Sidearms & Scatterguns CZ P-10 vs Steyr M/L9

[BytorJr]

Thinking way in the future here, if at all. Can anybody compare in moderate detail if they've had experience with both of these? I've always thought the Steyr was so space-age 1950's characature, it was actually cool. But I'm curious to know 1) muzzle flip between two, 2) trigger pull weight, creep & break, and reset length, 3) overall quality.

Just toying with something a little off the beaten path for fun, maybe nightstand at best. Don't need it, but hey, may as well have information. I was toying with a PPQ M1, but e since I like paddle mag release but my understanding is the PPQ has a lot more flip than these two. So, since it would be more for fun-gun purpose, the mag release isn't make or break in this case.

Thanks for any discussion - purely passing my boredom now....boredom gets expensive if one isn't careful.

 

[308pirate]

If you want a polymer CZ, get a P-09.

I tried the P-10. Gave it a good run of over 4K rounds. I'm going back to the P-09.

The P-10's grip, which everyone gushes about because they shot 15 rounds through it, sucks when you do real work with it. Like shooting a whole winter's worth of indoor USPSA matches.

 

[BytorJr]

If you want a polymer CZ, get a P-09.

I tried the P-10. Gave it a good run of over 4K rounds. I'm going back to the P-09.

The P-10's grip, which everyone gushes about because they shot 15 rounds through it, sucks when you do real work with it. Like shooting a whole winter's worth of indoor USPSA matches.

Is the Omega trigger then somewhat like LEM? Provided you go the DA/SA route which if it's like "normal" DA/SA would be a no-go for me.
Also, what's the deal with the grip? Angle or texture? That P-09 look like a polymer 75 at least from the slide "thinness."

 

[308pirate]

The Omega trigger is straight up DA/SA. Nothing like LEM

The P-09 is nothing like a polymer 75. You might be thinking of the SP-01 Phantom.

The P-10's grip is too damned small and the sides are rounded. I need a flat sided grip with more side surface area.

Also, the P-10's slide doesn't run inside the frame like every other CZ so you can't place the support hand as high on the grip as you can with every other CZ

I've also come to dislike striker fired triggers with a passion. Give me DA/SA every day and twice on Sunday. But then I grew up shooting revolvers so the DA trigger is absolutely no handicap.

 

[Asiparks]

current crop of plastic- also had assorted glock and an XDM-
first up- the Steyr has been updated to the A2- now has interchangeable back and side grip panels ala VP9, a proper grip texture and a funnelled mag well as well as a serialized FCU like the Sig320. I've not handled the new one, but it sounds like it fixes my few grumbles with the Steyr- Smallish, slippery grip and slowish reloads.

Only handled the P10- went for the P09 instead- side by side the 9 just feels better in my hand- your mits will be different.

I will say the Steyr A1 is a great unhurried range gun- the low bore and general ergos work very well for me- it instinctively points very well, the pyramid sights are intuitive and it shoots very well, recoil is very well handled - it's pointability and quick recovery make double taps and rapid-ish fire easy and enjoyable. The trigger is fairly light on mine- small bit of travel, bit of creep, then a sort of soft break and indistinct reset- not a great trigger, but nothing that you could blame for not hitting where you're pointing. I also think it's the best looking too- it's just a little bit odd, which I like.

The VP9 and PPQ are even in my book; I like the VP9 grips better, I use the Large size, the PPQ large insert has a bit that goes all the way up into the tang which doesn't fit me well- The VP9 has just the larger palmswell which I prefer. Again my hands vs yours...
Triggers are slightly different but I can't say one is better. They shoot well but are a bit "flippier" than the Steyr.

The M&P I really like- I have it in 9 and 45, both with Apex triggers. I sold my FNX in 45 and stuck my Osprey and light on the 45 and it sits in my nightstand. It points well, recoil is well controlled and the Apex triggers have a good tactile break and reset.

P09 -yeah.... really enjoy shooting this one- It has the Cajun Pro package which improves the trigger a bit- not sure it's a massive as the price would suggest, but there you go. But this gun just feels good, shoots well....Think I'm going to get the & and bung a red dot on it....

All this is very subjective, and the new Steyr A2 may upend my favorites....

 

[308pirate]

Only handled the P10- went for the P09 instead- side by side the 9 just feels better in my hand- your mits will be different.

I gave both a good shakedown. As of today I've put 6276 rounds through my P-09 (since May of last year) and 4670 since last November through my P-10F.

Both objectively (splits) and subjectively (sight tracking, doubles, bill drills) the P-09 just beats the 10 for me.

I bought the P-10F Optics Ready to be my Carry Optics pistol but last week I sent the P-09's slide to get cut for an RMR and will transfer it from the -10 to the -09.

And today I traded my EDC P-01 for a P-07, which will also get cut for another RMR.

 

[BytorJr]

Thanks guys. I know I shoot a VP9 well. The PPQ has my interest because it too has the paddle release (at least M1 if you can find one). Steyr MF is about impossible to find and I heard none till June. Smart person would stick with same manual of arms.....which may be what I do. If only HK would make a P365 sized gun . Again, this would be if and win I recover from the COVID stock losses. Right now I need optics mounts more

 

[308pirate]

Real men shoot pistols with hammers

 

[BytorJr]

Real men shoot pistols with hammers

I checked my safe and downstairs....yup. I'm still a man. Though one who had his arse kicked by digging 6 holes for plants though solid clay, planting and putting pine straw all over the place. I guess I could get my lazy ass out to the range still .

 

[308pirate]

I guess I could get my lazy ass out to the range still .

You haven't gone shooting today? Turn in your man card.

 

[BytorJr]

I know I'll try to earn it back tomorrow...Sunday's my usual day anyway. Tried last week but they were doing work on the road to the pistol bays. It needed it as it was getting rather soft and squishy. After doing all the flower beds front and back and planting all the new plants, removing old ones, digging clay...I earned something...not sure what except a stiff back and hamstrings. Sadly, my "range" table is also now my "office" table. So, I'll be tailgating tomorrow unless we have more tornadic activity like last Sunday.

 

[Choid]

The A2-MF Steyr is pretty nice, but it is a huge fucking gun. I shoot it well, but couldn't possible conceal it. I've had my ups and downs with the P10c. Shoots great, but the trigger bite is annoying, and the manufacturing tolerances suck, so aftermarket triggers don't really work in two p10s the same. I hate the VP9. I find it moves around more than any other gun in my hand. My preference, after much experimentation, is the Sig X-carry in the striker space. Oddly enough for its shape, it shoots unbelievably soft and flat. The trigger is nice, and I like not having a dingus. Trigger control on it is slightly different than most, but once you figure it out, it is extremely accurate. I've never really liked sigs, but the X-series are the tits.

 

[308pirate]

 

[Asiparks]

The A2-MF Steyr is pretty nice, but it is a huge fucking gun. ...SNIP.....

Take it this was the full size ? There's supposed to be compact and sub compact versions along soon..Compared to the P10, ( forgetting barrel/grip length differences ), was it that much fatter ?

 

[Choid]

Take it this was the full size ? There's supposed to be compact and sub compact versions along soon..Compared to the P10, ( forgetting barrel/grip length differences ), was it that much fatter ?

From what I was told, there won't be a SC, just mid and compact, with the frame height (capacity) being the same and the slide and frame length varying. Same as the original lineup. That said, Steyr's biggest problem is that they never do anything in a timely manner. They promise for years before delivering. And yes, the grip itself is just ginormous. I like most everything about it, but it clearly is a duty pistol without any thought to concealed carry.

 

[Choid]

OK, so I am going to eat my own poop on this. After reading 308Pirate's comment about the grip on the p10C, I messed around with my VP9 grip, putting in the flattest side panels and largest backstrap. It didn't intuitively feel most comfortable, but set up like that, almost all muzzle jump and bounce is gone, and it becomes a really nice gun.

 

[308pirate]

OK, so I am going to eat my own poop on this. After reading 308Pirate's comment about the grip on the p10C, I messed around with my VP9 grip, putting in the flattest side panels and largest backstrap. It didn't intuitively feel most comfortable, but set up like that, almost all muzzle jump and bounce is gone, and it becomes a really nice gun.

It's almost too funny to realize that all these attempts to make a pistol grip that conforms every curve of the human hand results in a grip that "looks" ergonomic and "feels" great but falls completely apart when you try to run the pistol hard (as in shooting quickly under control).

I mean, look at this picture. If you go by internet consensus the P-09 would be the least chosen. Just see how "unergonomic" it looks....it's just two flat sides and a little curve on the back. Look at the others, they FEEL great at the gun store counter! Then you shoot them and go hhhmmmmm.........maybe Glock did figure something out with its grip shape.

The only thing lacking from the P-07 and P-09 grip is effective texture coverage. Something that takes 5 minutes to fix with grip tape or 30 minutes with a soldering iron.

 

[Choid]

One thing CZ does right, and it is the same thing that makes the x-series from sig so shootable, is how well the front trigger guard undercut matches the rear of the gun. The gun is going to pivot on one of those two spots in a way, and it is always going to be on the less advantageous of the two. That is what kills the ability to control recoil in many guns. The M&P there is the best example. There is almost no way to profitably use both the front and rear of that grip.

 

[BytorJr]

OK, so I am going to eat my own poop on this. After reading 308Pirate's comment about the grip on the p10C, I messed around with my VP9 grip, putting in the flattest side panels and largest backstrap. It didn't intuitively feel most comfortable, but set up like that, almost all muzzle jump and bounce is gone, and it becomes a really nice gun.

Interesting. I'll have to play around with flat sided. More like a USP or P2000 then.