I'm going to tempt you into one of our upcoming 16" fluted match or 21" non-flute match when they release in a short while. We're chasing the accuracy dragon as well, haha.
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Dedicated 22lr bbl recommendations for CMMG conversion kit?
- Thread starter SkepticalTiger
- Start date
I'm going to tempt you into one of our upcoming 16" fluted match or 21" non-flute match when they release in a short while. We're chasing the accuracy dragon as well, haha.
Depends which group better and if you could do 21" fluted as well haha. As long as you understand what I'm going to do to it then we're golden
BoreBuddy: You are going to go to a nice home match barrel
Match barrel after 1 week with SkepticalTiger:
I wonder what the accuracy difference is between the two?
what distance will the 500$ barrel will significantly outperform the 200$ barrel
Could be a number of things tbh. Rockfish Dave is about 2k miles north of me so weather conditions will vary unless it's an indoor range. Ammo lot, optic, etc. But generally speaking it'd be interesting to see how his groups with CCI SV as a baseline.
From the classified section: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/wts-keystone-accuracy-ar-15-22lr-build.7163686/
The targets he posted ran from .34 to .77 inches at 50.
The targets he posted ran from .34 to .77 inches at 50.
I am sold on the built in chamber, it does away with the chamber adapter/collet. I have a cmmg upper and the play has introduced a failure point.
I am not really looking for a target upper. I like to do drills on a shot timer, and just want dead nuts reliable.
Savings in ammo cost will amortize the cost differential fair quickly (5.56 vs 22lr).
Makes sense. With my Borebuddy kit and a KP15 lower the play between the collar and adapter hasn't been an issue in the 3k+ rounds without cleaning. On my slightly out of spec lower I do see a bit of movement.
I guess what I ended up doing was putting more focus on reliability into tuning the bolt than say the bbl itself. If you're just using a regular CMMG bolt, technically speaking you're spending the same as I did with a Beyer Barrel, the money is just put into a different part of the system.
Do you plan on using Tennex like that poster did or just CCI SV? Any indoor 50 yard ranges you have available to check group with either? Would love to compare results once your bbl comes in. Outside of maybe checking just to see how tight my stuff will group I don't plan onto since the point of this AR22 was to use sub 10 cpr to get 75% of practice I'd get from my centerfire rifles. Maybe 15 cpr tops since I shoot on the regular.
What kind of groups does bore buddy get with CCI Velocitor Winchester Hyper Speed?
I think I did a while back, but BoreBuddy has a 1:12 twist and Beyer Barrels has 1-16 twist, but offers 1-9 for subsonic stuff.
The Winchester is about as lackluster through the BoreBuddy as through any other rifle. Hyper velocity is not known for great groups.
This is not true -- many different twists are suitable for 22lr the same as any other caliber can be had in a variety of twists. It is the conventional (and often parroted online) wisdom that using anything other than 1:16 is going to create a black hole that destroys planet earth, but it's just not the case.
Not really what I said.
I haven’t had any success in an AR 22 upper with fast twist, but will look at the 1-12”
I haven’t had any success in an AR 22 upper with fast twist, but will look at the 1-12”
What ammo were you using and was it a dedicated 22lr bbl? I know that faster twist rates are meant for heavier custom projectiles or subsonic.
I have a dedicated 1-16” upper but tried a 1-7 with 40 grain bullets with no success (25 yard group of 3” or so”)
I think anything in the 1-7 and 1-9 range require weights require a minimum of 45gr with 60gr being more desirable. Even Cutting Edge Bullets says their 50gr projectile is meant for 1-7 twists https://cuttingedgebullets.com/curx-50gr-22lr-bundle-200ct
Yep, that's pretty normal accuracy for a conversion kit. BoreBuddy 1:12 dedicated barrels are usually around 2-3moa with cheap ammo and right around 1-1.5moa with CCV SV or similar.
Quick update. Shot through about 650 rounds of Automatch from what I ordered from Brownells. Still have another 650 rounds to go through to test out a sample from 2 separate cases. Also shot 500 rounds of Aquila Super Extra HV.
Around.... 300 - 400 shots in I was encountering rounds that were a bit lethargic and wouldn't cycle the bolt completely every 1 / 100 rounds. Sometimes it'd be 3 per magazine. Later determined this seemed to be a combination of somewhat lower powder charges from factory, magazine, my buddy who I was firing with limp wristing the AR22 (he didn't have it tight in his shoulder like I was), and that by this point we were close to the 4k round mark. A quick lube with SLIP2000 did help.
Aguila had no issues in all 500 rounds which was quite nice, but the extra wax caused my speed loader to completely fail but this is also due to... somewhere in the neighborhood of 6k rounds cycled through it without a cleaning. Like @renaissanceman mentioned it works really well and seems really consistent. Just the smell is a bit hard to deal with.
I'm tempted to change the bolt weight so Automatch feeds again but could just be a finicky batch. Plus being 3x the max daily round count I initially expected it to fire between cleanings doesn't help but I'm pretty sure it's just anemic rounds every now and then both in ejection and sound. We'll see how the next 650 rounds fair next weekend.
Since I'll be sending back my SH-4, I only tuned the adjustable bolt weight on the 2nd AR22 to where it'd work with CCI SV. I only had 50 rounds on me, and managed to get lockup with 2 large tungsten weights, 1 small tungsten weight, and 1 small steel weight, but I'm tempted to try all tungsten. I accidently grabbed CCI Suppressor 45gr instead of velocitor, and those ran fine with the weight arrangement I mentioned prior.
What I am trying to go for is CCI SV being a baseline for the adjustable bolt weight and then do some final tuning once I find an ammo it likes best on top of CCI Velocitor or some other high velocity ammo to help with longer shots.
If anyone has suggestions besides warm soapy water to clean out the speed loader and magazines I'm all ears. I'm down to about... 5 magazines that work consistently from my original 10. of which 3 are feedlip related and the other 2 are magazine spring related where midway through the magazine the feed speed seems to lag a bit causing failure to feed. I'll post some pics tomorrow and slow mo video if I can get that on imgur too. BoreBuddy isn't playing around with their reliability kit.
Around.... 300 - 400 shots in I was encountering rounds that were a bit lethargic and wouldn't cycle the bolt completely every 1 / 100 rounds. Sometimes it'd be 3 per magazine. Later determined this seemed to be a combination of somewhat lower powder charges from factory, magazine, my buddy who I was firing with limp wristing the AR22 (he didn't have it tight in his shoulder like I was), and that by this point we were close to the 4k round mark. A quick lube with SLIP2000 did help.
Aguila had no issues in all 500 rounds which was quite nice, but the extra wax caused my speed loader to completely fail but this is also due to... somewhere in the neighborhood of 6k rounds cycled through it without a cleaning. Like @renaissanceman mentioned it works really well and seems really consistent. Just the smell is a bit hard to deal with.
I'm tempted to change the bolt weight so Automatch feeds again but could just be a finicky batch. Plus being 3x the max daily round count I initially expected it to fire between cleanings doesn't help but I'm pretty sure it's just anemic rounds every now and then both in ejection and sound. We'll see how the next 650 rounds fair next weekend.
Since I'll be sending back my SH-4, I only tuned the adjustable bolt weight on the 2nd AR22 to where it'd work with CCI SV. I only had 50 rounds on me, and managed to get lockup with 2 large tungsten weights, 1 small tungsten weight, and 1 small steel weight, but I'm tempted to try all tungsten. I accidently grabbed CCI Suppressor 45gr instead of velocitor, and those ran fine with the weight arrangement I mentioned prior.
What I am trying to go for is CCI SV being a baseline for the adjustable bolt weight and then do some final tuning once I find an ammo it likes best on top of CCI Velocitor or some other high velocity ammo to help with longer shots.
If anyone has suggestions besides warm soapy water to clean out the speed loader and magazines I'm all ears. I'm down to about... 5 magazines that work consistently from my original 10. of which 3 are feedlip related and the other 2 are magazine spring related where midway through the magazine the feed speed seems to lag a bit causing failure to feed. I'll post some pics tomorrow and slow mo video if I can get that on imgur too. BoreBuddy isn't playing around with their reliability kit.
I would think simple green would be a great cleaner for the speed loader
I've been wanting to try a couple of these magazines. They've got the more durable steel feed lips AND they say they work with the Catch22 device. I believe you're using the Redi-mag adapter so that doesn't necessarily help you but you might try the Catch22 to see if suits your needs better along with this magazine.
I've never tried one of those mags. I have heard they are not great from multiple people. I'm local to black dog and pick up mags periodically. I'll have to put one into our next order and try it out.
I've got one of the 25 round nylon feed lips. They've switched all the lips on the 25 sonicweld to metal now. I have about 4000 rounds through it no issues. I had read a couple places the 32 were not reliable but the 25 are much better.
https://www.blackdogmachinellc.net/sonic-x.aspx
Another update. We've hit 5k rounds between the last cleaning and only 3 times I've taken out the bolt to lube it up which are around the 1.5k to 1.75k marks respectively.
Here are some assembled photos from the range today. Shot 1 box of Automatch 325 and about 175 to 200 rounds of another box. Test today was to see if I maybe got a bad batch or what. I used two known working magazines and loaded them by hand. Despite having sore fingers there were probably... 5 or 6 rounds that were underpowered and caused the bolt to not reset, but it did eject and load a round, just didn't eject the round very enthusiastically. I COULD reduce the bolt weight a bit more, but again, why when we know under... 2k rounds or so these issues aren't really present.
May shoot another box from the same lot to verify or maybe I just got a bad box? I think this is enough data to order another 2 cases of Automatch as the sale is still putting it at 5.5 cpr shipped after tax compared to Aguila se hv at 6.8 cpr shipped after tax.
Edit: I also noticed that rounds being chambered had no visible signs of damage like I saw with my 10/22 which makes me pretty happy when I take this thing out to longer distances!
Here are some assembled photos from the range today. Shot 1 box of Automatch 325 and about 175 to 200 rounds of another box. Test today was to see if I maybe got a bad batch or what. I used two known working magazines and loaded them by hand. Despite having sore fingers there were probably... 5 or 6 rounds that were underpowered and caused the bolt to not reset, but it did eject and load a round, just didn't eject the round very enthusiastically. I COULD reduce the bolt weight a bit more, but again, why when we know under... 2k rounds or so these issues aren't really present.
May shoot another box from the same lot to verify or maybe I just got a bad box? I think this is enough data to order another 2 cases of Automatch as the sale is still putting it at 5.5 cpr shipped after tax compared to Aguila se hv at 6.8 cpr shipped after tax.
Edit: I also noticed that rounds being chambered had no visible signs of damage like I saw with my 10/22 which makes me pretty happy when I take this thing out to longer distances!
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I'll keep these in mind and take a look once I'm down to... maybe 3 magazines left. The guy who sells Catch22 accessories in his video liked M&P15-22 magazines the most. I'm not opposed to using a different magazine so long as I can maintain my standard AR controls and features like the BHO. I think the Catch22 would be the goto in this case and I'm not opposed to changing it out. Magazine cost is also quite nice too.
Quick update:
Speaking with the third party I bought my 10 FDE mags from to see if S&W will at least let me send them in to have a look on if they can be replaced. Will at BoreBuddy was kind enough to talk with me and we deduced issues surfacing when the magazines were exposed to sunlight during a hot day causing warping. While mine aren't as bad as his, I definitely noticed issues occurring after that point.
RTB had a good deal on black M&P15-22 magazines so I purchased 10 of those and they should be coming in today. These will be indoor range mags only. Some people on the Smith and Wesson forums were saying my failures might be because I wasn't using it in an actual M&P, but even on my highly used FDE magazines I see no signs of the magazine feed lips rubbing against the bolt. I'll keep an eye out on my black magazines.
I changed the SH-4 to an EP-5. EP-5 is definitely nicer and the MIL system makes zeroing super easy. No more trying to figure fractions of an inch, I just note where the impact was on the tree and dial in.
The next two weekends I'll be out of town so I intend to get a few ammo types grouped per week.
Speaking with the third party I bought my 10 FDE mags from to see if S&W will at least let me send them in to have a look on if they can be replaced. Will at BoreBuddy was kind enough to talk with me and we deduced issues surfacing when the magazines were exposed to sunlight during a hot day causing warping. While mine aren't as bad as his, I definitely noticed issues occurring after that point.
RTB had a good deal on black M&P15-22 magazines so I purchased 10 of those and they should be coming in today. These will be indoor range mags only. Some people on the Smith and Wesson forums were saying my failures might be because I wasn't using it in an actual M&P, but even on my highly used FDE magazines I see no signs of the magazine feed lips rubbing against the bolt. I'll keep an eye out on my black magazines.
I changed the SH-4 to an EP-5. EP-5 is definitely nicer and the MIL system makes zeroing super easy. No more trying to figure fractions of an inch, I just note where the impact was on the tree and dial in.
The next two weekends I'll be out of town so I intend to get a few ammo types grouped per week.
Boring Magazine Update:
They came in yesterday and it took me a couple days to get these photographed. These were taken to give a decent idea of how my sample size of magazines came, a general overview on how they look and I plan on taking photos of how these magazines wear in every 100 rounds because I'm convinced from the FDE ones I got, the Better Mag Adapter + RTB 22lr bolt conversion + the BoreBoddy upgrades are NOT causing premature wear on the magazines.
My calipers broke so I'll refrain from using these magazines until I get the feed lips sized. Else I'm not really collecting much data.
Attention to feed lips and where the first few rounds chamber. I'm pretty sure this will wear over time as I use these magazines more. While the molding imperfections and some less than desirable QC will mostly stay untouched.
https://imgur(.)com/a/fI1hWDT
Attention to each magazine and signs for warping, spring pressure, and overall QC. All magazines felt fine, though a few seemed to have a few burs where the follower moves. Part of why I'm doing this too is also being safe than sorry in case these magazines prematurely fail or have issues. At least I have documentation of wear patterns over time.
They came in yesterday and it took me a couple days to get these photographed. These were taken to give a decent idea of how my sample size of magazines came, a general overview on how they look and I plan on taking photos of how these magazines wear in every 100 rounds because I'm convinced from the FDE ones I got, the Better Mag Adapter + RTB 22lr bolt conversion + the BoreBoddy upgrades are NOT causing premature wear on the magazines.
My calipers broke so I'll refrain from using these magazines until I get the feed lips sized. Else I'm not really collecting much data.
Attention to feed lips and where the first few rounds chamber. I'm pretty sure this will wear over time as I use these magazines more. While the molding imperfections and some less than desirable QC will mostly stay untouched.
https://imgur(.)com/a/fI1hWDT
Attention to each magazine and signs for warping, spring pressure, and overall QC. All magazines felt fine, though a few seemed to have a few burs where the follower moves. Part of why I'm doing this too is also being safe than sorry in case these magazines prematurely fail or have issues. At least I have documentation of wear patterns over time.
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Still alive and working on this project I've just been busy. Hopefully will have something to post this weekend.
Tested this past weekend. It’s the barrel off my Tac-Sol AR-22 conversion that I hadn’t been impressed with the accuracy, but didn’t know how much was me, the crappy AR trigger, or floppy AR stock. Set to minimal headspace, the Finnfire’s adjustable stock and 2oz Jewell trigger let me really see what was what…
I’ve seen better tomatoe stakes!
This 16” barrel will be scrapped for other projects. Back to testing a Lilja, Anschutz, and extra factory Sako barrel for pure accuracy for the AR-22.
I’ve seen better tomatoe stakes!
This 16” barrel will be scrapped for other projects. Back to testing a Lilja, Anschutz, and extra factory Sako barrel for pure accuracy for the AR-22.
I had no idea any AR22 barrel would fit in a bolt can't say I have ever thought about it
This required a thin shim, then slid in and tightened the Finnfire action.
Going the other direction will require the lathe, so I’m wanting to make sure I’ll be satisfied first.
A friend turned these aftermarket 10/22 barrels to fit my Remington 504 bolt action. Since the barrel already has a Bentz chamber, I didn’t have to touch that, just lock it in.
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Hey everyone, been a long time since I posted. I finally hit the 10k+ round count and did a tear down, besides some springs feeling a bit easy to squish and a bit of wear on the extractor everything was fine. barrel cleaned up well, crown looked good, etc. I'll be making a separate post soon. Bore Buddy definitely makes the CMMG conversion bolt something that will last an extraordinary amount of time.
If I had the facilities, time and $ I'd want to see how it wears and functions over 100k+ rounds. Considering the price of 556 / 223 at the moment, a dedicated 22lr upper with BoreBuddy components + BetterMag adapter for a functional bolt catch (or Catch22 M&P15-22 adapters + Bolt Catch) really meets most of a person's needs if training with their go-to AR lower is needed. If you are in hot or adverse climates then Black Dog magazines would be better as M&P15-22 mags tend to warp in hotter climates.
Even distance wouldn't be an issue since shooting 22lr out to 200 - 300 yards makes shooting with 556 out to 400 - 500 yards feel easy. I'd argue even guys that run full auto setups just need the adjustable trip and they have that option if need be. Yes, 556 will have more recoil and concussion, but outside of that concussion so long as you have a solid hold on the gun it doesn't feel that much different.
If I had the facilities, time and $ I'd want to see how it wears and functions over 100k+ rounds. Considering the price of 556 / 223 at the moment, a dedicated 22lr upper with BoreBuddy components + BetterMag adapter for a functional bolt catch (or Catch22 M&P15-22 adapters + Bolt Catch) really meets most of a person's needs if training with their go-to AR lower is needed. If you are in hot or adverse climates then Black Dog magazines would be better as M&P15-22 mags tend to warp in hotter climates.
Even distance wouldn't be an issue since shooting 22lr out to 200 - 300 yards makes shooting with 556 out to 400 - 500 yards feel easy. I'd argue even guys that run full auto setups just need the adjustable trip and they have that option if need be. Yes, 556 will have more recoil and concussion, but outside of that concussion so long as you have a solid hold on the gun it doesn't feel that much different.
