David Miller Rifles

[kthomas]

Anyone here familiar with David Miller Rifles?

They are high end custom hunting rifles, made in my current city of Tucson AZ. Never heard of this outfit until last night, when a friend brought them up.

If you thought Gunwerks rifles were expensive hunting rifles, these rifles start at $35,000 and go up from there. Looks like beautiful work for what they do, but damn the prices are high. I'm not sure what these have over say a Joel Russo stock and a high end custom action, but I must say I'm intrigued.

Anyone know anything about these rifles and their history? I can't find a website, and there's the odd thing posted on the internet, mostly hunting forums. There's also a book made about them.

 

[kthomas]

Apparently they set some records for custom rifle prices back in the day, according to Field & Stream.

In 1982, they sold a rifle for ~40,000, which set a record for the time. Then a few years later, sold one for $201,000, which set another record.

 

[kthomas]

Also, all they use to my knowledge are M70 actions, shipped to them "in the white", where they do a bunch of work to them.

Allegedly, they helped design the M70 action.

 

[kthomas]

Here's some pictures:

 

[acudaowner]

very pretty rifles indeed .

 

[GMZ]

Incredible.

Hand engraving and XXX wood drive prices up like a Saturn V.

 

[308pirate]

Anyone here familiar with David Miller Rifles?

They are high end custom hunting rifles, made in my current city of Tucson AZ. Never heard of this outfit until last night, when a friend brought them up.

If you thought Gunwerks rifles were expensive hunting rifles, these rifles start at $35,000 and go up from there. Looks like beautiful work for what they do, but damn the prices are high. I'm not sure what these have over say a Joel Russo stock and a high end custom action, but I must say I'm intrigued.

Anyone know anything about these rifles and their history? I can't find a website, and there's the odd thing posted on the internet, mostly hunting forums. There's also a book made about them.

No different than premium shotguns.

This is the low end of premium

Kolar Max Lite Sporting Quail Custom 12ga 32in - Michigan Shooting Centers

For sale is a brand new Kolar Max Lite Sporting hand-engraved in America by Jon Novak. Features elegant, deep-relief scroll work and quail accents in the bullino style. Exhibition grade right handed CFD (clays fixed drop) stock with left handed wood available on request. Supplied with 5 titanium...

mishoot.com

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Custom Made Guns Bring in Big Bucks

Hand crafted hunting rifles are in demand and they don't come cheap.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[blbennett1288]

$40k rifle with Leupold...classic

 

[RTH1800]

They make a 25-30 k plus rifle with a synthetic stock.
Dave and Curt Crum (metal work) are Coues deer fanatics and were achieving consistent accuracy prior to it being a common thing.

 

[hlee]

Just like anything else, there is a point at which you are no longer paying for performance alone...

 

[Cardinal]

I suppose you would buy a Miller rifle for the same reasons you might buy a Holland & Holland or Purdey "best English" rifle (or a bespoke Rolls Royce). Or rather an American variant of those, to more American specs and design features
H&H bolt gun starts at £49000 (Mauser 98 style action) but IMHO Millers dont have the history and nostagia of a Best English gun.

 

[RTH1800]

Not going to have resale value for sure.

 

[davsco]

absolutely beautiful! but i'm a big function over form guy and no way would i be taking anything close to that out in the field. i mean crap i'd have to box it up in the safe just so it wouldn't get any dings.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

way more interested in custom scopes the rifles.

i wonder how much a custom scope would actually cost.

a 2-12, 10 mil turret, ez set zero stop.

reticle has3 mil of windage, 8 on the vertical..

illumination and parallax. locking windage.

30 plus on erector. 30mm main tube

under 15 oz

great glass.

bomb proof.

give me about 10 of them.

 

[kthomas]

I suppose you would buy a Miller rifle for the same reasons you might buy a Holland & Holland or Purdey "best English" rifle (or a bespoke Rolls Royce). Or rather an American variant of those, to more American specs and design features
H&H bolt gun starts at £49000 (Mauser 98 style action) but IMHO Millers dont have the history and nostagia of a Best English gun.

When I started reading up about these Miller Rifles, I immediately thought of H&H. I've heard a lot about H&H, but thought it was interesting that up to this point have heard pretty much nothing about Dave Miller Rifles. And I find it especially interesting now that I'm located in the same city as them, that there is a custom hunting rifle company that performs work that would be considered comparable to H&H.

 

[kthomas]

absolutely beautiful! but i'm a big function over form guy and no way would i be taking anything close to that out in the field. i mean crap i'd have to box it up in the safe just so it wouldn't get any dings.

I love using rifles I own. They are tools, and I'm going to use them as such. All of my custom rifles show some level of use (and maybe what some would consider abuse), including my TacOps rifle.

I couldn't imagine taking a ~$50,000 rifle out for a hunt, then dinging the wood stock and immediately devaluing it (and probably by a large margin).

 

[3-0-hate]

I wouldn’t even consider a rifle half that price, unless it came with an Elk down guarantee, good for every year it hits the field.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

if you think of these kinds of rifles as pieces of art makes a lot more sense.

no use for the gun but if my bank account gets another zero i might consider.

 

[kthomas]

I wouldn’t even consider a rifle half that price, unless it came with an Elk down guarantee, good for every year it hits the field.

I have a hard time with the idea of spending a lot of money on something that's aesthetically beautiful, just to take it out in the field to beat the shit out of it.

Personally, if I was making a money is no object hunting rifle, I would take a barreled Mausingfield and put it in something like a Russo stock, and come out tens of thousands of dollars ahead. Or I would see what Chad Dixon could come up with for a Mausingfield based hunting rifle.

I get that these are supposed to be working pieces of art (much like H&H), but the two objectives are almost mutually exclusive (exquisite piece of art, and hard use tool for the field). Hunting with such a gun seems akin to going for a paddle board with the Mona Lisa.

 

[FCrifles]

David and Curt have been around a long time. I remember when his base custom rifle was $8,000 that was back around 1995'ish

 

[kthomas]

David and Curt have been around a long time. I remember when his base custom rifle was $8,000 that was back around 1995'ish

The way the history is written on this company, I almost interpret it in a way that makes me think that Dave Miller and Curt Crum were integral in popularizing and bringing value to custom rifles in the US market.

 

[swampbuck]

Fact of the matter is some people are just that wealthy. They think no more about buying a 50k rifle than I think about buying a newspaper. It's capitalism. American's have been extremely successful and it shows. Just think of the success that is represented here on the hide. Think of all the businesses that have at least a 3 month back log for our relatively small community. McMillian, Manners, Bartlein, Defiance.

Think about the cardiologist who put in your old man's pacemaker, now think about the engineer and biophysics guy who made that pacemaker.

I'm from Mississippi. One of the most rural and impoverished states in the union. Even so we have had a few success stories,. Oprah Winfrey, Faith Hill, Elvis Presley, Brett Favre, Jim Henson, Jerry Rice, John Grisham.

Just because you may not be in the market for a $50,000 rifle don't think that a market isn't out there. Don't forget that we live in the wealthiest nation that the world has ever known

 

[kthomas]

Fact of the matter is some people are just that wealthy. They think no more about buying a 50k rifle than I think about buying a newspaper. It's capitalism. American's have been extremely successful and it shows. Just think of the success that is represented here on the hide. Think of all the businesses that have at least a 3 month back log for our relatively small community. McMillian, Manners, Bartlein, Defiance.

Think about the cardiologist who put in your old man's pacemaker, now think about the engineer and biophysics guy who made that pacemaker.

I'm from Mississippi. One of the most rural and impoverished states in the union. Even so we have had a few success stories,. Oprah Winfrey, Faith Hill, Elvis Presley, Brett Favre, Jim Henson, Jerry Rice, John Grisham.

Just because you may not be in the market for a $50,000 rifle don't think that a market isn't out there. Don't forget that we live in the wealthiest nation that the world has ever known

Agreed.

And obviously there's a market, these guys are setting world records and don't even have a website!

I'm not knocking them at all, but at the same time I wish I could afford a $100,000 hunting rifle, or have enough money to buy the mona lisa and take it paddle boarding.

 

[swampbuck]

Me too!!

 

[kirby13]

I have a 308 norma magnum rifle made by H.L. Miller. Wonder if it's any relation to David Miller. Been trying to find info on him to no avail.

 

[carbonbased]

At a certain level of engraving, fancy wood, and other detail I start having this near-irresistible urge to drag the thing across a bunch of sharp rocks lol.

Kind of like the urge to jump when you get close to a cliff’s edge. Mungo smash precious thing!

 

[RTH1800]

My first thought would be unlikely to no. Miller is a very common surname.


If you are interested why not call Dave? I think he is still around Tucson.

 

[Supersubes]

The way the history is written on this company, I almost interpret it in a way that makes me think that Dave Miller and Curt Crum were integral in popularizing and bringing value to custom rifles in the US market.

Its been a while, have you contacted them yet to have a chat? Maybe get a shop tour?

I check english double prices from time to time. The H&H Royal double starts at $189k US. The Rigby’s starts at $151k US. The bolt guns are $57k and $37k respectively.

If you ever get to the safari club show, both are typically there along with some others. They’re usually quite happy to let you fondle the guns.

 

[Terry Cross]

Anyone here familiar with David Miller Rifles?

They are high end custom hunting rifles, made in my current city of Tucson AZ. Never heard of this outfit until last night, when a friend brought them up.

If you thought Gunwerks rifles were expensive hunting rifles, these rifles start at $35,000 and go up from there. Looks like beautiful work for what they do, but damn the prices are high. I'm not sure what these have over say a Joel Russo stock and a high end custom action, but I must say I'm intrigued.

Anyone know anything about these rifles and their history? I can't find a website, and there's the odd thing posted on the internet, mostly hunting forums. There's also a book made about them.

David Miller has been building really nice rifles for decades.
He got very busy due to building nice rifles and over time totally used the success to narrow his lane, raise his prices and steer his business into a clientele niche he wanted to serve.

If a person wanted to make a good living building rifles, premium hunting rifles is THE way to go rather than doing what my hard headed ass is doing.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

Allegedly, they helped design the M70 action.

I would be skeptical.
The Pre-64 design was laid down in print a good bit before anyone associated with that shop existed.

They/he may have certainly designed some refinements that he incorporates specifically into his rifles which would be perfectly logical and expected.

.

 

[Terry Cross]

Here's some pictures:

View attachment 7537951

Top rifle in this picture totally makes me moist.

That is the rifle I would take on a once in a lifetime, bucket list hunt,
actually hunt hard and wear my ass out to kill an equally beautiful animal and
then when I am too old to get around much anymore, take it out of the safe just to hold it in my lap
to appreciate it while I drink good whiskey and sit in a big ass rocking chair on my front porch.

Fuck depreciation and a scratch. I wouldn't be buying such a rifle as an investment.
For sure I would not abuse it, but I wouldn't deny it the chance to draw blood.

Thanks for sharing the hot pics.

.

 

[powdahound76]

Thinking about @Terry Cross moist kinda wrecked my appetite for a second breakfast of bacon and eggs this AM…..




Agree though.

A fine rifle, memories, and whisky in a rocker sound like a good old man activity.

 

[308pirate]

Top rifle in this picture totally makes me moist..

I'll fight for the one in the middle

 

[Terry Cross]

I'll fight for the one in the middle

That is my close 2nd. Would have been my 1st but for the silver highlight hardware in the middle.
Diff strokes for diff folks.
All are F'ing beautiful.

.

 

[458win]

If still taking orders it will be a 3-5 year wait for a DM rifle. They don’t advertise and turn people away. The market sets the price and there are people more then willing to pay it. If you don’t think they hold resale…. Try to find a used one.
The market they pursue are people that have both the means and desires to have a total custom hunting rifle built to them. (Not a action barreled and thrown in a synthetic stock). Miller rifles may be equaled but never surpassed quality wise. However they have the reputation which lets them set the price.
They didn’t design the M70 action but do refinements to it that make a great action even better.
Every rifle they make is designed to be hunted with and used. As my old gunsmith told me long ago “if you can’t afford to hunt with it you can’t afford it” …. Just like his take on expensive cars. “If you have to ask about the price of insurance you can’t afford it.”
They are not for everyone, actually not for the vast majority of people. Proven by the comments to this thread.

 

[kthomas]

I would be skeptical.
The Pre-64 design was laid down in print a good bit before anyone associated with that shop existed.

They/he may have certainly designed some refinements that he incorporates specifically into his rifles which would be perfectly logical and expected.

.

That's a beyond valid point, I must've misunderstood or mistook the context of the statement I saw. I can't remember where I even read that at this point.

 

[308pirate]

Not a action barreled and thrown in a synthetic stock

Yeah, I LOL at what I see some people here consider to be a custom rifle.

 

[308pirate]

That is my close 2nd. Would have been my 1st but for the silver highlight hardware in the middle.
Diff strokes for diff folks.
All are F'ing beautiful.

.

These two are sexy AF

 

[moosemeat]

Top rifle in this picture totally makes me moist.

That is the rifle I would take on a once in a lifetime, bucket list hunt,
actually hunt hard and wear my ass out to kill an equally beautiful animal and
then when I am too old to get around much anymore, take it out of the safe just to hold it in my lap
to appreciate it while I drink good whiskey and sit in a big ass rocking chair on my front porch.

Fuck depreciation and a scratch. I wouldn't be buying such a rifle as an investment.
For sure I would not abuse it, but I wouldn't deny it the chance to draw blood.

Thanks for sharing the hot pics.

.

Can't you just build your own? I know that level of stock work is probably specialized, but, I mean, your Terry Cross...

 

[264win]

Miller rifles are all incredible, and not in my price range.
I have had the chance to handle and shoot a couple. They do feel and function as nice as they look. I remember years ago they would fit the stock to the customer much like higher end shotguns. And built every scope ring / base individually for a particular scope. Not a brand or model, but one scope so the fit & alignment would be perfect.

 

[308pirate]

Miller rifles are all incredible, and not in my price range.
I have had the chance to handle and shoot a couple. They do feel and function as nice as they look. I remember years ago they would fit the stock to the customer much like higher end shotguns. And built every scope ring / base individually for a particular scope. Not a brand or model, but one scope so the fit & alignment would be perfect.

The only thing I would do different is specify that he use a rail mounted scope, Sexy, with no rings to spoil the lines

 

[Terry Cross]

Can't you just build your own? I know that level of stock work is probably specialized, but, I mean, your Terry Cross...

Yes, I could build my own.
My finished product would look like a 3yr old did it compared to the pics above.

What I see in the photos above is the result of years and years of honing his specific art and doing so with a lot of passion. That level of execution is very refined for his specific vertical market of user and is not necessarily transferable to other rifles meant for other uses.

I have also put in years and years of honing my specific art and continue to do so with a lot of passion.
I work very hard to be the best I can at exactly what I do and will put my rifles up against any other maker my typical end user may be looking at.

I think there is still room for innovation and improvement in my own lane so I will stay in it.
Besides, I'm not very bright and partially inbred.

 

[KineticPerformance]

As a kid in the 90s, and to this day, the Miller scope mount was the coolest thing I'd ever seen since it is machined to for the turret housing. They were, and always will be, out of my budget but they are cool as hell.

 

[kthomas]

Reviving this thread.

Anyone know how I can get in touch with Dave Miller/Curt Crum?

 

[RTH1800]

They were out of Tucson iirc. Certainly Arizona.
Both would be getting up in years now.

 

[kthomas]

They were out of Tucson iirc. Certainly Arizona.
Both would be getting up in years now.

Yeah, they are in the city I currently reside in.

Can't find any website or contact info for them. Google says they are "temporarily closed".

 

[RTH1800]

I think both would be 80 or so. Probably not working now.

 

[isofahunter]

Afraid you missed your chance to speak to David:

David Allen Miller - View Obituary & Service Information

Share Memories and Support the Family.

www.evergreenmortuary-cemetery.com

520 326 3117 was the phone number, not sure anyone is there.

 

[kthomas]

I figured I was going to be too late.

Thanks.