Sidearms & Scatterguns CZ Shadow 2 - Central AL

[PBWalsh]

Hi Y’all,

I am looking at picking up a CZ Shadow 2 in the near future for competition (USPSA) LE duty (pending approval), and general usage. While I have handled a few in local shops, I’ve never actually fired one to compare to my Glock 34 gen 5 MOS. The ranges around here do not have one for rent either. That being said, I’d really like to put some rounds through one before dropping 1.2k+ on one.

Is there any member here who has a Shadow 2 or Accushadow 2 that would be willing to meet up at a range in central AL (Jefferson/St. Clair County area) to allow me to put maybe 250-500 rounds through their CZ? I’ll obviously buy the ammo and pay for any range fees.

Area: Central Alabama, will drive a bit to accomodate

Days available: every other Saturday after 12:00, Sundays after 12:00, and anytime before 5:00 on Mondays

I appreciate any offers to go shoot, guess reply to this thread, PM, or at 2zero5.242.sixeightfiveeight.

 

[PBWalsh]

Any takers want to show off their CZ?

 

[bgavin]

I’m near you but don’t have a CZ shadow.

I’ll ask around my area to see if anyone has one you can try out.

 

[PBWalsh]

I’d appreciate that. I honestly hope I hate it so I don’t have to buy it. I’m 95% sure I’ll love it though as I like the weight and trigger from the ones I’ve handled. Will be comparing it directly to my G34 with an RMR.

 

[Herstal 12]

Buy with confidence, the shadow 2 is a fantastic pistol right out the box, mine has over 6,000 rds now with zero issues. I don’t even shoot my glock 34 anymore and my sigs are getting dusty.

 

[PBWalsh]

I know, I still want to test drive one to compare it to my G34. Have you shot steel case through yours or just brass?

I ask because I regularly use both depending on sales and what my department gives me.

6k is a fair number of rounds. Do you have any experience with your Shadow 2 in bad conditions such as dirt, dust, general ikkyness? I read were they go for high round counds, but I fail to see how they perform under non-square range conditions. It gives me pause.

 

[Herstal 12]

Compared to my glock 34, it has better trigger, ergonomics, sights and faster to reload. I have never shot steel case ammo in it and only use it in square range so no idea how it would work for a duty weapon but I think the weight could be an issue to carry all day and there are sharpish corners on it compared to a glock and no night sights, so well while a great pistol I wouldn’t recommend it for LE duty but for competition etc it will shine as it was designed for it by competitors.

Hope this helps and not confuse you more

 

[ClangClang]

I'm a ~10 year USPSA competitor. I've also carried my Shadow for multiple Run N Gun matches which are 5-10 mile biathlon style races through the woods and forded waist deep rivers, low crawled through intense clay mud, and everything else. The Shadow remains my most reliable pistol and has experienced fewer failures than my Glocks in similar conditions. I have well over 10k, possibly 15k now through my Shadow. So yes, Shadows are dead nuts reliable even in highly adverse conditions. If you really want to try one out, just show up at your local USPSA match. There are guaranteed to be a couple of them floating around.

That being said, the Shadow is not really appropriate for LE duty use for a number of reasons. Primarily, the Shadow is targeted specifically at competition - it does not contain a firing pin block and is consequently not drop safe. It could fire if dropped, or if the hammer is hit while holstered (e.g. rolling around on the ground). Also, the trigger is very, very light. Especially if you do any tuning at all - SA will drop down to 2.5-3 lbs. That starts to become a real liability in an OIS. The gun itself is also very, very heavy. Having ~59oz (fully loaded) on your hip all day, every day, will begin to be a real pain, literally and figuratively. Worst of all, you will also have a devil of a time finding a quality Level II or III retention holster for it, especially if you want to use it with a weaponlight. They basically don't exist (unless you settle for shit awful retention methods like SLS). I'm a huge CZ fan, but for holster availability alone, I tend to steer away from CZ for duty use.

If you insist on a full size steel CZ, you should consider the SP-01 Tactical which has a firing pin block. Much safer and it can be tuned to still have an exceptional trigger. It's also a good 9oz lighter than the Shadow 2 (but still 50% heavier than a G17) so it will be a little nicer on your hip all day. But you'll still have the same holster issues. Otherwise you could look at the CZ P-10F which is their polymer, striker fired pistol. Very similar in size and shape to a Glock 17. Many of the G17 holsters including Safariland ALS options (the gold standard for LE duty holsters) will fit the P10F with just a couple seconds of dremel work.

Either of those options will make a fine USPSA platform as well. Are they the "flagship" S2 model? No, but it's an absolute guarantee that your match performance will not change at all whether you shoot a cheap polymer gun or a raced out Shadow 2. It's been proven infinite times. It's always the Indian, not the arrow.

 

[308pirate]

I hate to dissuade a fellow interested in CZs, but a Shadow (either the original or the 2) are not really good tools for duty use.

@ClangClang mentioned several reasons, plus the fact that the Shadows don't have a decocker. You either carry them cocked and locked or you manually lower the hammer like you would decock a DA revolver. Be sure your dept will authorize either.

The SP-01 Tactical is not only drop safe, it's also equipped with a decocker so lowering the hammer is dead simple and safe. It's also about 5 - 6 oz lighter.

If you need or want lighter still in a DA/SA duty worthy CZ you have two options: the P-09 or the SP-01 Phantom. The SP-01 Phantom is basically an -01 tactical with a polymer frame and a slide with lightening cuts. The guts and magazines are identical to all other CZ 75s and SP-01s equipped with a decocker so spare parts are a non issue. The P-09 is a serious sleeper of a pistol and far more controllable at speed than a polymer duty pistol should be.

If you want striker fired, the P-10F is your choice. It also comes in an optics ready version that can take any number of popular RMR optics without any aftermarket work.

 

[PBWalsh]

Yeah I'd definitely need to get it approved before purchase. As much as I'd like to have a USPSA only gun, my budget and mindset requires me to have a utilitarian firearm, be it pistol or rifle. I need to contact our rangemaster about that. Can't carry a personal weapon until 3.5.20 anyways.

I was unaware of the S2 not being technically drop safe. Good to know as I have dropped my issued G17 (twice) at a full sprint because I forgot to lock the SLS retention on my holster. It just hopped out and landed with gusto on the pavement with only some marks to the attached TLR1-HL.

As for holsters, I have found one company, Red Hill Tactical, that will make a S2 holster accommodating a Surefire X300-A and an RMR. It's retention is friction and a Bladetech hood though, nothing that actually locks it in.

I have also looked at the P-09 and P-10. Both had superior ergos compared to the G34 I have as far as pointing towards a target, reminded me of my Sig P226 E2. The P-09 trigger felt ok at best, didn't really seem any better than my G34. I would need to do some work to the SA trigger on it to warrant getting a different pistol. The P-10 however, had a superb trigger and the reset did make me smile. Much better than my G34's reset. The reset of the P-10 reminded me of my Sig's SRT reset, it was that good, and from a striker fire system nonetheless.

When looking at the P-09 and P-10, I don't think I can justify buying a new system over my G34. I don't personally see the great advantage those two have over it. Now, if I went back to when I bout my 34, I would look intently at those two as competitors and might have come away with a CZ over the Glock. I do see the S2 as enough to warrant the system change, but it'd have to get approved first. Also I am not a fan of the SLS when the ALS system does a better job of retention in my opinion, plus its noticeably faster to me.

The weight of a S2 does not bother me as much as it should (estimating 65oz with mag, light, and RMR), what bothers my more is my duty belt not properly fitting. Also, we could really use a belt/vest upgrade to better redistribute weight, but that is another story for another day...

@ClangClang I appreciate your story about you using the S2 in bad to terrible conditions, good to know it can take it. What holster were you using for all of that?

And as ClangClang noted, its far more about the shooter than the firearm. I understand this for sure and know my shooting would benefit more if I took the price of a new system and applied that to bullets down range. 1.2k buys a S2 or it can buy me about 6k rounds of training ammo. 6k rounds downrange will make me better, not picking up a S2.

I should be attending my first USPSA competition on 10.5.19 and will see if anyone has a S2 I can shoot. and test out directly against my 34.

And why don't I just use my P226? Well, it was my issued duty pistol for about 1.5 years at my previous department and through a few thousand rounds, I seemed to have my firing hand thumb hit the slide release 90% of the time, thereby not locking the slide back on empty. Immediate tap/rack just to see I'm empty, thats no good. Never seemed to train past that, so it now is just a fun range gun. More fun now with the SRT kit and a Grey Ghost flat faced trigger. I still consistently smash that slide release though from my firing hand thumb...

 

[PBWalsh]

Well today I said screw it and put $500 down on a Shadow 2 Black/Blue. Should have the rest paid off in a month. Doing this without firing anything out of one, I’m 95% sure I’ll seriously enjoy this handgun though.

Will have range pictures/write up when I finally get it.

 

[ClangClang]

If you need or want lighter still in a DA/SA duty worthy CZ you have two options: the P-09 or the SP-01 Phantom. The SP-01 Phantom is basically an -01 tactical with a polymer frame and a slide with lightening cuts. The guts and magazines are identical to all other CZ 75s and SP-01s equipped with a decocker so spare parts are a non issue. The P-09 is a serious sleeper of a pistol and far more controllable at speed than a polymer duty pistol should be.

The Phantom and P-09 are both great. I used to own the P-09 which was tuned and had the full CGW Pro kit inside. Incredible trigger. Had to sell it though because with the included Reach Reduction Kit, the trigger was so far back inside the trigger guard that my XL hands would "overreach" through the trigger guard and I couldn't get a good finger position on the trigger. That pistol, with that tune job, would be PERFECT for duty/competition use for someone with normal size hands (actually, normal finger length, specifically). Overall hand size is less relevant.

After selling the P-09, I picked up a Phantom instead and installed new parts (hammer, disco, springs, short reset) and polished/tuned it myself (that was a learning experience, for sure). Big bonus for me was commonality of magazines with my Shadows. I don't shoot it quite as well as the P-09 and it's noticeably less accurate, which I am still investigating. Regardless, I have still used it towards at least 1 match win and multiple podium finishes.

One point of clarification: It shares almost no internal parts at all with the rest of the SP-01 line.

Yeah I'd definitely need to get it approved before purchase. As much as I'd like to have a USPSA only gun, my budget and mindset requires me to have a utilitarian firearm, be it pistol or rifle. I need to contact our rangemaster about that. Can't carry a personal weapon until 3.5.20 anyways.

I was unaware of the S2 not being technically drop safe. Good to know as I have dropped my issued G17 (twice) at a full sprint because I forgot to lock the SLS retention on my holster. It just hopped out and landed with gusto on the pavement with only some marks to the attached TLR1-HL.

As for holsters, I have found one company, Red Hill Tactical, that will make a S2 holster accommodating a Surefire X300-A and an RMR. It's retention is friction and a Bladetech hood though, nothing that actually locks it in.

.
.
.

@ClangClang I appreciate your story about you using the S2 in bad to terrible conditions, good to know it can take it. What holster were you using for all of that?

And as ClangClang noted, its far more about the shooter than the firearm. I understand this for sure and know my shooting would benefit more if I took the price of a new system and applied that to bullets down range. 1.2k buys a S2 or it can buy me about 6k rounds of training ammo. 6k rounds downrange will make me better, not picking up a S2.

I should be attending my first USPSA competition on 10.5.19 and will see if anyone has a S2 I can shoot. and test out directly against my 34.

Just a custom made holster by literally a high school airsofter kid. It's a piece of shit and hate it. But to his credit, I contacted over 30 custom kydex companies and not a single one would make me exactly what I wanted except for this kid, so beggars can't be choosers.

One last thought. Instead of just sending 6k rounds down range, you would be far better served taking that $1200 and taking the 3 day Handgun Mastery course with Tactical Performance Center in UT. Take a nice vacation while you're out there. They are, hands down, the absolute premier performance handgun instructors in the country. I've been meaning to write an AAR for ages, but suffice it to say, I plan on taking the same course yearly. It's that good. I came home and at my very next match increased my USPSA classification level, after a 5-6 year plateau.

 

[308pirate]

I don't shoot it (SP-01 Phantom) quite as well as the P-09 and it's noticeably less accurate, which I am still investigating.

One point of clarification: It shares almost no internal parts at all with the rest of the SP-01 line

My P-09 is significantly more accurate the my 75 BD and P-01. Unlike the latter two, it has ZERO play between slide, frame, and barrel when in battery. And that's how it came.

So no commonality of fire control parts between the Phantom and the 75BD or SP-01 Tactical?

 

[ClangClang]

My P-09 is significantly more accurate the my 75 BD and P-01. Unlike the latter two, it has ZERO play between slide, frame, and barrel when in battery. And that's how it came.

So no commonality of fire control parts between the Phantom and the 75BD or SP-01 Tactical?

Some basic parts like the trigger itself can be shared, but the entire sear cage (and all associated parts), decocker, hammer, trigger bar, etc are all unique to the Phantom. It also has some parts that none of the steel frame models have (the "bracket" which holds the fire control group within the frame) and lacks other parts completely, such as a mag brake.

 

[308pirate]

Some basic parts like the trigger itself can be shared, but the entire sear cage (and all associated parts), decocker, hammer, trigger bar, etc are all unique to the Phantom. It also has some parts that none of the steel frame models have (the "bracket" which holds the fire control group within the frame) and lacks other parts completely, such as a mag brake.

That's good to know. I always thought it was identical (or nearly so) inside. From an producibility point of view it would have made complete sense to design it that way.

 

[ClangClang]

That's good to know. I always thought it was identical (or nearly so) inside. From an producibility point of view it would have made complete sense to design it that way.

As I understand it, the original steel frame dimensions couldn't be replicated in plastic (lower strength to volume ratio) so once the frame needed to be updated, they used the opportunity to optimize some manufacturing/assembly capabilities.

Some more thoughts on the Phantom: I love the ergos and the commonality of mags with the rest of my CZs. The trigger was literally dogshit terrible out of the box. Probably 11# DA (it maxed out my 10# gauge), 6# SA, and what I liked to call a "five stage trigger" lol. But with 2 hrs of 1000 grit polishing and CGW parts, it has a cleaner break than my Shadow, no joke. It's amazing. The pre-travel is still a little longer than I prefer, but for a "combat" pistol it makes perfect sense. It was never designed to be a race gun.

To address the mediocre accuracy I'll be ordering the CGW bushing for it with my next order to see if I can tighten up the groups. Last week I shot some 25 yd groups from sandbags. With a G17 Gen 5 and TTI iron sights (otherwise stock) I was able to rip a single ragged hole, around 1.25", but my Phantom with a DPP red dot and tuned trigger was around a 2.5" buckshot pattern. Pretty disappointing, but for my purposes, it is just barely adequate. If I can improve that a bit, it will be the perfect fit for me.

 

[308pirate]

To address the mediocre accuracy I'll be ordering the CGW bushing for it with my next order to see if I can tighten up the groups.

I've thought about doing that to my 75BD but haven't really focused on it. I'm focusing on USPSA revo next year.

 

[BadQ]

I just picked one up today

 

[PBWalsh]

Few more hundred to pay off and I’ll join you @BadQ with a Black/Blue.

 

[BadQ]

I have not shot it yet. First impression... its slick and a heavy pig, but it should shoot fast. I will definitely be putting new springs in it at a minimum. I'm toying with the idea of going single action only.

 

[ClangClang]

I have not shot it yet. First impression... its slick and a heavy pig, but it should shoot fast. I will definitely be putting new springs in it at a minimum. I'm toying with the idea of going single action only.

If it's only to be a range toy, carry on! Just be aware, if you ever plan on entering various pistol competitions, having it SAO will automatically put you in a different division where you will be competing at somewhat of a disadvantage.

 

[BadQ]

its slick and a heavy pig,

I am thoroughly mistaken.

With a loaded mag, it is a fucking elephant. If you try to use this as a carry gun, you better wear suspenders and a garrison belt. Preferably one with the steel insert. I am shocked. It should shoot good though. Torque should be minimal.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I hate to dissuade a fellow interested in CZs, but a Shadow (either the original or the 2) are not really good tools for duty use.
@ClangClang mentioned several reasons, plus the fact that the Shadows don't have a decocker. You either carry them cocked and locked or you manually lower the hammer like you would decock a DA revolver. Be sure your dept will authorize either.
The SP-01 Tactical is not only drop safe, it's also equipped with a decocker so lowering the hammer is dead simple and safe. It's also about 5 - 6 oz lighter.

Another option is to get one of the CZ 75 Omega versions or the SP-01 tactical depending on what you prefer in front rails.
Then you have a choice of either safety or a decocker depending on which you prefer.

 

[308pirate]

Another option is to get one of the CZ 75 Omega versions or the SP-01 tactical depending on what you prefer in front rails.
Then you have a choice of either safety or a decocker depending on which you prefer.

The 75 Omega allows you to switch between safety and decocker. The SP-01 Tactical doesn't have the Omega lockwork so it won't. It's decocker only.

 

[PBWalsh]

Picked it up today!

Weighing in at a solid 3lb 9oz loaded. RHT and an ANR Designs holster will be purchased soon. RMR should be on it some point next year with some CGW internals and Lok grips. Very excited to get out and shoot it. Settles and points in the hand like a dream, makes my Glock 34 feel like a featherweight in comparison.

 

[308pirate]

Picked it up today!

 

[Ledzep]

For sure get the LOK grips. I got the palm swell bogies for mine and it's surprisingly better. I liked the grip a lot before, too. I think I'm ~1000 rounds into mine so far and no issues to report. Heavy, but a great target/uspsa gun. A local range has some 10" plates at 100 and I can ping them pretty regularly.

 

[PBWalsh]

@Ledzep

What side gloves/hand size do you have? The Lok grips I planned on getting were the Boogie (or whatever their most aggressive grip texture is) thins because they say they are similar to the factory Shadow 2’s, which fit me. I generally do not do well with pistol palm swells, but am all about comfort it it’ll help.

For reference, I have medium hands where a large Mechanix glove is slightly oversized on me.

 

[Ledzep]

I have short fat hands. Usually borderline small or medium gloves. When I held the factory grips, though, I could feel that the palm area wasn't really supporting/touching my hand because it's pretty much a flat plate. The palm swells on these LOK grips aren't very drastic and it's a really good fit now. The extra texture is nice, too.

 

[PBWalsh]

Those look nice, much less swell than I thought. I was thinking they were closer to the palm swell grips seen on P226s which are way too big for me.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I have short fat hands. Usually borderline small or medium gloves. When I held the factory grips, though, I could feel that the palm area wasn't really supporting/touching my hand because it's pretty much a flat plate. The palm swells on these LOK grips aren't very drastic and it's a really good fit now. The extra texture is nice, too.

View attachment 7158316

Do you happen to know which exact ones those are?

 

[Ledzep]

CZ Shadow 2 Palm Swell Bogies

LOK Grips' CZ Shadow 2 Palm Swell Bogies Grips are made thin at the top to accommodate the higher grip toward the axis of the barrel. The Bogies dimple texture is very aggressive and performs well in the extreme conditions. These G10 grips are significantly thicker and lighter than the stock...

lokgrips.com

 

[W54/XM-388]

Thanks, I'll have to see about trying a set.
I have the short stubby hands and as such grips are always an issue for me.

 

[PBWalsh]

Anyone know of a flat shoe trigger that will allow the use of the double action? I like the look of Armory Craft’s, but that requires me to fully convert to SAO. Not to sure if I want to do that or not. Not against SAO as it’d basically turn it into a very reliable 2011.

 

[ClangClang]

Edit: Disregard. I was wrong.

 

[PBWalsh]

First range day today with about 800 rounds downrange, zero failures.

Only issue was that my thumb slipped letting the hammer down, sending a round into the berm. Never forget the rules of safety!! Fortunately the gun was pointed in a safe direction and no harm was caused. After that accident, I blocked the firing pin with my thumb while letting it down. No problems after that.

The pistol is a freaking hammer though, even in my hands. Accurate doubles and very fast mag dumps really shows off what the pistol can do. Even made a few COM hits at 50 yards. Extremely pleased with its performance.

Definitely will be purchasing some Lok Boogie grips soon though as the aluminum gets slick on rainy days like today. Today made me reconsider if a trigger job from CGW would even be worth it.

Any hesitancy is purchasing the gun has already been long since forgotten.

 

[BadQ]

Took mine to the range last weekend. The shadow 2 is a beast. Stock trigger is almost too light. I had a couple double taps just trying to ride the reset. I put lok boggies on and it's super grippy. After shooting the cz, my modded g34 felt like garbage.