Has anyone ever taken a Winchester 52 and converted it to the big magazine and made a PRS rig out of it? I found a collection of Winchester 52 silhouette rifles and am thinking about buying a couple. I have seen guys modify the bolts on old Remington 40Xs and put some sort of mag conversion in them. The bolt throw also seems a bit wide to accommodate a scope very well, but I could be wrong? If Anyone with experience doing this would like to offer advice on using one of these Winchester 52s as a donor action, fire away! I have zero experience with modifying rimfire actions, thoughts??
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Custom Winchester 52B???
- Thread starter dillonduncan
- Start date
Bigger question is what stock is out there that would work with that type of magazine? You'd be better off with 10rnd magazines for the 52. I don't know that they were ever made, but I'd look at a cz magazine and see if it could be modified long before a conversion to vudoo mags, and have a stock inletted for it.
So help me understand what you want to do. You want to take one of the Grand Dames of the rimfire world, made by true craftsmen, and modify it to suite your pleasure, thus destroying it's value just to satisfy your vanity; what are you, stupid or something?
Ok, just tugging on your leg, so don't get pissed.
I recently purchased a Win. Model 52, but mine is either an A or pre A, (sometime after Winchester started making the A Model in 1936, they began adding the letter prefix to their serial numbers, A through E,: mine does not have this letter prefix), built in 1936 and has a 28" heavy target barrel (one inch at the receiver, and 7/8'' or 0.875 at the muzzle), to which I mounted an Athlon 8x36-56 scope, and I have about 3/8" clearance between the rear ocular and bolt handle/nob. I can only describe the action as the very smoothest action I've ever had the pleaser to shoot. I run the bolt with two fingers, so you should have no problem with scope clearance. Modern 5 round metal mags are available for around $35-$38. 10 round metal mags are also available for slightly more, but it's my understanding they are a few 1,000 of an inch too wide so you have to do some file work to thin them a little to work. On the right side of the stock there is the mag release button, and by pushing this the mag easily pops out. Modern picatinny rails are also available, in 0, +20 and -20 moa and you can mount them to the existing rear scope base mount located on the barrel, just in front of the receiver. On the Model A's and Pre A's, the rear receiver was flat, and had a dovetail milled into it for mounting an aperture sight. My rifle had the aperture base only and if I felt the need, I could tap into the aperture base to mount rear screws for the picatinny rail, but I seriously doubt that that is needed. I did add a dab of JB weld in this area of the existing aperture base to eliminate or greatly reduce any vibration of the rail. But the rifle is heavy enough where there is absolutely no recoil. On the Model B'sand later models, the rear receiver is rounded, but also has a dovetail cut into it for aperture sights, but again, I don't think one needs to worry about the picatinny only being secured by the two screws on the front of the rails. However, If you are, do like I did and put a dab of JB weld, ( rub a little clear shoe polish on the metal of the receiver so you can pop the weld off to put the rifle back into it's original condition).
When these guns were the hot shit of the rimfire world, ( I think they set more records than any other .22 rifle), you could order them with a target or sporter barrel and stock. It's the sporter stock with the smaller profile barrel that are so collectable today. Mine does have the "Crack of Death"(although miner, it's still there), that prompted Winchester to change their safeties. On the model "A's and pre A's the safety was sort of a copy of a Springfield '03, in that the safety was a paddle located at the rear of the receiver that flipped over to physically prevent the firing pin from moving forward. With the heat treatment they gave these receivers, and the thinness of the metal in this area, the receivers had a tendency to crack in this area when the safety was physically engaged (pushing the firing pin /bolt out of battery. In all later models, beginning with the "B" series, the safeties were mounted on the right side of the receivers approximately above the trigger, and that solved the cracking problem. Beginning in 1935 or so, all '52 models have the fast action locks (I don't remember the name that Winchester called them), to speed the lock time, from trigger pull to ignition, making the rifle a true target rifle, although I understand that there are replacement triggers available, but I see no need for that. I would estimate my trigger pull is somewhere in the 2-3 pound range, and I would assume any decent gunsmith could lighten this if needed. On most of the model that I've seen, the fore end of the stocks have a barrel band with a screw at the bottom that you can use to regulate the tension of said devise. If you use and inch pound torque wrench on this screw, you can experiment with the amount of tension you want to put on this barrel band, which will act as a poor man's tuner. Trust me, it works.
MY rifle has an an aftermarket stock on it, and the fore end is the biggest and flattest thing I've ever seen. It's what attracted me to the rifle. I saw that fore end and thought "Bench Rest" as that big ass fore end was meant to ride the bags. But since the rifle is a target model, with an after model stock, no rear sight, and has the " Crack of Death," it has no collector value, but I think I may bed the action, and refinish the walnut stock. I paid $500.00 for it, and am very happy to have it. I don't know if it's worth it to fix the "Crack of Death" or not. It's very small, and I only found it when I cleaned and oiled the action. I don't use the safety, as I don't want to enlarge the crack, and all I have to do is open the bolt to make the rifle 'safe', which to me is better than a mechanical devise that could fail, (Remington 700), It does have a match chamber of course. If it had had the original stock, and the original aperture rear sight (probably a Lyman or Redfield), and not just the aperture base, I probably would have to have paid around $850 for it. If it had had an original target scope, such as a 15X Unertle, I couldn't have afforded it.
I'm sure by now you want to know how well it shoots? Let me preface my response in saying I'm 67 years old, my heart rate isn't as slow as it use to be, but my eyes aren't too bad yet. The the reticle of the Athlon scope are a little thick for target work, So for shits and grins I think I'll put my 60X Vortex Golden Eagle on it to see just how good I can be behind the trigger, but earlier this week I was shooting Center X at 50 yards and after adjusting the fore end clamp as I described above, I shot 10, 5 shot groups and the largest 5 shot group was slightly under 1/2 inch. Of the 10 groups fired, I had 4 that were 1/4 inch, but I honestly think a scope with a finer reticle, and perhaps a little lighter trigger, I could improve on that average. I also shot at 260 yards and was hitting small chips of clay pigeons on the berm pretty regular with SK Rifle Match. I think I may have to replace the "O" MOA picatinny rail with one of +20 MOA because I was maxing out the elevation of the scope at that range.
So, I hope I answered your questions. I don't know if the sporter model had shorter barrels than 28 inches, so that may be a problem with PRS, I'm assuming ten round mags are good enough, but surely you wouldn't shorten an original barrel of a classic rifle, would you? You could have someone spin a shorter one up though, and beating your fellow competitors with a rifle that's around 90 years old has a huge coolness factor in my opinion.
Head on over to rimfire central where they have a sub forum dedicated to the Winchester Model 52. Those old boys in that forum know stuff, and I see people on other rifle forum recommending them. I may post my rifle with pictures over there next week just to see what they have to say about it. I'd like to see what they have to say about the stock. It's uglier than my first girlfriend.
Buy the guns and just enjoy them for what they are.
I am glad the RimX action exists, so the days of hacking up historic rifles is finally gone.
Booner said most of what I was going to say. I have three Win 52's. One pre-A speedloc which is still a match winner and two B models which are nicer but still somewhat unproven. The B's were a recent find and have only been to the range twice. If you could find a pair of the 10rd mages and use the EGW 20moa scope mount with a good modern 6-24 FFP optic, I think you would have the ingredients for a decent PRL match rifle. They are heavy and might be an issue on the freehand stages but most of the other options are as well. My pre-A had the bbl cut off to 22.75" which is perfect for being lighter, handy and keeping velocity at near max for those long range stages. You don't have to butcher the rifle to do this sort of think. Most of them are shooters.
I love my Winchester 52s - a couple of D model single shots purchased from the CMP in 2005 & 2007. One was kept in factory original condition as a target rifle, though I did add a Ken Viani scope rail & Weaver T24. The other one was all beat to crap, with non-matching receiver/bolt S/Ns. I sent this bbl'd action to Mike Ross, had him fit, chamber, & index a Broughton sporter contour bbl. Doan Trevor built a stock similar to an original Win 52 Sporter out of a nice English walnut blank for it. My only regret is in not trading someone for a C model repeater to base the sporter on... The triggers on both were sent out to Karl Kenyon for his modifications. This is as far as I'll go in modifying a Win 52 - the thought of modifying one to use V-22 magazines strikes me as a bona-fide turd hunt.
I'd sent two CMP Rem 40X/40XB actions out to Jelrod for the modification to use V-22 mags; this was before Mike Bush had released the V-22 actions. I got a lot of enjoyment out of both these repeaters, although one (the 40XB) was in pretty nice shape as received from CMP, so I have mixed emotions about the modifications done to it. Given how many of these CMP 40Xs were bought only for the actions by 22RF BR shooters, I do wish I'd kept the nice 40XB as a target rifle. It would've made a good F-class rifle, but that heavy bbl was hard on my support arm elbow...
I'd sent two CMP Rem 40X/40XB actions out to Jelrod for the modification to use V-22 mags; this was before Mike Bush had released the V-22 actions. I got a lot of enjoyment out of both these repeaters, although one (the 40XB) was in pretty nice shape as received from CMP, so I have mixed emotions about the modifications done to it. Given how many of these CMP 40Xs were bought only for the actions by 22RF BR shooters, I do wish I'd kept the nice 40XB as a target rifle. It would've made a good F-class rifle, but that heavy bbl was hard on my support arm elbow...
To those telling me I’m going to ruin a rifle, piss off. Rifles are meant to be shot so if modifying a rifle a little will make me get more excited and shoot it more then so be it. Still don’t agree? Go buy them all so no one can “ruin”them. -coming from someone who has more classic rifles in my safe than I know what to do with. I guess I would rather go shoot matches with a rifle that has a classic action than a new machined action.
To those with positive feedback, thank you. The Voodoo conversion may not be possible with that mag release, any thoughts to this? Definitely would have to go with a custom inlet stock. I may leave the bolt alone and stick with the 10 round mags and file them as someone mentioned above. Anyone have tips on where the holes for the base should be drilled?
To those with positive feedback, thank you. The Voodoo conversion may not be possible with that mag release, any thoughts to this? Definitely would have to go with a custom inlet stock. I may leave the bolt alone and stick with the 10 round mags and file them as someone mentioned above. Anyone have tips on where the holes for the base should be drilled?
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Just buy a Bergara B14R and save yourself some time, money and heartache. Save the 52's for folks that appreciate their heritage and quality.
The above and $1.75 will buy you a cup of coffee in some places.
The above and $1.75 will buy you a cup of coffee in some places.
Please don't. Unless the stock is already FUBARed I would try to keep it original. Some guns are in a class of their own. Especially when production of them has ceased.
I own a late 90s Winchester 52B. Not an 'original' but still a great gun. Only gripe is that it came without iron sights, so a scope was necessary. But the 90 degree bolt throw doesn't like the scope very much. If I try to work the bolt like I do on my centerfires, I end up squishing a finger or thumb between the bolt handle and scope. My magazines carry 5 rounds. I have seen 10 rounders are out there, but never bothered to find them.
I own a late 90s Winchester 52B. Not an 'original' but still a great gun. Only gripe is that it came without iron sights, so a scope was necessary. But the 90 degree bolt throw doesn't like the scope very much. If I try to work the bolt like I do on my centerfires, I end up squishing a finger or thumb between the bolt handle and scope. My magazines carry 5 rounds. I have seen 10 rounders are out there, but never bothered to find them.
Nice accurate guns to start with and will make a nice rifle.... I have had several and one for a silhouette rifle. After the (several various) 52s and a 40x I found Anschutz and gave the others up. The Anschutz trigger is a huge part of the reason.... The latest aftermarket triggers for the R700 might be as good but IMO no better.
If you can buy the rifle for less than a grand buy a Bergara instead. If it cost more than a grand buy a RimX or A Vudoo. Proven with no need to try to get something to "work" in the magazine - just go with what they come with. When you talk about modifying a 40X to take mags.... Years ago, when all of this started to take off and happen there were many hundreds of posts with all kinds of crap going wrong before that ever got sorted and when it did the result was the Vudoo the RimX and Bergara.
If you can buy the rifle for less than a grand buy a Bergara instead. If it cost more than a grand buy a RimX or A Vudoo. Proven with no need to try to get something to "work" in the magazine - just go with what they come with. When you talk about modifying a 40X to take mags.... Years ago, when all of this started to take off and happen there were many hundreds of posts with all kinds of crap going wrong before that ever got sorted and when it did the result was the Vudoo the RimX and Bergara.
By the time you get finished with the 52 you will have more money in it than just buying a VuDoo, RimX or Bergara. Plus all the headache with magazines, stocks and barrels. When you can just order what you want and have it in a few weeks or months.
For our friend nesikabay, Please, please go home to mama and grow up.
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General warning for everyone.
Thanks
General warning for everyone.
Thanks
I've had a few 52's, C's and D's, and sold all but one. I traded into it as a basket case because I found it intriguing; this was right after developing the only successful 40X repeater conversion, the one that uses the big magazines you're asking about. I thought about converting the 52D to a repeater after I fixed a few issues, removed the boogered up factory barrel that, at the hands of the unenlightened, would never be usable again. I put a nice Krieger on it and it's a true hammer. The question above about stocks and a DBM is really what kept me from converting it to a repeater and I still enjoy shooting it just as it is. If stocks and other parts weren't an issue, I'd likely pursue the conversion.
MB
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