Defiance vs Big Horn vs Curtis

[kmontang]

Im doing my first from-scratch rifle build, and Im trying to pick what action to use. The rifle will be lightweight 308 or 6.5cm with an 18-inch barrel. the chassis Im using requires R700 compatibility, and I'm planning on running AICS mags. I've narrowed it down to these three manufacturers, Im leaning towards the following model from each.

1. Defiance AnTi
2.Big Horn TL3
3. Curtis Axiom

Each has positives. the AnTi is the lightest, the Big Horn probably has the best reputation, and the Curtis has a 60 Degree bolt throw that I love. Im pretty sure I'll be pleased with any of these three. How do you decide between them? I've pro/conned the shit out of them and just cant seem to make up my mind.

 

[EN2722]

I went through this exact dilemma a few months ago.

I finally decided on the TL3 due to the ability to change out the bolt heads and run a 223, 308 based cartridge, or SA magnum if my little heart desires.

Since, I’ve put a few hundred round through it and I’ve never been happier.

Like you said, you’ll be pleased with any of them. Just pick one!

 

[toader]

Outta those 3.....Defiance Machine by a mile!!

 

[M4guru]

If you like the bolt throw on the Curtis check out Terminus. Joel designed the Curtis actions and made some improvements when he broke out on his own. He does a lightened version for hunting. Great actions, great guy.

Apollo Lite/Ti | Terminus Actions | The Premium 3-Lug Rifle Action

Premium rifle action for the hunter wanting the reliability of 416-Stainless in the lightest configuration available - the ultimate lightweight rifle build.

terminusactions.com

 

[Matt_3479]

I have defiance deviant, bighorn tl3, terminus Zeus, (had a Curtis vector), stiller tac 30 and a kelbly atlas tactical.

For me personally I’d swap the idea of the Curtis for the terminus.

If you want 60 degree the terminus is a sweet heart. So smooth, super quick! The defiance is a beauty! Very smooth, feels extremely solid! It just locks up nicely. The bighorn is the most likely to bind out of those three. Now it is extremely smooth, has amazing features and feel like you get a lot of action for the money but if I’m not 100% straight on cycle I do bind it. I still very much enjoy it and it is the newest to me still so takes a bit of getting use too but I knew that going in. None of the others bind though minus the stiller but barely!!

Last one to consider is the kelbly atlas tactical. I can’t stress it enough how much value you get out of that action. Lightest bolt lift out of all of them by a lot, mechanical ejector, absolutely incredibly smooth cycle, runs in the dirtiest conditions no mater what, pre-fits ready available, trigger hanger incase your trigger goes down in comp and service is second to none.

My favourite would have to be the terminus. Just love the innovation in those actions, they super smooth, feel solid and Joel is awesome. Second place at the moment would be a tie between defiance and the kelbly but that tl3 is a sweet little action and once I get some shooting behind it I can imagine loving it more. Regardless I’m happy with every single one of my actions and would purchase a second one of any of them but the stiller.

 

[mtnhunter22]

Have a defiance and a couple TL3s. Can’t speak to the terminus or Curtis. What was said above about the TL3 biding a little more is true BUT I have never had a problem with binding or hang ups in an actual shooting situation, only dry fire. My DLC TL3 has gotten smoother with time and I love the feel of it. There are for sure different clearance dimensions with the defiance vs the bighorn but I enjoy both very much. Again, can’t speak to the terminus or Curtis but I’ve heard good about them as well. More so the terminus.

 

[kmontang]

Terminus is 100% new to me, but looks really solid.Never had hands on one, I’m curious how the tang will sit in the MPR chassis...

 

[Win223]

TL3 is awesome, just picked one up and it runs flawlessly. The easy bolt head swaps was a big positive for me, I've got big plans for too many barrels for this TL3. The controlled round feed and mechanical ejector is pretty sweet too...

 

[Longshot284]

Another vote for a TL3! As others have mentioned; super smooth, swappable bolt heads, CRF, etc. Shouldered prefits from tons of reputable shops are awesome. My short action lives most of its life as a 6.5 CM, but sometimes wears a 6 ARC for matches, a 223 for training, a 7mm rsaum for hunting and a smokeless muzzleloader setup from Arrowhead rifles. The versatility is simply amazing.

 

[acudaowner]

Isn't this like lary vrs darel vrs darel from the bob newheart show
I love my bighorn action and everything about it , but that said I could have just as easily enjoyed either or any of the actions mentioned except for a video with someone complaining about sand keeping his defiant action from working I have heard zero complaints from anyone that has one at the range stick a lb of sand in any action and something not wanted could happen to any of them . but there actions is every bit as nice as mine cost around the same prices the mechanical extractor and the push pin to change out the end piece is the only differance I know of between them there could be more I don't know about but get what ever one you want you should be happy with any of them may which ever provide you many years of great service .

 

[Matt_3479]

Terminus is 100% new to me, but looks really solid.Never had hands on one, I’m curious how the tang will sit in the MPR chassis...

Fits good in the mpa and the krg bravo/whiskey 3.

 

[Shoots 700's]

I have (2) TL3’s and a Kelby. Love the TL3 and its ability to swap bolt heads. Its smooth and doesnt bind while running it properly.

 

[Zack_va248]

I love my bighorn but my defiance was excellent too. Both are smooth as snot. Came down to the control the bighorn gives with controlled feed and mechanical ejection for me. You'll certainly be happy any route you take.

 

[EN2722]

Another vote for a TL3! As others have mentioned; super smooth, swappable bolt heads, CRF, etc. Shouldered prefits from tons of reputable shops are awesome. My short action lives most of its life as a 6.5 CM, but sometimes wears a 6 ARC for matches, a 223 for training, a 7mm rsaum for hunting and a smokeless muzzleloader setup from Arrowhead rifles. The versatility is simply amazing.

Could you please provide us pictures or an explanation on the muzzleloader set-up?

There’s a lot of + 1 for the TL3 in here

 

[mtnhunter22]

Another vote for a TL3! As others have mentioned; super smooth, swappable bolt heads, CRF, etc. Shouldered prefits from tons of reputable shops are awesome. My short action lives most of its life as a 6.5 CM, but sometimes wears a 6 ARC for matches, a 223 for training, a 7mm rsaum for hunting and a smokeless muzzleloader setup from Arrowhead rifles. The versatility is simply amazing.

Im really interested in how you’re turning a TL3 into a muzzleloader. Sounds awesome

 

[b6graham]

Im really interested in how you’re turning a TL3 into a muzzleloader. Sounds awesome

Have a friend with one. Not too complicated. I think he shoots 328s around 2800. Submoa at 500

 

[Win223]

I'm curious about the muzzle loader setup too, that's pretty awesome!

 

[King_beardsly]

I like bighorn actions, been running a TL3 all this year and a origin since a week after they went public.

 

[Matt_3479]

I can’t believe the positive for the bighorns! That’s awesome! Makes me more and more excited to run mine!!

Also extremely curious on this muzzle loader set up. Sounds like a game changer in my area!! Only muzzle loader or shotgun for deer. No rifle

 

[Hoser]

I went from Bighorns (had a few) to Terminus and dont regret the change one bit. My Terminus gets smoother and smoother. I have about 900-1,000 rounds on it and it is just plain awesome.

I ordered it with a 223 and a 308 bolt. And I dont have to fight with sliding extractors.

 

[bodhisafa]

I went from Bighorns (had a few) to Terminus and dont regret the change one bit. My Terminus gets smoother and smoother. I have about 900-1,000 rounds on it and it is just plain awesome.

I ordered it with a 223 and a 308 bolt. And I dont have to fight with sliding extractors.

what are the down sides to a sliding extractor ?

 

[Smokenaces]

Bighorn TL3. The ability to swap bolt head and control round feed sold me. I also like the availability of pre fit barrels on the market.

 

[DangerRanger]

Of those manufacturers I’ve had:

defiance tenacity
Curtis vector
bighorn tl3

I like them in that order. Still own the defiance, don’t miss the others really. Bighorn was not for me, tons of cock on close and didn’t like the bolt feel. Many love them, different strokes.

 

[xdeano]

Check out an ARC Archimedes also.

I've ran defiance, they're good. I'm running TL3. Look at terminus, impact, bat. Ordered an Archimedes...

There are lots of good actions out there.
Xdeano

Archimedes?

I dont hear much or see much about the American Rifle Co Archimedes actions. A good friend of mine is negative towards the action. But I didnt get a good reason. So who's actually using this action? How is it and if negative why? Is the action a true break through or is it a gimmick? Be honest...

www.snipershide.com

 

[IPoutdoors]

with a proper cocking piece for your trigger of choice in the TL3, its butter.

 

[MlimA]

I have the anTi and the Tl3, both are 6.5 cm. It’s really splitting hairs but I think if you’re going for absolute lightest weight rifle (if you’re gonna be packing it) the anTi wins. I think the Tl3 feels a bit more solid and smooth to operate, hard for me to put into words but I prefer it for general shooting. Either way I think you’ll be stoked

 

[Matt_3479]

with a proper cocking piece for your trigger of choice in the TL3, its butter.

I have that problem, so how do I fix it? Trigger is a tt diamond

 

[DangerRanger]

with a proper cocking piece for your trigger of choice in the TL3, its butter.

As long as you have adequate firing pin fall after because reducing the cocking piece is going to reduce pin fall. Some do some don’t

 

[b6graham]

As long as you have adequate firing pin fall after because reducing the cocking piece is going to reduce pin fall. Some do some don’t

trigger timing is a feel thing. if you dont time yours then you shouldnt complain about how it feels. thats on you.

 

[DangerRanger]

Op I would toss Borden into the mix, you can buy your trigger through Jim and he will time it for you. It will be perfect and you can decide if you want light lift and some coc or a little more lift and hot butter closed and it will or checked for pin fall. Jim has been timing actions for a very long time.

 

[b6graham]

Op I would toss Borden into the mix, you can buy your trigger through Jim and he will time it for you. It will be perfect and you can decide if you want light lift and some coc or a little more lift and hot butter closed and it will or checked for pin fall. Jim has been timing actions for a very long time.

so trash Zermatt for cock on close....then submit another company who also times triggers to their actions. got it.

 

[IPoutdoors]

I have that problem, so how do I fix it? Trigger is a tt diamond

Im using the -25 cocking piece for the diamond trigger.

 

[DangerRanger]

so trash Zermatt for cock on close....then submit another company who also times triggers to their actions. got it.

New I should not have commented. The difference is that filing a cocking piece or swapping a cocking piece is going to reduce pin fall. If your action has enough for that that’s fine and you’re good to go. I simply said to measure your pin fall on a cocking piece swap. Some do some dont. If it doesn’t, it’s going to take a ton of time to recut cocking cams and what not and it’s not worth it. Just run it with some coc.

Then I offered a company that will time it, measure everything and do it how you want for free and im an asshole. Whatever, This is obviously a hot button topic and I obviously disliked my bighorn so I’ll stop commenting and muddying up OPs thread since it truly does seem most people love them.

 

[b6graham]

New I should not have commented. The difference is that filing a cocking piece or swapping a cocking piece is going to reduce pin fall. If your action has enough for that that’s fine and you’re good to go. I simply said to measure your pin fall on a cocking piece swap. Some do some dont. If it doesn’t, it’s going to take a ton of time to recut cocking cams and what not and it’s not worth it. Just run it with some coc.

Then I offered a company that will time it, measure everything and do it how you want for free and im an asshole. Whatever, This is obviously a hot button topic and I obviously disliked my bighorn so I’ll stop commenting and muddying up OPs thread since it truly does seem most people love them.

what you fail to mention is that zermatt does that same thing for free as well. send them a trigger. they time it to your action and ship it all to you

some people dont buy their actions direct and choose to do it themselves.

 

[DangerRanger]

what you fail to mention is that zermatt does that same thing for free as well. send them a trigger. they time it to your action and ship it all to you

some people dont buy their actions direct and choose to do it themselves.

Great point have a good one

 

[SilentVapor631]

If you like the bolt throw on the Curtis check out Terminus. Joel designed the Curtis actions and made some improvements when he broke out on his own. He does a lightened version for hunting. Great actions, great guy.

Apollo Lite/Ti | Terminus Actions | The Premium 3-Lug Rifle Action

Premium rifle action for the hunter wanting the reliability of 416-Stainless in the lightest configuration available - the ultimate lightweight rifle build.

terminusactions.com

I've been wondering if you could run the new .22lr on that action that curtis is coming out with...

 

[SilentVapor631]

I'm in the Same state of mind with what I wanna but dude to ammo but the Price an Features have to match up....

Terminus zeus action is Sweet plus it says Harrisburg, PA on it... Sweet Set Screws

The Curtis vector action has been out for awhile but there a newer Model an you can also use there new Bolt coming out in a month that shoots down to .22lr....


Tl3 is has always been my favorite action but finishes last in my wallet with less over all features for the money

American rifle company Nucleus 2.0
Only thing is you have to fwild strip it to swap barrels

I don't know what to buy

 

[kthomas]

Of those manufacturers I’ve had:

defiance tenacity
Curtis vector
bighorn tl3

I like them in that order. Still own the defiance, don’t miss the others really. Bighorn was not for me, tons of cock on close and didn’t like the bolt feel. Many love them, different strokes.

Your trigger probably wasn't timed properly on the Bighorn, if you were experiencing heavy cock on close.