Damn! Bought an M1A.....

[pmclaine]

M1A is in hand.

Took a closer look at that interesting match gun in the rack. Surpised me.

Its a BYF 42 date code 98 Mauser action in left hand. Im assuming it was originally a mil spec right hand rifle.

There is the faintest change in the bluing to indicate where I assume the old bolt space was welded up. The work is impeccable.

Caliber is .308 Win and barrel is marked G. R. Bates. Quick Google finds G.R. Bates worked at The Rifle Shop in Boontown New Jersey. Contour looks to be Winchester target perhaps M24/40.

It has Posa Unert style blocks and a front sight block. On the right side there are plugs in the rear sight mount holes.

Numbers on parts I could see appear to match.

Has a fat trigger shoe typical of 50s-60s era match guns.

Sweet rifle. Pics to follow. Tough place to take pictures though.

 

[PBWalsh]

Sounds like some real work was put into that, if I were a left handed shooter I’d contact the shop.

Sucker for old target rifles.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

They made all the original M60 machine guns as well.

Technically, I think that was Saco Defense, which GD Armament and Technical Products in Burlington acquired in the late ‘90s.

Cheers, Sirhr

 

[pmclaine]

The match gun.....

The area that was welded up..

 

[pmclaine]

My rifle....

Before clean up,

Only markings on trigger pack are numbers....

Op rod is SA....

Hasnt been shot in a long time, grease was dried up and op rod spring had a light haze of rust. Barrel is a mirror......

After some plastilube and linseed oil was applied. I think the stock may be birch. Any of you guys wood gazers?

 

[Pvt. Joker]

This is one of mine, all USGI parts SA INC. 1990 receiver.

 

[deltawiskey]

You guys are really making me want a wood stocked M14!
Gorgeous rifles!!
DW

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

The match gun.....

View attachment 7222188

View attachment 7222189

View attachment 7222190

View attachment 7222191

View attachment 7222192

The area that was welded up..

View attachment 7222194

Very cool. Tho unfortunately it looks to be small ring.. Id prefer LR..

 

[PBWalsh]

Gorgeous Mauser! Appreciate the pictures, somebody did good work with the rifle for a lefty.

 

[Pvt. Joker]

You guys are really making me want a wood stocked M14!
Gorgeous rifles!!
DW

DW, You NEED a wood stocked USGI parts M14. Just knowing theres one or two in the safe gives one an inner sense of peace and completeness.
Its my favorite of any of the American military rifles and IMO the most accurate battle rifle our troops were ever issued.
With exception to the bolt guns, it beats my stock issue Garands and AR/M16s hands down.

 

[pmclaine]

Just left the range.

Another kid with an M1A shows up and says hello and comes over to check out my rifle.

First words out of his cock holster......"You have to buy........."

Im finding out that when you own an M1A its a license for everyone to tel you what you need to buy to "improve your rifle".

Its appreciated but not the hole I intend to dig.

I was shooting SR1 reduced targets and this rifle will hold black.

Ashamedly Ill admit I don't even know what the adjustments are. I assumed 1/2 MOA for both dials but thinking windage is 1 MOA.

Got a respectable 100 yards zero that should hold the ten ring.

Im getting some vertical and I blame me. I only randomly shoot irons and they are less forgiving than glass. Sight picture with irons needs to be trained so that when your brain sees the "go alignment" the finger has broken the shot.

Great rifle. So familiar to the Garand but different. Kept expecting to hear the ping. Lighter weight feels "snappier". Feels svelte compared to its fat father.

Pics to follow of course.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Don't let anyone tell you what you must have for that rifle. Not everyone wants to go down the accuracy rabbit hole. My scout is a 3 moa rifle that's reliable as hell. My Supermatch was for when I shot NRA Service Rifle regularly, now it's getting a scope mount and scope soon.

Your standard sights are 1 inch per click on elevation and windage. Some sight had a different aperture to give you .5" adjustments and a different windage drum to also give .5" adjustment.

 

[Pvt. Joker]

Just left the range.

Another kid with an M1A shows up and says hello and comes over to check out my rifle.

First words out of his cock holster......"You have to buy........."

Im finding out that when you own an M1A its a license for everyone to tel you what you need to buy to "improve your rifle".

Its appreciated but not the hole I intend to dig.

I was shooting SR1 reduced targets and this rifle will hold black.

Ashamedly Ill admit I don't even know what the adjustments are. I assumed 1/2 MOA for both dials but thinking windage is 1 MOA.

Got a respectable 100 yards zero that should hold the ten ring.

Im getting some vertical and I blame me. I only randomly shoot irons and they are less forgiving than glass. Sight picture with irons needs to be trained so that when your brain sees the "go alignment" the finger has broken the shot.

Great rifle. So familiar to the Garand but different. Kept expecting to hear the ping. Lighter weight feels "snappier". Feels svelte compared to its fat father.

Pics to follow of course.

I'll take an M14 any day over a Garand on the range.
Just seems to fit me better, more "natural" if you will.

 

[Corprin]

It’s almost like the M14 was the next evolution of the M1!! ?


I think the best cure for range day lookieloos is my tried and true RBF.

 

[pmclaine]

First shot with as bought sight setting was pretty low. Made an adjustment and got in black.

When I started losing which was which in the black I loaded up 9 and went for a clean target. Ended up right and high....

Fired two more strings of ten. Next were low left. Than I found general center......

So out of 29 only one wasnt in the black. Ill take that form a rifle thats all GI issue except for the receiver.

Bought a Sparrowhawk faux selector lock/sear bar. Only thing Ill buy and only getting it to fill the hole and gaps in the stock where the FA gadgetry would have been.

 

[deltawiskey]

Thats a very nice rifle pmclaine, I wouldn't change anything else ; )
DW

 

[JMGlasgow]

That's a very nice stock. And that is a pretty decent group with irons. I have good days and bad shooting iron sights.

I do find that a narrower NM front sight really helps with consistent sight picture. That is the one thing on my list for my Garand, and I'm hoping to find a scout height narrow front sight.

Any suggestions on applying Tru Oil to my stock?

 

[Pvt. Joker]

That's a very nice stock. And that is a pretty decent group with irons. I have good days and bad shooting iron sights.

I do find that a narrower NM front sight really helps with consistent sight picture. That is the one thing on my list for my Garand, and I'm hoping to find a scout height narrow front sight.

Any suggestions on applying Tru Oil to my stock?

Any suggestions on applying Tru Oil to my stock?

Have you done anything to the stock yet?
If not, strip it with zip paint or finish remover once or twice then wash it good to get it real clean. Steam out any dents you can then allow it to dry overnight. lightly sand it but avoid any stamping or cartouches if it has any. Stain it with a correct military colored stain, Dark Walnut with a reddish tint is what I have used, buff with steel wool and repeat if desired. Allow to completely dry for a day or more then begin the hand rub with the first coat of Tru Oil, allow to absorb, follow the instructions, this will take a few days when done right. The more time you put into the finish the better it will come out, you rush it and you will get a 2nd class job.

Good Luck !

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

@pmclaine - do you remember the former Marine that was posting all those old documents he had access to not too long ago? I can't for the life of me recall his username..


Nevermind, its cplnorton

 

[pmclaine]

That's a very nice stock. And that is a pretty decent group with irons. I have good days and bad shooting iron sights.

I do find that a narrower NM front sight really helps with consistent sight picture. That is the one thing on my list for my Garand, and I'm hoping to find a scout height narrow front sight.

Any suggestions on applying Tru Oil to my stock?

I used this on that stock as well as my .223 M40. Will also use it on my in process build R700 M40 "Updated" project....

Starting to really like it. The M40 has been curing 6 months now and it is starting to turn a nice mil spec red.

A few of my guns have Real Milk Paint Pure Tung oil.

They look good too but tend toward the shiny side. Both types of oil are compatible with each other. Tung being a bit more weatherproof because it "shells" over. Tung is more color stable - you wont get much change as it polymerizes.

I like these plain natural oils that I apply by bare hand.

I use a very small amount, literally drops in the palm of one hand, rub your hands together to get oil on both palms, than rub down the rifle with the intent to cause enough friction/heat that the wood will burst into flame.

I dont think Tru Oil is 100 percent natural oil, nor are things labled "finish".

I haven't had any issues with these two oil brands not drying or becoming sticky and I put them on frequently. My .223 M40 has probably 40 coats or so.

When it comes to rifle stocks AOC and I agree natural finish is the way to go.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I used this on that stock as well as my .223 M40.....

View attachment 7223272

Starting to really like it. The M40 has been curing 6 months now and it is starting to turn a nice mil spec red.

A few of my guns have Real Milk Paint Pure Tung oil. They look good to but tend toward the shiny side.

I like these plain natural oils that I apply by hand.

I use a very small amount, literally drops, and rub it in.

I dont think Tru Oil is 100 percent natural oil, nor are things labled finish.

When it comes to rifle stocks AOC and I agree natural finish is the way to go.

Didnt you say youre plannin to build a legit 'Nam period correct M40 clone(in .308, to go w/ your .223 M40)?

What components you plan to use? AFAIK the M40 was all-Remington parts: barrel, stock, etc.. you'd likely end up $$$-ahead while bein clone-correct as possible by grabbing up a older(when R700's were still quality, good shooters) good condition low/zero round count R700 take-off .308 Rem Varmint contour barrel, w/out compromisin much if any accuracy. That is, provided you've the barrel+action threads cleaned up if necessary along w/ having the action trued/blueprinted/lapped lugs/etc + steel or glass-bedded w/ pillars to a correct Remington takeoff M40 profile stock(or even better IMO: have Joel Russo make ya brand new M40 duplicate stock out of Bastonge).

Reason I say Bastogne is that AFAIK its a much denser wood than, say American walnut.. and hence should last much longer before compressing.. along w/ being less susceptible to movement/swelling/etc due to humidity/moisture because of its superior density, AFAIK at least....

Or, along with the above-mentioned truing/bedded with pillars, instead of using a older R700 takeoff barrel like I mentioned 2 paragraphs up..you could just grab up a Douglas(or Shilen or Green Mountain) button-rifled chrome-moly .308 Rem Varmint contour barrel. Reasoning for button-rifled chrome moly barrel: thats what the M40 barrel was.. except for it obviously being a Remington-produced barrel.

If it was me, I'd look around for a low round count R700 takeoff .308 Varmint barrel for a bit. If I couldn't find a good one fairly quick and cheap; I'd go with Douglas most likely, in the M40 correct configuration. If going with Shilen, I'd have the optional hand lapping ($40 AFAIK(?)) done for sure. Don't overlook Green Mountain either.. however I believe they will not contour the barrel for you. But their prices are jaw dropping......... IN A GOOD WAY!

Apologies for the encyclopedia length post gentlemen!

 

[pmclaine]

Didnt you say youre plannin to build a legit 'Nam period correct M40 clone(in .308, to go w/ your .223 M40)?

What components you plan to use? AFAIK the M40 was all-Remington parts: barrel, stock, etc.. you'd likely end up $$$-ahead while bein clone-correct as possible by grabbing up a older(when R700's were still quality, good shooters) good condition low/zero round count R700 take-off .308 Rem Varmint contour barrel, w/out compromisin much if any accuracy. That is, provided you've the barrel+action threads cleaned up if necessary along w/ having the action trued/blueprinted/lapped lugs/etc + steel or glass-bedded w/ pillars to a correct Remington takeoff M40 profile stock(or even better IMO: have Joel Russo make ya brand new M40 duplicate stock out of Bastonge).

Reason I say Bastogne is that AFAIK its a much denser wood than, say American walnut.. and hence should last much longer before compressing.. along w/ being less susceptible to movement/swelling/etc due to humidity/moisture because of its superior density, AFAIK at least....

Or, along with the above-mentioned truing/bedded with pillars, instead of using a older R700 takeoff barrel like I mentioned 2 paragraphs up..you could just grab up a Douglas(or Shilen or Green Mountain) button-rifled chrome-moly .308 Rem Varmint contour barrel. Reasoning for button-rifled chrome moly barrel: thats what the M40 barrel was.. except for it obviously being a Remington-produced barrel.

If it was me, I'd look around for a low round count R700 takeoff .308 Varmint barrel for a bit. If I couldn't find a good one fairly quick and cheap; I'd go with Douglas most likely, in the M40 correct configuration. If going with Shilen, I'd have the optional hand lapping ($40 AFAIK(?)) done for sure. Don't overlook Green Mountain either.. however I believe they will not contour the barrel for you. But their prices are jaw dropping......... IN A GOOD WAY!

Apologies for the encyclopedia length post gentlemen!

Nah!

I bought one of the MaWhinney over runs from Badger. That's as clone as I need be.

 

[acudaowner]

I may be mistaken but the title , dam i bought a m1a sounded like complaining when it should be a call to excitement dam yea I just got a great new old gun or a ineradicable new remake of an ineradicable old gun where is the excitement and thrill of owning what could be a piece of old history or just a new to you gun . Na congrats on your purchase best wishes on shooting it for many many years .

 

[pmclaine]

I may be mistaken but the title , dam i bought a m1a sounded like complaining when it should be a call to excitement dam yea I just got a great new old gun or a ineradicable new remake of an ineradicable old gun where is the excitement and thrill of owning what could be a piece of old history or just a new to you gun . Na congrats on your purchase best wishes on shooting it for many many years .

Its only "Damn bought an X!" when you are all excited about going into the shop to pick up the R700 action for your next build.

You have the receiver all paid for and your relationship with the dealer is such he does free transfers for the once in awhile shit you have mailed in.

So you walk in thinking "This is great new receiver to show the coworkers. In and out painless"

Than you walk out with your receiver for a build your estimating to cost you a few grand AND a $1500 rifle and your wondering "What just happened to me?"

"Damn, I just bought an X"

 

[pmclaine]

It’s almost like the M14 was the next evolution of the M1!! ?


I think the best cure for range day lookieloos is my tried and true RBF.

Thing is M14 was the rifle John Cantius Garand wanted to build (without the FA ability and in a 6mm variety) but the idea of having troops lose their box magazines was too much for the accountants to give a blessing to.

Can you imagine how outgunned our enemies would have been if the M14 was standard issue in WWII?

 

[RTH1800]

I have often thought of that.

 

[pmclaine]

I have often thought of that.

Japanese would have abandoned Banzai charges after the first time only making it to "Ba........" before being shot to pieces.

 

[USMC mustang]

Any suggestions on applying Tru Oil to my stock?

Depending on your desired results Tru Oil may not be the best choice if you want to maintain the appearance of a USGI stock. It can build quite a gloss, especially with multiple coats. If you want a glossier, more weatherproof finish go for it. If not, use it sparingly. I refinished a M1 carbine stock with it years ago and didn't care for the sheen, even after I knocked it down a bit with some steel wool. I like Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO) and Tung Oil. They don't offer the moisture protection that Tru Oil does but they are a more original finish for wood military stocks and can really highlight the grain in a nice piece of walnut.

Check out the following article from the CMP;

Wood Cleaning Article - Civilian Marksmanship Program

USGI Rifle Stocks and Hand Guards: Walnut and Birch Entry Level Care and Preservation Tips and Considerations for CMP Wood (August 2005 Revision: Sections 6.1 and 6.7 have additions and Sections 6.4a and 6.4b are new.) CMP surplus rifles such as the M1 Garand, M1903 Springfield, and the various...

thecmp.org

 

[USMC mustang]

View attachment 7222196

I think the stock may be birch. Any of you guys wood gazers?

Congrats on your rifle, the stock looks like birch to me. Last year I picked up an unfired 1994 manufactured M1A in the box . I had a Fulton Armory receiver that I bought to build a clone of a USGI rifle but the nice parts kits seemed to dry up and the project never gained steam. When I found the SA I bought it and sold the receiver. Again congrats, that's a nice rifle!

 

[Random Guy]

Nice looking wood stocked M1As on this thread. FWIW, Here's my 1977 era SAI that I built into a replica of a 1967 National Match rifle...

...which I can also convert into an early Vietnam war sniper rifle with AWC/M84 set-up, circa 1967.

 

[Phil McGrath]

Good looking M1A however your op-rod and trigger group are SA Inc and are not from the Springfield Armory. Good shooting but sling in and go prone and you will find that the groups close in much more.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Thing is M14 was the rifle John Cantius Garand wanted to build (without the FA ability and in a 6mm variety) but the idea of having troops lose their box magazines was too much for the accountants to give a blessing to.

Can you imagine how outgunned our enemies would have been if the M14 was standard issue in WWII?

6mm? Thought original Garand was supposed to be .276?

 

[pmclaine]

6mm? Thought original Garand was supposed to be .276?

Okay 7 mm or .28 caliber.

whats .276 rounded up?

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Okay 7 mm or .28 caliber.

whats .276 rounded up?

Wasnt tryna put ya down or start any shit slingin Mr Mclaine I consider you a great guy far as I know you... just figured I'd point out it was designed around .276 Pedersen.
Maybe ya got mixed with the 1895 6mm Lee Navy, which birthed the .220 Swift, at least to my knowledge...

 

[Random Guy]

Original box of 276 Pederson, but with a reproduction front cover (1929 production):

FWIW, the prototype M1 would have used a 10-rd enbloc type clip with this ammo, but that became an 8-rd clip with larger diameter 30-06.

 

[pmclaine]

Wasnt tryna put ya down or start any shit slingin Mr Mclaine I consider you a great guy far as I know you... just figured I'd point out it was designed around .276 Pedersen.
Maybe ya got mixed with the 1895 6mm Lee Navy, which birthed the .220 Swift, at least to my knowledge...

No offense taken.

Appreciate your precision.

 

[pmclaine]

Unsure if the .276 in the Garand required lubrication of the cartridge but the .276 Pederson rifle was primer actuated and needed lubed cartridges.

Just the thought of it gives me a headache thinking how fucked up that would be.

 

[kraigWY]

Back in '74-76 I was more into revolver shooting figuring I should since I just started my career into LE. At the same time one of my cop buddies got me into skeet and trap shooting. This went on until 1977 when I injured my right hand, having a bunch of pins in it. Tried to shoot a trap gun but the recoil was painful, At the time I was hanging around a LGS run by none other then Wayne Young. Retired AMU Shooter and who was also the Chief Gun Smith for the AMU's sniper program in Vietnam.

He talked me into buying a M1A, New Price of $295. Serial number 008609, Telling me I should start shooting for the Guard, since they would pay me and buy my ammo intead of the high cost of shoot gun school. (Wayne Young also liked me up to get a slot in the AMU Sniper School.

I started shooting for the Gurard where i met one of their armors , Gene Barrnett, (Barrrnett Barrells. Barrnett notice I was shooting a standard grade so he kept my rifle. Four months later he sent my rifle back after converted it at Guard expense, to a supper match that I coninuded shooting during my M1A unit i retired and getting my Distingushed Rifle Badge.

I still have it and it still shoots great.

 

[sandwarrior]

Back in '74-76 I was more into revolver shooting figuring I should since I just started my career into LE. At the same time one of my cop buddies got me into skeet and trap shooting. This went on until 1977 when I injured my right hand, having a bunch of pins in it. Tried to shoot a trap gun but the recoil was painful, At the time I was hanging around a LGS run by none other then Wayne Young. Retired AMU Shooter and who was also the Chief Gun Smith for the AMU's sniper program in Vietnam.

He talked me into buying a M1A, New Price of $295. Serial number 008609, Telling me I should start shooting for the Guard, since they would pay me and buy my ammo intead of the high cost of shoot gun school. (Wayne Young also liked me up to get a slot in the AMU Sniper School.

I started shooting for the Gurard where i met one of their armors , Gene Barrnett, (Barrrnett Barrells. Barrnett notice I was shooting a standard grade so he kept my rifle. Four months later he sent my rifle back after converted it at Guard expense, to a supper match that I coninuded shooting during my M1A unit i retired and getting my Distingushed Rifle Badge.

I still have it and it still shoots great.

Been a few moons since we've seen you post. Glad this brought you out to post! ?

 

[sandwarrior]

Okay 7 mm or .28 caliber.

whats .276 rounded up?

In that case .276 is bore (lands) dia and .284 is groove dia.

 

[Pvt. Joker]

Read thru this as it also lists past the 100000 serial number mark in this post.

SA, Inc. M1A serial number born on date database (000001 - 100000) https://m14forum.com/showthread.php?t=6748

 

[Harleystoo]

pmclaine: nice find! The stock has some great looking grain, and early SAI receivers were well made..
There are a number of us here that are on the M14 forum, and there is alot of good info over there.
As you've seen just on this one thread, there are many ways to go with the M14.
Here's one I built a few years ago.

 

[pmclaine]

pmclaine: nice find! The stock has some great looking grain, and early SAI receivers were well made..
There are a number of us here that are on the M14 forum, and there is alot of good info over there.
As you've seen just on this one thread, there are many ways to go with the M14.
Here's one I built a few years ago.

Is that one of those Eyetalian M14s?

Is that heel an original receiver reweld?

Think Estonia still runs M14s on a limited basis Ill have to see what configs they have come up with.

Headed to the range now with mine. Got a box of S&B clone M80, not expecting tight groups.

 

[JMGlasgow]

I think by the name of his picture it's an SEI (Smith Enterprise) receiver.

I like the folding wood stock with the short barrel.

I've heard that S&B ammo can run pretty hot.

 

[Harleystoo]

Correct, it is a Smith Enterprise receiver, barrel, and Coast Guard muzzle break. The rest is USGI. The stock was made by SAI yrs ago (1980s) using USGI stocks and Italian Alpine folders.

 

[pmclaine]

I think by the name of his picture it's an SEI (Smith Enterprise) receiver.

I like the folding wood stock with the short barrel.

I've heard that S&B ammo can run pretty hot.

I know Italy did some similar builds with the Garand. That's what had me curious if this is a clone of a foreign service M14.

Looking at the heel of that receiver, the distinct color line. if it was a Garand Id think "annealed" during the war.

The latest thing with M1As has been to weld the heel from a demilled GI M14 on to a commercial M1A. It makes some really cool guns. Add a Sparrowhawk selector kit and visually its an M14.

The legality of that strikes me as akin to a pistol brace and a pistol length barrel but hey 2A - eat a dick.


Edit Add - Ammo ran better than I was expecting. Pics later.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

When you're running out the door to a knife fight, take a gun.
When you're running out the door to a Battle..... Take a Battle Rifle.

Hobo

 

[pmclaine]

Todays effort with the 147 grain M80 clone ammo...

Was hoping that perhaps the vintage Junkers shooting glasses I was graciously gifted might have a dominant eye lens that was good for my correction but sadly I saw the FSP better with my own glasses on. Ill be working with ISS to try and get correct lenses for these....

The target....

Made one correction of 2 MOA up from my FGMM zero. Saw things seemed to be tracking right so after a bit I made a correction 1 MOA left. I was loathe to do so wanting to see how the group would be but I decided getting data was more important.

Stuff shot better than I was expecting.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Not too bad. How do the primers on the cases look?

 

[pmclaine]

Not too bad. How do the primers on the cases look?

They all landed in the snow and buried themselves.

This is a limited qty of ammo I have so it wasn't worth chasing.

Recoil was typical. I was single loading in the mag. Everything operated great.

I will check tomorrow now you have me curious.