Gunsmithing Cutting fluid for flush reaming

[wnroscoe]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what size reservoir are most running? how many gallons of fluid are sitting in it at idle? i'm trying to get an idea of what i need to make for this. i don't want to make something too small that i have to shut down the op while waiting for the fluid to migrate back to the tank. then again, i don't want to buy 20 gallons of oil when 5 will work. </div></div>
When I switched over to the new machine the large chip pan held quite a bit of the coolant before it drained back into my 5 gallon reservoir. Basically, the pump emptied approx 3 gallons pretty quick and ran dry. I purchased an 8 gallon plastic storage tote from Lowes and added a combined 3 gallons of Rigid Dark threading oil and EP Tap Magic Extra. The tote from Lowes was an up grade from my 5 gallon orange Home Depot bucket

Hey, a guy's gotta splurge sometimes.

The change worked great, no more empty reservoir and it works like a charm.

RAD, your avitar looks like it's on acid.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what size reservoir are most running? how many gallons of fluid are sitting in it at idle? i'm trying to get an idea of what i need to make for this. i don't want to make something too small that i have to shut down the op while waiting for the fluid to migrate back to the tank. then again, i don't want to buy 20 gallons of oil when 5 will work. </div></div>
When I switched over to the new machine the large chip pan held quite a bit of the coolant before it drained back into my 5 gallon reservoir. Basically, the pump emptied approx 3 gallons pretty quick and ran dry. I purchased an 8 gallon plastic storage tote from Lowes and added a combined 3 gallons of Rigid Dark threading oil and EP Tap Magic Extra. The tote from Lowes was an up grade from my 5 gallon orange Home Depot bucket

Hey, a guy's gotta splurge sometimes.

The change worked great, no more empty reservoir and it works like a charm.

RAD, your avitar looks like it's on acid.
</div></div>


thanks. i'm sure you know that i'm not going to settle for a plastic tote though

. i haven't done any sheet metal work in a while...

maybe i'll make the reservoir 10-12 gallons and start out with 5 gallons of fluid. if that can't keep up, i can add more until it does.

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

If you are gonna do some tin bending, maybe make a tray liner for the chip tray that concentrates the fluid and moves it back to the dump quicker......just a thunk.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks. i'm sure you know that i'm not going to settle for a plastic tote though

. i haven't done any sheet metal work in a while...

maybe i'll make the reservoir 10-12 gallons and start out with 5 gallons of fluid. if that can't keep up, i can add more until it does. </div></div>

I got the Lowes Tote idea from Robert Gradous

I didnt want to start over since I had a system in place.

There are several after market options out there, here's a 7 gallon system from Grizzly, only $159 Lathe Coolant System

 

[Marriedman1]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

This looks very well....I think i will fab a catch pan to fit under the chuck in between the ways with a tapered bottom into a return hose back to this Grizzley tank. I found a nice rotating union on ebay and it came today. This will be a nice clean system. With some Custom race car fittings and hose this will be the ticket.....

Roscoe have you customized your rotating pilots for the extra oil flow??? If so what do they need to look like to work well...Post some photos please...

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

Take the bushing off the reamer and replace the screw, tighten the screw as if the bushing were in place. Use a dermal tool with a small cut off wheel and cut oil groves in the screw head that align with the reamer flutes.

Don’t worry, PTG and JGS do the same thing.

 

[Marriedman1]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

Ok so you dont have to do anything to the bushing itself?????? Sounds easy enough.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hero's machine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are gonna do some tin bending, maybe make a tray liner for the chip tray that concentrates the fluid and moves it back to the dump quicker......just a thunk. </div></div>

not a bad idea. maybe a vee shaped tray perforated at the bottom. this would catch the majority of the large swarf and allow the fluid to pass through to the real chip pan. then the fluid would have a nearly unobstructed path to the reservoir.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GLOWWORM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I found a nice rotating union on ebay and it came today. </div></div>

which rotary union did you get? that's the next purchase i need to make. i'd like to find something with 3/8 npt fittings.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GLOWWORM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok so you dont have to do anything to the bushing itself?????? Sounds easy enough. </div></div>

Nothing to the bushing at all, it's so easy a cave man can do it.

 

[Marriedman1]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

DeuBlin Rotary fitting 255-012-16 brand new on Ebay for $40.00....Sells for $175.00 there are many to choose from there. I called Deublin and gave them the part # they told me it was good for hot oil or even steam and a high RPM if needed.Also told me dont run them dry for any period of time its not good on the seals.


Roscoe.....Im as close to a Cave Man as there is. I have also stayed in a Holiday Inn Express.

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hero's machine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are gonna do some tin bending, maybe make a tray liner for the chip tray that concentrates the fluid and moves it back to the dump quicker......just a thunk. </div></div>

not a bad idea. maybe a vee shaped tray perforated at the bottom. this would catch the majority of the large swarf and allow the fluid to pass through to the real chip pan. then the fluid would have a nearly unobstructed path to the reservoir. </div></div>

Or just brake a vee and brake a expanded liner to catch the chips......quicker return means less oil.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

bumping this thread.

what's the consensus on a 1/4 npt rotory union? i'm thinking that the barrel bore is still goig to be the choke point most of the time if i am using 3/8 line from the pump.

i'm thinking the 1/4npt will be an easy drill and tap at the muzzle end of any contour barrel. with 3/8npt, it may be pushing it on sporter contour barrels.

 

[Marriedman1]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

I think a 1/4 is fine...might even try a 1/8 pipe. The restricktion is still the rotating pilot on the reamer.

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

It all depends how efficient you want to get. 1/8" would do it, you do have frictional losses at fittings and the coupler has its losses....if you were looking at a pump that had minimum pressures and flows, you might be disapointed. If you are like most, and run more pump than is needed....no biggie.

I scored a hyd swivel that is #7 jic, flow is a nonissue....I could flow corn through it.

I am thinking about trying to build a cheap pump system for a friend using a power steering pump and lovejoy coupler to a motor or a pulley system.....depending on rpm.

Lastly. I recently scored a bunch of rigid nu-clear which is said by my plumber pal to work better for them then traditional sulfer oil......anyone other then STR try it?

 

[300sniper]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

lol on the <span style="font-style: italic">cheap</span> pump setup. i'm working on a <span style="font-style: italic">cheap</span> pump setup (also using new, american made parts) from the auto parts store. by the time i'm done, i don't think it will be much cheaper than one of the close-coupled carbonator style pumps. but if it works, it will be my idea, my design, my machine work/fabrication, 99% american made and most of all, it will be cool

 

[LRI]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

Fwiw:

At nesika I devised a contraption that used a drilled center to couple with the bore. Id spot the muzzle with a countersink stuck in a dewalt prior to chambering.

We had over 400lbs of fluid pressure at the unit. No leaks or issues. Wed forget sometimes and polish with it still attached.

Still worked. 1500 rpm didn't kill it.

Just saying. You can leave your taps in the drawer.

C.


If it were me on a manual id go buy a 20 dollar chevy oil pump and hook it up to a cheap electric motor. Rig a switch, do a little welding to mount it, and make the chips fly.

Put a Holley carb sticker on your lathe. The chicks will dig it.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it were me on a manual id go buy a 20 dollar chevy oil pump and hook it up to a cheap electric motor. Rig a switch, do a little welding to mount it, and make the chips fly.

Put a Holley carb sticker on your lathe. The chicks will dig it.

</div></div>

my girlfriend hates when i am brainstorming about a project. the living room floor becomes a layout area

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

save your money. chuck it up in a 1/2" drill......works for pre lube on our engines.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

I thought about the chevy oil pump too but couldn't get past the lack of a seal on the drive shaft. I guess you could just use the guts and build your own housing.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hired Gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought about the chevy oil pump too but couldn't get past the lack of a seal on the drive shaft. I guess you could just use the guts and build your own housing. </div></div>

mine's going to be mounted inside of the tank. i thought about putting seals on the shaft but due to the lack of bearing, i think it needs the oil between the shaft and the housing.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

Running it submerged is how it was designed. Should go a couple hundred thousand miles like that. I like the idea of the bypass built in so it never stalls the motor. If you thread the bypass port you can make the bypass pressure adjustable.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

i got a 65-70 psi spring for the bypass. i'll see how that works. if i find i need more, i can block it off and go to an external adjustable bypass. now i just need to find time to machine all my parts for this contraption and bend up a tank.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

May I suggest a super cool fabricated Hamburger styled full kickout box pan with a full length windage screen to help with foaming. It would be super cool bolted up under your chip pan. Should be good for a few horsepower.

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

how fast you planning on spinning that pump? they drive off cam rpm...but I dunno what the reduction is between the dist gear and the cam. 1735rpm is equal to 3470 engine rpm w/o the cam/dist reduction figured in......it could be like running the engine at 8k rpm....lol

 

[Straight Shooter]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

In a Chevy old style V-8 the oil pump shaft spins at the same rpm as the distributor shaft that drives it. A Chevy rotor spins 1 time for every two revolution of the crankshaft so a 2-1 reduction. 3450 rpm motor will equate a Chevy spinning 6900 rpm. I would start with the 1725 if going direct but that is still way too fast. I'm running a gear rotor pump and have mine down to 600 rpm and I still have to bypass about 70% of my flow.

 

[Marriedman1]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

I actually saw a nice Sprint Car pan with a Oberg Filter on Ebay///Would be really tricked out mounted on the wall by the Lathe >>LOL

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hired Gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In a Chevy old style V-8 the oil pump shaft spins at the same rpm as the distributor shaft that drives it. A Chevy rotor spins 1 time for every two revolution of the crankshaft so a 2-1 reduction. 3450 rpm motor will equate a Chevy spinning 6900 rpm. I would start with the 1725 if going direct but that is still way too fast. I'm running a gear rotor pump and have mine down to 600 rpm and I still have to bypass about 70% of my flow. </div></div>

thanks for pulling my head out of my azz, I can't believe I brain cramped that one.....monday mulligan.

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

I bet 300 shows up in a week with a 3ph motor with a freq drive on it to solve the problems. I see a hobbs and and pressure regulator within 2 weeks...

 

[300sniper]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

i am going to run it with a 1725 rpm motor. i have a high volume pump now but will most likely end up switching to a standard volume. they are cheap enough and readily available so it won't be anything to change it if i feel the need.


plenty of these pumps have been running for long periods of time at an engine speeds of at least 3450 rpm.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

I know they draw a bunch of horsepower. We get my Milwaukee 1/2 drill stinking about everytime we prime a motor. With a 500 rpm drill you can exceed the bypass flow rate pretty easy. We can get 80-100 psi on a 65 psi relief valve. I have heard it takes something like 35 horsepower to pull that pump 4000 rpm with a 65psi setting with hot oil. I run 0 Weight oil in my dragster and we still need an oil temp of 155 before enough will go out the bypass to keep from going over 65psi. Some of the guys I run with that use wet sumps use old used standard volume standard pressure pumps in their 9000+ rpm drag motors. Thats 35-40 psi wound out.

Has little to nothing to do with what we got going here but I was on a roll.

20 psi on my GreTan coupler will shoot oil about 50'! 100 psi and it hisses like a overblown turbo wastegate.

 

[LRI]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

5 stage dry sump?

Scavenger tank would be kewel too.

 

[Don Black]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

I cobbled this system together a couple of months ago.
Haldex pump from Northern Tool, & a surplus 3/4 hp motor I had lying about. Reservoir is a five gallon Lowes bucket.

Oil is drawn through a modified automotive filter & pumped into the muzzle end through A buttonhead Zerk grease fitting (I like this better than the swivels, & it's cheaper) Has served well for about a dozen years now.

Practiced my tin bending & came up with this catch pan to return the oil to the reservoir. There are four magnets on the bottom & sides of the pan to catch chips & swarfs.
System is capable of over 2500 psi, but I don't usually run more than 60 psi.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

Has anyone tried the Rigid Extreme Peformance Oil? I just ordered up 5 gallons to try. It is supposed to be formulated for stainless.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hired Gun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have heard it takes something like 35 horsepower to pull that pump 4000 rpm with a 65psi setting with hot oil.</div></div>

with the size/type of drive on a sbc oil pump and the cam/distributor gear, i'm pretty skeptical of that.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

You are right. That doesn't seem proper at all. I thought I got that number from something Smokey Yunick published but I can't find it now to cite my source so I withdraw that.

I asked around on one of my other forums and there are reports indicating 1/2 to 3/4 horse to pull 40 psi. Yours ought to work great.

I can tell you first hand that the pump I'm using for flushing will burn up a 3/4 horse motor in short order if I get more than about 15 psi back pressure and that is running 862 rpm pump speed. My pump is too big. At 1750 it is rated to flow 20 gal per minute. I can't send it back so I am just slowing it down and bypassing most of the flow to preserve my motor. I wish I would have done the chevy oil pump. It wouldn't have been that hard to build a new upper housing and incorporated a seal or set it up to run submerged.

What I have works really well though.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

instead of hijacking this thread with my flush system build, i started a new thread and moved my posts here: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2940484#Post2940484

 

[300sniper]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

i built the reservoir this morning. it calcs out to 10.75 gallons. i figured on 10 gallons plus a bit of breathing room.

it's been sitting for about an hour now full of water to check for leaks. i'm confident there aren't any but i better check. gravity is enough for this test but if it were for fuel on a vehicle, i'd find a way to pressurise it.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Re: Cutting fluid for flush reaming

Rather than water I like to test with acetone. It will go through cracks that nothing else will and it will not contaminate your joint if you need to tig weld on it.