want to see it completed? Or both? Or did I get it wrong in that you are prepared to save up & do it a little at a time?

Greg's idea of mocking something up using wood is a great idea; this would allow you to get a feel for what it is you are trying to do without a great deal of expense to start with.

If it were me, I might be tempted to go with your idea for a bull pup on an aluminum chassis & you could certainly use something like 6061-T6 for that. For the trigger link you have two options: flexible (braided cable aka Bowden cable) or solid. The flexible is easier to manufacture & adjust as well as route around the mag box (should you go that route) but can lead to a somewhat mushy trigger pull. The solid link can offer a better feel to the trigger but can be a complete pain to engineer around the mag box & to get the right angles for the trigger release.

I take it you have seen this rifle: http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/ Cuz honestly, they seem to have done everything you want to do & for a lot less money than you will end up spending.

Good luck & like I said to start with, I hope you prove me wrong.

 

[Masczek]

Re: Custom rifle project

When I said I have no budget I meant I'm not concerned with how much it will cost, this is a project I'm planning on babying, and in time (and probably a lot of it) actually completing it. There is a lot to take into consideration with this project which is why I'm getting my info mainly from here. And yes, I've seen Desert Tactical Arms' rifles and went from designing my own rifle to theirs then back to designing mine. Once these rifles are complete, well I can't put into words on the satisfaction get out of it. Thanks for the trigger info, I'll be sure to look into them. When I said I have no budget I meant I'm not concerned with how much it will cost, this is a project I'm planning on babying, and in time (and probably a lot of it) actually completing it. There is a lot to take into consideration with this project which is why I'm getting my info mainly from here. And yes, I've seen Desert Tactical Arms' rifles and went from designing my own rifle to theirs then back to designing mine. But thanks for the trigger info, I'll be sure to look into them. And if anyone has any ideas or pointers let's have'em, I love reading ideas!

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Custom rifle project

I just went through a similar process as you describe, though not as elaborate as yours. I had a dream, it got real F_cking awsome in my head, but quickly returned to a more run of the mill type rifle. I DEFINATELY had a budget, and kept to as it was my only choice. I can tell you it is alot of work, but has been very rewarding, and I love her.

 

[renegadelizard]

Re: Custom rifle project

i like the concept of a bull pup bolt gun, but the economics of moving my hand so far to manipulate the bolt leaves me hesitant...if you could figure out a way to improve this, you would have a winner for sure....

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Custom rifle project

If I were going to consider using a link for the trigger, the first thing I would research is the flexible push-rods that are made for R/C controls. Relatively free of slop, flexible, reasonably priced, and adjustable. Understand, if you're just going to use a push-rod or a pull-rod, there will be a necessary minimum of slack, but if you use both to operate a bellcrank, camming the trigger, then they can both be placed under tension and the slop essentially disappears.

The bolt manipulation issue is one reason I would recommend a Savage action. The bolt handle mounts with a large bolt/screw, and can be quickly and easily replaced. Something with an 'S' curve that moves the knob the requisite number of inches forward would not be a biggie; but rather, just a matter of fabrication. Imagine the knob being forward, even with the boltface.

My Savage custom .260 F Class rifle carries a 28" barrel and when you add my 16.5" LOP adjustment, we end up with a 52" long package. Take out 6" and it becomes a far more manageable, better balanced 46" package. By raising the cheek weld on a cantilevered cheekpiece, bolt manipulation, even with a longer action, does not require moving the cheekweld, since the bolt does not interfere with the head position, but rather, passes below it.

Needless to say, I've given much thought to the semi-bullpup configuration, and how I might manage it on my Social Security income. I own a drill press, router, and belt sander, and have made several mockups as toys for my Grandson. It's all grist for the mill/worthwhile practice and it gives me some confidence to maybe try something like I mentioned above, and maybe even soon, say Springtime. But the first order of business is to ensure that nothing I do is irreversible.

...And while we're on the subject; if you can't get it done with a .30-'06, maybe it's overly optimistic in the first place. My upgrade from the .30-'06 would be a .280 Rem (aka 7mm Remington Express, essentially a 7mm-06).

I have a VA claim in the works, and it looks like it may end up being successful. If so there will probably be a lump sum retroactive benefit. If there's anything left over from the 'gottados', I'd like to obtain a new long action Savage with the factory D/M, .30-'06 preferably, and a 28" 280 Rem chambered barrel from L-W with the proper twist (1:9") for 7mm LR projectiles. Nosler site load data for the 175gr Ballistic Tip suggests it might be possible to get 2700fps from a 28" barrel, using a .519 BC, and BT weights also go as low as 120gr. I'm already getting 3100fps, maybe more, with the 120's. That will (even if it's just barely) get them to 1Kyd supersonic.

Greg

 

[Masczek]

Re: Custom rifle project

Alrighty, moving forward...

Thanks everyone for your imput so far. My next step is looking into carbon fiber equipment/information. Does anyone know anyone who deals with carbon fiber in the firearm industry? Also if anyone has any information on molding carbon fiber that would be great too. I've already found some stuff on the internet but would like to hear from any of you if you know anything on the subject.

Thanks again!

 

[Masczek]

Re: Custom rifle project

I find it hard to believe that no one knows anything about carbon fiber with firearms (stocks and barrels), don't leave me hang'n, speak up! Does anyone have a carbon fiber barrel setup on there rigs? If so, what make is it and how do you like it?