Sidearms & Scatterguns CZ S2 Compact

[Gustav7]

Because physics and chance and all that stuff.

I've seen a few too many folks on video having bad oops things when some unexpected failure of holster, clothing, debris, sear malfunction, and a host of other things that never seem likely just happen to cause things to go bang at the wrong time.
Including the supposed well trained professionals and well trained and practiced competition shooters and such.

I think you've been watching the Sig P320 videos lol. Glocks, CZ, M&P, Canik.... have no recorded history that I'm aware of where that happens to stock guns. Now if some dude does his own spring job and takes out the trigger safety and makes a 1lb striker trigger with no creep, then sure maybe. But I'm more confident about reasonable triggers on striker guns than any modern gun in existence.

A DA/SA pistol for example that is decocked and has a manual safety turned on is pretty much well nigh impossible to go off accidentally even if a whole bunch of things go wrong and it's bouncing down the stairs or a pile of rocks or such.

DA/SA decocked no safety is the next step down.

What DA/SA you running where you can engage the safety with it decocked? My S2 only allows safety engagement when the pistol is cocked, same with AR's. The Decocker P01/SP01 have no safety lever as the decocker IS the safety lever.

Also you can train all you want, but it's never going to be the exact same as when your body and brain goes into overdrive when you feel your life is being directly threatened and sometimes fine motor skills on a perfect grip or such during a draw might be an issue.

I'm plenty well practiced and can easily shoot everything from Glocks to my DA/SA manual safety pistols.
I just personally feel safer with at least one extra level of protection than simply the trigger.

Now I fully realize that I'm in the minority these days and all the cool folks are all preaching striker fire no safety as the one and only truth.

Sure I guess but that has nothing to do with striker guns. If you're in a gunfight and fumbling so bad that a striker gun is an issue then so is manipulating any sort of safety, or anything approaching a good sight picture. The whole point of quality training is so the brain can safely handle and shoot the firearm subconsciously. And I've been in quite a few, so I promise I'm not just spouting off.

At the end of the day, you can do whatever you want, I won't judge you for that. But I'll definitely make it known to anyone else reading that I think your premise is wrong lol. Striker systems are pretty well proven at this point.

 

[W54/XM-388]

What DA/SA you running where you can engage the safety with it decocked? My S2 only allows safety engagement when the pistol is cocked, same with AR's. The Decocker P01/SP01 have no safety lever as the decocker IS the safety lever.

Pretty much the entire H&K line of hammer fired safety equipped pistols from the USP series, the P30 series and the HK45 series.
USP 3 position lever series, push down all the way to decock then flip up all the way to engage safety.
P30 S series, push decock button to decock then flip up safety.
HK45 3 position lever series, push down all the way to decock then flip up all the way to engage safety.

Leave it to the Germans to demand something be made double extra safe...

If you don't believe me, when you are next in town, let me know so you can come by for a visit and you can try them them all out for fun.

And yes, I also do have Sigs and CZs that like you said either don't allow safety on when decocked or have a decocker as the safety system.

Glocks, CZ, M&P, Canik.... have no recorded history that I'm aware of where that happens to stock guns. Now if some dude does his own spring job and takes out the trigger safety and makes a 1lb striker trigger with no creep, then sure maybe. But I'm more confident about reasonable triggers on striker guns than any modern gun in existence.

First remember I clearly started by saying "when some unexpected failure of holster, clothing, debris"

Like 1 second on a search engine:

Glock goes off in holster

www.firearmstalk.com

Mechanical failure of the holster, not something you expect but again, can happen.

or:

[WARNING GRAPHIC] Instructor Shoots Himself in the Leg While Holstering

A firearm instructor shot himself in the leg after investigating a noise in an alley behind his house. Let's take a closer look and learn from his mistakes.

www.usacarry.com

Again, mechanical obstruction of the trigger area of the holster by a shirt when trying unadvisedly to holster under stress.


I'm not saying you are in anyway wrong.
Rather that for some, having an extra margin in the rare case of circumstances causing pressure to be applied to a trigger when it was not meant to be done is something folks feel comfortable with.

Now there is some debate on the Sig P320 series line on if the design is slightly less safe than the Glock and others due to the specifics of the exact rest / pressure / activate sequence and internal design. For me on that series, those very rare and not fully explained chances are why I only get the safety equipped versions. From what I've read accidents with Glocks generally only happen when something unintentionally applies pressure to the trigger.

 

[W54/XM-388]

But I'll definitely make it known to anyone else reading that I think your premise is wrong lol. Striker systems are pretty well proven at this point.

You are quite possibly very correct.

However let me ask you this:

The last big US army contract for service pistols, the one that SIG won, specifically required the pistol to have a manual safety.
Hence why Sig made the P320 variants with a manual safety.
Rumour has it that Glock also had a manual safety equipped Glock pistol but lost out on price. Had they won the contract, most likely they would have made manual safety equipped pistols available for purchase.

So while you may be very correct that I'm wrong in my premise.
I'm far from the only one that's wrong; considering the US military demanded and accepted a manual safety equipped, striker fired pistol as the main service pistol instead of saving money with a no safety version for a bit cheaper unit cost. I'm sure they had a list of reasons, even if they were wrong.

 

[308pirate]

You are quite possibly very correct.

However let me ask you this:

The last big US army contract for service pistols, the one that SIG won, specifically required the pistol to have a manual safety.
Hence why Sig made the P320 variants with a manual safety.
Rumour has it that Glock also had a manual safety equipped Glock pistol but lost out on price. Had they won the contract, most likely they would have made manual safety equipped pistols available for purchase.

So while you may be very correct that I'm wrong in my premise.
I'm far from the only one that's wrong; considering the US military demanded and accepted a manual safety equipped, striker fired pistol as the main service pistol instead of saving money with a no safety version for a bit cheaper unit cost. I'm sure they had a list of reasons, even if they were wrong.

@Gustav7 and I are military veterans. Him Army and me Navy. He was a member of the 75th Ranger Regiment. I was a part of one of the most demanding technical disciplines in the US Armed Forces (the Navy's nuclear engineering program).

We don't give a flying fuck about why big Army wanted a manual safety on the M17 pistol. Why? Because a shit ton of what military procurement wants and does is based not on reason but on fudd lore from staff fucks who've never had actually had to use the hardware for real.

When and where did you serve again?

 

[W54/XM-388]

When and where did you serve again?

It's unfortunate that I appear to have perhaps somehow gotten you upset by simply stating my viewpoint and the reasons behind it.
I have not said you were wrong in your opinions or your conclusions.

But really, using that tired retort line, really?

I've previously made it very clear that I did not chose a career in the armed forces.
You state that you chose a career of being in the armed forces, that is your decision and your choice.
Both are valid choices and choosing one or the other does not intrinsically make someone better than someone else.

I don't doubt your experience and have never said I question your experience and logic.
I simply stated my reasons for my preference and how that even if I am wrong in my preferences, I'm not the only one with those preferences.

Apparently procurement for as you put it "big Army" had preferences as well even if they are not correct.
They could very well be wrong in their preferences as I could also be very wrong in my preferences.
Obviously many people that "when and where served" as you like to put it, were issued a pistol with a manual safety, carried it and were able to use it, regardless of if it's an inferior system or not. That does not mean you are wrong, it simply means other opinions exist.
So it goes to reason that many who made a career choice to be in the armed forces would have their pistol experience be that, if they were not in some more specialized job.

Perhaps we could agree that in you and your friends' opinion, based on your experiences, your knowledge and your own personal usage you are confident in stating that a striker fired pistol with no manual safety is the best possible pistol design?

Then perhaps we could also agree that while various manual safety systems may be unnecessary, or not a good idea, or possibly a bad idea, they are none the less still at least somewhat popular for a number of reasons, even if perhaps most of those reasons simply boil down to it makes some folks feel more comfortable to have an added margin of safety, regardless of if that's real or just perceived?

I own plenty of striker fired pistols with no manual safety, from Glock and H&K and eventually others.
I can use them safely.
I have one as my vehicle gun because it's in a static location in a holster and unlikely to have anything cause the trigger to be pressed inadvertently.

However, for me personally I don't feel comfortable having them as my daily concealed carry, and it may be a long time or ever before I do.
Similarly, to how I don't feel comfortable with a cocked and locked hammer fired target trigger pistol as my daily concealed carry.
That doesn't mean I don't think you and @Gustav7 are correct. That doesn't mean that I don't value and respect your experience and knowledge.

For example on the CZ P10F that you like very much, which I was asking about compared to the P09 I'd actually probably be interested in buying one sometime and shooting it, since I don't own a CZ striker fired pistol, even if for my own reasons I don't feel comfortable with it as my daily concealed carry.

I also freely admit and tell people often, that if you are not going to train a lot with a manual safety, it may be a bad idea for you to have one as you might get nothing when you are expecting a bang at a time your life could depend on it.

Does that work for you?

 

[ECK]

I’m a CZ fanboi, but not I’m fanatical about them. I own and shoot other pistols as well. So color me intrigued when the S2Compact came out, but like some of you guys I find myself dragging my feet on getting one.

Since 2018 I’ve been competing with a couple Shadow 2’s milled and setup for Carry Optics division. My triggers are all DIY’ed with CGW parts and springs and are a nice smooth 6 lbs DA and 2 lbs SA. I’ve gotten them lower with lighter springs but I didn’t like what it did to the SA trigger pull and it also meant I needed to use Federal primers -and for the last few years I use whatever I can buy. And that is even with the extended firing pin and reduced FP spring installed. And yes, I’m aware of what happened in NY State a few years ago when a S2 with lightened springs was dropped on a concrete floor.

Prior to the S2s coming out I competed with a pair of SP-01 Shadows, setup pretty similarly except they were iron sighted with Bomar rears (thank you CZ Custom shop) for Production division. I also had a 75 Shadow (similar to the SP-01 Shadow but with short dust cover) and that was my IDPA SSP gun.

I also have a P10C that I sometimes EDC but also competed with it for a few months. I tend to shoot all my pistols in a USPSA match for a month or three to test them out, even my carry guns. I don’t shoot IDPA very much anymore, but when I do its with my EDC guns.

So getting to the S2 Compact, other than a cool-to-have pistol the frugal (and sometimes annoyingly practical) part of me just doesn’t see the point of it. As a competition gun there are better ones out there. Ditto as a carry gun. About the only appeal it has for me is as a fanboi collector’s gun (and I readily admit I are one). It probably shoots really well, probably has a good trigger -one you can easily DIY into a great trigger (and I prob already have all the parts and springs in my parts kit), and I bet the ergo’s are similar to the S2 which is to say it’ll fit my hand nicely.

I’m in the middle of some long gun builds right now, but every now and then I think about getting another CZ -hence my interest in the S2C. But for various reasons I’m leaning more towards the P-01 since I too would prefer my EDC hammer-fired guns to have a decocker, and I’m perfectly comfortable with manually decocking the S2 having done it a million times at the range. Or maybe the P-07 (same reason).

 

[kriller134]

I agree with @308pirate with the whole decocker on a carry pistol. I pinky roll my sp01/S2 to get it into DA when shooting comps, but would never do that in a non comp environment.

 

[308pirate]

I just can't take seriously someone who takes one company's (SIG) mistake (P320) and assumes that all other companies making SFA pistols made substantially the same mistake.

Add to that it seems our scaredy cat has no clue that all modern SFA pistols have multiple passive safeties and that some brands use fully cocked strikers while others (Glock and CZ that I know of) have partially cocked strikers.

I wonder what else he's scared of. His cars suddenly losing their brakes because of some coincidence of tolerance stacking?

LOL

 

[RFutch]

Old thread I know but I was kinda considering a S2C until I read this thread. I think I'm gonna go with a P01 and just make a few upgrades instead.

Question on the P01. Does anyone make some springs just to lighten the trigger pull for DA to make it more shootable? Not looking for race gun trigger job just something that will make it lighter and more usable without sacrificing reliability for carry. I see Cajun has some different springs but I can't get their Contact Us page to work.

 

[Kadams1563]

Old thread I know but I was kinda considering a S2C until I read this thread. I think I'm gonna go with a P01 and just make a few upgrades instead.

Question on the P01. Does anyone make some springs just to lighten the trigger pull for DA to make it more shootable? Not looking for race gun trigger job just something that will make it lighter and more usable without sacrificing reliability for carry. I see Cajun has some different springs but I can't get their Contact Us page to work.

CGW trigger packages are very nice. I have a CGW P01 that I did myself and it’s very nice. I did the more competition focused trigger kit but they have a carry option as well I believe.

Thays weird their page isn’t working. Try and call them they have always had great customer service IMO.

 

[MadDuner]

CGW trigger packages are very nice. I have a CGW P01 that I did myself and it’s very nice. I did the more competition focused trigger kit but they have a carry option as well I believe.

Thays weird their page isn’t working. Try and call them they have always had great customer service IMO.

Even the defensive carry package is a tremendous improvement.

 

[RFutch]

If I have to I will go with the Defensive carry package but I dont know if I want to spend the money for all of that. I would rather just swap a couple springs if thats possible and save some money just to make the pull lighter?

 

[MadDuner]

If I have to I will go with the Defensive carry package but I dont know if I want to spend the money for all of that. I would rather just swap a couple springs if thats possible and save some money just to make the pull lighter?

I'm sure you can just order the springs to see how much it changes it.

 

[308pirate]

Old thread I know but I was kinda considering a S2C until I read this thread. I think I'm gonna go with a P01 and just make a few upgrades instead.

Question on the P01. Does anyone make some springs just to lighten the trigger pull for DA to make it more shootable? Not looking for race gun trigger job just something that will make it lighter and more usable without sacrificing reliability for carry. I see Cajun has some different springs but I can't get their Contact Us page to work.

Get a blue 13 lb hammer spring and call it a day. That's what's on my P-07 and P-09. It lights off every primer known to man while providing an easy 7 lb DA pull.

The CGW black 11.5 lb hammer spring in my Shadow 2 with a CGW reduced power firing pin spring and OEM firing pin fires every primer known to man.

 

[RFutch]

Get a blue 13 lb hammer spring and call it a day. That's what's on my P-07 and P-09. It lights off every primer known to man while providing an easy 7 lb DA pull.

The CGW black 11.5 lb hammer spring in my Shadow 2 with a CGW reduced power firing pin spring and OEM firing pin fires every primer known to man.

This is exactly what I was looking for thanks. I should prob do the same for my P09 even though I never shoot it DA.

 

[308pirate]

I should prob do the same for my P09 even though I never shoot it DA.

Real men start hammer down