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CZ 455 Precision Trainer vs Vudoo
- Thread starter 83Scout
- Start date
I predict this does not go well. Yer not allowed to ask questions that have been asked several times b4 in this forum.
Anyway....
I have no experince with the Vudoo. Tho I suspect a $4k gun will likely exceed the performance of a $600 gun.
The 455 PT shoots 1/4 - 3/8" groups at 50 yards. I think its about the best bang for the buck in 22rf.
Get a Lilja bbl for the 455, and you'll do even better.
Anyway....
I have no experince with the Vudoo. Tho I suspect a $4k gun will likely exceed the performance of a $600 gun.
The 455 PT shoots 1/4 - 3/8" groups at 50 yards. I think its about the best bang for the buck in 22rf.
Get a Lilja bbl for the 455, and you'll do even better.
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Well, normally I wouldn’t ask something like this. However, it appears I have to garner 100 posts so that I can buy a used barrel or overpriced swag that guys have won at matches. So I figured it’s as good a question as any.
I have Lilja, Hawk Hill and Bartlien barrels. For a 22 that I did in fact pick up used for $600, I’m not seeing where the Vudoo outshoots it. Is the Vudoo cooler? Sure. I’d still put the CZ up against it.
I have Lilja, Hawk Hill and Bartlien barrels. For a 22 that I did in fact pick up used for $600, I’m not seeing where the Vudoo outshoots it. Is the Vudoo cooler? Sure. I’d still put the CZ up against it.
I’ve owned both of these exact rifles. I switched to the Vudoo and have zero regrets.
Honestly, I’m a big CZ fan. Every part of me wanted the CZ to fit the bill for me for NRL 22. My precision trainer was accurate but I still wanted more.. It just seemed like somehow I could squeeze out a little more accuracy but after ammo testing and even a Feddersen Barrel, I just wasn’t seeing quite the performance I wanted. Don’t get me wrong, it was accurate enough that I didn’t feel like accuracy was holding back my NRL22 scores, but I wasn’t totally content and if you arent content with your equipment then something needs to change.
I contemplated swapping to a Lilja but the more I thought about it, the more it seemed to much more logical to just sell it off and get a Vudoo. That is what I did and I am 100% pleased that I did that. I would recommend this: if you are wanting to start shooting NRL22, buy something like a Savage FV-SR or find a good deal on a 455 Varmint and run it. If you are enjoying it and want to get more serious, save up for a Vudoo. If your intention is to buy a Precision Trainer and start upgrading it, just save yourself the time and get a Vudoo to start with.
Honestly, I’m a big CZ fan. Every part of me wanted the CZ to fit the bill for me for NRL 22. My precision trainer was accurate but I still wanted more.. It just seemed like somehow I could squeeze out a little more accuracy but after ammo testing and even a Feddersen Barrel, I just wasn’t seeing quite the performance I wanted. Don’t get me wrong, it was accurate enough that I didn’t feel like accuracy was holding back my NRL22 scores, but I wasn’t totally content and if you arent content with your equipment then something needs to change.
I contemplated swapping to a Lilja but the more I thought about it, the more it seemed to much more logical to just sell it off and get a Vudoo. That is what I did and I am 100% pleased that I did that. I would recommend this: if you are wanting to start shooting NRL22, buy something like a Savage FV-SR or find a good deal on a 455 Varmint and run it. If you are enjoying it and want to get more serious, save up for a Vudoo. If your intention is to buy a Precision Trainer and start upgrading it, just save yourself the time and get a Vudoo to start with.
I can't see *EVER* spending Vudoo kind of money on a 22 RF....well....unless I get to the point I also start my campfires with wads of $100 bills....
LOL. Yeah. I am a bit of a gun whore and like trying them all out, but I agree it is a steep price to pay.
well and now an adjustable stock/lop CZ (457) is currently coming into the picture which is much more in my price range than the Vudoo, which seems to be a work of art.
I had a XLR chassis on my Lilja barrelled 455. It was nice. I sold it to get the 457 MTR, which I'm disapponted with. Usually 8-11mm groups at 50y. That was a dumb move on my part.
Eventually, I will likely put a Lilja bbl on my 457, and see ifit shoots. If not, I'll sell it .
I held the 457 in a Boyd’s stock today. Not too bad at all. I definelty like the shorter throw over my 455. All in all, it’s a pretty sweet rifle. I have the precision trainer and I’ve taken it out to about 450 yards with some friends just messing around. The CZs are sweet 22’s.
I owned both still have Vudoo. Biggest selling feature for me is compatibility with 700 parts including triggers. This allows me to have a replica of my centerfire rifle. Also customer service of Vudoo is top notch. @RAVAGE88 has been stellar to deal with. Kept the Vudoo sold the CZ. No regrets and the Vudoo shoots lights out. Don't get me wrong the CZ was a shooter too but now I have an identical trainer to my centerfire rifles.
I'm curious... can you define "lights out"?
Like....in group size at 50 / 100 yards?
Thanx.
It's more accurate than I am. Holds about 1 MOA at 100 yards with a 10 shot group Which for what I shoot is plenty good.
not quite sure what i'm wading into here because it seems like a partial tongue in cheek / troll thread but here goes...
full disclosure - i don't own a vudoo, have only fondled one at matches. i do own a 455 and am in the process of acquiring a 457 VPT.
like was said above the main selling point of a vudoo is the 700 footprint and aics mag that mimics centerfire rifles. they are dead nuts accurate and you know you are getting top notch equipment. it will be accurate out of the box when you find the ammo it likes and you won't have to worry about that. definitely buy once cry once with this
to me what it boils down to is how much money do you really want to spend? do you want to spend it up front for the vudoo or over time building up a CZ? do you even like building up and tinkering? do you need to mimic a centerfire rig for training or is the 22 just for fun?
can the cz hang with the vudoo - yes, in our series the top of the leaderboard is a cz455 in an mpa chassis with lilja barrel. second place just barely is a vudoo. it is lots of fun to watch those 2 guys go shot for shot at each match.
i'm an average shooter at best. i'm average at building positions at best. i don't have the time or money to shoot centerfire so i'm not worried about creating a training rifle. i can spend half the money, get just about the same results (with me behind the gun), spend the rest on better ammo and have just as much fun.
full disclosure - i don't own a vudoo, have only fondled one at matches. i do own a 455 and am in the process of acquiring a 457 VPT.
like was said above the main selling point of a vudoo is the 700 footprint and aics mag that mimics centerfire rifles. they are dead nuts accurate and you know you are getting top notch equipment. it will be accurate out of the box when you find the ammo it likes and you won't have to worry about that. definitely buy once cry once with this
to me what it boils down to is how much money do you really want to spend? do you want to spend it up front for the vudoo or over time building up a CZ? do you even like building up and tinkering? do you need to mimic a centerfire rig for training or is the 22 just for fun?
can the cz hang with the vudoo - yes, in our series the top of the leaderboard is a cz455 in an mpa chassis with lilja barrel. second place just barely is a vudoo. it is lots of fun to watch those 2 guys go shot for shot at each match.
i'm an average shooter at best. i'm average at building positions at best. i don't have the time or money to shoot centerfire so i'm not worried about creating a training rifle. i can spend half the money, get just about the same results (with me behind the gun), spend the rest on better ammo and have just as much fun.
Also interesting to note, at the NRL22 Championship match the 1st-3rd place, high lady, and high young gun all we're shooting a Vudoo. Approximately 60 of the 120 guns were vudoo.
Now don't get me wrong CZs can shoot. It's a matter of $ you want to spend, choices/flexibility you want and quality of service.
Same question could be asked as to why someone runs a NF ATACR 7-35 on a 22LR rifle and is it needed? Does it out perform an Athlon or any other scope available to run on a 22?
Now don't get me wrong CZs can shoot. It's a matter of $ you want to spend, choices/flexibility you want and quality of service.
Same question could be asked as to why someone runs a NF ATACR 7-35 on a 22LR rifle and is it needed? Does it out perform an Athlon or any other scope available to run on a 22?
My apologies for interrupting the conversation, but 100 posts are only needed to sell overpriced table swag not purchase it.
didn't think of it but it should be included, there aren't a ton of vudoo's shooting the series so it might be a sample size / numbers game but at the same time, if you took those 2 guys and swapped rifles, they would both still be neck and neck.
Yeah, I know. But if it’s the push I need to talk gun stuff with gun guys, then whatever. I’m sure as shit not purchasing “101 posts”. That’s lame.
I’ve only messed with the CTR from Tikka. Tikka rifles are also pretty nice for factory.
Yeah, around 500 for the rifle that can apparently go into the same footprint. This seems like a killer deal.
Shot both today side by side.
Vudoo wins. End of story
Your comparing a factory gun to a custom gun ?
The question you need to ask is
Do I need the best or can I settle for less and be happy?
I knew I would always want the best, i hate not knowing if my gear is my limiting factor.
So I bought the vudoo
Vudoo wins. End of story
Your comparing a factory gun to a custom gun ?
The question you need to ask is
Do I need the best or can I settle for less and be happy?
I knew I would always want the best, i hate not knowing if my gear is my limiting factor.
So I bought the vudoo
Seems like this is pretty good advice! I think I need to stop looking for a 1000 yd range, and switch to .22lr!
I’d have to agree. Ive shot a few matches and shooting a .22 out to 3-350 is a blast! No reloading to deal with, no load development (besides finding out what brand your gun likes) and no headaches at the end of the day. I’d also argue just as challenging on a windy day.
Another consideration, if you get a vudoo, it’s damn near a given that you can pick up sk standard plus, center x, or any other lapua ammo and it will shoot good enough to win nrl22 matches. Or any other prs style match in which you don’t need lot tested accuracy to win.
The CZ (unless custom cut chamber) off the shelf may or may not run the first ammo you buy and if you take 10 different CZ, you’ll probably find a good amount of variance in what ammo each one likes.
I’m sure it exists, but I have yet to see a vudoo that didn’t shoot sk standard plus and center x right out the box (the chambers are cut for lapua unless specified otherwise).
The CZ (unless custom cut chamber) off the shelf may or may not run the first ammo you buy and if you take 10 different CZ, you’ll probably find a good amount of variance in what ammo each one likes.
I’m sure it exists, but I have yet to see a vudoo that didn’t shoot sk standard plus and center x right out the box (the chambers are cut for lapua unless specified otherwise).
i was all fired up and all about getting into centerfire prs. it was super cost prohibitive and finding ranges to get meaningful practice weren't easy to come by. then i stumbled on to "pee wee" prs if you will and have been hooked ever since. i was lucky enough to find a group of guys who were starting up some local matches that ended up turning into an 18 match series for 2019. its fun, laid back but still challenging with the courses of fire being drawn up.
now, i still don't have a true centerfire rifle and i'm spending all my money on rimfire.
I shoot both. They are both fun, but something about doing the 22 matches is really fun. Ballistically you’re shooting the equivalent of 8-900 yards or so, with the 22 vs regular PRS. My buddies and I were dialing roughly 49-52 moa for 350 yards. Of course it’s not exactly the same but it is still an awesome feeling hitting a fairly small target with a 22, in the wind, that far away. All the same postional firing and fundementals used. Lots of fun.
I love my Vudoo, I’ve been shooting Wolf match through it which is good enough for me @$40/brick for practice.. I zero at 30yds and rarely go past 150yds, most of the time it’s 50-100 yds at 1.5 MOA dots off my back porch? So when I’m shooting at 100yds in a 10mph full-value, I’m pretending I’m shooting my Creed at 600yds because my wind calls are pretty much the same and so forth, I think that’s more important (for me) than stretching the .22lr waayyy out there and having a janky 3.2 hold on wind that nowhere near matches what you’re gonna be holding in East Coast match.. I feel like I’m wasting ammo at that point.. Sorry I started rambling, one thing nice about a Vudoo tho, is you can buy a barreled action swap it into a stock off another rifle you have laying around, throw an M5 metal in it, and be up and shooting.. Everything is interchangeable with it’s 700 footprint.. One could piece a nice Vudoo together just watching the PX here!
I loved my CZ455 & MPA chassis w/Timney trigger etc. It was great, and I had no issues with it at all. It shot really nice groups at 50 and 100. I shot a buddy's v22 a few months ago and was pretty surprised how much I like it. The next day I had one on the way from Altus. I have no regrets about the change. Sure it's a lot of money, and people are all to happy to let you know that fact. I just tell them "Good thing it's not your money, right?" or "Maybe for you!" (if the person is being a bit more of an asshole than I think is necessary - or my mood and I feel like giving it back to them - and yes, it's a lot of money for me too haha).
I went the Tikka T1x in a Bravo chassis. Action and trigger are very good. Sub $1500 for everything including scope, rings and Atlas (not the .22 Takedown). I did buy the Scope/rings and Atlas used. ?
Where to NRL22 in Colorado? Denver Metro preferably. Thanks. Sorry for hijacking your post count thread. ?
Where to NRL22 in Colorado? Denver Metro preferably. Thanks. Sorry for hijacking your post count thread. ?
Haha yeah, people can be annoying. I may have to try one out. A buddy won one at a 22 finale last year and they are pretty sweet.
See this link and scroll down a little bit:
See this link and scroll down a little bit:
Thank you good sir. ?
I had a CZ 455 and I have scored pretty good on the 6x5. Couple of things about it annoy the hell out of me. It sits in a Xray, there is no magwell, it is annoying trying to get the mag inserted. Sometimes I damage the lead on the fist round. I sold it and a few other guns I don't shoot to fund the vudoo. I went down the road of contemplating putting a new barrel on it, etc. By the time I would be done upgrading it, I would have had 1800-2000 into it. Good luck getting that back when you try to sell it. There is a guy on here that has a DJ built gun in a chassis. He has nearly 3k into it as I estimate. He is asking 1900 and has been on here for at least a year. Really nice gun, bug holes, etc. I see guys losing 200-300 on their vudoos when they go to sell them. I will take my chances with the vudoo.
I also wanted to know if the rounds going off are my fault or the guns. With the CZ, I wasn't sure. With the V22, I can be certain its not the gun. To each his own I guess.
I also wanted to know if the rounds going off are my fault or the guns. With the CZ, I wasn't sure. With the V22, I can be certain its not the gun. To each his own I guess.
I have both - CZ-455 "Tacticool" in an MDT chassis and Vudoo in MPA chassis. The CZ is a capable platform but not quite up to the Vudoo in terms of raw accuracy. What others have said above is true - with the CZ, I had to find what it liked wrt ammo, and I always wondered if fliers arose from me, the ammo, or the rifle. Now, after shooting a couple thousand rounds of everything from CCI SV to Lapua Midas+ out of the Vudoo and almost twice that much from the CZ, I know the rifle is not a variable anymore, the ammo is far less of a variable, and the shooter is the most likely source of errant shots.
Here's where the Vudoo is, in my experience, leaving the CZ further behind: performance at range over 100 yards. Whereas the two rifles may produce quite comparable groups at 50 yards, I'm seeing more separation at 100, more so at 150, and so on. I've gotten successive hits on a 12" plate at 400 yards with the Vudoo and SK Rifle Match. I've never even attempted it with the CZ; hits on a 12" plate at 300 are iffy enough.
As for "justifying" the cost of the Vudoo: pfft. There are always those who disparage spending top dollar on anything. I took the time to learn what goes into the Vudoo. It's like anything else... the cost curve rises almost exponentially as features and performance increase. I see guys at the range quite often with 10/22s, CZs and RPRRs and buckets'a'bulkbullets blasting away at 3" targets at 50 or 100 yards and they get all happy when they hit one. I learned quickly not to point out that they could be regularly hitting targets half that size with better ammo. No way, they say, I ainta'gonna spend no five'r'ten dollahs fo' no stinkin' .22.
As soon as the next shooting toy appears on my radar, I'll probably sell the CZ to fund it. I keep hoping my son will get the bug to shoot rimfire more; he has his own 455 so I may keep the chassis for him and sell just the "Tacticool..."
I drove Porsche and BMW cars a lot of years, and I took my share of heat for being afflicted with the "car gene" which causes one to spend stupid money on "transportation" ("Hey, ya know the difference between a Porsche and a porcupine? The Porsche's pricks are on the inside!"). The performance was worth it to me. So it is with the Vudoo - and it's a one-time expense. No $600 oil changes...
Here's where the Vudoo is, in my experience, leaving the CZ further behind: performance at range over 100 yards. Whereas the two rifles may produce quite comparable groups at 50 yards, I'm seeing more separation at 100, more so at 150, and so on. I've gotten successive hits on a 12" plate at 400 yards with the Vudoo and SK Rifle Match. I've never even attempted it with the CZ; hits on a 12" plate at 300 are iffy enough.
As for "justifying" the cost of the Vudoo: pfft. There are always those who disparage spending top dollar on anything. I took the time to learn what goes into the Vudoo. It's like anything else... the cost curve rises almost exponentially as features and performance increase. I see guys at the range quite often with 10/22s, CZs and RPRRs and buckets'a'bulkbullets blasting away at 3" targets at 50 or 100 yards and they get all happy when they hit one. I learned quickly not to point out that they could be regularly hitting targets half that size with better ammo. No way, they say, I ainta'gonna spend no five'r'ten dollahs fo' no stinkin' .22.
As soon as the next shooting toy appears on my radar, I'll probably sell the CZ to fund it. I keep hoping my son will get the bug to shoot rimfire more; he has his own 455 so I may keep the chassis for him and sell just the "Tacticool..."
I drove Porsche and BMW cars a lot of years, and I took my share of heat for being afflicted with the "car gene" which causes one to spend stupid money on "transportation" ("Hey, ya know the difference between a Porsche and a porcupine? The Porsche's pricks are on the inside!"). The performance was worth it to me. So it is with the Vudoo - and it's a one-time expense. No $600 oil changes...
honest question, do you think the separation is due to tighter manufacturing tolerances along with higher quality barrels? the way i THINK i understand it. if you put to comparable barrels (say a bartlein on a cz and a vudoo) wouldn't it boil down to ammo selection and shooter ability? so in theory a cz with an aftermarket match barrel should be able to accomplish that same feat if the shooter and ammo are up to correct? help me see what else i might be missing here.
Nice gun. You should bed it and see what it does. I'm a one bolt action 22 kind of guy, so I sold mine off...but plenty of people have multiple 22s...you could keep it and get the v22
For me, it's more than barrel accuracy.
After accuracy, the next big thing is the trigger. The Vudoo will take any Remington 700 drop-in trigger; I am completely satisfied with the Timney Calvin Elite single-stage. I'm kind of a trigger snob and like them light. I have a YoDave kit in my 455 which gets trigger down to under 2 pounds, relatively decent and creep-free. But nowhere near the 8-10 ounces I prefer in my competition rifles, and the YoDave kit introduces its own issue: the lighter you go, the more the bolt is likely to pull (or fall) right out of the rifle. I have a buddy who has an exceptionally accurate 455 (he says putting a SiCo Sparrow can on it made a significant difference) - he has his down to about a pound with the YoDave kit, but he sunk a stop screw setup into the stock to keep the bolt from pulling out.
Then there is the feel of the bolt running in the receiver. This can be greatly enhanced in the 455 by running the bolt a couple hundred times with automotive buffing compound or jewelers rouge on the bearing surfaces. But it's still not going to have the fine tolerances of the Vudoo, and you still have to buy an aftermarket bolt handle unless you like the tiny toy .22 stock handle.
Magazines. Big beefy AICS footprint versus itty bitty .22 magazine. And for my increasingly arthritic hands, having the follower depress button on the side of the mag is nice, especially when trying to feed the bacon-grease-dipped Lapua rounds with sweaty hands.
Finally, the choice of stocks or chassis - any Remington 700-footprint stock works. Of course, the major chassis/stock vendors offer their wares for the popular 455.... but looky there, CZ done gone an' stopped making the 455; now we have the 457, with a whole new footprint. How long before the most popular stocks/chassis appear in the new footprint, what about resale on the "obsolete" 455...
So, yes, you could add aftermarket everything to a 455 and have a rifle that's pretty doggone close to a Vudoo. But at what cost differential? How much is your time and effort worth? Many of us may enjoy the pursuit of enhancing a 455 to top-rung accuracy - for me, not so much. Unpack the Vudoo, stick on the optic of choice, and go shoot. Done. And if you do have a question or issue, I can tell you from experience that Vudoo customer support sets the bar as high as it gets.
Here are some 50 yard and 100 yard groups with one of my Vudoos. Fired at an outdoor range , in different days , with Lapua center X ammo.
I have 3 CZ 455s and they shoot well, but not as well as either of my 2 vudoos. The CZ is a good gun for the money , the Vudoo is the best you can buy at any price.
I have 3 CZ 455s and they shoot well, but not as well as either of my 2 vudoos. The CZ is a good gun for the money , the Vudoo is the best you can buy at any price.
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The CZ 455 will typically shoot in 0.7s at 50Y. Around 1” if you’re unlucky, between 0.4 to 0.5s if you’re lucky. In the 0.3s and below if you’re extremely lucky.
To guarantee good accuracy, you’ll have to budget in a match barrel or even go full custom (bolt/ignition work, bedding, etc…).
At that point, the other alternative is to buy an Anschutz that would have a similar cost, but a better fit and finish, and a much better resell value.
If you’re truly considering spending $4k+ on a rimfire (since you’re mentioning Vudoo), there are different options…..But the CZ 455 is not one of those options.
To guarantee good accuracy, you’ll have to budget in a match barrel or even go full custom (bolt/ignition work, bedding, etc…).
At that point, the other alternative is to buy an Anschutz that would have a similar cost, but a better fit and finish, and a much better resell value.
If you’re truly considering spending $4k+ on a rimfire (since you’re mentioning Vudoo), there are different options…..But the CZ 455 is not one of those options.
Yes, with a J Allen chassis, max trigger upgrade, a pile of extra mags, etc, you can spend $4k or more on a Vudoo. But the barreled action is $1770, and you can stock and trigger it for as much or as little as desired.
Mine, ordered directly from Vudoo with MPA BA Comp chassis, Timney Calvin Elite trigger, and three mags - a midrange upgrade set - spec'ed out around the $3k mark. Get a cheaper chassis or stock, stay away from big trigger upgrade, and order only a couple of extra mags and you're looking at $2500 or so. Prices are on the Vudoo website.
By comparison, my CZ-455 "Tacticool" upgraded with MDT LSS-22 chassis, Magpul PRS buttstock, YoDave trigger kit, and DIP picatinney rail spec'ed out at a bit over $1100. If various chassis/stocks are found on sale or used, the price drops.
One other story on my Vudoo. I ordered a 20" Ace barrel in Kukri profile. The barrel actually measures just under 19." I thought maybe a mistake had been made, so I called about it. What I learned (and hopefully I'm reporting this accurately): The build started with a 20" blank - but they do whatever magic it takes to find the narrowest part of the bore near the blank's end and cut/crown/thread the muzzle at that point, because that procedure, while relatively expensive, yields optimum accuracy in any barrel (I read this elsewhere as well as being told by Vudoo). If I was unhappy, I was told, they would replace the barrel with one that was 20" long. Nope. I'm good. There's more to accuracy than the barrel.
@DownhillFromHere - not even going to bother quoting that post but simply say THANK YOU for your response. its greatly appreciated.
i'm smart enough to realize i still have a lot to learn about this game AND smart enough to realize that i'm not a good enough shooter yet to notice some of those little differences - especially ignition and bolt issues.
i'm smart enough to realize i still have a lot to learn about this game AND smart enough to realize that i'm not a good enough shooter yet to notice some of those little differences - especially ignition and bolt issues.
From one trigger snob to another. My V22 has a Trigger Tech Diamond set to 4 oz. My CZ457MTR has a YoDave kit that brings it down to 9 oz but feels like 6. The only thing that I didn't like about my 457 was the bolt knob. That was fixed with an AREA 419 type knob. It looks funky but feels and works GREAT. I shot this group of 30 rounds at 50 yards with no tuner. That flier was all my fault and my forth shot, not first.
I just got my V22 on May 29th. The group below is 10 shots at 100 yards with no tuner. The group looks bigger because of the lead splatter. I like working on guns but not to the point of replacing major parts like bbl and triggers. Hell....if I did that my 457 would not be a 457 any longer. The last photo shows what I am willing to do. That is refine stock parts to eek out the most performance that I can get from them. that is a trigger sear from a Ruger RPR rim fire.
I was just asked how I justify having all of my .22s. They are all different and I like them all for different reasons. Your dead on about the "increasingly arthritic hands"
It may be just me but my Vudoo may save me money in the long run. I wont need to buy half a dozen guns looking for the best gun. My option to the Vudoo was a 4600.00 FWB and it is a totally different kind of animal.
As for ammo.... all of my guns like SK red and SK yellow at 65.00 and 50.00 a brick. I have Midas plus but don't see the need for it yet. It is about 150.00
Sadly, if I sold anything, some of the first to go would be my two 1416 Annie's. They have 6 oz. triggers, but I don't love the way the action functions.
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