Night Vision Dbal A3 vs D2

[Nightskyone]

Hi, for those who handled both:
1. What is the weight difference, significant feel?
2. Is D2 much more bulkier?
3. Is D2 bulkiness worth for the illuminator?
4. and the final question, is the price $1k for either brand new a great deal?
Thank you

 

[WALLYBOB]

I don't have either but am planning on buying a Dbal D2 soon. 1k new is a great price from what I've found surfing the web. Who is offering that, if you don't mind.

 

[Nightskyone]

I don't have either but am planning on buying a Dbal D2 soon. 1k new is a great price from what I've found surfing the web. Who is offering that, if you don't mind.

I found them at LGS they only have one D2 black and one A3 tan.

 

[TheHorta]

Hi, for those who handled both:
1. What is the weight difference, significant feel?
2. Is D2 much more bulkier?
3. Is D2 bulkiness worth for the illuminator?
4. and the final question, is the price $1k for either brand new a great deal?
Thank you

1) A couple of ounces. Feels like more.
2) Yes, the D2 looks and feels a lot bulkier.
3) If you want real illumination, the D2 crushes the A3.
4) $1K for either new is a solid deal.

 

[Nightskyone]

1) A couple of ounces. Feels like more.
2) Yes, the D2 looks and feels a lot bulkier.
3) If you want real illumination, the D2 crushes the A3.
4) $1K for either new is a solid deal.

Fair enough.
Looking for illumination an usable pointer up to 300yards

 

[aslrookie]

There’s an A3 in the exchange for $900 right now.

 

[Wading]

The A3 has an anemic illuminator that’s pretty bad, even at 50 yards it was basically useless on a night with any moonlight. The D2 has an illuminator similar to the MAWL. That just comes at the expense of bulk and weight.

ETA - The ad in the EE is WAY over priced on everything. I picked up a newer A3 here that was like new for $850. His have a good amount of wear and he’s asking more than I paid and one doesn’t even include the mount .

 

[TheHorta]

The A3 has an anemic illuminator that’s pretty bad, even at 50 yards it was basically useless on a night with any moonlight. The D2 has an illuminator similar to the MAWL. That just comes at the expense of bulk and weight.

ETA - The ad in the EE is WAY over priced on everything. I picked up a newer A3 here that was like new for $850. His have a good amount of wear and he’s asking more than I paid and one doesn’t even include the mount .

Wait... did you try turning the A3 to “High Output” mode?

That increases illuminator output by at least 4.639%

 

[aslrookie]

Wait... did you try turning the A3 to “High Output” mode?

That increases illuminator out by at least 4.639%

lol

 

[Nightskyone]

The A3 has an anemic illuminator that’s pretty bad, even at 50 yards it was basically useless on a night with any moonlight. The D2 has an illuminator similar to the MAWL. That just comes at the expense of bulk and weight.

ETA - The ad in the EE is WAY over priced on everything. I picked up a newer A3 here that was like new for $850. His have a good amount of wear and he’s asking more than I paid and one doesn’t even include the mount .

Is D2 illuminator visible to naked eye (showing red) how much and would this affect concealment?

 

[Nightskyone]

Wait... did you try turning the A3 to “High Output” mode?

That increases illuminator out by at least 4.639%

I would agree that A3 illuminator is useless.
What about OTAL + new IR Modelite vs D2?

 

[Nightskyone]

The A3 has an anemic illuminator that’s pretty bad, even at 50 yards it was basically useless on a night with any moonlight. The D2 has an illuminator similar to the MAWL. That just comes at the expense of bulk and weight.

ETA - The ad in the EE is WAY over priced on everything. I picked up a newer A3 here that was like new for $850. His have a good amount of wear and he’s asking more than I paid and one doesn’t even include the mount .

Weight difference would be 3oz at the expense of D2

 

[aslrookie]

 

[Nightskyone]

Modlite 850 is really good!
D2 is serious illuminator on par with Mawl if not better. Dont think mawl price is justified at $3k, but its ergonomics are the best.

 

[aslrookie]

Modlite 850 is really good!
D2 is serious illuminator on par with Mawl if not better. Dont think mawl price is justified at $3k, but its ergonomics are the best.

Yup, I really like my 850.

 

[tlsmith22]

D2 is a solid piece of equipment. It’s a little bulky but the illuminator is worth it.

 

[Nightskyone]

Is there any better option better than D2 for $1,100?

 

[Twistid]

This thread is relevant to my interests. I can similarly get a civilian DBAL D2 for $975 or the A3 for $965 direct from Steiner.

Conversely I can leave out the illumination and just get a full power PERST4 from eBay or Ivan for ~$500.

My question is how necessary is an illuminator for a gen3 NV and I'd sacrificing laser output for illumination while adding an extra $500 worth it?

 

[hypno02]

I use a D3 in conjunction with my Sionyx Aurora and the laser/illuminator ill allow me to shoot anything I want out to 300yds pretty easily.

For observation purposes utilizing the illuminator 300yds is just the beginning.

 

[jwramp]

+1 from the D2 gang checking in. I dig em for longer range use. The PERST was pretty impressive too during that little test - I really liked how it has a digital rheostat and you can dial it in super precisely for how bright you need it.

 

[Hogrider2000]

Exactly what Horta said.

And that price is unheard of. GREAT deal

 

[WALLYBOB]

Ok guys..... I am new to NV and haven't discovered the bargain outlets yet, but the lowest price I've found on a D2 is $1399. I'm obviously not looking at the right sites or are these LGS prices?

 

[Twistid]

So you guys would recommend the neutered D2 for $975ish over a full power Perst4 for $500ish?

 

[Choid]

So you guys would recommend the neutered D2 for $975ish over a full power Perst4 for $500ish?

Doesn’t the 4 have no illum? No reason for a full power laser and no illumination.

 

[Nightskyone]

So you guys would recommend the neutered D2 for $975ish over a full power Perst4 for $500ish?

Stay away from perst, have QC issues, not holding zero is one of them... would not have confidence with any perst other then a cool toy
$975 for D2 is a great deal, can you share the link I would get one at that price. Thanks

 

[Twistid]

It's the military discount, sorry

 

[Nightskyone]

It's the military discount, sorry

Thats great they give that kind of discount to military, are you buying it from stainer directly?

 

[WALLYBOB]

Law enforcement discount?

 

[aslrookie]

Just use govx.com steiner is on there

 

[Steve_In_29]

Stay away from perst, have QC issues, not holding zero is one of them... would not have confidence with any perst other then a cool toy
$975 for D2 is a great deal, can you share the link I would get one at that price. Thanks

Can you give any links to the Perst issues?

Not disputing what you wrote but am considering one and all I have found has been positive. So would like other opinions before I lay out my cash.

 

[Nightskyone]

Does it look like that D2 is the best value for $1k?

 

[Nightskyone]

Can you give any links to the Perst issues?

Not disputing what you wrote but am considering one and all I have found has been positive. So would like other opinions before I lay out my cash.

That was my opinion acquired by talking to few guys here at private range club (pros that had few of them tested while back when the price was not so high as now). Other than that I dont have any Other evidence to provide to you. If you feel comfortable with it go get it but I would not trust it. At the end is comes down to whatever makes you happy

 

[Nightskyone]

Some good info about the visibility to the naked eye of various illuminators

Friday Night Lights: J. W. Ramp's Downrange IR Signature Test

J.W. Ramp performed a much-needed test. He documented and photographed the downrange IR signature of some of the most common IR illuminators on the market. Such a comparison has never really been done before at this level.

www.thefirearmblog.com

 

[Choid]

That was my opinion acquired by talking to few guys here at private range club (pros that had few of them tested while back when the price was not so high as now). Other than that I dont have any Other evidence to provide to you. If you feel comfortable with it go get it but I would not trust it. At the end is comes down to whatever makes you happy

I've had ok success with the laser on my perst, even on a higher recoiling caliber. The illuminator aiming screws are junk and fully stripped out almost immediately. Luckily, I got them on target as they stripped out. I use almost solely for illum, and it works well there.

 

[Nightskyone]

I've had ok success with the laser on my perst, even on a higher recoiling caliber. The illuminator aiming screws are junk and fully stripped out almost immediately. Luckily, I got them on target as they stripped out. I use almost solely for illum, and it works well there.

I bet you can buy Perst in russia for few hundred bucks.

 

[Twistid]

So what's the benefit (if any) of the A3 over the D2 except weight? It sounds like the D2 has a more powerful illuminator and is better overall.

 

[aslrookie]

So what's the benefit (if any) of the A3 over the D2 except weight? It sounds like the D2 has a more powerful illuminator and is better overall.

I think the A3 can do a vis laser override with white light and tapeswitch combo. I don’t believe the D2 can do that.

 

[WhereNow&How]

So what's the benefit (if any) of the A3 over the D2 except weight? It sounds like the D2 has a more powerful illuminator and is better overall.

So only 1.

If you unfortunately find yourself on a 2 way range for some reason, and Joe Shit The Bad Man lights you up with White light, you need to be able to immediately respond with (more powerful Candela, think 69,000 Candela Modlite OKW) and Vis Point. All that needs to happen instantly with one push of a button to activate powerful white light and preferably Green Vis Point. It can mean the difference in coming home or not.

If you are wearing NOD's and Joe Shit The Bad Man lights you up, its gonna wash out your NODS so you need to be able to look under your NODS and blind him while eliminating the threat via Green Vis Point and 3,000 fps. Given that most Joe Shit The Bad Men are not using NV, it is more likely that you would get lit up with White Light.

However, Civi Dbal A3's Illuminators have been denutted. Only way to really get that back up to where it should be is to marry a Luna ELIR-3 to it and slave it to the Dbal A3 via a Taps Sync which is currently the only switch available (with Laser/Surefire leads) to activate 2 devices with a single press of a button.

 

[TheHorta]

I’m beginning to think WN&H was abused as a little boy by someone named “Joe Shit.”

 

[WhereNow&How]

I’m beginning to think WN&H was abused as a little boy by someone named “Joe Shit.”

No it wasn't Joe, it was "Jane Shit" his daughter.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I really picked that term up from a guy I did a lot of business with. He used the term "Joe Shit The Ragman" a lot to describe "Ratbags" and since those days I have modified it to suit a whole host of descriptive characters depending on setting.

The Aussies call em "Ratbags"

Urban Dictionary: Ratbag

Ratbag is also Aussie slang for Trouble maker or someone causing havok - When the word Ratbag is used its used in a non offence way.

www.urbandictionary.com

 

[Twistid]

I think the A3 can do a vis laser override with white light and tapeswitch combo. I don’t believe the D2 can do that.

Thanks for the information.

Ok so I think I'm set on how I'll setup my night rifle (Geissele super duty). I'll buy a civilian DBAL A3 for about $965, then use a spare HL-X I have from a different rifle. I know the DBAL ships with a dual lead switch but I think I'll need an endcap for the HL-X for it to adapt.

So I'm thinking I'll use the DBAL A3 ir illum/ir laser using the button on the unit itself (c-clamp grip). And have the HL-X / Green laser as an "oh-shit" tapeswitch, do you have to manually turn the dial on the DBAL to green for the oh-shit button to work or it will work no matter the dial position?

Finally I'm seeing a few "two button tapeswitchs". Could I use one of these to have one button activate the dbal's dial position and the other button be the green laser override & Whitelight combo?

Apologies for the extended question, just want to make sure I fully understand before spending thousands of dollars

 

[WhereNow&How]

Thanks for the information.

Ok so I think I'm set on how I'll setup my night rifle (Geissele super duty). I'll buy a civilian DBAL A3 for about $965, then use a spare HL-X I have from a different rifle. I know the DBAL ships with a dual lead switch but I think I'll need an endcap for the HL-X for it to adapt.

So I'm thinking I'll use the DBAL A3 ir illum/ir laser using the button on the unit itself (c-clamp grip). And have the HL-X / Green laser as an "oh-shit" tapeswitch, do you have to manually turn the dial on the DBAL to green for the oh-shit button to work or it will work no matter the dial position?

Finally I'm seeing a few "two button tapeswitchs". Could I use one of these to have one button activate the dbal's dial position and the other button be the green laser override & Whitelight combo?

Apologies for the extended question, just want to make sure I fully understand before spending thousands of dollars

The dual lead Y Cable that comes with the Steiner Dbal A3 had laser plugs on both ends so unless you are running a Steiner Weapon Light with their Tailcap you are SOL. You will have to get a dual pressure switch that has a Crane/Laser and Surefire leads. Currently the Unity Taps Sync is your only viable option. They are good switch's.

So here is what you are going to need to get to where you want to go. This is to set up your Overide Port and White Light


TAILCAP ADAPTER - STREAMLIGHT PROTAC RAILMOUNT HL-X

Tailcap Adapter - Streamlight Protac Railmount HL-X

Tailcap adapter that allows Surefire remote tailcaps and switches to fit the Streamlight Protac Rail Mount HL-X. Works with Surefire UE, DS, ST07, SR07, and SR-D-IT switches.

arisakadefense.com

Surefire DS00 Tailcap

Surefire DS

arisakadefense.com

or
Surefire UE Tailcap

Surefire UE

arisakadefense.com

TAPS SYNC – Surefire/Laser 9″

TAPS™ | SYNC | SureFire® / Crane Laser - UNITY Tactical

TAPS (Tactical Augmented Pressure Switch) from TNVC and Unity Tactical is a complete one point command and control system for weapon-mounted electronics. It provides low profile, dual-device control for lights and lasers. TAPS allows placement of weapon accessories in optimal location while...

www.unitytactical.com

To run your IR side of the Dbal A3 you can use any single lead Crane/Laser pressure pad. I personally like the Hot Button

HOT BUTTON™ | M1913 Rail - UNITY Tactical

HOT BUTTON™ is a state-of-the-art control device for weapon-mounted electronic accessories. It provides a 45 degree angle button interface for a more natural press angle at any position around a weapon hand guard. The up-angled button also provides an easier tactile reference point for the...

www.unitytactical.com

So with everything set up on your Dbal A 3, say you have it set to IR high point/illuminate, when you hit the Taps Sync that is plugged into your overide port it immediately activates Vis Green and White light. No need to fiddle with any of the settings on the Dbal A3.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I bet you can buy Perst in russia for few hundred bucks.

Yeah but, you gotta include the plane ticket cost to get over there and snag the deal, then return cost to sneak it through customs.

 

[bullseye13]

How does the dbal i2 compare to the A3 in regards to illumination distance?

 

[Huskydriver]

How does the dbal i2 compare to the A3 in regards to illumination distance?

See post 14

 

[Nightskyone]

How does the dbal i2 compare to the A3 in regards to illumination distance?

I2 has no vis laser. Both suck at illumination past 50yards or in “brighter” environment pushing through photonic barriers

 

[bullseye13]

I2 has no vis laser. Both suck at illumination past 50yards or in “brighter” environment pushing through photonic barriers

I’m looking to have 300yd illumination. A decent ir laser, and without having the illumination visible to the human eye like the d2. Trying to get that without mawl price tag.

 

[Nightskyone]

I’m looking to have 300yd illumination. A decent ir laser, and without having the illumination visible to the human eye like the d2. Trying to get that without mawl price tag.

D2 would be your only option, if you look better how significant is that “visibility”? Is it really relevant and to what extent? You can always buy filter that filters out any visible spectrum of light above 780n
You cant beat that illuminator and lasers package for the money

 

[Atlas11B]

It's the military discount, sorry

Who did you contact to get the military discount? I’ve checked govx and ExpertVoice. Found one website that isn’t actually Steiner, “Steiner-scopes.com” that offers it but it seems a little sketchy