Same guy who bought McMillan, hopefully a good thing, not sure how too feel about it. Time will tell.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Where?New owner Bob Beck is already in the comments section of that post getting testy with people who question if this is really good for defiance.
Not a good look
On Defiance IG post, the usual troll comments and he’s feeding them.Where?
He is kind of right. These things have happened in the past and almost every time the same situation plays out.On Defiance IG post, the usual troll comments and he’s feeding them.
When will people realize to just ignore them, responding just comes off as insecure or sensitive, but I’m also not in his position so I don’t know.
View attachment 8015819View attachment 8015821
Totally agree, for the record I’m not for or against this, and like most I am skeptical. If I was going to look at a defiance action I would wait a while after this acquisition.He is kind of right. These things have happened in the past and almost every time the same situation plays out.
Brains behind product/production Leave or sell out.
New owners leverage reputation of name without continuing to innovate or put out anything relevant.
Slow Decline into irrelevancy, Like McMillan, Surgeon, and about 50 other gun companies.
What do the new owners bring to the table that will be a competitive advantage? How will they make the products better than the people who designed them?
First of all you have to be a moron to wait a year for an action. You can go to Altus, SPA ect and buy a new defiance action today. Second, Lone Peak, Impact and Terminus are taking away their market share. They will not be the dominant action manufacture in this precision rifle world for long, and Impact already stomped them out of the PRS Lead a few years ago. Its not going to get better.
So people have a legit reason to be worried. Either as an existing customer or someone waiting on product. If it was me, I would not wait for the bottom to fall out, good time to call up Tate. View attachment 8015830
Defiance recently had a price increase but they are so far behind they won't be shipping any of the higher priced actions for a year.Good time to get out. Ride the high of all the money rolling in last 2 years from strong sales and go retire, let it be someone else’s problem.
I do wonder what this means for Defiance prices, quality, and support.
I called about an extra bolt some months ago and was told it would be 13-16 months. I politely thanked the gentleman on the phone and bought a TL3 for small bore stuff.Defiance recently had a price increase but they are so far behind they won't be shipping any of the higher priced actions for a year.
I have been in meetings with company's who were buying other company's and "most times" when it is an outsider buying the company, the company tends to go down hill because the passion for the product isn't there anymore it's now an investment and ROI means everything.
I must do things backwards. I called to order an action a few weeks back and they gave me an estimated delivery date of January 2024. I said, if it takes that long to get an action, you better make me two of them.I called about an extra bolt some months ago and was told it would be 13-16 months. I politely thanked the gentleman on the phone and bought a TL3 for small bore stuff.
You must’ve said all the right words because I was told they weren’t taking any new orders. Had to clear out the backlog of existing orders for their vendors.I must do things backwards. I called to order an action a few weeks back and they gave me an estimated delivery date of January 2024. I said, if it takes that long to get an action, you better make me two of them.
You must’ve said all the right words because I was told they weren’t taking any new orders. Had to clear out the backlog of existing orders for their vendors.
That said, it makes me wonder what changed internally? They seemed to be humming right along with everybody else and then the lead times started building up to what it is now. I loved the machinist Mondays thread the had for awhile, they seemed to be cranking out a few hundred actions a month. Can they really have THAT many orders?
Agreed. I also know nothing about manufacturing, machining, etc, not my business. To slow down their line like that, is it out unreasonable to say they have orders in the thousands? Or did a machine go down, a key employee leave, etc?They seem to make a lot of actions for "house builds". Some builders like having their names on the side of actions, and Defiance is one of the few that will do that.
I would say they are selling above their capacity. And getting new machines is taking awhile at the moment. And it could be that they sold controlling interest in the company to raise capital. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.Agreed. I also know nothing about manufacturing, machining, etc, not my business. To slow down their line like that, is it out unreasonable to say they have orders in the thousands? Or did a machine go down, a key employee leave, etc?
I need the details on this pleasepoacher + money = still a poacher
I need the details on this please
Google his name and poaching. There are the nut-swingers that saddled up and rode to his defense so you'll need to use your best judgement and sort everything out. I don't want to post anything here. Seems like the type of guy that would try to sue.I need the details on this please
Well said Oldloser, and that is why most companies fail with either the children or grandchildren. Watching one go under right now because of all of the above. Doesn't mean it isn't a good product.**What I am about to say is just my experience outside this industry but in the manufacturing space. It in now way reflects on anyone in it. I have no knowledge of Defiance. I am just responding the assertion above. ***
I've seen the exact opposite. Most small and mid size firms are on their last legs. Usually the founder knows the space and sales, but cannot run the company right. They are told repeatedly to bring in professional management, a good operational accountant, and find some legal support. They often commingle personal stuff like boats and RVS with operating expenses and Capex. They ride a single product line and don't expand and revise either their lines or tools. They won't delegate nor build their team. The org chart looks like an amoeba eating a mold colony.
Sales is about finding a process that creates something someone will buy. But that is one KEY but small part of the overall picture. But you have to work ON the business as well as work IN the business. Eventually the lack of ON will create so many issues the founder can't fix it with bandaids.
Operating a business is about having key internal processes in place to keep sales going. Hiring and firing. Investment. Sales and delivery. Accounts payable and accounts receivable. Pricing and purchasing. Planning, commuincating, and execution of strategy.
In our space of precision rifle based on my observations I'd have to say MDT is probably the best at most of this.
The Extreme brand hopefully has a mature operating model in place where they can take over most of the business process while freeing the founders to sell.
As for trolls, most have never run a firm. They may be passionate about the product. But they are still a mob with torches and pitchforks. The new owner should just have a BBQ and invite everyone, listen to them, get some good ideas, and let it burn over. There is no such thing as bad publicity if you treat everyone as having a voice and good ideas. Hard to do, but making them show up face to face will turn it around every time.
Those 2 words are the problem when combined with hunting - "pros" and "influencers".This shit seems to be happening over and over with the hunting pros/influencers. Yikes, also not a good look
Gotta wonder how he acquired the capital to buy out both McMillan and Defiance. It does suck that douchebag ended up being the guy to buy Kelly and Glen out.poacher + money = still a poacher
boyscout + online forum = girlscoutpoacher + money = still a poacher
Found one.boyscout + online forum = girlscout
Bighorn already had their buyout, and their name is Zermatt Arms International. Things seem to be going dang well.Hope that Zermatt isn't next!
TM6
this story would only be funny if bob and the other guy suddenly were against making parts for evil firearms lol
so what your saying is the usual...everyone knows more than the person who sold it or the person who bought it...lololRather than responding to each individual comment that has transpired here, especially those who are making a lot of assumptions, and others who merely wish to make personal character attacks, we will simply state that the new owners have expressed and continue to act in a manner that does not imply changes to what has been and continues to be a success. Time will tell, and our product will speak for itself, period. Many successful companies have changed hands over the years, some for the better, some the same, and some not. We see this for the better, as we now have more resources at our disposal to improve upon and continue to make a high quality product, that has led to the demand and subsequent lead times from others who recognize that.
Going to be a hard sale for Tenacitys to go for $1595, Ruckus for $1695 and Deviants for $1795.
Gotta make that bottom line.Wow man the price increases on Defiance actions are over 27% for next year. If new ownership was intending to tank sales this would be a great way to do it. Yeah yeah, material cost increase, labor cost increases.
Going to be a hard sale for Tenacitys to go for $1595, Ruckus for $1695 and Deviants for $1795.
Yeah or more likely turn customers on to competitors with better pricing like oh I don't know maybe Impact, Zermatt, Lone Peak, Curtis etc.Gotta make that bottom line.