DEF shortage

T

tomcatmv

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 13, 2017
2,484
3,910
Central Texas
#1
A Good read!!!

DO YOU KNOW ABOUT DIESEL?

Do you know what DEF fluid is? It's Diesel Exhaust Fluid. Every Diesel
truck that has been made since 2010 is required to use it. It's a
product made of 67% Urea fertilizer and 33% distilled water. Every
diesel truck you see driving down the road today has to have this
product to drive. The engines won't start without it. There are
regulators inside the engine that mix DEF with the Diesel to reduce
Diesel emissions. That's the purpose of DEF.
Right now, Russia is the largest exporter of Urea by a wide margin.
Qatar is second. Egypt and China are Tied for 3rd. Both Russia and
China have decided to no longer export Urea. On top of that, India is
the largest manufacturer of Urea in the world even though they consume
most of what they make. What little they would export they no longer
do. They are now stopping the exportation of any and all Urea minus a
deal they just cut with Sri Lanka.
What does this mean for you and me? Well, first, the United States
imports most of it's Urea fertilizer. We are the third largest
importer in the entire world. We depend on other countries to eat,
drive and ship our products.
Secondly, Flying J is the largest Service provider for Truckers around
the Unites States. I'm sure you've seen their massive gas stations
when traveling around the country.
Flying J gets 70% of their DEF fluid from shipments via Union Pacific
railroad. UP has single user access to the Fertilizer plants that
Urea/DEF fluid comes from. No other rail provider has access to these
distribution points.
This means Flying J can't just go around Union Pacific. Union Pacific
is in charge....for a reason I'm gonna mention in a few paragraphs.
Flying J provides 30% of all DEF consumed in the United States. UP has
told Flying J to reduce their shipments by a whopping 50%. And if they
do not comply then they will be completely embargoed. That would in
effect bankrupt FJ. This means that 15% of all DEF consumed by
truckers in the US is no longer available at the largest travel
service center for the entire trucking industry.
Rome rotted from the inside out. It was easily invaded because it was
occupied with internal problems. It appears we have discovered the
Trigger. DEF fluid.
If this holds up, DEF shortages will be the catalyst that causes
massive food shortages in the coming months. Not only is there a
shortage of fertilizer to grow crops in drought-stricken states (See
Kansas' drop in wheat production for 2022) but now it looks like,
unless the Federal Government intervenes via the Defense Production
Act, which I am no longer confident they will....there is gonna be an
absolute massive shortage of truck shipments in the coming months.
There simply isn't going to be DEF fluid sufficient to keep the
engines running and moving. Home Depot is now limiting the amount of
DEF you can buy in their stores.
I would think long and hard about the decisions you are making right
now. Where you live. What you spend money on. How you prepare. This is
so real that the CEO of Flying J, Shameek Konar was summoned to a
Surface Transportation Board hearing to give them all this info.
Blackrock is the majority shareholder of Union Pacific railroad. How
is that important? Americas biggest fertilizer producer is CF
Industries. Their largest shareholder is Blackrock. Blackrock controls
the fertilizer industry in the U.S.
Union Pacific has exclusive rights to distribution points of
fertilizer. Urea is fertilizer. Flying J needs Urea/DEF. Blackrock is
controlling everything. The Chairman of the BlackRock Investment
Institute is Tom Donilon, President Obama’s former National Security
Advisor.
Tom Donilon’s brother, Mike Donilon is a Senior Advisor to Joe Biden.
Tom Donilon’s wife, Catherine Russell, is the White House Personnel
Director. Tom Donilon’s daughter, Sarah Donilon, who graduated college
in 2019, now works on the White House National Security Council.
It appears Blackrock is spearheading the dismantling of the US system
on behalf of the Globalists. And the first domino they are pushing
over is the energy sector. They are using DEF to get the party
started. This is one sector of the biggest downfalls in political
repercussions this country has ever faced…
IF you didn’t think this could get worse with high gasoline prices and
food prices what you have just read is the playbook that is going on
right under 90% of American citizens noses. Time to stock up on
canned goods and whatever else will last for 1 ½ -2 years. Because
food shortages will create desperate people. The baby food shortage
was the test run.

I don't know if there's any truth to this or not. Just found it interesting.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: c1steve
#3
That's actually a shit fucking copy and paste. They can't even get the percentages correct on the contents. They have no understanding of how it works, mix def with diesel and see how well that works. Not all trucks use def, 2010 and older don't, people that have deleted aftertreatment systems don't need it either which has become more and more common. I'll just stop there with what is wrong with the article...
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: JMGlasgow, shoobe01, Ibex24 and 1 other person
#4
Bradu said:
That's actually a shit fucking copy and paste. They can't even get the percentages correct on the contents. They have no understanding of how it works, mix def with diesel and see how well that works. Not all trucks use def, 2010 and older don't, people that have deleted aftertreatment systems don't need it either which has become more and more common. I'll just stop there with what is wrong with the article...
Click to expand...
Like I said, I didn't know if were true. I don't own a diesel so have no experience with it. The article was sent to me by my brother who works for Shell as a refinery operator.
At any rate, mods please delete if this is false information.
 
#6
Bradu said:
That's actually a shit fucking copy and paste. They can't even get the percentages correct on the contents. They have no understanding of how it works, mix def with diesel and see how well that works. Not all trucks use def, 2010 and older don't, people that have deleted aftertreatment systems don't need it either which has become more and more common. I'll just stop there with what is wrong with the article...
Click to expand...
Yeah the whole Def mixing with diesel is absolutely false and their are a ton of deleted trucks running around out there and they just may be getting more popular here in the near future.

But. There are far more trucks on the road that are not deleted than ones that are. Regardless of the articles short comings in the details this is going to become a real problem real quick.

I know several people who installed and sold deletes and in the last year they were all visited by an agent of the epa. This is in rural se Texas. They were told in no way shape or form that they would install another delete. Problem with deletes is all the tunes are cloud based. You buy a tuner, log in to the cloud with your vin and download your tune.
The epa was sueing ezlink for access to their cloud so they could get vin numbers and thus through vehicle registration info they sent out notices to return vehicles back to stock. I know a few people that got them. Not everybody I know that is deleted recieved a notice.

I was at the john deere dealer a few weeks back getting service parts for my tractor and we got to talking about this issue. They said they used to put in an order for Def and got whatever they wanted. Now they put in an order and wait to see what shows up. They're ordering everything from the gallon jugs to the 275 gallon crates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: forrestgump01
#9
XP1K said:
Yeah the whole Def mixing with diesel is absolutely false and their are a ton of deleted trucks running around out there and they just may be getting more popular here in the near future.

But. There are far more trucks on the road that are not deleted than ones that are. Regardless of the articles short comings in the details this is going to become a real problem real quick.

I know several people who installed and sold deletes and in the last year they were all visited by an agent of the epa. This is in rural se Texas. They were told in no way shape or form that they would install another delete. Problem with deletes is all the tunes are cloud based. You buy a tuner, log in to the cloud with your vin and download your tune.
The epa was sueing ezlink for access to their cloud so they could get vin numbers and thus through vehicle registration info they sent out notices to return vehicles back to stock. I know a few people that got them. Not everybody I know that is deleted recieved a notice.

I was at the john deere dealer a few weeks back getting service parts for my tractor and we got to talking about this issue. They said they used to put in an order for Def and got whatever they wanted. Now they put in an order and wait to see what shows up. They're ordering everything from the gallon jugs to the 275 gallon crates.
Click to expand...

This has been said for quite a while now. With the amount of def we use, we still haven't had any issues. The guy that delivers it says they haven't had any issues filling orders either. As i said in another thread, people keep posting this shit, we will see an artificial shortage from people hoarding it.
Screenshot_20220616-100147_Samsung Internet.jpg
 
#11
Def= diesel exhaust fluid.

Its sprayed in the exhaust in between different catalysts as a chemical reaction to help reduce emissions. I cant remember the exact “ chemistry” behind it. But no it doesn’t mix with fuel.
 
#13
GreenGO Juan said:
Def= diesel exhaust fluid.

Its sprayed in the exhaust in between different catalysts as a chemical reaction to help reduce emissions. I cant remember the exact “ chemistry” behind it. But no it doesn’t mix with fuel.
Click to expand...

Sprayed into a decomp tube, then it goes into the scr, which has a chemical reaction to lower NOx levels.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GreenGO Juan and MarshallDodge
#14
Well, how about all these people who say they "don't give a f**k" starting "giving a piss" and donate it to Washington? No, they have all the bullshit they need, so don't send it!
 
#15
I keep a couple spare gallons in the garage for this reason. My Mercedes uses a couple gallons every 10K miles so it isn't a big deal but it can be for the big diesels.

If they run out of DEF, there is going to be a lot of trucks, including semis parked. They cannot allow that to happen.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: XP1K
#16
My take on that article is that it is SO BAD that it must be intended for some reason. Vanguard is the largest shareholder in UP. Blackrock is 5th largest for CF Industries. Obviously don't mix DEF into the fuel - for christ sake it's Diesel EXHAUST Fluid. How in the heck could you get that much wrong when 2 minutes of searches would get you correct information. So there must be some reason for it.
 
#17
MarshallDodge said:
I keep a couple spare gallons in the garage for this reason. My Mercedes uses a couple gallons every 10K miles so it isn't a big deal but it can be for the big diesels.

If they run out of DEF, there is going to be a lot of trucks, including semis parked. They cannot allow that to happen.
Click to expand...
The problem is they would allow it
 
#18
My directional drill burns about 6-8 gallons of DEF a day so we buy DEF by the barrel on pallets. This is not a good situation. As soon as I get low on DEF, the engine goes into limp mode.
 
#27
Listen to what the Flying J CEO said for himself. I watched this when it was made public weeks ago. It wasn’t this particular video but this one does show the testimony.

 
#34
MarshallDodge said:
If they run out of DEF, there is going to be a lot of trucks, including semis parked.
Click to expand...
^^^^^^ Yep , There still is older semi trucks on the road that don't have Def systems , but they won't be much longer . Most company's are gonna start looking at replacing a truck when it hits 500,000. , some company's will overhaul and run them another 500, 000 . But by the time a truck hits a million miles the expense of keeping it up isnt worth it and its gonna be replaced . A normal truck is gonna avg 100,000 miles a year , so a truck is gonna be used up within about 10 yrs if not a lot sooner.
Now there are independents and owner operators that might spend the time and money to keep a older truck rolling , but they are few and far between.
Ohhh , and when a truck goes into the shop , 90% of the time it's for some Def related issue or code .
 
#36
I wonder what voltages you would need to tell the ECU to trick it into thinking there is DEF in the tank . I would assume the tank level and a sensor, like an o2 that “sniffs” the exhaust. I got away from the diesel before the def bs, and don’t know the specifics. But it doesn’t seem like it would be too hard to give the ecu the voltage it needs to keep the truck out of limp mode. Like building a plug to the wiring harness the has a resistor to trick those sensors. Could literally being installed by unplugging something and plugging one of these in

Given a potential def shortage issue. It would keep ya running, an $80,000 yard dart because of ignorance in government( or planned obsolescence) is complete horse shit.
 
#37
GreenGO Juan said:
I wonder what voltages you would need to tell the ECU to trick it into thinking there is DEF in the tank . I would assume the tank level and a sensor, like an o2 that “sniffs” the exhaust. I got away from the diesel before the def bs, and don’t know the specifics. But it doesn’t seem like it would be too hard to give the ecu the voltage it needs to keep the truck out of limp mode. Like building a plug to the wiring harness the has a resistor to trick those sensors. Could literally being installed by unplugging something and plugging one of these in

Given a potential def shortage issue. It would keep ya running, an $80,000 yard dart because of ignorance in government( or planned obsolescence) is complete horse shit.
Click to expand...

Some people have come up with a dummy plug to mimic the def quality, level and temp sensor, but with the shortages of that sensor, oem has already created a software update to bypass that in the ecm. However, you still have two NOx sensors that will throw it into derate if you don't have def. Tuners have that part figured out when they delete the whole aftertreatment system.

Problem is, there are more people that don't have a clue writing files and end up causing more headaches and catastrophic engine failures. Class 8 trucks are pretty hit or miss on tunes which is why I don't recommend it. Obviously, if there is a shortage, you would have to take the risk.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GreenGO Juan, MarshallDodge and shoobe01
#38
I sold my 2002 F250 last year that I purchased in December of 2001. While I never had many issues with it over the years, I did not need three trucks sitting in the driveway. My 2019 F350 does not use an excessive amount of DEF but it appears as the newest trucks (2021+) use a much larger amount. I have read several stories about DEF shortages but everywhere I go out here (SoCal), you can always find it. Getting Rotella T6 is another story and that is basically nonexistent in my area.
 
#39
I (among other things, as a consultant and vendor) design service tools for [a very big diesel engine maker]. I am not an expert on everything in the industry, but hear a lot of interesting stuff and haven't heard a whisper about this. I can't help but note no big mainstream news sources reporting it. Oh, and Newsweek is a sad shell of its past, it reprints all sorts of dumb stuff and has little or no reporting staff of its own now. Doesn't count.

I even popped open some internal knowledge and chat channels just now. Things like "DEF Shortage" return nothing at all. "DEF" alone is interesting technical discussions and ideas (are we ever gonna make an engine that can pass emissions without DEF because yes these exist?) but not a word on a shortage and what we would do to help with it or how we cannot because regulation. Nothing.

So I have to ask, IS this 100% for sure real???
 
#40
If this article is true we are seriously fucked. There is a metric shit ton of Commercial trucks that use Def, to a industry that can barely keep up with production due to shortage of drivers. New school just don’t want to be truck drivers anymore.

Not only comercial trucks most of the heavy equipment industry are all def technology power plants. Try buying anything from Caterpillar that does not have a def system today, not going to happen.

If the article is true with the key players tied to the current administration in these key positions there definitely seems to be a serious game of chess taking place, and is worrisome.

If there is a major shortage of def in the US there will be a shortage of food, and then you can put 2 and 2 together.

This bs technology is all about control, as with everything else tying into the life blood of the US dependent on foreign products is completely insane.

I guess the winners will be the MF that can go out and harvest there own food for there family’s, fucken bring it. Let the thinning of the heard‘s begin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hobo Hilton
#41
tomcatmv said:
A Good read!!!

DO YOU KNOW ABOUT DIESEL?

Do you know what DEF fluid is? It's Diesel Exhaust Fluid. Every Diesel
truck that has been made since 2010 is required to use it. It's a
product made of 67% Urea fertilizer and 33% distilled water. Every
diesel truck you see driving down the road today has to have this
product to drive. The engines won't start without it. There are
regulators inside the engine that mix DEF with the Diesel to reduce
Diesel emissions. That's the purpose of DEF.
Right now, Russia is the largest exporter of Urea by a wide margin.
Qatar is second. Egypt and China are Tied for 3rd. Both Russia and
China have decided to no longer export Urea. On top of that, India is
the largest manufacturer of Urea in the world even though they consume
most of what they make. What little they would export they no longer
do. They are now stopping the exportation of any and all Urea minus a
deal they just cut with Sri Lanka.
What does this mean for you and me? Well, first, the United States
imports most of it's Urea fertilizer. We are the third largest
importer in the entire world. We depend on other countries to eat,
drive and ship our products.
Secondly, Flying J is the largest Service provider for Truckers around
the Unites States. I'm sure you've seen their massive gas stations
when traveling around the country.
Flying J gets 70% of their DEF fluid from shipments via Union Pacific
railroad. UP has single user access to the Fertilizer plants that
Urea/DEF fluid comes from. No other rail provider has access to these
distribution points.
This means Flying J can't just go around Union Pacific. Union Pacific
is in charge....for a reason I'm gonna mention in a few paragraphs.
Flying J provides 30% of all DEF consumed in the United States. UP has
told Flying J to reduce their shipments by a whopping 50%. And if they
do not comply then they will be completely embargoed. That would in
effect bankrupt FJ. This means that 15% of all DEF consumed by
truckers in the US is no longer available at the largest travel
service center for the entire trucking industry.
Rome rotted from the inside out. It was easily invaded because it was
occupied with internal problems. It appears we have discovered the
Trigger. DEF fluid.
If this holds up, DEF shortages will be the catalyst that causes
massive food shortages in the coming months. Not only is there a
shortage of fertilizer to grow crops in drought-stricken states (See
Kansas' drop in wheat production for 2022) but now it looks like,
unless the Federal Government intervenes via the Defense Production
Act, which I am no longer confident they will....there is gonna be an
absolute massive shortage of truck shipments in the coming months.
There simply isn't going to be DEF fluid sufficient to keep the
engines running and moving. Home Depot is now limiting the amount of
DEF you can buy in their stores.
I would think long and hard about the decisions you are making right
now. Where you live. What you spend money on. How you prepare. This is
so real that the CEO of Flying J, Shameek Konar was summoned to a
Surface Transportation Board hearing to give them all this info.
Blackrock is the majority shareholder of Union Pacific railroad. How
is that important? Americas biggest fertilizer producer is CF
Industries. Their largest shareholder is Blackrock. Blackrock controls
the fertilizer industry in the U.S.
Union Pacific has exclusive rights to distribution points of
fertilizer. Urea is fertilizer. Flying J needs Urea/DEF. Blackrock is
controlling everything. The Chairman of the BlackRock Investment
Institute is Tom Donilon, President Obama’s former National Security
Advisor.
Tom Donilon’s brother, Mike Donilon is a Senior Advisor to Joe Biden.
Tom Donilon’s wife, Catherine Russell, is the White House Personnel
Director. Tom Donilon’s daughter, Sarah Donilon, who graduated college
in 2019, now works on the White House National Security Council.
It appears Blackrock is spearheading the dismantling of the US system
on behalf of the Globalists. And the first domino they are pushing
over is the energy sector. They are using DEF to get the party
started. This is one sector of the biggest downfalls in political
repercussions this country has ever faced…
IF you didn’t think this could get worse with high gasoline prices and
food prices what you have just read is the playbook that is going on
right under 90% of American citizens noses. Time to stock up on
canned goods and whatever else will last for 1 ½ -2 years. Because
food shortages will create desperate people. The baby food shortage
was the test run.

I don't know if there's any truth to this or not. Just found it interesting.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
Click to expand...

LOL

 
  • Love
Reactions: Sniperwannabee
#46
The OP article is thought provoking. It's not just DEF, it's "Oil"... As the slow downs, stoppages and the onset of winter become apparent the dependence on oil and refining are moving into the spotlight. Think global, not just America. Yara International opened the world's largest DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) plant in Brunsbüttel, Germany, under the brand-name AdBlue in 2018. There are several manufacturers of DEF in the USA. As long as the energy to feed and produce DEF is available the product will continue to flow. But we are hearing about the possibility of an energy shortage in Europe this winter. Should the largest plant be taken off line, the smaller producers will have to step up to the plate. That brings us back to America, supply, production and of course exporting. Is this sounding like a bad re-run movie ?

The best two lines from the OP. Time to stock up on canned goods and whatever else will last for 1 ½ -2 years. Because food shortages will create desperate people.


Yara International opens the world's largest Diesel Exhaust Fluid plant

Addressing increased worldwide demand for diesel exhaust fluid, Yara's new facility in Brunsbüttel, Germany, has production capacity of 1.1 million tons per year
www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com

Manufacturers of DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) in the US

This is a list of manufacturers of diesel exhaust fluid located in the United States. Included are websites as well as distributor info.
trucktanks.com trucktanks.com
 
#47
Hobo Hilton said:
The OP article is thought provoking. It's not just DEF, it's "Oil"... As the slow downs, stoppages and the onset of winter become apparent the dependence on oil and refining are moving into the spotlight. Think global, not just America. Yara International opened the world's largest DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) plant in Brunsbüttel, Germany, under the brand-name AdBlue in 2018. There are several manufacturers of DEF in the USA. As long as the energy to feed and produce DEF is available the product will continue to flow. But we are hearing about the possibility of an energy shortage in Europe this winter. Should the largest plant be taken off line, the smaller producers will have to step up to the plate. That brings us back to America, supply, production and of course exporting. Is this sounding like a bad re-run movie ?

The best two lines from the OP. Time to stock up on canned goods and whatever else will last for 1 ½ -2 years. Because food shortages will create desperate people.


Yara International opens the world's largest Diesel Exhaust Fluid plant

Addressing increased worldwide demand for diesel exhaust fluid, Yara's new facility in Brunsbüttel, Germany, has production capacity of 1.1 million tons per year
www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com

Manufacturers of DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) in the US

This is a list of manufacturers of diesel exhaust fluid located in the United States. Included are websites as well as distributor info.
trucktanks.com trucktanks.com
Click to expand...

You're another gullible idiot

Are you suggesting that it be illegal to export US made goods? If so, you're beyond retarded.
 
#49
308pirate said:
So by extension he has an in on the global supply chain for DEF, which isn't even made in fucking refineries.

Gotcha
Click to expand...
Real question, its water and urea pretty much from what I understand. Can you make your own or is there more to it?

I've never even looked at a jug of it to be honest just watched the guy spraying it on his grass above.
 
#50
candyx said:
Pull the plug on the trans to bypass the mode that the truck goes into with no DEF.
Click to expand...
And ruin about $10k+ of emissions equipment and possibly your engine for continuing to run with and empty Def tank. People did stupid shit and kept running them without DEF or tried substituting with water. Kubota skid steers and tractor engines above 75hp cost anywhere from $40k to $50k to replace with the required new emission equipment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bradu
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

lash
China Restricts Export of Nitrocellulose and Antimony
Replies
74
Views
3K
Edsel
Edsel
gr8fuldoug
Optics GPO Optics Sale
Replies
0
Views
331
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug
PatMiles
Empty Christmas stockings? Don’t blame COVID, blame California
Replies
4
Views
736
Docsherm
Docsherm
pineoak
Chinese military balloon explained
Replies
28
Views
2K
highbclowgr
highbclowgr
gr8fuldoug
Optics GPO SPECTRA 6x 2-12x44i - BRWi reduced from $979.99 to only $699.99
Replies
0
Views
437
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Merch
Alerts