Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

[Sgt. Brumbaugh]

I hate to do this; but Dave has left me no choice. 14 months ago (Jan 2010) I sent him a down payment on a 338 Yogi. After he got my money he was nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get in contact with. I had to start two different threads on two different forums asking if he was still in business. It was a subtle way of saying would you please respond to just one email or phone call about the progress of my rifle. In the past I built rifles and I understand that it takes time, but this is rediculous.

He is a PM I got in November.

Hi John

I'm very sorry for not responding to you sooner. This has been an overwhelming year when it comes to my work load. There are times I ignore people while I try to get work out the door. I'm still waiting on Bartlien to send me the barrel. When it shows up I'll get your rifle built right away. I'm very sorry for the delay and my poor customer service.

Dave.

I am done with him, but now he won't respond to my emails asking what parts he has. He told me in Jan 2010 that "all the parts are on order" if that is the case he should have my Jewell trigger, BATHRPIC, Stock.......and maybe the barrel has come in. I just want my stuff so I can get another gunsmith to build this rifle. This is BS.

I hate getting on the web to air my issues, but I have been ignored and I suspect lied to for 14 months, numerous emails and phone calls ignored, etc. I doubt he has any of the parts other than the action, if he does.....then send them to me.

 

[jasonk]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

Sorry to hear about this, Dave has always been responsive when I've sent him messages and the one time I've called him he picked up the phone on the first ring.

I've got faith that Dave will make it right, he's been doing this a long long time and has some great references.

Good luck.
Jason

 

[QRE23]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

Take this with a grain of salt but....

I am in no way defending either side but as is often the case good "smiths" can take up to and sometimes including the better part of 2 yrs. Now, you can certainly find some very good smiths, Kevin Cram @ Montour County Rifles comes to mind, that do an excellent job with a much faster turn around time. I suspect guys like Kevin have a faster turn around time mostly because they either are more hungry and want to get paid or maybe aren't quite as busy as some of these others. I also noticed you had a parts list with some of, if not, the best parts available. I had a 338 built on a BAT HRPIC myself so I personally know how long the wait time is on those receivers. It's longggg to say the least but in my opinion there is NONE better. BAT's stuff is truely a machining marvel.

Should it take that long to complete your project? No! But, it often does with many of the good smiths out there. Trust me when I say this cause I and many others do, I feel your pain my friend, I feel your pain, as I'm currently waiting on a 30-338Lap Imp project that is nearing 2yrs but I picked a very good smith that I knew going in had a long wait time and to make it worse I changed my mind and some of the parts and pieces part way thru the build. I'm not saying you did that but just giving you examples that there are others out there impatiently waiting just like yourself.

As for blowing you off, if that is in deed what is happening, now that part, IMHO, is inexcusable and I'm hoping there is just more to it than that and Mr. Tooley will have good reasoning behind it.

Hope this all turns out for you and remember, though it's not always the answer we want to hear, it's the end result that really matters.

 

[oregon]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

In addition to waiting for other suppliers possibly out of his control, probably has other guns in process, and do see Dave has been busy helping make positive improvements to shooting (as you probably already know) here at:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2129011

Communication is key - concerned about what seems to be a breakdown there. When problems occur of any kind, and they do in real life, it gives an opportunity for a vendor to impress (or push away) their customer(s). Repeat business and referrals are everything to most business operations - earned by treating customers who choose them well. Seems there is more to the situation. Possibly expectations were not set properly to begin with on one side or the other. Maybe Dave is waiting for one of the many unique suppliers to get your job moving, or something.

Have seen a similar thing several times when someone tries to build a home. Often it does not go as fast as desired when each step have to wait for pieces, a turn in line somewhere, and custom services by one-of-a-kind unique artists with lines of demands as well as unexpected interruptions. Priority is given to the most money by every contractor and supplier along the way. Just one situation with any step, for example with Tile installation, holds everything back from completion. Housing contractors who do repeat business and make lots of noise do not have to wait in line with vendors so gain unknown priority over the poor sap trying to build is one-off dream house. Do not know your specific situation in any way, while hope unexpected delay does not come from a focus on 'bigger' fish by someone along the way. It could be out of either of your control, as the tile example above. Money is the universal language of business and often drives project time-lines in unexpected ways.

Do hope you are surprised by Dave in a good way going forward. Possibly you feel the damage is already done and nothing will fix it right now. While this will be resolved somehow, and hope to your satisfaction!

Awesome parts and wish you all the best in getting the rifle together.

 

[jasonk]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

Agreeing with the above, I hate lead times and stuff out of everyones immediate control. I have no patience, I can admit that.

I always buy in stock parts and pieces or find them here in the for sale section. Then I send them all off to the gunsmith of my choosing. That way if there is any hold up at all I know exactly who to blame.....

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

My guess is that you have managed to piss off a gunsmith who's work is highly prized due to his finished product's quality. David delves into the truly unusual, such as the 338 Yogi, and does it well. Maybe that is why you chose him?
I have had to wait many months for builds when I had already supplied all the parts (not necessarily with Dave). It is no fun but sometimes it happens. It is sometimes hard to keep the disappointment of the wait in check. And gunsmiths can be a fickle lot.
I will make this observation. I would not come on here and start a flaming thread, valid or not, without having completed my profile.

 

[RBros]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

A smith should always communicate with their clients....with that said, keep in mind that Bartlein has been running 8 months to 1 year on getting barrels out. Bat Machine has been out as long as 10-12 months as well. I have had a receiver on order with them for almost 10 months now. Most smiths don't inventory alot if any parts, unless they do spec builds. There are alot of guys that are out 18-24 months on builds due to work load and waiting on parts. Dave has been in the game for along time and I am sure he will make it right.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

OP- Are you actually out any money or did Dave order and pay for the parts?

 

[jasonk]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OP- Are you actually out any money or did Dave order and pay for the parts?</div></div>

He said he sent a down payment, not sure how much but he is out some money at this point.

 

[Kevlars]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

My rifle build took about 12 months and I remember that the hardest thing was to wait ... do nothing... it sucked. But not haveing communication for that period of time (14 months) that would be rough. I know that the Gun industry, in general, moves at a snails pace. That is probably why I have not commissioned another build, although I really want a .338<sigh>.

From what the others have said about Dave, I am sure that he will make it right.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

Dave has built one rifle for me. That one was a great rifle and was built in a timely manner. I would not hesitate to have Dave build me another rifle if I was in need of some of the work in which he specializes.
I have a close friend who is also a gunsmith and I get to hear much of the inside talk. I can tell you if a gunsmith gives you a certain lead time estimate and as soon as you send him the money the phone calls begin it doesn't take long before you have pissed him off. There are many custom gun owners that have no idea how lucky they are to have that custom gun they called about every 2 weeks for 8 months. A gunsmith can't work on your gun if he stays on the phone every minute. Many times there are variables outside your gunsmith's control. Murphy's law plagues every gunsmith just like everyone else. I don't believe Dave is ignoring you, but if he is I am betting he has a pretty good reason.

 

[mgd45]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

It seems that there are just too many threads popping up here lately with pissed of customers complaining that the gunsmith is totally ignoring their phone calls....etc.

I had the privilege of spending a whole day with a very respected gunsmith in Georgia & watch him work. I can clearly see how much time of his day is spent working on one rifle (when he actually has all the parts available!) & how hard it would be to constantly stop & answer phone calls all day from customers, suppliers....etc...

That being said however....to run a good business, you can't ignore your paying customers. You should develop a business operating plan, such as having at least one person who can field phone calls during the day. Or decide that for the first hour & last hour of your day, you will return calls & emails to your PAYING CUSTOMERS about their rifle.

I am almost 90% positive that if a gunsmith spent simply 1 day every few weeks, sending out either emails or phone calls to customers, just basically keeping them informed of the progress that all this type of complaints would stop. If & when I decided to drop $3000 or more on a custom build, I will abide by the original time line & not call or bother the gunsmith.....

But when the original agreed upon time line comes & goes......I would expect to be updated on the progress by the builder without getting attitude or being ignored..... Is this too much to ask...?

 

[ranger1183]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

Sgt. Brumbaugh,

where are you stationed/living these days. The reason that I ask is that some gunsmiths require face to face visits (NOT face to face <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">CONFRONTATIONS!</span></span>) to become more customer response oriented. If you can make the trip, then you might want to consider going and having a heart to heart chat. If you don't get the warm and fuzzy you're looking for then consider picking up your parts and finding someone else to work with.

There are many good gunsmiths out there that offer very good customer service. Check out the rifle builders here on the Hide, read the reviews of their rifles, and phone or email a few to see who you think is going to give the feedback and updates that you want.

One lesson that I've experienced/learned is that what I want a gunsmith to do is to build a rifle, not have to get side-tracked by ordering parts. I track down all the parts for a build and send them to the gunsmith.

Pick your trigger, barrel, stock, action, rail, etc and mail that as a package to your gunsmith. I've met some gunsmiths who love this as all they have to do is open up a box, put together a rifle and send it back to you. For what it's worth, I've also met a few gunsmiths who view this practice as an insult. As if you're trying to "cheat" them out of their marked up prices. If that is the case, then move on to another builder.

As for rifle builders I cheer on the home team so for me living in Washington State I can recommend R-Bros Rifles ( www.rbrosrifles.com ), who has responded earlier to your post. R-Bros builds excellent rifles so you will not go wrong with them.

MT Guns ( www.mtguns.com ) in California is very experienced in building match rifles and did stellar work on my custom AICS build.

Jense Precision ( http://jenseprecision.com/ ) in Montana builds very high end custom rifles using ABS carbon fiber wrapped barrels (only) and is not only a great guy but a heck of a precise gunsmith.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...329#Post1014329

Plus there are dozens of excellent gunsmiths that you can choose on the Hide.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mgd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems that there are just too many threads popping up here lately with pissed of customers complaining that the gunsmith is totally ignoring their phone calls....etc. </div></div>

Now I remember why I am buying an AW.....

 

[ranger1183]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now I remember why I am buying an AW..... </div></div>
touché!

 

[Sgt. Brumbaugh]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

To answer a few questions:

I sent Dave a check for 2,000.00 in Jan 2010. He told me then all parts were on order. Come to find out the stock was never ordered. I do not know if the barrel ever was or not.

Like I said; I have built several rifles in the past. LA Sheriffs, Pomona PD, Torrance PD and several private parties own my rifles. I understand it takes time to get parts. I chose Dave because of his reputation in the .338's. I was willing to spend the time and money to get the best I could get, Bat action, custom dies, high end gunsmith, etc, etc. The problem was once he had my money he was nearly impossible to get in contact with. Numerous ignored phone calls and emails over a several month time span. I had to put up "is he still in business" posts on the internet to get a return phone call. THAT IS BS and he admits to it in the PM I got.

As far as completing my profile ? My name is John Brumbaugh. I was the chief ballistics and marksmanship instructor at the 1st. Marine Division Scout Sniper School from 1991-1994. I developed numerous formulas for long range shooting that the Marine Corps still uses today. I am no keyboard loud mouth if that was your insinuation.....

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

As far as completing my profile ? My name is John Brumbaugh. I was the chief ballistics and marksmanship instructor at the 1st. Marine Division Scout Sniper School from 1991-1994. I developed numerous formulas for long range shooting that the Marine Corps still uses today. I am no keyboard loud mouth if that was your insinuation.....

I'm not doubting who you are and that you are pissed at Dave Tooley. I just wonder if your thread was the right thing to do, especially considering the overwhelming support in his favor.
Also, I'd like to say thank you for your service.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now I remember why I am buying an AW..... </div></div>
touché! </div></div>

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

Dave has posted on this forum today.
Go here and send him a PM. Let him know what's on your mind.
Get it all worked out.
http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads....491#Post2452491

 

[QRE23]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

"What we have here is a failure to communicate"

Movie, Cool hand Luke

Sgt. IMO, even if you have pissed him off, and I'm not implying you have, the smith has an obligation to at the least communicate that to you and say he thinks your a PITA and he's sending you your money, parts, pieces and or whatever else pertains to your deposit/build. And I just hate it when anyone gives me the excuse, oh I've been so busy I haven't had time to email or call you. What that really means is I haven't wanted to take the time to communicate with you because I don't know ANYONE that can't find 5min. to reply to someone. Especially someone that you have taken $2k from and has obviously made an effort to contact you.

 

[Cut]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

cough, cough. Texas Brigade Armory. cough....

Went through some of the same issues with TBA. If I ever do another custom anything. The gunsmith will be driving distance from my house. If there is a issue, I'll just show up and correct the problem.

And yes, that's why I bought a AWSM. And I had no wait for that as well. Had it in a few days not 18+ months of BS excuses.

Cut

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

Guys it's all my fault. I had an overwhelming and at times stressful 2010 and some things fell through the cracks. John's was one project. I do get on a tear around here and stay focused when I have large time consuming projects and ignore the phone. Sometimes that's the only way I can get any work done being a one man shop.

To John I'm sorry it turned out this way.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

Now there's some "manning up".

 

[remau308]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave has posted on this forum today.
Go here and send him a PM. Let him know what's on your mind.
Get it all worked out.
http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads....491#Post2452491 </div></div>

Sooo, he can post for fun on snipershide, but he cannot return customers emails or phone calls. At least I know where NOT to send my stuff.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

Did you happen to read his open reply to the Sgt on this thread. The one where he openly apologizes and accepts responsibility for his mistake?
Let's let the OP and Mr. Tooley work it out from here.

 

[remau308]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

Yes, I actually hit reply before he posted and apologized, but he posted submit before I did, so my post is after his. That is still pretty unacceptable for anyone, but it is good that he publicly apologized.

 

[sirspeedy]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

I have a couple of guns Mr Tooley built and they are worth the wait. I bugged the shit out of him for my first build and it took about 2 years (with the wait of the Bat action/barrel/barreled action painting/McMillian stock order included). He will get the work done. Super guy to deal with.

 

[forsyth793]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

I have had work sent off to many different armorers/gunsmiths/machinist. I have heard many different reasons/excuses, too cold, fire, divorce, medical reasons and just plane old sorriness. The work that Dave Tooley did for me was way above and beyond my usual expectations. Thanks Dave for a great 6MMBR.

Spike

 

[jetmd]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

Sgt. B,

I hope this all works out.

If you come to a resolution, please let it be know. No need for details as that does not involve others, just that you guys got it taken care of.

Examples like this make me thankful that I have GA Precision and Manners 15 minutes from my home!

Good Luck Sgt. B

 

[JxMAN25]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

I can understand ignoringbthe phone. A gunsmith tuat i work with can sometimes get 20 Phone calls a day. But he still does answer all of them in the most respectfull way possible. Jesse

 

[Bluejazz]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

I will have to side with Sgt Brumbaugh on this one.
As far as I am concerned if your gunsmith can't find 5 min of time to respond to you after taking $2000.00 of your money, that is a lack of respect for a client and uncalled for.
I do give Mr. Tooley high marks for character in his apology, but at this point does not excuse past behavior.
I hope they are able to work it out, but at this point, I too would just want my parts and move on.

 

[Lofty]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

Christ, what a good problem to have.....taking two years to build a rifle?

 

[goober]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

I couldn't agree more with this statement Bluejazz , unacceptable behavior by Dave Tooley -there are ways to do business and professional expectations one can and should be able to expect from any business person and this is not one of them !Why oh why ??do people front up and say what a great guy and gunsmith someone is when they have completely let a customer down and + totally negate the abysmal behavior and contempt the smith has shown a paid up customer

 

[bohem]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

I really try to avoid these threads where someone is unhappy with performance by a given rifle builder, but this is rather embarassing at this point.

Dave Tooley publicly apologized and offered to work things out however it's going to happen with the OP. That doesn't seem to satiate the vultures that want to throw in their 2cents to kick someone AFTER having taken responsibility to make it right.

Anyone here know who Fred Wells was? His rifles were a 3-5 YEAR lead time and he built them from scratch until he was in his nineties. The premier hunting rifle community knew the value in waiting for a rifle from Mr. Wells, and I would dare say that the admonishers in this thread don't understand the value of a rifle built by Mr. Tooley.

I see a customer who contacted Dave, couldn't reach him, went to the forum, and Dave flat out said "My mistake, I'm sorry." Problem over, get off his ass.

Just to be clear, I have absolutely no affiliation with Mr. Tooley, I know him through a couple of PM's regarding some questions that I had and by reputation, the reputation being what drove me to contacting him in the first place. Those of you who've never spoken to him but still feel the need to jump on his back without understanding or just because you want your free ounce of flesh are despicable.

Those of you who are convinced from 1 person that they shouldn't send a rifle to Mr. Tooley for work... fine. I'll take your spot in line, I know that what I get from him will be worth the wait. This is like watching little kids on the playground go after the new kid at recess.

 

[Tunanut]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I couldn't agree more with this statement Bluejazz , unacceptable behavior by Dave Tooley -there are ways to do business and professional expectations one can and should be able to expect from any business person and this is not one of them !<span style="font-weight: bold">Why oh why ??do people front up and say what a great guy and gunsmith someone is</span> when they have completely let a customer down and + totally negate the abysmal behavior and contempt the smith has shown a paid up customer </div></div>

Because he is an outstanding riflesmith. He makes precision rifles with an attention to detail that I haven't found in other smiths. He's jammed up with work for a reason and if you're not willing to wait for his quality of work, have someone else do it. There are plenty of good smiths out there, but what I've found is the better the smith, the longer the wait. Of the 10 rifles I own, the two Dave built surpass, in some cases far surpass, the work done by other smiths. If Dave told me 14 months on a build, I'd put my patience hat on and wait because I know the end result will be a precision rifle that will outshoot me. If a speedy job is what you're looking for, Dave is not the go to guy. What I've found in smiths in general is that the more you bug them, the slower the job.

 

[Jaxdialation]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

It is embarrassing that you misread Dave's post. He didn't offer to work things out.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but this is rather embarassing at this point.

Dave Tooley publicly apologized and <span style="font-weight: bold">offered to work things out</span> however it's going to happen with the OP.</div></div>

 

[goober]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

What fascinates me about this thread other than some acceptance of poor service and unacceptable communications is the picture some have this particular smiths showing god like ability's ?
Start with a good action -something that doesn't need truing up like a barnard for example -a good barrel , plenty in the States and a reasonable trigger .So what is the smith going to do other than cut the thread and head space the rifle -it aint that hard and a average machinist can do it. We fit the stock and bed it -I do my own and I got two left hands .There aint nothing god like in smithing a new rifle .If its going to take 14 months to still have nothing delivered DT should be in control of his shop and let the customer know - not out of control -not even answer the client in a reasonable time and EVEN worse on his post not offer to fix the situation . Read his post again , still no fix offered.
I have no doubt DT is a nice chap just needs to adjust his customer service policy.Maybe you guys should start sending your gear down to New Zealand to get built, . My own rifle I went in and watched the barrel maker build the rifle in the morning including make the barrel , fit the action to the stock -it shoot 1/4 moa no probs,

Guys it's all my fault. I had an overwhelming and at times stressful 2010 and some things fell through the cracks. John's was one project. I do get on a tear around here and stay focused when I have large time consuming projects and ignore the phone. Sometimes that's the only way I can get any work done being a one man shop.

To John I'm sorry it turned out this way.

 

[Bluejazz]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

Bohem,
Normally I enjoy reading your posts, but you miss the point on this one.
My comment had nothing to do with Mr Tooley's workmanship, only his lack of communication skills.
Also, please note that I gave Mr Tooley high character credit for offering a apology. It is up to the OP as to whether to accept it or not.
I will tell you that in my line of work, if you don't perform it costs you money. Does not seem to be the case in the gunsmithing industry.
As a general contractor, I have set deadlines to meet, and if they are not met, then liquidated damages come in to play. Sometimes in the amount of $1,000/ per day.
I have had a couple of custom rifle builds take alot longer than scheduled by the gunsmith, but because of good communication between the client and the smith, everything was fine. The whole point of the thread is the fact that Mr. Tooley did not communicate with the OP, not his workmanship.

 

[QRE23]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

ch'e, I have to agree with alot of what you said and go one step further and point out that Sgt. used a top shelf receiver which makes the overall job take much less time. Also, unless something/s was changed on the build sheet along the way, that is more than enough time to have recieved all the parts and pieces. A good smith could easily put this build together in a couple of days if he wanted to.

A "reputation" can be a tricky thing. Sometimes it works in your favor, sometimes it works against you.

 

[Rifle Barrel Blanks]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

The one problem I see is this:

Someone gives a gunsmith his parts to build a rifle and some cash as a deposit. The gunsmith says I can't promise that this thing will be done in under 9-12 months. Longer is usually the case. Than after a few months the person getting the rifle build is starting to get impatient and didn't realize the actual timE commitment it takes. The guy starts to complain and whine and call and call and it gets real annoying. The last thing the gunsmith wants to do is waste even more time call this annoying guy because he could bs isn't his time doing other things like chambering barrels and making everything go bang. Just the way I see it.

So everyone know I too have no relation with mr. Tooley. I have only heard he make some of the best guns out there.

Thanks for listening to my point...

 

[Cheech]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

In my business experience as a custom builder in two other venues, when a customer sends the agreed upon amount weather full or down payment he buys a "production slot", weather it starts in two days or two years. No one knows your buisness, vendors, schedule, etc. better than you. His job takes precedents over the next unless forfeit by his actions or lack there of. Put it in writing for future reference for <span style="font-style: italic">both</span> as a reminder to what they agreed to. It's his time, bought and payed for, not the next swinging dick's with a fatter wallet. First come first serve. Find a secondary customer too good to let slip by?.... work more hours or don't take funds up front. It's called "scheduling".

Problems with parts?,materials?, time?....communication is your friend. Make a call with a request for time and offer some compensation or legitimate explanation, stick to your word and live with your commitment. Most customers are more understanding than they're given credit for. Then again some aren't and prefer to be argumentative and impatient. But one never knows without a call. Refer back to the written words of the agreement. There's always the "full refund".

Anything less will come back to bite you in the ass.

A customer is a customer, and should be highly prized and regarded with the utmost respect no matter the dollar amount. Each party has to do their part, as agreed, to the best of their reasonable ability.

Just another measly two cents.

Hope it all works out with both parties satisfied.

 

[eddybo]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

Shit happens, Dave will amke it right. Let it rest. He had communication problems with one guy, no telling how many guys have gotten great builds from Mr. Tooley. He is a wealth of information and a great guy to deal with according to every other source of information I am privy to. Sooner or later evryone is going to have a dissatisfied customer, how you handle it after the problem arises is the question. I think Mr. Tooley has taken a great step in that regard.

 

[goober]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shit happens, Dave will amke it right. Let it rest. He had communication problems with one guy, no telling how many guys have gotten great builds from Mr. Tooley. He is a wealth of information and a great guy to deal with according to every other source of information I am privy to. Sooner or later evryone is going to have a dissatisfied customer, how you handle it after the problem arises is the question. <span style="color: #FF0000">I think Mr. Tooley has taken a great step in that regard</span>. </div></div>

I wonder which step that is that you are referring to as it certainly doesn't appear here yet !!!! Stop making excuse for bad customer service -people like you foster the ability for bad service to be seen as acceptable -why dont you let it rest instead

 

[ANGLICOMarine]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

It took me 18 months to get my TBA back in 99' I have since gone with KMW, TacOps and Warner Tool and could not be more pleased.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cough, cough. Texas Brigade Armory. cough....

Went through some of the same issues with TBA. If I ever do another custom anything. The gunsmith will be driving distance from my house. If there is a issue, I'll just show up and correct the problem.

And yes, that's why I bought a AWSM. And I had no wait for that as well. Had it in a few days not 18+ months of BS excuses.

Cut

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[Sniperhandle]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

After I got to the bottom of this thread, I had to ask myself why I wasted my time reading a post about shitting on someone, I wont do it again, there are to many good posts that you can actually learn something from.

 

[tigerhawk]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

I do not know Mr. Tooley, and have had no dealings with him.

I do want to say that there is one point regarding long wait times that a lot of people seem to not realize: The time will go by either way. I never ordered a rifle from Fred Wells because I, at first, was put off by his wait time. Now, he is dead, and the end of the waiting period he quoted me is now years past. If I had ordered the rifle, I would now have owned it for years, and would care a lot less about the wait time than I now care about not owning one of his rifles.

These days, if I find a gunsmith of that caliber (pun intended) who builds the kind of rifle that I want, I simply order one, and do not worry about the wait time. I figure that, if the wait time is 5 years, at least it will be a lot easier for me to come up with the money. As long as I know that the gunsmith deals with people ethically, which to me <span style="font-weight: bold">would</span> include communication if the delivery time needs to be changed, I am not concerned.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

Just when this thread should have been locked and boxed a new crop of armchair gunsmiths come out batting for the poor screwed customer. So you have seen a gun being built and it just doesn't take long. A custom action is even faster to build. Wow why don't you guys buy a lathe and a milling machine and go in business. Mr Brumbaugh said in one of his posts that he builds his own guns but wanted Dave's expertise on this build. There is more to both sides of the story that you haven't heard and have absolutely no business hearing. When Dave answered the thread it should have ended but it seems even people 8,000 miles away seem to think they have a dog in this hunt. This should have never been put on a public forum, that was in extremely bad taste. I am betting the OP will be making all his guns in the future whether he wants to or not.

 

[QRE23]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

The OP couldn't get Mr. Tooley to answer his email and or phone calls. He had $2k of the mans money. What should he have done, called the police in Mr. Tooley's home town and gone that route? I would have been a little ticked myself if someone had 2grand of my money and wouldn't respond to me. Don't you find it a bit interesting that the OP couldn't get him to respond by phone or email for some time but it sure didn't take long when he posted here, now did it.

I'm sure Mr. Tooley is a fantastic gunsmith and probably a wonderful person but good gunsmiths are like good barrels. There is no one "best" but rather alot of VERY good ones. This is why I said in an earlier post that a "reputation" can be a dagerous thing. I'm not much of a gambler but I would bet when Mr. Tooley was a younger man and more "hungry" for work he NEVER would have let this happen.

Also, if you think for a second that a top quality receiver like BAT produces takes the same time to build a rifle on that a factory donor receiver does you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Factory actions take considerable more time to build on because the smith has to spend time blueprinting a factory receiver. In fact I know smiths that have such a backlog of work that they will no longer even accept anything but custom actions because the factory actions are taking up to much of their time and slowing their build times.

Nobody is saying Mr. Tooley is a no good SOB. Everyone knows he is among some of the best smiths out there, but, for whatever reason, he dropped the ball with this guy and sometimes things like this make us the better for it. My guess is Mr. Tooley is a little embarrassed, as should he, but that's ok because I don't know anyone no matter how good they are that can't benefit from a piece of humble pie every once in awhile.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

I did not say a custom action wasn't faster to "put together" nothing I have said indicates I do not know what I am talking about. It takes time to get a custom action. Maybe the action was in his shop and maybe it was backordered with a lead time of 6-12 months. I don't know and neither does anyone besides Mr Tooley and Mr Brumbaugh, that was my point. It is their business. Dave appologized to Mr Brumbaugh and at this point it is between them but some here who have no vested interest seem to think they are owed an explaination. I know exactly what it takes to build a rifle I am good friends with one of the best smiths I have ever known. I have a rifle in his shop and I told him last night to take his time. I am in his shop on a regular basis and have extensive knowledge of what goes on when a new reamer is bad or an ordered part slips through the cracks on the vendors end. If you want to talk about folks not knowing what they are talking about then how about people who get on an internet forum and lambaste a gunsmith they have never met with only a small piece of information. What has transpired between these two parties is none of my business or yours at this point.
To my knowledge Dave is a one man band. I have met a few people like that in my life. In my experience they tend to be the best of the best but every customer is not always completely satisfied. They are stretched very thin because they do the work themselves because they cannot trust their name and reputation in the hands of an employee. I have personal experience with this as my father was a master plumber who ran his own business and he was the man who did all the work. He had more than a few customers who were unhappy because he was not there when he said he would be there. Things happen, trucks break,machines break, parts are sometimes unavailable etc. My father took 2 vacations I can remember in 20 years as a contractor. That is a big reason I reserve my judgement until I have heard all the details of this situation.

 

[goober]

Re: Dave Tooley; send me my rifle parts !!!

I think that nobody here has questioned DT ability as a smith but his customer service policy is what is in question !
Armchair smith's has been mentioned here -dont so ignorant or doubht for a minute customers are ignorant of how a rifle is built -people that think this are the classic protectors of bad practices and think smithing is voodoo -its not , especially with actions that are true !This conversation surpases DT and really digs at the practices of those that choose to provide a poor service because theyre slack ,it also unviels the voodoo of god like smithing -wake up