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The more you type, the deeper it gets.Technically, the previous management group under different ownership set these conditions and it led to Defiance nearly being closed. If we are to keep Defiance open, we need to make these changes. It is as simple as that and believe me when I say that there were many months of extensive consideration over whether or not we should do it at all.
If we left things alone, many people who had placed a deposit and/or ordered an action would not have received them anyways. In all likelihood, those who made deposits would have lost their money altogether.
Not spin. Just truth.
This is a difficult question to answer given the current circumstances. We are getting some cancelations, and some are changing from the previously low-priced Tenacity and anTi to other actions. These changes make it difficult to forecast production.Can you speak to timelines to restore production turnaround to sustainable levels? I'm into my 8th month waiting for a Deviant Tactical. Do you expect to get caught up in 4 months? 6? 12? Some transparency on path forward would help to restore confidence.
So defiance went from almost belly up to stable in a month. That was fast. I can tell you problem 1 is the ridiculous amount of action model offerings. Between model, sub model and action size for each there has to be over 100 different things to run. Doesn’t seem remotely necessary. Anti gone rebel gone deviant gone tenacity gone based on new pricing. Keep the anit x, the ruckus get rid of the 3 other ruckus offerings, the outcast what more does one need.Generally, what one believes and what actually happens in any situation can be two different things. Unless you are in the room when it happened, it usually is different by a little or a lot.
If the Rebel and Deviant didn't exist, I wouldn't own any Defiance actions. I would buy an Outcast if they offered it with a Rebel style bolt handle.So defiance went from almost belly up to stable in a month. That was fast. I can tell you problem 1 is the ridiculous amount of action model offerings. Between model, sub model and action size for each there has to be over 100 different things to run. Doesn’t seem remotely necessary. Anti gone rebel gone deviant gone tenacity gone based on new pricing. Keep the anit x, the ruckus get rid of the 3 other ruckus offerings, the outcast what more does one need.
Bighorn TL3 $900
Surgeon 591 $1700
Maybe I overpaid, but I spent +$200 on nitriding my last surgeon action I bought a few years ago. $1500 is for a bare action.Where?
Surgeon's website price is $1500
Fixed the price on the TL3. I paid $900 years ago, just looked them up and they are $1400 now
the origin is $900Fixed the price on the TL3. I paid $900 years ago, just looked them up and they are $1400 now
Nope. ARC is still making the most technically advanced actions on the public market for right around $1000.Do all companies plan on hiking up their prices like that?
What does a deviant offer that the ruckus doesn’t. If the deviant name was a staple to the company and they didn’t want to get rid of it why not machine the deviant like the ruckus. The ruckus really should be the new deviant. And what does the rebel offer as well that can’t be had. I really see no reason to have more than like 5 actions.If the Rebel and Deviant didn't exist, I wouldn't own any Defiance actions. I would buy an Outcast if they offered it with a Rebel style bolt handle.
Bolt handles, I like the Defiance style bolt handles.What does a deviant offer that the ruckus doesn’t. If the deviant name was a staple to the company and they didn’t want to get rid of it why not machine the deviant like the ruckus. The ruckus really should be the new deviant. And what does the rebel offer as well that can’t be had. I really see no reason to have more than like 5 actions.
The Deviant is more customizable than the Ruckus. I think there might be a liability concern pertaining to prefits if they kept the same name. I agree that Defiance has had WAY too many options for the majority of the market, but I can also see that would be a huge benefit for a select few.What does a deviant offer that the ruckus doesn’t. If the deviant name was a staple to the company and they didn’t want to get rid of it why not machine the deviant like the ruckus. The ruckus really should be the new deviant. And what does the rebel offer as well that can’t be had. I really see no reason to have more than like 5 actions.
Where did you get it nitrided?Maybe I overpaid, but I spent +$200 on nitriding my last surgeon action I bought a few years ago. $1500 is for a bare action.
Amazing how many folks have such a hard time believing Glen almost bankrupted another action company.
What other company did he bankrupt?Amazing how many folks have such a hard time believing Glen almost bankrupted another action company. An innovator he is, it’s been proven once again…not the best businessman. Loyalty can sometimes be blind, I guess.
Glenn was at Nesika before he started Defiance. But who even sees one their actions around anymore? They were popular in BR scene 2 decades ago.What other company did he bankrupt?
There was another one but for the life of me I cannot remember the name. That one was probably the worst one…wish I could remember its name.
Edit - I think it was Phoenix actions or something like that.
Glenn was at Nesika before he started Defiance. But who even sees one their actions around anymore? They were popular in BR scene 2 decades ago.
Can throw BAT in there for under $1900 as well. BAT Vampire is $1864 I believe. Not sure about their other models. They have a base price then get more expensive when you add features.Action cost, nitrided:
ARC Coup de Grace $899
Pierce Engineering $1085
Impact 737 $1390
Kelbly Prometheus $1400
Bighorn TL3 $1400
LP Fuzion $1450
Curtis Valor $1450
Terminus Zeus $1550
Surgeon 591 $1700
Defiance Deviant $1900
I love my defiance actions and their quality is amazing. But, time will tell if people are willing to spend 30-100+ % more than the competition.
Glenn was at Nesika before he started Defiance. But who even sees one their actions around anymore? They were popular in BR scene 2 decades ago.
I let this guy at the range with an Impact try my BAT. I felt sorry for the guy because I actually saw regret sweep over his face after he cycled my action.Can throw BAT in there for under $1900 as well. BAT Vampire is $1864 I believe. Not sure about their other models. They have a base price then get more expensive when you add features.
I let this guy at the range with an Impact try my BAT. I felt sorry for the guy because I actually saw regret sweep over his face after he cycled my action.
That sucks lol. Mine isn’t as smooth as I thought. It’s just an action though. I think holding and cycling it makes it harder to pull smoothly. Also haven’t applied any oil or grease on it either.I let this guy at the range with an Impact try my BAT. I felt sorry for the guy because I actually saw regret sweep over his face after he cycled my action.
Which action are you referring to?That sucks lol. Mine isn’t as smooth as I thought. It’s just an action though. I think holding and cycling it makes it harder to pull smoothly. Also haven’t applied any oil or grease on it either.
I have the vampire. It isn’t in anything though so I’m assuming that’s why it doesn’t feel smooth.Which action are you referring to?
The one Bat I had would bind a bit if you didn’t manipulate the bolt perfectly. Maybe I had a bad example.I let this guy at the range with an Impact try my BAT. I felt sorry for the guy because I actually saw regret sweep over his face after he cycled my action.
The one Bat I had would bind a bit if you didn’t manipulate the bolt perfectly. Maybe I had a bad example.
I haven't tried the Vampire. Mine is a BAT TR from SAC. The bolt will bind if I try to bind it, otherwise it's very smooth. I guess it depends how the actions are spec'd as well. I'd imagine if you tried a BAT benchrest action, it would bind quite easily, but the tactical action I have is nice.I have the vampire. It isn’t in anything though so I’m assuming that’s why it doesn’t feel smooth.
AreSo, now, I am corn-fused. I have seen the thread on Defiance being bought out and the great wailing and gnashing of teeth over the price.
Yet, in another thread, I am getting my ass handed to me on a shaky paper plate over inexpensive rifles that perform well.
So, which is it? Spend the price of a sedan on one rifle? Or not?
Personal preference. Do you want the most accurate and reliable rifle at any cost, or are you willing to have something that is just decent for a lot less? If you go to 12 matches and spend $15k-$20k a year on shooting, does it make sense to try to compete with a $800 Savage or a $4000 purpose built laser beam?So, now, I am corn-fused. I have seen the thread on Defiance being bought out and the great wailing and gnashing of teeth over the price.
Yet, in another thread, I am getting my ass handed to me on a shaky paper plate over inexpensive rifles that perform well.
So, which is it? Spend the price of a sedan on one rifle? Or not?
I tell lots of folks coming into the shop who want to start competing or get into long range, what guns do you have now that you could use? If you have one you can use, then start learning with that, it doesn't need to be perfect. Over the time you are learning basics and fundamentals upgrade stocks, triggers, muzzle brake/silencer, optics, etc. Once you get a basic grasp of fundamentals, maybe take a couple classes and shoot some matches. Then maybe you want to get some more performance from your rifle so depending what it is, re-build it. Take your rifle to a competent gunsmith to put a good barrel on it, if needed true the action/lap lugs, bed it into the stock. Now your into a rifle for half or less of a custom rifle out of the gate, you've hopefully built a solid foundation with your stock rifle, plus "you already own it" so why not keep shooting it.So, now, I am corn-fused. I have seen the thread on Defiance being bought out and the great wailing and gnashing of teeth over the price.
Yet, in another thread, I am getting my ass handed to me on a shaky paper plate over inexpensive rifles that perform well.
So, which is it? Spend the price of a sedan on one rifle? Or not?
Lots or none?Lots of top tier action options at that price point, or cheaper. Some of the most popular current rifle component makers were born from similar decisions. Defiance has left the door wide open.......
Cheers.
Isn’t it also aluminum?I have the vampire. It isn’t in anything though so I’m assuming that’s why it doesn’t feel smooth.