Anybody using David Tubb's Leupold Mark 8 scope with his DTR reticle ? If so - how do you like the reticle.
http://www.davidtubb.com/dtr-scopes?product_id=153
http://www.davidtubb.com/dtr-scopes?product_id=153
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Rifle Scopes David Tubb's Leupold Mark 8 scope with his DTR reticle ?
- Thread starter zipollini
- Start date
Tagging in on this one. I read the manual and watched the videos, seems to make a lot of sense and he shoots it really well. Interested in others thoughts too.
I've read the manual and played around with the simulator. Seems to make a lot of sense. Seems very fast. I've figured out the Xmas tree part of it as well as both the ranging marks but still have to figure out the density altitude correction part and the mover part. Here is the simulator link.
http://www.davidtubb.com/Training
Seems like one of the things I wanted to go back and research was the 'compatible with' for the different calibers. I'm shooting 140gr 6.5 Creedmoor, and with the V2 reticle, I wanted to understand the adjustments, if any.
I like the concept and the reticle but no way I'm paying that much money for those Leupold scopes.
If I did buy one, I would dial in the load, using a self timing muzzle brake as a barrel harmonics adjuster, for the ballistics DT intended.
If I did buy one, I would dial in the load, using a self timing muzzle brake as a barrel harmonics adjuster, for the ballistics DT intended.
Very interested in this also. I bought a premier 5-25 w/dtr and have no idea how to use it yet ??
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I’ve only shot factory ammo up to this point but I’m thinking I’m going to have to start handloading so my actual data matches as closely as possible to the reticle.
I’m going to play around when I get time to see what factory 6 and 6.5 Creed ammo most closely matches the V2 version of the reticle and will report back eventually haha
.I’ve only shot factory ammo up to this point but I’m thinking I’m going to have to start handloading so my actual data matches as closely as possible to the reticle.
I’m going to play around when I get time to see what factory 6 and 6.5 Creed ammo most closely matches the V2 version of the reticle and will report back eventually haha
yup, I'd have to get the mark 6 if anything. I see a premier with dtr mentioned above, any other scopes with the reticle?
I shot a 6xc and David's new .375 cartridge using his DTR reticle. It is really not hard once you watch a few videos and read the manual. You have to do a few short math problems in your head and you don't really have to "match" you load to the reticle unless you just want to. You also get an app for your ipad or iPhone so there is that. I am going to get one but I don't like the leupold scopes that much, but a buddy just won the sniper comp with his MK8 Leupold so they cant be that bad. I used the training tool and I was able to hit targets with no math, the longer targets took some thinking.
I've been playing with the simulator for the last week and think I have everything figured out. It really is very fast and intuitive once you understand it. The gyroscopic progression corrections in the reticle are gold. Not sure what else one could put in the reticle. Looks like it has almost everything covered. If it didn't cost $ 5200 I would be all over it but I would take too much of a hit to sell my NF BEAST which is up for sale :-(
Leupold Mark 5 - 5x25 with DTR v2D coming soon.
About 1/2 the price of the Mark 8.
About 1/2 the price of the Mark 8.
Excited to see this. I've been eyeing the MK5 but not really into any of the current reticle offerings.
Good points. My understanding is that reticle is designed to work within certain parameters (within a bc range and within a velocity range).
I just wanted to see, mostly for fun, how close the available factory ammo out there right now could get to lining up with the values in the reticle without additional calculations given a set DA/weather condition.
But, I’m continuing to procrastinate reading the manual on this and actually doing the work to find this info out hahaha
The DTR reticle is designed to hold yards/meters for distance (or a corrected atmospheric distance yard/meter hold point) and call the wind in MPH and hold a corrected vector angle mph hold point. No conversion back and forth between mils/ Moa to yards/meters and MPH wind.
If you shoot at a 600 yard target and hold 5 mph (centered hit) and then you engage a 900 yard target at the same vector angle you already know the wind hold.
What could be simpler.
Thanks I get that
Thanks I get that idea. My question was a total gear lower - using the scope as a spotter and calling corrections for mixed systems.
Using my scope to spot my “correction” call to my partner might be L.6 -
Is there also a mil scale for wind? Or are you suggesting after he missed, I tell him “correction L 3MPH”
Thanks I get that idea. My question was a total gear lower - using the scope as a spotter and calling corrections for mixed systems.
Using my scope to spot my “correction” call to my partner might be L.6 -
Is there also a mil scale for wind? Or are you suggesting after he missed, I tell him “correction L 3MPH”
Using the same type of system between shooter and spotter is important. This reticle is a positive step away from convention.
If you remember, back in the day, Leupolds had minute turrets with mil reticles. Was confusing until you spent enough time with it.
In this case, the reticle will work best as a lone shooter, spotting your own shots, or having same data in a team. Calling data for someone with a different system wont work well with this reticle. For same data in a team, your spotter would hold your same hold and watch for impact. Once the impact is seen, correction would be called in distance hold and MPH of wind +/-. Such as "Impact, low. Come up to 980 and hold 12MPH. Send it."
FWIW, just the mussings of an idiot.
If you remember, back in the day, Leupolds had minute turrets with mil reticles. Was confusing until you spent enough time with it.
In this case, the reticle will work best as a lone shooter, spotting your own shots, or having same data in a team. Calling data for someone with a different system wont work well with this reticle. For same data in a team, your spotter would hold your same hold and watch for impact. Once the impact is seen, correction would be called in distance hold and MPH of wind +/-. Such as "Impact, low. Come up to 980 and hold 12MPH. Send it."
FWIW, just the mussings of an idiot.
But the communication should not include conversion time or extra words.
Correction L.4; U.2 ...roger.. bang done.. kinda keeps the wind in the same value.
Hold is one of those funky words not needed unless one means pause .. don’t shoot
You can still do that with the DTR. Assuming all the spotter would say is “hit,” or give you a correction. Example: “1010” or “980, 5mph.” This all takes the same amount of time as “L4,R2.”
I think you missed the point.
It’s a third system when most everything in PR, is mill based. Unless, it also has a mil scale in it.
But it’s not.... the matches give you the yardage for the targets(mostly) or if you range it, it reads in yards/meters and when you’re calling wind you’re saying in your head “that’s X mph, which is X mils or Moa.” This is allowing you to not have to do that (quick) conversion therefore making it faster.
Have you worked with a spotter? I amsume you have. I find it very strange that such a simple question keeps getting spun back into a single system interface. Yes, units of triangles in the scope might also be superior to mils in a single person universe.
So your telling me that if I need to communicate to someone on a mil based system (most in PR are) how far something is; I’ll need to tell them something like- Up 980 / Right 27mph and that will be faster?? Or even usable in our dialogue.
What is 1mil at 300y? What is it at 1000 yards? Still 1.. in contrast, 27mph FV wind is about 1mi at 300 for me, but over 4 at 1000. Wind is not a constant angler unit. I hope you can see that if there is not a mil scale (maybe there is, that’s what I asked) I would be very difficult in some mixed communication settings.
Edited to add: I am not bashing the reticle, just asking a simple question. I might very well have a mil scale and be a great reticle for some shooters
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Diver,
Zipollini has the gist of what I was trying to communicate. Teams develop their own style of communication, what works for them. I am not a PRS shoooter, so I cannot weigh in on that in any way, shape or form. I will share my experience from other arenas, as well as Palma shooting. When the shooter is shooting in Palma team format, his only responsibility is to hold and shoot. The spotter/coach calls the wind and actually adjusts the windage on the sight, as well as the elevation. The shooter may not even know what settings they are shooting. In a highly competitive environment, coaches/spotters have been known to vocalize inaccurate data for any enquiring minds or discerning ears.
Relating to the tactical environment, it is quite advantageous to use the same system, and never deviate if not forced. Mils or Minutes, doesnt matter. just math. We used to communicate in a way that was ass backwards to other units because the spotter was the senior member and thats what he wanted. The language used in PRS vs Military vs LE may differ widely. Maybe more brief, maybe more wordy. That is a style and a learned behavior. However, if I was using the DTR with a partner and said " Up 25 right 2" meaning up 25 yrds and right 2 mph, how would that differ from a mil or minute correction? So long as both members use the same system, it works just fine. If you switch back and forth and can convert on the fly in your head, God bless and carry on. I think it is not a matter of concern so long as you are comfortable with whatever you use and whoever you shoot with.
As to the DTR, for simple, easy to use, and relatable to people not well acquainted, it is a work of mastery. I have had the opportunity to show this system to several friends that are long time military infantry guys and not avid shooters. They always get it right away. They have been around the mil stuff for years and always had difficulty explaining it to the legs, but felt the DTR was completely intuitive.
All of this is not a penis measuring affair, it is a discussion of preference and systems that might or might not be the right thing for an individual. Thats all.
Zipollini has the gist of what I was trying to communicate. Teams develop their own style of communication, what works for them. I am not a PRS shoooter, so I cannot weigh in on that in any way, shape or form. I will share my experience from other arenas, as well as Palma shooting. When the shooter is shooting in Palma team format, his only responsibility is to hold and shoot. The spotter/coach calls the wind and actually adjusts the windage on the sight, as well as the elevation. The shooter may not even know what settings they are shooting. In a highly competitive environment, coaches/spotters have been known to vocalize inaccurate data for any enquiring minds or discerning ears.
Relating to the tactical environment, it is quite advantageous to use the same system, and never deviate if not forced. Mils or Minutes, doesnt matter. just math. We used to communicate in a way that was ass backwards to other units because the spotter was the senior member and thats what he wanted. The language used in PRS vs Military vs LE may differ widely. Maybe more brief, maybe more wordy. That is a style and a learned behavior. However, if I was using the DTR with a partner and said " Up 25 right 2" meaning up 25 yrds and right 2 mph, how would that differ from a mil or minute correction? So long as both members use the same system, it works just fine. If you switch back and forth and can convert on the fly in your head, God bless and carry on. I think it is not a matter of concern so long as you are comfortable with whatever you use and whoever you shoot with.
As to the DTR, for simple, easy to use, and relatable to people not well acquainted, it is a work of mastery. I have had the opportunity to show this system to several friends that are long time military infantry guys and not avid shooters. They always get it right away. They have been around the mil stuff for years and always had difficulty explaining it to the legs, but felt the DTR was completely intuitive.
All of this is not a penis measuring affair, it is a discussion of preference and systems that might or might not be the right thing for an individual. Thats all.
Man, all this and the penis thing too...?
Because I asked if it also had a mil scale in the reticle like the some of the other reticle offerings like tremor2 that include wind scales.
In PR, the main language is mil based. So it seemed like a natural question to ask. Ya, if everyone around you is using triangles use triangles.. You’re actually saying the same thing I am. I’ve never seen anyone in the wild using this system or triangles, so it would seem a language that is not mainstream and with that might have some disadvantages..
If you don’t find yourself thinking that’s valuable great for you. If you don’t understand mil wind no worries use something that helps you.
If you don’t care for matching turrets and reticles I do not care.
It might be the best system for you on the planet.. that’s great too. Some people love BCD reticles, but again that is not what I was asking.
No worries I look at it myself. It really seemed like a simple question and was not bashing on it.
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I understand where you’re coming from. Shooting as a pair requires using the same reticle. The correction wouldn’t be U5,R2. It would have to be just the simple yardage and wind value, example would be the shooter shoots and misses, spotter simply says 725, 10.
As far as wind goes, provided you’re shooting in the same wind vector and it doesn’t change rapidly, once the shooter has the corrected wind hold, the dots in the reticle that represent 5mph increments would essentially take away the need for wind corrections beyond that shot and you’ll only be needing to worry about elevation. So when the shooter got that 725,10 correction, if there is a new target at 1250, the shooter would hold the appropriate wind dot at the mark in the scope that represents 1250.
I’m hopefully not contributing to the measuring contest, but I am trying to answer your question. I would think regardless of what system a team is using that they should have the same scaled reticle between both of their optics. Beyond that, I feel as though the DTR would make the speed between shots faster. That’s my personal opinion.
As far as wind goes, provided you’re shooting in the same wind vector and it doesn’t change rapidly, once the shooter has the corrected wind hold, the dots in the reticle that represent 5mph increments would essentially take away the need for wind corrections beyond that shot and you’ll only be needing to worry about elevation. So when the shooter got that 725,10 correction, if there is a new target at 1250, the shooter would hold the appropriate wind dot at the mark in the scope that represents 1250.
I’m hopefully not contributing to the measuring contest, but I am trying to answer your question. I would think regardless of what system a team is using that they should have the same scaled reticle between both of their optics. Beyond that, I feel as though the DTR would make the speed between shots faster. That’s my personal opinion.
Hey Diver.
Maybe I misunderstood what the Original post or question was. I thought you were making an evaluation and determination.
I was simply trying to add a different perspective and got lost somewhere.
No offense intended. So often these things miss context.
Best
Maybe I misunderstood what the Original post or question was. I thought you were making an evaluation and determination.
I was simply trying to add a different perspective and got lost somewhere.
No offense intended. So often these things miss context.
Best
DTR is a different take on this than the mrad system, but it is a very viable way to go. I have gone through the manual quite thoroughle (a couple of different versions of it, really) and I think it is a very clever way to go about things. It will make a really compelling option once it is in the Mk5.
ILya
ILya
