CZ 452 Trainer 22 lr5-shot group size at 50 yards

J

jhegg

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Minuteman
Mar 8, 2007
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Fargo, ND
#1
I expect better than 1 MOA out of this rifle. Part of the problem may have the US Optics SN3 3.2-17x that can not be adjusted to be parallax free at 50 yards. A very poor cheek weld (due to the stock design and high rings) didn't help either. I also was getting 2-3 and 1-4 groupings and occasional vertical stringing. Any advice on how to proceed from here?

Sorry about the jumbled chart, the formatting didn't carry through to the post.

Ammo # Groups MOA Ave SD Smallest Largest
Wolf Match Target 21 1.000 0.500 0.130 0.279 0.692
Norma TAC-22 18 1.053 0.526 0.176 0.282 0.830
Remington Eley Target 02 1.238 0.619 0.018 0.606 0.632
Federal Premium Match 03 1.267 0.633 0.535 0.325 0.802
CCI Standard Velocity 10 1.386 0.693 0.161 0.495 0.968
Remington Eley EPS 02 1.410 0.705 0.055 0.666 0.744
Eley 10X 07 1.435 0.718 0.098 0.589 0.867
 
#3
Raise the comb with multiple layers of cardboard and tape for better weld. If it works get lower rings. Eliminate what you know needs improvement first. Try another scope. A $200 rimfire scope with fine/thin ret and the ability to set parallex close will work better for small groups than that $2,000 monster you are using.
 
#5
My CZ452 is the most accurate .22 I have ever shot. With either Wolf target or match extra it will deliver 3/8-1/2 all day long at 50yds. with match extra a constant 3/8". I have the same factory stock and do not feel inadequate using it. Also have the stock trigger. It could be a little smoother but once you learn it and have good marksmanship skills down you can overcome some of the lesser items. It would take a lot more money than I have in it to part with it.
 
#6
Remember that all rifles even of the same model are not always equal. Yours may shoot 1/2 moa with golden bullets and mine may only do 1 moa with the finest ammo. The OP's groups aren't bad but not what he expected. Oh well....
 
#7
GH41 said:
Raise the comb with multiple layers of cardboard and tape for better weld. If it works get lower rings. Eliminate what you know needs improvement first. Try another scope. A $200 rimfire scope with fine/thin ret and the ability to set parallex close will work better for small groups than that $2,000 monster you are using.
Click to expand...

Good place to start ^^
 
#10
if you are referring the 452 Special Military Trainer with the hog back stock 24 5/8ths barrel with sights,,they are designed to be shot with sights and are really hard to shoot off a rest or bipod with a really high mounted scope,,the 3-9x33 EFR Leupold is short enough to fit behind the sight and can be mounted low and is easier to shoot well,,they are very inherently accurate rifles but were never meant to be target rifles,,they are meant to be shot from field positions and hit small soft targets,

if you are referring the 452 Precision Trainer with the Manners stock ,fat barrel and no sights I would be sick wih 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards,,
 
#13
I know it looks like I am giving jshtbt & Lazer a hard time but the OP is looking for some real world advice and in put from others to help diagnose his shooting. I am not saying that jshtbt & Lazer are not truthful in what they are claiming but there statements can be a little misleading. It his common place these days in the "forum world" to hear about rifles that shoot X all day long when in actuality the rifles in question (and ammo) may only be able to produce it on occasion at best. Therefore it is more helpful to actually quantify your claims also including how you shot the rifle (prone with a bipod, or off a bench), rifle details (any modifications), ammo used, and in what conditions. But this is just my .02
 
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#14
jbell said:
I know it looks like I am giving jshtbt & Lazer a hard time but the OP is looking for some real world advice and in put from others to help diagnose his shooting. I am not saying that jshtbt & Lazer are not truthful in what they are claiming but there statements can be a little misleading. It his common place these days in the "forum world" to hear about rifles that shoot X all day long when in actuality the rifles in question (and ammo) may only be able to produce it on occasion at best. Therefore it is more helpful to actually quantify your claims also including how you shot the rifle (prone with a bipod, or off a bench), rifle details (any modifications), ammo used, and in what conditions. But this is just my .02
Click to expand...

jbell, Thank you!

mrbig,
It is the 452 Special Military Trainer, not the 452 Precision Trainer.
 
#16
I have one now and have had 2 other 452 Trainers and they all respond well to floating the barrel from the rear sight out to the end of the stock,,sometimes it helps to put a thin washer between the eustecheon and the stock where the screw attaches the stock to the barrel under the front sight,,they also respond well to tune the torque settings on the action screw and the front barrel screw,,mine usually start tightening up around 16-18 inch lbs and most of my 9-10 CZ`s like the action screw at 18-20 inch lbs and the barrel screw 2-3 inch lbs tighter than the rear screw,
sometimes it takes about 1,000 rounds to break a CZ in and for it to really start shooting up to snuff,,
 
#17
Well, I think your 452 is shooting great. Take a look in the stickies for this forum and go to the 6x5 thread started by BM11. This will give you a real world perspective on your shooter, rifle and ammo performance. There are two CZs currently listed in the top ten and both are significantly modified and have Lilja barrels. There is not a single sporter weight gun/barrel until you get to #11 and I think that guy was probably insanely lucky. Try some more ammo alternatives. Variations in cheek pressure will lead directly to vertical stringing.
 
#19
Quarter horse, (not trying to derail the thread) but since you mentioned the 6x5 challenge, whitch entries are factory barrels?
Sorry for the newb question but I'm just getting started and would like to know where I stand w my cz vpt oem barrel.
Thanks lazer
 
#20
Lazer, the two CZs listed in the top ten have heavier profile Lilja barrels. You will note that three of the shooters in the top ten are all using a Sauer 200TR. This is JBell's rifle and the three shooters are JB and his two young daughters. The rifle is crazy accurate and it is treated with deprecating humor by some of the posters. BM11 was good enough to post the # of the post for each entry. If you go to the entries # you will usually find a description and picture of the rifle used. Most of the rifles that have higher placement and factory barrels are dedicated target rifles from noted makers. You will also find that most all the higher placements are shooting higher end sub-sonic target ammo. If you are happy with the way your rifle is set up, the next step is to feed it good ammo. Lapua Center-X has been a good choice for many shooters but is certainly not used exclusively. Good luck and post to the 6x5 thread. It has been a great learning experience for me.
 
#21
1/4 horse, sorry but your response is not that clear. Can anyone tell me whitch rifles in the 50 yd challenge are factory barreled, also the cost of that rifle. It's very much like round 4 in the bolt gun section, where moboost put a price limit on a factory rig. Here's an example a sako is a factory rifle, but so is a rem 700, problem is the sako is $4000 and the rem 700 is $600. Sorry to derail thread, any help is much appreiciated ! Thanks anyone, lazer
 
#24
jhegg said:
I expect better than 1 MOA out of this rifle. Part of the problem may have the US Optics SN3 3.2-17x that can not be adjusted to be parallax free at 50 yards. A very poor cheek weld (due to the stock design and high rings) didn't help either. I also was getting 2-3 and 1-4 groupings and occasional vertical stringing. Any advice on how to proceed from here?

Sorry about the jumbled chart, the formatting didn't carry through to the post.

Ammo # Groups MOA Ave SD Smallest Largest
Wolf Match Target 21 1.000 0.500 0.130 0.279 0.692
Norma TAC-22 18 1.053 0.526 0.176 0.282 0.830
Remington Eley Target 02 1.238 0.619 0.018 0.606 0.632
Federal Premium Match 03 1.267 0.633 0.535 0.325 0.802
CCI Standard Velocity 10 1.386 0.693 0.161 0.495 0.968
Remington Eley EPS 02 1.410 0.705 0.055 0.666 0.744
Eley 10X 07 1.435 0.718 0.098 0.589 0.867
Click to expand...
With scope not being able to parallax free, poor cheek weld. And you are getting double grouping. It sounds like gun handling problems to me ( causing a different set up for shots within the group. the parallax alone could cause this ). You are shooting some small groups. Where does your scope adjust to parallax free? Try to shoot at that distance.
Look at your shooting set up first. You using Bi-pods or rest? What are the shooting conditions? A slight wind can open groups.
Mark
 
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