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Cz 455/457 drop in barrel, which one
- Thread starter nakoa01
- Start date
Pretty easy for me. I like to be able to set my headspace, and the only manufacturer that provides a way to do that, as far as I know, is Lilja.
Me too. I haven't tried any other aftermarket barrels, but I recently put a shimmed Lilja barrel on my 455 Tacticool. This rifle was always a good shooter, but the improvement was really dramatic. Little bitty groups and scored 248/250 with 11 x's on the IBS 50-yd. BR target. How much of the improvement was due to barrel quality and how much to headspace I've no idea, but the results speak for themselves.
I just ordered up a Lilja for my 455. Great company to deal with. Mine was a special order barrel so won’t have it for awhile. But they have stock of the standard drop ins.
I have a Lother Walther 17hm2 barrel in my 455. It was a test barrel with 45 rounds through. They cut to 16.5 and retread ed it. Went in real tight. Only have a couple groups due to the dirty a a$$ cold here in ND. Couldn't tell one hole from another at 50 yards. It'll be my new gopher slayer. Attached is groups Lothar Walther was getting and I was duplicating as well
Attachments
2nd this. Tune that headspace and I think you can get better groups. Otherwise I think you're leaving it to luck to have your receiver, barrel, and chamber to be optimized.
Please advise me, how badly can the headspace go wrong with a new barrel?
I am trying to buy one for my Quad and as it has a quite fool-proof attachment, I'd think that they have tuned it at the shop readily for me.
I can probably decrease the headspace by sanding material from the barrel attachment point, but I guess it should be perfect as it is when it arrives? Did you have to improve headspace?
Was it like 0.043 at max for good accuracy or dependant on manufacturer?
I am trying to buy one for my Quad and as it has a quite fool-proof attachment, I'd think that they have tuned it at the shop readily for me.
I can probably decrease the headspace by sanding material from the barrel attachment point, but I guess it should be perfect as it is when it arrives? Did you have to improve headspace?
Was it like 0.043 at max for good accuracy or dependant on manufacturer?
I don't think you'll have a catastrophic failure by any means, but if your headspace isn't right your accuracy can suffer.
@padom had a mfr do a batch of barrels custom fit to CZ receivers and found that the tenon lengths were not the same for 455s as they were for 457s (even though CZ says they are).
I would not recommend sanding the receiver face or barrel tenon- if either of these surfaces need adjusted it should be done precisely (lathe, micrometer, etc) otherwise you will likely disrupt their alignment.
Lol. Your "sanding" is going to create a headspace measurement from chamber face shoulder inconsistent 360 around the shoulder. Therefore.the barrel.will sit cocked in the receiver. The only way to properly have an exact tenon length from tenon face to shoulder 360 around the barrel is on a lathe...
Headspace and chamber are the 2 biggest factors in accuracy. And headspace numbers differ based on what ammo you want to shoot due to varying rim thickness. I'm using a custom match chamber cut with a reamer I had made and had headspace set at 0.041. I shoot Federal Ultramatch and SK RM and we are talking extreme accuracy. Consistent 6x5 at 100yd with a aggregate of sub 0.75. 0.5-0.6 groups at 300 and 400yds.. all posted in.my Custom Bartlein review thread.. I've tested a LOT of drop in and custom CZ 22lr barrels out there. Nothing is more accurate than a fully custom fit to your action barrel.
Just started the 2nd cz 455/457 22lr group buy today for all those guys that missed the first one.
Best DROP-IN barrel out there is the Bartlein. But still not a custom fit. I tested the Bartlein drop in vs Bartlein full custom fit. The custom is stupid accurate at 50, 100, 200, 300 out to 500yd.
So the Bartlein drop in with its Bentz chamber is better than the Lilja? Tell me more or point me in the direction to read about the Bartlein custom fit barrel.
I may get in line for this new batch of custom barrels.
I may get in line for this new batch of custom barrels.
What is the tenon length on these Bartlein drop-ins? Are they shimmable? What chamber? I must have missed the fact that Bartlein is offering a "drop-in" barrel for CZ's.
The best way is to measure the barrel tenon length and the receiver face to bolt face recess depth and subtract the former from the latter. The most accurate measurement will be gotten from using a depth micrometer to make these measurements.
Using Lilja as an example, the barrel tenon will measure 1.200". The receiver face to bolt face recess depth will vary by a few thousandths on CZ 455's and 457's. Typically they are somewhere around 1.235" to 1.238". As an example: If the tenon length of 1.200" is subtracted from the RF to BFR measurement of 1.238" it leaves you with a headspace measurement of .038" which is too tight. If you add a .003" shim to the barrel tennon, which serves to shorten the tenon by .003", it will increase the headspace to .041". If you wanted to set your headspace to .043", the instead of a .003" shim, you would need a .005" shim.
I hope that makes sense.
Some folks swear by using Plastiguage and others by using go no-go guages. While I feel that you can end up with a serviceable rifle this way, you definitely won't end up with a precisely set headspace. And like padom said, headspace is one of the bigger factors to accuracy.
My personal experimentation has lead me to believe that headspace matching your chosen ammo's rim thickness, or .001" tighter, is optimal. Once headspace starts to exceed rim thickness, group sizes grow exponentially with each thousandth of an inch. This is why I said that Lilja barrels with their shimmable tenon length are my only choice for an aftermarket drop-in barrel. I know of no other barrel manufacturer making shimmable barrels. And as far as I know, Lilja is the only one making a barrel with a match chamber that isn't a Bentz. They used to make them with a Bentz and a set tenon length, but thanks to Don Smith (Djdilliodon) working with Carson Lilja, that setup went the way of the Dodo a couple of years ago!
I purchased a CZ 455 a couple years ago just to tinker around with. Funny how putting a little money into it now and then can add up. Although I do like the rifle if I had it to do over I would probably just save a little longer and buy something like a Vudoo.
In my opinion hands down the best investment for the money with the CZ 455 has been the BScar two stage trigger. Mine is set 8 oz first and 8 oz second stage--Fantastic Trigger. You will probably have to inlet the stock some to get it too clear, but that is not difficult. That and a really good scope will help you shoot better and it will definitely be more enjoyable.
One day after shooting couple hundred rounds I noticed my groups starting to walk a little. Now you would not think a 22 LR round would have enough recoil to loosen screws but it does. Both my action screws had started to loosen and the two front screws on the 419 scope rail as well. So invest in a decent toque tool.
As for drop in barrels. I put a Bartlein on my rifle, it is very well made and looks killer. But while the stock CZ barrel is a loose fit (no doubt designed that way to make changing barrels easier) the Bartlein fits pretty snug. Without the proper tools you could easily scuff the barrel up trying to install it. The barrel indexes to the bolt guide and there is some wiggle room there. You can twist the barrel a little clockwise or counter clockwise and everything will still screw down. However if you do not get it in the "sweet spot" the bolt will not cycle well and tends to bind. As Padom posted earlier if you can get in on a group buy that is really the way to go and have the barrel installed by Bartlein.
The headspace my Bartlein barrel is about .044 but even with that and the Bentz chamber it still shoots one ragged hole at fifty yards. The main improvement I noticed over the stock barrel is that it is more consistent and with less fliers.
Had I it to do over I could have just installed the BScar trigger, dropped my March scope on there and called it done and enjoyed the rifle for what it is. But I do like the Bartlein barrel and enjoy it on there. Just depends on how much you want to spend,
In my opinion hands down the best investment for the money with the CZ 455 has been the BScar two stage trigger. Mine is set 8 oz first and 8 oz second stage--Fantastic Trigger. You will probably have to inlet the stock some to get it too clear, but that is not difficult. That and a really good scope will help you shoot better and it will definitely be more enjoyable.
One day after shooting couple hundred rounds I noticed my groups starting to walk a little. Now you would not think a 22 LR round would have enough recoil to loosen screws but it does. Both my action screws had started to loosen and the two front screws on the 419 scope rail as well. So invest in a decent toque tool.
As for drop in barrels. I put a Bartlein on my rifle, it is very well made and looks killer. But while the stock CZ barrel is a loose fit (no doubt designed that way to make changing barrels easier) the Bartlein fits pretty snug. Without the proper tools you could easily scuff the barrel up trying to install it. The barrel indexes to the bolt guide and there is some wiggle room there. You can twist the barrel a little clockwise or counter clockwise and everything will still screw down. However if you do not get it in the "sweet spot" the bolt will not cycle well and tends to bind. As Padom posted earlier if you can get in on a group buy that is really the way to go and have the barrel installed by Bartlein.
The headspace my Bartlein barrel is about .044 but even with that and the Bentz chamber it still shoots one ragged hole at fifty yards. The main improvement I noticed over the stock barrel is that it is more consistent and with less fliers.
Had I it to do over I could have just installed the BScar trigger, dropped my March scope on there and called it done and enjoyed the rifle for what it is. But I do like the Bartlein barrel and enjoy it on there. Just depends on how much you want to spend,
Just an FYI, you can have your barrel tenon lengthened to 1.200 like the lilja. Then you can buy the shim pack from lilja and adjust your headspace as you wish. I did this with my factory cz455 barrel and it shoots fantastic.
The headspace and chamber is important but one thing you will.not get with a drop in is a custom fit to your action barrel tenon. Working with and testing a lot of these manufacturers drop in CZ barrels, they cut the tenon diameters on the small side so they fit in all the receivers. I dont have my numbers with me, but a pretty big in swing in receiver ID measurements on the 20+ I've seen and measured. If they didnt do this some wouldnt fit in receivers.
With the customs, action has to be in hand to custom fit the tenon diameter to YOUR receiver ID for a nice, tight, wobble free fit just shy of a press fit and we glue them in. No set screws to possibly induce stress on the chamber.
With the customs, action has to be in hand to custom fit the tenon diameter to YOUR receiver ID for a nice, tight, wobble free fit just shy of a press fit and we glue them in. No set screws to possibly induce stress on the chamber.
I ordered a Lilja drop in barrel for my 457 last night.. it's on it's way today !! Looking forward to getting out to the range and testing it out
1911 operator keep us posted.
I have a bartlein here that I had hand fitted form Craddock Precision. And ordered a lotha walther yesterday. Will be here tomorrow
I have a bartlein here that I had hand fitted form Craddock Precision. And ordered a lotha walther yesterday. Will be here tomorrow
I drove 3 hrs to have mine hand fitted. Very loose chamber. Like I put the bullet in and it falls to the rim, turn it upside down and it falls out. Had it set to 041 head space. It shoots sk rifle match into a ragged hole. Sk std plus one lots sucks. 2nd lot itty bitty holes. Cci std velocity slightly larger than a dime. Norma elite sucks, noma sub sonic sucks, rws subs suck. Picking up some eley tomorrow but I don't shoot it much. Center x shoots ok but not as good as sk rifle match. Lots vary and make all the difference in the world though.
Barrel less than 200rounds through it. The fit to reciver is perfect. I had to lube it with clp and a couple taps with dead blow to get it in. No wobble of any kind. 22in, no threads, target crown. Was shot at 50 yds, no wind. Have shot two seperate times.
Barrel less than 200rounds through it. The fit to reciver is perfect. I had to lube it with clp and a couple taps with dead blow to get it in. No wobble of any kind. 22in, no threads, target crown. Was shot at 50 yds, no wind. Have shot two seperate times.
I'm pretty sure I have one of the first one's they did and it has 0.600 thread length wich is standard for CF 1/2X28 threads. They may be offering the 0.400" RF length threads now. FWIW I did not order this barrel from them, I bought it used.
I thought about going this route and then turning the tenon to 1.200 and using shims to adjust myself. Let me know how this setup works out for you.
Your Sparrow should have come with a spacer to take up the gap, mine did. Silencerco should send you one if you don't have it.
