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Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
Slowly mix in what you learned it will take some time as we are a soft nation now. Maybe start off with a small group that is interested in camping,fishing and the out doors. It is contagious soon the other kids will want to do the same.
That's how I got my wife to shoot.
Slowly mix in what you learned it will take some time as we are a soft nation now. Maybe start off with a small group that is interested in camping,fishing and the out doors. It is contagious soon the other kids will want to do the same.
That's how I got my wife to shoot.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
Boy Scouts of America is now a religious vehicle for recruiting kids to their religious beliefs. The "religious" entities even brag about their infiltration and use of the BSA.
Boy Scouts of America is now a religious vehicle for recruiting kids to their religious beliefs. The "religious" entities even brag about their infiltration and use of the BSA.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
It is a serious matter.
I would address the parents and ask if they want their child to have a REAL scouting experience full of fun, adventure and learning or are they looking for a babysitter with a uniform? If they agree to the former make sure you go into detail about not only what you're going to teach them by why, and how that's going to relate to their child's development. Sure, it may be a challenge and tough for their kids but reiterate how it's going to build character and integrity. Then let them decide and take your course of action.
It is a serious matter.
I would address the parents and ask if they want their child to have a REAL scouting experience full of fun, adventure and learning or are they looking for a babysitter with a uniform? If they agree to the former make sure you go into detail about not only what you're going to teach them by why, and how that's going to relate to their child's development. Sure, it may be a challenge and tough for their kids but reiterate how it's going to build character and integrity. Then let them decide and take your course of action.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is a serious matter.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I would address the parents and ask if they want their child to have a REAL scouting experience full of fun, adventure and learning or are they looking for a babysitter with a uniform? </span>If they agree to the former make sure you go into detail about not only what you're going to teach them by why, and how that's going to relate to their child's development. Sure, it may be a challenge and tough for their kids but reiterate how it's going to build character and integrity. Then let them decide and take your course of action. </div></div>
BSA has become run by city folk for city kids. Good luck swimming against the current on that one. The biggest reason BSA is ruined is because of the kids' parents as a group.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is a serious matter.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I would address the parents and ask if they want their child to have a REAL scouting experience full of fun, adventure and learning or are they looking for a babysitter with a uniform? </span>If they agree to the former make sure you go into detail about not only what you're going to teach them by why, and how that's going to relate to their child's development. Sure, it may be a challenge and tough for their kids but reiterate how it's going to build character and integrity. Then let them decide and take your course of action. </div></div>
BSA has become run by city folk for city kids. Good luck swimming against the current on that one. The biggest reason BSA is ruined is because of the kids' parents as a group.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
I know what you're saying about it changing so much. I got my Eagle in '92, and even just a couple years later you could see it going down hill very rapidly. I worked at a camp the summers of 98 and 99 while going to school. The restrictions that were placed on what we could have the scouts doing was depressing.
All campsites were required to have running water, refirgeration (coolers didn't count), cooking had to be done over propane as they considered using an open wood fire to be unsanitary. Some of the camps in the area were required to have flush toilets rather than your standard latrine as the camps were now catigorized as day care facilities.
You can imagine how effective it was teaching wilderness survival in that environment. Basicly we were supposed to forget about the requirements in the book that the scouts actually demonstrate the skills. A theoretical discussion was supposed to be good enough.
There is a reason I stopped being involved.
I know what you're saying about it changing so much. I got my Eagle in '92, and even just a couple years later you could see it going down hill very rapidly. I worked at a camp the summers of 98 and 99 while going to school. The restrictions that were placed on what we could have the scouts doing was depressing.
All campsites were required to have running water, refirgeration (coolers didn't count), cooking had to be done over propane as they considered using an open wood fire to be unsanitary. Some of the camps in the area were required to have flush toilets rather than your standard latrine as the camps were now catigorized as day care facilities.
You can imagine how effective it was teaching wilderness survival in that environment. Basicly we were supposed to forget about the requirements in the book that the scouts actually demonstrate the skills. A theoretical discussion was supposed to be good enough.
There is a reason I stopped being involved.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 0481</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Slowly mix in what you learned it will take some time as we are a soft nation now. </div></div>
Yeah dont jump right into eating crickets or youre going to lose your troop pretty quickly. Id definitely take over. Make sure they all got the correct equipment, and start by having a (contest / game?) meet, and have them come up with various jerry rigged ways they can use their equipment. Dont stop untill they all run out of ideas (even the ridiculous ones). Then test them. The next month Give them basuc materials to build jerry rigged simple machines, shelters, medical stretchers, etc. build their confidence on that. Look for your leaders & followers. Look for break downs on communication , teamwork, lack of fundimental knolledge. Hotwash evaluation. Next session : same thing with your help and guidance.
Build skills then get into the hardcore survivalist. (eating nature etc)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 0481</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Slowly mix in what you learned it will take some time as we are a soft nation now. </div></div>
Yeah dont jump right into eating crickets or youre going to lose your troop pretty quickly. Id definitely take over. Make sure they all got the correct equipment, and start by having a (contest / game?) meet, and have them come up with various jerry rigged ways they can use their equipment. Dont stop untill they all run out of ideas (even the ridiculous ones). Then test them. The next month Give them basuc materials to build jerry rigged simple machines, shelters, medical stretchers, etc. build their confidence on that. Look for your leaders & followers. Look for break downs on communication , teamwork, lack of fundimental knolledge. Hotwash evaluation. Next session : same thing with your help and guidance.
Build skills then get into the hardcore survivalist. (eating nature etc)
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
I spent the last 10+ years as a scout leader. 4 years as a den leader in Cub Scouts and 6 years as the Advancement Chair in Boy Scouts. Now I'm just a comittee member.
IMHO, BSA soes not not stand for Baby Sitters of America and that needs to be made clear to the parents. The key is for the kids to have fun while learning things that will hwlp them later in life.
FWIW, my son made it through the whole program and is an Eagle Scout. He enlisted in the Navy and his Eagle got him ranked up to an E3. I think scouting was good for him and I am glad he stuck it out.
I think you'll find volunteering is worth it. You'll probably have a lot more to offer than someone who was never involved in scouting and you'll keep the kids a lot more interested than someone who had never been in the program.
I spent the last 10+ years as a scout leader. 4 years as a den leader in Cub Scouts and 6 years as the Advancement Chair in Boy Scouts. Now I'm just a comittee member.
IMHO, BSA soes not not stand for Baby Sitters of America and that needs to be made clear to the parents. The key is for the kids to have fun while learning things that will hwlp them later in life.
FWIW, my son made it through the whole program and is an Eagle Scout. He enlisted in the Navy and his Eagle got him ranked up to an E3. I think scouting was good for him and I am glad he stuck it out.
I think you'll find volunteering is worth it. You'll probably have a lot more to offer than someone who was never involved in scouting and you'll keep the kids a lot more interested than someone who had never been in the program.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
I would not encourage my kids to join BSA as it stands today. Should they make that choice I would allow them to do so but I would monitor it closely. The BSA in our area is run by the LDS Church and there is some religous influence due to that. A good friend of mine was a scout leader and I was amazed at the things they are no longer allowed to do that I was in my day. He would take these young men camping and shooting on his time and outside of scouts. The boys parents were all for it and supported him in every possible way. The church changed his "calling" and he is longer the Scout Leader much to the diappointment of the boys and their parents.
I think you can probably have some influence in what is done with the troop but the rules are no where near the same as when we were young and active in scouts.
I would not encourage my kids to join BSA as it stands today. Should they make that choice I would allow them to do so but I would monitor it closely. The BSA in our area is run by the LDS Church and there is some religous influence due to that. A good friend of mine was a scout leader and I was amazed at the things they are no longer allowed to do that I was in my day. He would take these young men camping and shooting on his time and outside of scouts. The boys parents were all for it and supported him in every possible way. The church changed his "calling" and he is longer the Scout Leader much to the diappointment of the boys and their parents.
I think you can probably have some influence in what is done with the troop but the rules are no where near the same as when we were young and active in scouts.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Boy Scouts of America is now a religious vehicle for recruiting kids to their religious beliefs. The "religious" entities even brag about their infiltration and use of the BSA. </div></div>
Better that religous folks get involved than the deviants who want to recruit our children to become sociopaths and twisted quasi-human fucks. I think its nice to see a stable organization that sees the true value of the scouting program and seeks to get the most out of it for each child. I wasnt the greatest scout, but I loved it and learned imensly from it. The fact that we met in a church building and opened with prayer didnt take anything away from scouts, maybe even helped.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Boy Scouts of America is now a religious vehicle for recruiting kids to their religious beliefs. The "religious" entities even brag about their infiltration and use of the BSA. </div></div>
Better that religous folks get involved than the deviants who want to recruit our children to become sociopaths and twisted quasi-human fucks. I think its nice to see a stable organization that sees the true value of the scouting program and seeks to get the most out of it for each child. I wasnt the greatest scout, but I loved it and learned imensly from it. The fact that we met in a church building and opened with prayer didnt take anything away from scouts, maybe even helped.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
Here's the 1911 Boy Scout manual for FREE.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29558/29558-h/29558-h.htm (HTML)
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/29558 (various files including Kindle)
Might want to see about getting a few printed out, maybe draw up some lesson plans, and let the current leader integrate it. No need to be the leader if he is already open to your help. Besides, it'll be good to get to know everyone first.
Here's the 1911 Boy Scout manual for FREE.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29558/29558-h/29558-h.htm (HTML)
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/29558 (various files including Kindle)
Might want to see about getting a few printed out, maybe draw up some lesson plans, and let the current leader integrate it. No need to be the leader if he is already open to your help. Besides, it'll be good to get to know everyone first.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcfd2201</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would not encourage my kids to join BSA as it stands today. Should they make that choice I would allow them to do so but I would monitor it closely. <span style="font-weight: bold">The BSA in our area is run by the LDS Church and there is some religous influence due to that.</span> A good friend of mine was a scout leader and I was amazed at the things they are no longer allowed to do that I was in my day. He would take these young men camping and shooting on his time and outside of scouts. The boys parents were all for it and supported him in every possible way. The church changed his "calling" and he is longer the Scout Leader much to the diappointment of the boys and their parents.
I think you can probably have some influence in what is done with the troop but the rules are no where near the same as when we were young and active in scouts. </div></div>
In the northwest too. They have nationally identified it as one of their most effective vehicles for recruiting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcfd2201</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would not encourage my kids to join BSA as it stands today. Should they make that choice I would allow them to do so but I would monitor it closely. <span style="font-weight: bold">The BSA in our area is run by the LDS Church and there is some religous influence due to that.</span> A good friend of mine was a scout leader and I was amazed at the things they are no longer allowed to do that I was in my day. He would take these young men camping and shooting on his time and outside of scouts. The boys parents were all for it and supported him in every possible way. The church changed his "calling" and he is longer the Scout Leader much to the diappointment of the boys and their parents.
I think you can probably have some influence in what is done with the troop but the rules are no where near the same as when we were young and active in scouts. </div></div>
In the northwest too. They have nationally identified it as one of their most effective vehicles for recruiting.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
I got my Eagle in 07. BSA has become a system run by the weak for the weak. Most of the kids are the sterotypical fat, lazy, whiny, wimpy, dorks, who run to mommy when things get tough. As stated in previous posts, BSA has put in place a ridiculous amount of restrictions, rules, and guidelines. Most of these rules etc. were clearly put in place by the weaklings and their hippie mothers who can't cope without AC or cupcakes and worry about scouting traumatizing their perfect children. If it wasn't for some of the great leaders in my troop, who went rogue and ignored the BSA Bull Shit, I would never have kept going. My troop leaders constantly pushed the boys with tough challenges that were designed to develop teamwork, leadership, integrity and character. It was definitely bordering para-military training with challeges like: racing against the leaders to get your "injured" buddy 5 miles back to camp using map & compass(no roads), building log structures with nothing by an ax and some rope, doing service projects for the commmunity that required hours of physical labor while still asking nothing in return, or playing games like man hunt and capture the flag. A lot of times it was hard work but we loved every minute of it.
Now that is how it worked for me. If you want to get something going like this you are going to need support from a few other leaders and you are going to have to be careful picking a group of kids who aren't going to blow your cover when they aren't having a good time. Know the rules and push everything you can to the limit, and when the limits are too strict then you organize a "non-scouting event" so the rules don't apply. Don't let BSA Bull Shit stand in your son's way of having a meaningful scouting experience.
Just my 2 cents. Hope you find it helpful.
I got my Eagle in 07. BSA has become a system run by the weak for the weak. Most of the kids are the sterotypical fat, lazy, whiny, wimpy, dorks, who run to mommy when things get tough. As stated in previous posts, BSA has put in place a ridiculous amount of restrictions, rules, and guidelines. Most of these rules etc. were clearly put in place by the weaklings and their hippie mothers who can't cope without AC or cupcakes and worry about scouting traumatizing their perfect children. If it wasn't for some of the great leaders in my troop, who went rogue and ignored the BSA Bull Shit, I would never have kept going. My troop leaders constantly pushed the boys with tough challenges that were designed to develop teamwork, leadership, integrity and character. It was definitely bordering para-military training with challeges like: racing against the leaders to get your "injured" buddy 5 miles back to camp using map & compass(no roads), building log structures with nothing by an ax and some rope, doing service projects for the commmunity that required hours of physical labor while still asking nothing in return, or playing games like man hunt and capture the flag. A lot of times it was hard work but we loved every minute of it.
Now that is how it worked for me. If you want to get something going like this you are going to need support from a few other leaders and you are going to have to be careful picking a group of kids who aren't going to blow your cover when they aren't having a good time. Know the rules and push everything you can to the limit, and when the limits are too strict then you organize a "non-scouting event" so the rules don't apply. Don't let BSA Bull Shit stand in your son's way of having a meaningful scouting experience.
Just my 2 cents. Hope you find it helpful.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
I’d suggest that you find some fathers that are willing to help you design some hip pocket type classes on trade’s knowledge such as basic electrical workings, or automotive function and repair. This will get the fathers involved, and could be the only source of this type of “Every man should know how to do this….” information for young kids. I got my Eagle in 2005, and the best years of my scouting where when fathers not just the troop leader got involved in teaching.
I’d suggest that you find some fathers that are willing to help you design some hip pocket type classes on trade’s knowledge such as basic electrical workings, or automotive function and repair. This will get the fathers involved, and could be the only source of this type of “Every man should know how to do this….” information for young kids. I got my Eagle in 2005, and the best years of my scouting where when fathers not just the troop leader got involved in teaching.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boss334OP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BSA has become a system run by the weak for the weak. Most of the kids are the sterotypical fat, lazy, whiny, wimpy, dorks, who run to mommy when things get tough. </div></div>
^^this, when I was a kid, Eagle projects were something big. Labor intensive, building something for the community. Nowadays its easy shit like organizing a one day food drive, or some feel good social experiment to help people get on welfare.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boss334OP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BSA has become a system run by the weak for the weak. Most of the kids are the sterotypical fat, lazy, whiny, wimpy, dorks, who run to mommy when things get tough. </div></div>
^^this, when I was a kid, Eagle projects were something big. Labor intensive, building something for the community. Nowadays its easy shit like organizing a one day food drive, or some feel good social experiment to help people get on welfare.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boss334OP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BSA has become a system run by the weak for the weak. Most of the kids are the sterotypical fat, lazy, whiny, wimpy, dorks, who run to mommy when things get tough. </div></div>
^^this, when I was a kid, Eagle projects were something big. Labor intensive, building something for the community. Nowadays its easy shit like organizing a one day food drive, or some feel good social experiment to help people get on welfare. </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Everyone gets trophy... and fatty snacks. </span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boss334OP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BSA has become a system run by the weak for the weak. Most of the kids are the sterotypical fat, lazy, whiny, wimpy, dorks, who run to mommy when things get tough. </div></div>
^^this, when I was a kid, Eagle projects were something big. Labor intensive, building something for the community. Nowadays its easy shit like organizing a one day food drive, or some feel good social experiment to help people get on welfare. </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Everyone gets trophy... and fatty snacks. </span>
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
Contact your scouting District or Council Office and find out when they are doing the next adult Cub Scout leadership training. This will give the tools and information to develop and run a great scouting program. Actually take both the Cub and Boy scout training.
I have worked with scouting for 40 years. No religious recruiting in my troops, District or Council. All about the kids and giving them great life skills and leadership opportunities.
Get the training and then dive in head first. That worked for me when I got started. The best thing I enjoy is still hearing from my Eagle Scouts and watching them get promoted in business and the military. That Eagle is tough to get and well recognized by all.
Good luck. Let me know if I can be of any help
Contact your scouting District or Council Office and find out when they are doing the next adult Cub Scout leadership training. This will give the tools and information to develop and run a great scouting program. Actually take both the Cub and Boy scout training.
I have worked with scouting for 40 years. No religious recruiting in my troops, District or Council. All about the kids and giving them great life skills and leadership opportunities.
Get the training and then dive in head first. That worked for me when I got started. The best thing I enjoy is still hearing from my Eagle Scouts and watching them get promoted in business and the military. That Eagle is tough to get and well recognized by all.
Good luck. Let me know if I can be of any help
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
From personal experience. I had the opportunity to help run a Merit badge at a scout camp a couple of years ago. A LV Metro officer and myself were running the Rifle Shooting, a friend was running the Shotgun Shooting. It was amazing how few kids this was their first time picking up a firearm. They have become in many ways “soft” or have catered to the current trends. While many of the old badges and skills remain, there are many that are a reflection of the current trends.
Only real hope is to step up and be involved. Help guide the next generation or accept the results that are currently happening. Don’t bemoan the results if you are not willing to fix the problem.
From personal experience. I had the opportunity to help run a Merit badge at a scout camp a couple of years ago. A LV Metro officer and myself were running the Rifle Shooting, a friend was running the Shotgun Shooting. It was amazing how few kids this was their first time picking up a firearm. They have become in many ways “soft” or have catered to the current trends. While many of the old badges and skills remain, there are many that are a reflection of the current trends.
Only real hope is to step up and be involved. Help guide the next generation or accept the results that are currently happening. Don’t bemoan the results if you are not willing to fix the problem.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
Back when I was involved in Scouting there were two kinds of kids, the one's who wanted to get involved and there were the one's whose parents forced them to go to compensate for their lacking parenting skills. My advice is to shop around for a pack that is attached to a reputable BSA Troop. Around here there are a few Troops that go for the High Adventure "hardcore" stuff and some that like to do fundraisers. I'm sure the same applies to your area. Once you find a Pack get involved and change things if you don't like the direction they are going. I started out as a Bobcat and earned Eagle Scout, attending Philmont and National Jamboree.
Back when I was involved in Scouting there were two kinds of kids, the one's who wanted to get involved and there were the one's whose parents forced them to go to compensate for their lacking parenting skills. My advice is to shop around for a pack that is attached to a reputable BSA Troop. Around here there are a few Troops that go for the High Adventure "hardcore" stuff and some that like to do fundraisers. I'm sure the same applies to your area. Once you find a Pack get involved and change things if you don't like the direction they are going. I started out as a Bobcat and earned Eagle Scout, attending Philmont and National Jamboree.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boss334OP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got my Eagle in 07. BSA has become a system run by the weak for the weak. Most of the kids are the sterotypical fat, lazy, whiny, wimpy, dorks, who run to mommy when things get tough. As stated in previous posts, BSA has put in place a ridiculous amount of restrictions, rules, and guidelines. Most of these rules etc. were clearly put in place by the weaklings and their hippie mothers who can't cope without AC or cupcakes and worry about scouting traumatizing their perfect children. If it wasn't for some of the great leaders in my troop, who went rogue and ignored the BSA Bull Shit, I would never have kept going. My troop leaders constantly pushed the boys with tough challenges that were designed to develop teamwork, leadership, integrity and character. It was definitely bordering para-military training with challeges like: racing against the leaders to get your "injured" buddy 5 miles back to camp using map & compass(no roads), building log structures with nothing by an ax and some rope, doing service projects for the commmunity that required hours of physical labor while still asking nothing in return, or playing games like man hunt and capture the flag. A lot of times it was hard work but we loved every minute of it.
Now that is how it worked for me. If you want to get something going like this you are going to need support from a few other leaders and you are going to have to be careful picking a group of kids who aren't going to blow your cover when they aren't having a good time. Know the rules and push everything you can to the limit, and when the limits are too strict then you organize a "non-scouting event" so the rules don't apply. Don't let BSA Bull Shit stand in your son's way of having a meaningful scouting experience.
Just my 2 cents. Hope you find it helpful. </div></div>
Well said. I got my eagle in 98 and it was getting bad. My dad stayed with it on the district level and it just got worse. It is pathetic how bad they celibrate "mediocrity".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boss334OP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got my Eagle in 07. BSA has become a system run by the weak for the weak. Most of the kids are the sterotypical fat, lazy, whiny, wimpy, dorks, who run to mommy when things get tough. As stated in previous posts, BSA has put in place a ridiculous amount of restrictions, rules, and guidelines. Most of these rules etc. were clearly put in place by the weaklings and their hippie mothers who can't cope without AC or cupcakes and worry about scouting traumatizing their perfect children. If it wasn't for some of the great leaders in my troop, who went rogue and ignored the BSA Bull Shit, I would never have kept going. My troop leaders constantly pushed the boys with tough challenges that were designed to develop teamwork, leadership, integrity and character. It was definitely bordering para-military training with challeges like: racing against the leaders to get your "injured" buddy 5 miles back to camp using map & compass(no roads), building log structures with nothing by an ax and some rope, doing service projects for the commmunity that required hours of physical labor while still asking nothing in return, or playing games like man hunt and capture the flag. A lot of times it was hard work but we loved every minute of it.
Now that is how it worked for me. If you want to get something going like this you are going to need support from a few other leaders and you are going to have to be careful picking a group of kids who aren't going to blow your cover when they aren't having a good time. Know the rules and push everything you can to the limit, and when the limits are too strict then you organize a "non-scouting event" so the rules don't apply. Don't let BSA Bull Shit stand in your son's way of having a meaningful scouting experience.
Just my 2 cents. Hope you find it helpful. </div></div>
Well said. I got my eagle in 98 and it was getting bad. My dad stayed with it on the district level and it just got worse. It is pathetic how bad they celibrate "mediocrity".
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
Scouting, as a whole, has gone downhill in my opinion.
I am an Eagle Scout. Received my Eagle and God and Country in 1962 and was inducted into the OA.
The scouting experience is solely predicated upon the leadership at pack/troop level.
I can remember back in the very early '70's when the BSA tried to adapt its structure to be more incorporating of the inner-city youth.
A scout, at that time, could actually attain the rank of Eagle without ever having to go camping or cook a meal. Needless to say, that crap didn't last long.
Get involved. State your philosophy with respect to the scouting ideals, traditions and laws . . . and "be prepared" to break our your wallet; parents ALWAYS forget to get their scouts the things they need.
God bless you.
Scouting, as a whole, has gone downhill in my opinion.
I am an Eagle Scout. Received my Eagle and God and Country in 1962 and was inducted into the OA.
The scouting experience is solely predicated upon the leadership at pack/troop level.
I can remember back in the very early '70's when the BSA tried to adapt its structure to be more incorporating of the inner-city youth.
A scout, at that time, could actually attain the rank of Eagle without ever having to go camping or cook a meal. Needless to say, that crap didn't last long.
Get involved. State your philosophy with respect to the scouting ideals, traditions and laws . . . and "be prepared" to break our your wallet; parents ALWAYS forget to get their scouts the things they need.
God bless you.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
Hope you guys don't mind an outsider's point of view, but in the past few weeks, I have had the priveledge of meeting hundreds of Scouts and about a dozen Scout Masters at my Ranger Station here in Anchorage. I haven't met so many competent, highly motivated and well behaved kids all at once before, and it made me wish that I had the same opportunity when I was growing up. Every time they'd come in looking for trail info, everything I threw at them that was age-group appropriate was nowhere near hardcore enough for these little dudes. Every time I'd give them a trail briefing I'd get "Thats for little kids, sir. where's your good stuff?". and sure enough, I'd send them out on the challenging trails, and they'd come back reeking of campfire smoke and full of grins looking for the next mountain or trail to conquer.
I understand that these Troops may not be the norm, but they're out there, and I'm sure there's a lot more that have the potential to be just as awesome. I hope you and your Troop get off to a great start, Blueclawz. And when you do, come up with them some time and we'll send them out on some unforgettable character building adventures. Its people and organizations like BSA that keep me from thinking that we're doomed to become a nation of limp-wristed obese sissies.
Hope you guys don't mind an outsider's point of view, but in the past few weeks, I have had the priveledge of meeting hundreds of Scouts and about a dozen Scout Masters at my Ranger Station here in Anchorage. I haven't met so many competent, highly motivated and well behaved kids all at once before, and it made me wish that I had the same opportunity when I was growing up. Every time they'd come in looking for trail info, everything I threw at them that was age-group appropriate was nowhere near hardcore enough for these little dudes. Every time I'd give them a trail briefing I'd get "Thats for little kids, sir. where's your good stuff?". and sure enough, I'd send them out on the challenging trails, and they'd come back reeking of campfire smoke and full of grins looking for the next mountain or trail to conquer.
I understand that these Troops may not be the norm, but they're out there, and I'm sure there's a lot more that have the potential to be just as awesome. I hope you and your Troop get off to a great start, Blueclawz. And when you do, come up with them some time and we'll send them out on some unforgettable character building adventures. Its people and organizations like BSA that keep me from thinking that we're doomed to become a nation of limp-wristed obese sissies.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
Must be some regional differences at play here, perhaps beyond the usual Council/District/Unit differences.
I'll get to the CUB Scouts part after giving y'all some info on my experiences and observations.
I personally was the product of an LDS pretty much NON-Scouting troop, as implemented at purely the local unit level. Leadership was lax beyond one or two campouts a year, and I eventually came to despise basketball as it was the default activity when the leaders and the kids' leadership so often had nothing else to do. I consider many of those Wednesday nights wasted. No one wanted to do Frisbee instead. At one point, one of the leaders responded and took me out to shoot a time or two.
I just came off the mountain Saturday with two of my boys, who were both recruited into the leadership training camps, Timberline for the Scouts and Varsity All Stars for the Varsity Scouts. I *STILL* have a hard time coming to grips with the school-style segregation into Tiger Cubs, Cubs, Webelos, 11-year old Scouts in the LDS version, Scouts, Varsity Scouts, and what's the next, Venturers or Explorers or whatever. But I digress.
Over the past 12 years here in SoUT, I've seen the local, nominally 100% participation at least by the "active" LDS guys and the occasional non-LDS who comes just to Scouting, go from fairly strong to fairly weak to in the past half-year return to strong and take steps towards genuine excellence. Adult leaders who *press the Scouts to lead themselves* are the key, but they cannot fully succeed without those Scouts rising to the challenge. When both sides of that equation "get it", the program is more than worthwhile and builds young men of the type WE want to be salted throughout our nation. Yes, read all the New Testament implications into that which you can.
It is NOT "like that" everywhere, referring to the critical posts above, I can assure you.
There is a lot more good to be had from, and even in spite of, the Scouting program than the oath which still stubbornly includes a pledge to remain "morally straight" and teaching self-reliance skills. Shankster, you're just plain wrong about how it's done here in the desert lands. No one gets a medal (merit badge) unless they really do complete the requirements.
So for Cubs, I strongly suggest that along the way to taking over, you look to ANY willing adult leader as an ally and even co-conspirator in the great cause of helping even the silly young Cubs find the steel in their backbones which the government-dependency lobby wants to either keep hidden or weaken though disuse and the moral equivalent of rust if not outright corrosive attack.
There *will* be attrition. Be not discouraged. For some boys, cars, girls (and let's hope THAT doesn't go to far too fast), guns, motorcycles, sports teams (ick!), or work will become more attractive than what Scouting can offer them. But when that happens, you are likely to have still made them better men than they would have been before they exercised their backbone to go off on those other pursuits.
And in my opinion, we also need to even teach that "God made me that way" is no excuse to drop lit matches on everything you see. Same for born kleptomaniacs. Live within the Scout Law, honor the Oath, live the Motto, keep your pants on, and your life becoming a man *will* be more rewarding, less troublesome, and will make our country a better place.
It starts with the Cubs. It starts with some things oriented towards little kids, but done well, it progresses and builds them up into more than what they would have been without it.
BTW, the local Catholic kid who was in our LDS Scout troop until he wandered off is still Catholic, the local Mormons still like him, his family still likes us, and his girlfriend is not pregnant. Pretty good for a useless program taken over by "religious" groups, eh? There's even a religious award for Muslims and Jews, in case you didn't know... And he started as a Cub.
Must be some regional differences at play here, perhaps beyond the usual Council/District/Unit differences.
I'll get to the CUB Scouts part after giving y'all some info on my experiences and observations.
I personally was the product of an LDS pretty much NON-Scouting troop, as implemented at purely the local unit level. Leadership was lax beyond one or two campouts a year, and I eventually came to despise basketball as it was the default activity when the leaders and the kids' leadership so often had nothing else to do. I consider many of those Wednesday nights wasted. No one wanted to do Frisbee instead. At one point, one of the leaders responded and took me out to shoot a time or two.
I just came off the mountain Saturday with two of my boys, who were both recruited into the leadership training camps, Timberline for the Scouts and Varsity All Stars for the Varsity Scouts. I *STILL* have a hard time coming to grips with the school-style segregation into Tiger Cubs, Cubs, Webelos, 11-year old Scouts in the LDS version, Scouts, Varsity Scouts, and what's the next, Venturers or Explorers or whatever. But I digress.
Over the past 12 years here in SoUT, I've seen the local, nominally 100% participation at least by the "active" LDS guys and the occasional non-LDS who comes just to Scouting, go from fairly strong to fairly weak to in the past half-year return to strong and take steps towards genuine excellence. Adult leaders who *press the Scouts to lead themselves* are the key, but they cannot fully succeed without those Scouts rising to the challenge. When both sides of that equation "get it", the program is more than worthwhile and builds young men of the type WE want to be salted throughout our nation. Yes, read all the New Testament implications into that which you can.
It is NOT "like that" everywhere, referring to the critical posts above, I can assure you.
There is a lot more good to be had from, and even in spite of, the Scouting program than the oath which still stubbornly includes a pledge to remain "morally straight" and teaching self-reliance skills. Shankster, you're just plain wrong about how it's done here in the desert lands. No one gets a medal (merit badge) unless they really do complete the requirements.
So for Cubs, I strongly suggest that along the way to taking over, you look to ANY willing adult leader as an ally and even co-conspirator in the great cause of helping even the silly young Cubs find the steel in their backbones which the government-dependency lobby wants to either keep hidden or weaken though disuse and the moral equivalent of rust if not outright corrosive attack.
There *will* be attrition. Be not discouraged. For some boys, cars, girls (and let's hope THAT doesn't go to far too fast), guns, motorcycles, sports teams (ick!), or work will become more attractive than what Scouting can offer them. But when that happens, you are likely to have still made them better men than they would have been before they exercised their backbone to go off on those other pursuits.
And in my opinion, we also need to even teach that "God made me that way" is no excuse to drop lit matches on everything you see. Same for born kleptomaniacs. Live within the Scout Law, honor the Oath, live the Motto, keep your pants on, and your life becoming a man *will* be more rewarding, less troublesome, and will make our country a better place.
It starts with the Cubs. It starts with some things oriented towards little kids, but done well, it progresses and builds them up into more than what they would have been without it.
BTW, the local Catholic kid who was in our LDS Scout troop until he wandered off is still Catholic, the local Mormons still like him, his family still likes us, and his girlfriend is not pregnant. Pretty good for a useless program taken over by "religious" groups, eh? There's even a religious award for Muslims and Jews, in case you didn't know... And he started as a Cub.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
FUCK sports!! you know how many AWSOME campouts were ruined for us kids because the dipshit scoutleader had to get home to watch the Jazz game?? C'mon, the Jazz????
Damn sports ruined more scout trips than church ever did.
FUCK sports!! you know how many AWSOME campouts were ruined for us kids because the dipshit scoutleader had to get home to watch the Jazz game?? C'mon, the Jazz????
Damn sports ruined more scout trips than church ever did.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
Out of curiosity, are there other organizations that provide a more uniform experience? Gordonstoun-based systems like Expeditionary Learning Outward Bound (which AFAIK is an in-school organization that is different from Outward Bound Wildnerness) come to mind, although I have no direct experience.
Interesting factoid about the Boy Scouts and LDS influence: other groups have adapted by creating directly affiliated groups, to include Catholic and Jewish Boy Scout troops.
Even more interesting: given the option, expatriate Israelis often do not send their children to Jewish Boy Scout troops, but instead have opened chapters of Tzofim (Israeli Boy Scouts) in the US. The Tzofim is a paramilitary organization designed to give children a leg up in being prepared for service in Israel's draft army. Some say it was the inspiration for Hezbollah's Boy Scout troops.
This leads to the question: Eagle Scout, where's your RPG badge?
Out of curiosity, are there other organizations that provide a more uniform experience? Gordonstoun-based systems like Expeditionary Learning Outward Bound (which AFAIK is an in-school organization that is different from Outward Bound Wildnerness) come to mind, although I have no direct experience.
Interesting factoid about the Boy Scouts and LDS influence: other groups have adapted by creating directly affiliated groups, to include Catholic and Jewish Boy Scout troops.
Even more interesting: given the option, expatriate Israelis often do not send their children to Jewish Boy Scout troops, but instead have opened chapters of Tzofim (Israeli Boy Scouts) in the US. The Tzofim is a paramilitary organization designed to give children a leg up in being prepared for service in Israel's draft army. Some say it was the inspiration for Hezbollah's Boy Scout troops.
This leads to the question: Eagle Scout, where's your RPG badge?
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
Latest big hoopla is the BSA declining Gay's in the organization. All the Gay rights activists have been griping about it but since the BSA is an independant organization they can allow admittance to whom they choose..
Rick
Latest big hoopla is the BSA declining Gay's in the organization. All the Gay rights activists have been griping about it but since the BSA is an independant organization they can allow admittance to whom they choose..
Rick
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
I was in scouts when I was young. Earned my eaglescout and helped assist the scout master for a few years after. Currently my son is in cub scouts. We started in Tiger, I was his den leader and have moved up with him. He is now a Webelow scout. We will crossover to Boy Scouts. The organization has changed from the time I was in to now. It is more regulated and more focus is put on safety for the children. The pack/troop we are involved in is chartered through a baptist church here. The reason I like this organization is because of it's moral values. My daughter did not join girlscouts because of the pathes that that organization chose. I am so happy that the B.S.A. chose to resist the pressure that these "lifestyle" people are putting on them.
Sorry I may have gotten off topic there! Definately get involved with the pack. This is one of those things that you get out of, what you put in to it.
I was in scouts when I was young. Earned my eaglescout and helped assist the scout master for a few years after. Currently my son is in cub scouts. We started in Tiger, I was his den leader and have moved up with him. He is now a Webelow scout. We will crossover to Boy Scouts. The organization has changed from the time I was in to now. It is more regulated and more focus is put on safety for the children. The pack/troop we are involved in is chartered through a baptist church here. The reason I like this organization is because of it's moral values. My daughter did not join girlscouts because of the pathes that that organization chose. I am so happy that the B.S.A. chose to resist the pressure that these "lifestyle" people are putting on them.
Sorry I may have gotten off topic there! Definately get involved with the pack. This is one of those things that you get out of, what you put in to it.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FUCK sports!! you know how many AWSOME campouts were ruined for us kids because the dipshit scoutleader had to get home to watch the Jazz game?? C'mon, the Jazz????
Damn sports ruined more scout trips than church ever did. </div></div>
Hmmm, different reason but I guess you hate roundball too???
We *did* have one Scout off the mountain mid-week because of a baseball tournament, and/or his Dad had to go back to work and maybe didn't want to make the 2-hour drive again...
I love that camp--aside from the porta-potties, spring water from a spigot every other campsite, and that shower house (optional for use), it's still a fairly primitive experience. Even the staff sleeps in tents.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FUCK sports!! you know how many AWSOME campouts were ruined for us kids because the dipshit scoutleader had to get home to watch the Jazz game?? C'mon, the Jazz????
Damn sports ruined more scout trips than church ever did. </div></div>
Hmmm, different reason but I guess you hate roundball too???
We *did* have one Scout off the mountain mid-week because of a baseball tournament, and/or his Dad had to go back to work and maybe didn't want to make the 2-hour drive again...
I love that camp--aside from the porta-potties, spring water from a spigot every other campsite, and that shower house (optional for use), it's still a fairly primitive experience. Even the staff sleeps in tents.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
I think most of what I am saying has already been said but I will echo it anyway. The Boy Scouts like much of our society has become nannyized. However it is still possible to find troops that reflect more of the older values we remember as scouts from years past. While you are on the Eastern Shore so this troop is probably too far away I can say that Troop 945 in Damascus MD is sponsered by our IWLA chapter and they are certainly more inclined than most troops to offer a more traditional camping focused experience.
I would guess that if you look around a bit you will be able to find a troop in your part of MD that is better than most. Local leadership really matters. Maybe a post on MDshooters will help you find a good troop.
I wish you the best of luck.
I think most of what I am saying has already been said but I will echo it anyway. The Boy Scouts like much of our society has become nannyized. However it is still possible to find troops that reflect more of the older values we remember as scouts from years past. While you are on the Eastern Shore so this troop is probably too far away I can say that Troop 945 in Damascus MD is sponsered by our IWLA chapter and they are certainly more inclined than most troops to offer a more traditional camping focused experience.
I would guess that if you look around a bit you will be able to find a troop in your part of MD that is better than most. Local leadership really matters. Maybe a post on MDshooters will help you find a good troop.
I wish you the best of luck.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
My son was in Cub Scouts and I was the Packmaster. I was diasappointed with everything about scouts as it clearly was not the same program I went through 35 years ago.
Trying to get parents to help out was impossible, they wanted to drop their kid off and opick them up in 2 hours. Parents bought winning Pinewood derby cars off ebay so little Johnny would win. Getting support for outdoor activities was ridiculous and most of the kids were lazy and whiney like their parents. The paperwork required every year to recertify the pack was a pain in the ass and it always cost me money. The leadership will need to come from you. We helped many kids get much more out of scouts than was required. When our boys left the pack for Boy Scouts they were ready!!
My son retired from scouts after his first year as a boy scout because they were even bigger wussies. He joined an orginization called "The Young Marines" and he loves it. They have great leaders and push the YM to do better. The Boy Scouts actually kicked the Young Marines out of a land nav competition because they looked to para-military and held an unfair advantage due to training. There is a YM group in MD just not sure how far they are from you. Here is the link:
Young Marines in Maryland
My son was in Cub Scouts and I was the Packmaster. I was diasappointed with everything about scouts as it clearly was not the same program I went through 35 years ago.
Trying to get parents to help out was impossible, they wanted to drop their kid off and opick them up in 2 hours. Parents bought winning Pinewood derby cars off ebay so little Johnny would win. Getting support for outdoor activities was ridiculous and most of the kids were lazy and whiney like their parents. The paperwork required every year to recertify the pack was a pain in the ass and it always cost me money. The leadership will need to come from you. We helped many kids get much more out of scouts than was required. When our boys left the pack for Boy Scouts they were ready!!
My son retired from scouts after his first year as a boy scout because they were even bigger wussies. He joined an orginization called "The Young Marines" and he loves it. They have great leaders and push the YM to do better. The Boy Scouts actually kicked the Young Marines out of a land nav competition because they looked to para-military and held an unfair advantage due to training. There is a YM group in MD just not sure how far they are from you. Here is the link:
Young Marines in Maryland
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
I agree with a lot of you that the BSA has completely made a 180 since I was in some 20 years ago.
I literally flipped out when my step son informed me that he was going to go for his 'Video Game Badge'.
If it were me I'd get a few liked minded guys and turn your troop into what it should be. It will take a lot of work and time, but today's BSA is a joke!
The 'Greenie Beanies' that took over our local troops came up with the bright idea to sell off the local retreat so that they could purchase an even BIGGER retreat over an hour away. The retreat, Camp Gunther Hog, had been in use since the early 1920s. I knew we were doomed when it was announced, and discovered that one of the local scout masters was a prominent real estate broker in our area.
I agree with a lot of you that the BSA has completely made a 180 since I was in some 20 years ago.
I literally flipped out when my step son informed me that he was going to go for his 'Video Game Badge'.
If it were me I'd get a few liked minded guys and turn your troop into what it should be. It will take a lot of work and time, but today's BSA is a joke!
The 'Greenie Beanies' that took over our local troops came up with the bright idea to sell off the local retreat so that they could purchase an even BIGGER retreat over an hour away. The retreat, Camp Gunther Hog, had been in use since the early 1920s. I knew we were doomed when it was announced, and discovered that one of the local scout masters was a prominent real estate broker in our area.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: h4everything</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boss334OP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got my Eagle in 07. BSA has become a system run by the weak for the weak. Most of the kids are the sterotypical fat, lazy, whiny, wimpy, dorks, who run to mommy when things get tough. As stated in previous posts, BSA has put in place a ridiculous amount of restrictions, rules, and guidelines. Most of these rules etc. were clearly put in place by the weaklings and their hippie mothers who can't cope without AC or cupcakes and worry about scouting traumatizing their perfect children. If it wasn't for some of the great leaders in my troop, who went rogue and ignored the BSA Bull Shit, I would never have kept going. My troop leaders constantly pushed the boys with tough challenges that were designed to develop teamwork, leadership, integrity and character. It was definitely bordering para-military training with challeges like: racing against the leaders to get your "injured" buddy 5 miles back to camp using map & compass(no roads), building log structures with nothing by an ax and some rope, doing service projects for the commmunity that required hours of physical labor while still asking nothing in return, or playing games like man hunt and capture the flag. A lot of times it was hard work but we loved every minute of it.
Now that is how it worked for me. If you want to get something going like this you are going to need support from a few other leaders and you are going to have to be careful picking a group of kids who aren't going to blow your cover when they aren't having a good time. Know the rules and push everything you can to the limit, and when the limits are too strict then you organize a "non-scouting event" so the rules don't apply. Don't let BSA Bull Shit stand in your son's way of having a meaningful scouting experience.
Just my 2 cents. Hope you find it helpful. </div></div>
Well said. I got my eagle in 98 and it was getting bad. My dad stayed with it on the district level and it just got worse. It is pathetic how bad they celibrate "mediocrity".
</div></div>
Finished in 99 myself, OA in 98. I stayed on for another year actively and then faded out as other responsibilities came along. You guys noted it quite well IMO. My brother and I were lucky, we belonged to a troop that was primarily run by involved fathers, many of which who earned Star, Life, or Eagle themselves. The mothers of the boys supported the group but were largely not in positions such as Scoutmaster.
The troops near us that were run by women tended to have complaints to the scout leaders at Jamborees because their whiny "boys" were being excluded from games, rules favored only the best and everyone else couldn't win too, etc. etc.
I got a petition email from Change.org yesterday about some "Eagle Scout who is the proud of two lesbian moms" that wanted me to sign off on a thing to allow open homosexuals in scouting.
I wrote them back with a simple message:
"I refuse to sign this petition as it is in direct conflict with Scouting Values. They should also vote to revoke this boy's Eagle Badge as he is undeserving of such an honor.
He is in direct conflict with 2 of those virtues... Obedience to God's commands and Reverence. Pull it, he has demonstrated that he is not capable of upholding 1/6th of the basic scouting principles."
Scouting is going downhill just as fast as the rest of this country.
I'm currently sitting on the committee of our local Venture Crew that NHRPC sponsors. The training required of me just to be allowed to be involved had nothing to do with scouting and everything to do with "Safety" and "Policies for safe scouting".... seems reasonable until you look at it and the entire package of training was about how to counsel abused kids, look for suicide attempts, don't be alone with scouts, and on and on...
ETA: Sorry for the derailment, BC... I would agree that the best bet is for you to assume leadership of the pack and begin working more traditional scouting activities into the pack. There are going to be drop-outs but that is to be expected. I think you will be surprised at how quickly they will come around if you bring the coaching and life skills in a fun manner, I was originally part of an inner city troop and in 2.5 years I only got through Tenderfoot. In 2.5 more years I was executing my Eagle project.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: h4everything</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boss334OP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got my Eagle in 07. BSA has become a system run by the weak for the weak. Most of the kids are the sterotypical fat, lazy, whiny, wimpy, dorks, who run to mommy when things get tough. As stated in previous posts, BSA has put in place a ridiculous amount of restrictions, rules, and guidelines. Most of these rules etc. were clearly put in place by the weaklings and their hippie mothers who can't cope without AC or cupcakes and worry about scouting traumatizing their perfect children. If it wasn't for some of the great leaders in my troop, who went rogue and ignored the BSA Bull Shit, I would never have kept going. My troop leaders constantly pushed the boys with tough challenges that were designed to develop teamwork, leadership, integrity and character. It was definitely bordering para-military training with challeges like: racing against the leaders to get your "injured" buddy 5 miles back to camp using map & compass(no roads), building log structures with nothing by an ax and some rope, doing service projects for the commmunity that required hours of physical labor while still asking nothing in return, or playing games like man hunt and capture the flag. A lot of times it was hard work but we loved every minute of it.
Now that is how it worked for me. If you want to get something going like this you are going to need support from a few other leaders and you are going to have to be careful picking a group of kids who aren't going to blow your cover when they aren't having a good time. Know the rules and push everything you can to the limit, and when the limits are too strict then you organize a "non-scouting event" so the rules don't apply. Don't let BSA Bull Shit stand in your son's way of having a meaningful scouting experience.
Just my 2 cents. Hope you find it helpful. </div></div>
Well said. I got my eagle in 98 and it was getting bad. My dad stayed with it on the district level and it just got worse. It is pathetic how bad they celibrate "mediocrity".
</div></div>
Finished in 99 myself, OA in 98. I stayed on for another year actively and then faded out as other responsibilities came along. You guys noted it quite well IMO. My brother and I were lucky, we belonged to a troop that was primarily run by involved fathers, many of which who earned Star, Life, or Eagle themselves. The mothers of the boys supported the group but were largely not in positions such as Scoutmaster.
The troops near us that were run by women tended to have complaints to the scout leaders at Jamborees because their whiny "boys" were being excluded from games, rules favored only the best and everyone else couldn't win too, etc. etc.
I got a petition email from Change.org yesterday about some "Eagle Scout who is the proud of two lesbian moms" that wanted me to sign off on a thing to allow open homosexuals in scouting.
I wrote them back with a simple message:
"I refuse to sign this petition as it is in direct conflict with Scouting Values. They should also vote to revoke this boy's Eagle Badge as he is undeserving of such an honor.
He is in direct conflict with 2 of those virtues... Obedience to God's commands and Reverence. Pull it, he has demonstrated that he is not capable of upholding 1/6th of the basic scouting principles."
Scouting is going downhill just as fast as the rest of this country.
I'm currently sitting on the committee of our local Venture Crew that NHRPC sponsors. The training required of me just to be allowed to be involved had nothing to do with scouting and everything to do with "Safety" and "Policies for safe scouting".... seems reasonable until you look at it and the entire package of training was about how to counsel abused kids, look for suicide attempts, don't be alone with scouts, and on and on...
ETA: Sorry for the derailment, BC... I would agree that the best bet is for you to assume leadership of the pack and begin working more traditional scouting activities into the pack. There are going to be drop-outs but that is to be expected. I think you will be surprised at how quickly they will come around if you bring the coaching and life skills in a fun manner, I was originally part of an inner city troop and in 2.5 years I only got through Tenderfoot. In 2.5 more years I was executing my Eagle project.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
My son joined Tiger Cubs last year and I was the Den Leader. We started the first meeting with 9 Tiger Cubs, and 18 other Cub Scouts all together. By the end of the first month we had 4 Tigers 5 other Cub Scouts, halfway through the year 3 Tigers 2 others the final award ceremony my son was the only kid there to receive his patch. We went to both Fall and Spring Cub scout camps, and it was full of a bunch of freaking nerds, I mean adults and children. My son was bored at camp, most of the events were something a toddler could do. Of course my son was shooting a .22 rifle at 5 years old and had his own compound bow at 4. So bb guns and toy bows were a joke to him. But we made the best of it.
Our Scoutmaster lost his job at the end of the year and I haven't heard from him all Summer. He was wanting me to take over as Scoutmaster and was going to help me get started next year. I had plans to take over and try and revamp the whole pack. I am really having second thoughts now. Too many parents just looking to drop kids off and be done with it. All the blue collar people have moved on from scouting in this area. You have to have strong parental support to have a strong troop and we just don't have that here.
Sad thing is my son really enjoyed it even though at the end he was by himself. We have talked about taking him to another troop about 30 miles from here and they have a really strong program. Just not sure, as stated Scouting just isn't what it used to be. Good luck whatever you decide.
My son joined Tiger Cubs last year and I was the Den Leader. We started the first meeting with 9 Tiger Cubs, and 18 other Cub Scouts all together. By the end of the first month we had 4 Tigers 5 other Cub Scouts, halfway through the year 3 Tigers 2 others the final award ceremony my son was the only kid there to receive his patch. We went to both Fall and Spring Cub scout camps, and it was full of a bunch of freaking nerds, I mean adults and children. My son was bored at camp, most of the events were something a toddler could do. Of course my son was shooting a .22 rifle at 5 years old and had his own compound bow at 4. So bb guns and toy bows were a joke to him. But we made the best of it.
Our Scoutmaster lost his job at the end of the year and I haven't heard from him all Summer. He was wanting me to take over as Scoutmaster and was going to help me get started next year. I had plans to take over and try and revamp the whole pack. I am really having second thoughts now. Too many parents just looking to drop kids off and be done with it. All the blue collar people have moved on from scouting in this area. You have to have strong parental support to have a strong troop and we just don't have that here.
Sad thing is my son really enjoyed it even though at the end he was by himself. We have talked about taking him to another troop about 30 miles from here and they have a really strong program. Just not sure, as stated Scouting just isn't what it used to be. Good luck whatever you decide.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
Boy Scouts in my days prepared us for war.
There are no trophies awarded when your enemy shoots you in the head before you shoot him in the head.
Screw that self esteem crap . . . .
Boy Scouts in my days prepared us for war.
There are no trophies awarded when your enemy shoots you in the head before you shoot him in the head.
Screw that self esteem crap . . . .
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Spade 13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Screw that self esteem crap . . . . </div></div>
Exactly, when a boy is a sharply honed outdoorsman who lives up to the scout law & oath, he will have all the self esteem he needs. And probably turn out to be a badass high speed MF!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Spade 13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Screw that self esteem crap . . . . </div></div>
Exactly, when a boy is a sharply honed outdoorsman who lives up to the scout law & oath, he will have all the self esteem he needs. And probably turn out to be a badass high speed MF!
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
yeah the boy scouts are 1 badge away from being the girl scouts these days
BUT least they're not smokin crack in an alley and actually involved in today's scouting, whatever today's scouting has become.
the troop leaders too. don't blame scouting as an organization, but also look at the leaders. alot are just hippy tree hugger hippies that needed to drive their volvo station wagon somewhere else a few nights a month.
liability too....look at that, much like everything else, lawyers have taken the fun, challenge and the "risk" out of alot of things. i'm sure that's another major contirbution to the softening of scouting.
yeah the boy scouts are 1 badge away from being the girl scouts these days
BUT least they're not smokin crack in an alley and actually involved in today's scouting, whatever today's scouting has become.
the troop leaders too. don't blame scouting as an organization, but also look at the leaders. alot are just hippy tree hugger hippies that needed to drive their volvo station wagon somewhere else a few nights a month.
liability too....look at that, much like everything else, lawyers have taken the fun, challenge and the "risk" out of alot of things. i'm sure that's another major contirbution to the softening of scouting.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Boy Scouts of America is now a religious vehicle for recruiting kids to their religious beliefs. The "religious" entities even brag about their infiltration and use of the BSA. </div></div>
Shankster any bias against religion? That is laughable how you phrased that. You act like religious ties to the Boy Scouts are new and somehow insiduous. This is an organization that has promoted faith and morality since it's inception.
I was "infiltrated" into the Boy Scouts at a young age through my religion, so I guess that makes me a sleeper agent.
I earned my eagle scout, but that was not nearly as valuable as the friendships I made that I still have with other guys that I grew up with involved in the scouting program.The other valuable things learned were the survival skills, shooting experience and yes, even the character building.
As far as Cubs go, they were similiar then to what you are talking about OP. We made stupid crafts and didn't do anything fun until the actual Boy Scouts. It was night and day, so don't lose hope there are still lot's of good BSA troops out there teaching survival skills, shooting, and other good stuff every boy should learn.If your kid hates Cubs, I say let him skip that and then go to Boy Scouts when he is 12.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Boy Scouts of America is now a religious vehicle for recruiting kids to their religious beliefs. The "religious" entities even brag about their infiltration and use of the BSA. </div></div>
Shankster any bias against religion? That is laughable how you phrased that. You act like religious ties to the Boy Scouts are new and somehow insiduous. This is an organization that has promoted faith and morality since it's inception.
I was "infiltrated" into the Boy Scouts at a young age through my religion, so I guess that makes me a sleeper agent.
I earned my eagle scout, but that was not nearly as valuable as the friendships I made that I still have with other guys that I grew up with involved in the scouting program.The other valuable things learned were the survival skills, shooting experience and yes, even the character building.
As far as Cubs go, they were similiar then to what you are talking about OP. We made stupid crafts and didn't do anything fun until the actual Boy Scouts. It was night and day, so don't lose hope there are still lot's of good BSA troops out there teaching survival skills, shooting, and other good stuff every boy should learn.If your kid hates Cubs, I say let him skip that and then go to Boy Scouts when he is 12.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: verdugo60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your kid hates Cubs, I say let him skip that and then go to Boy Scouts when he is 12.
</div></div>
Similar to what I did. Hated Cubs, went back to the BSA troop at "not quite" 11 y/o.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: verdugo60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your kid hates Cubs, I say let him skip that and then go to Boy Scouts when he is 12.
</div></div>
Similar to what I did. Hated Cubs, went back to the BSA troop at "not quite" 11 y/o.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
I earned my Eagle in 2009, so I really have no knowledge of how awesome scouts used to be other than stories. I feel it has to do with the type of people that are getting involved in scouting at all levels. My troop was not funded/based out of any religious organization. The leadership(other than oversight)was the sole responsibility of the scouts. -<span style="font-weight: bold">Get the scouts in control of what they are doing.</span> Because of this style of leadership our troop went on a minimum of one camp out per month with at least one high adventure per year. We didn't care if you were able to afford all of the scout uniform but you had better know how to tie the simple knots (square, thieves, bowline, taut-line, half-hitch, two-half-hitch, etc). The majority of the adult leadership in the troop came from scouts in the troop that earned Eagle and had aged out but stayed on to assist. Too many of those who earned Eagle went off to do other things and never returned to scouting. In the four years that I have been semi-inactive the troop has lost a lot of that leadership and has grown softer. There is a bright side though as the new scoutmaster has made some changes and the adult leadership is once again about 70% eagles from the troop.
My big gripe with the path to Eagle becoming soft has to do with society. In order to do anything physical/permanent for an Eagle project it has to be run through the city. Passing any idea for improvement takes a minimum of 6 months where I live. And when it does pass it has a bunch of amendments to the point where only adults can work on your project.
Sorry, this looked like a good place to vent/rant
I earned my Eagle in 2009, so I really have no knowledge of how awesome scouts used to be other than stories. I feel it has to do with the type of people that are getting involved in scouting at all levels. My troop was not funded/based out of any religious organization. The leadership(other than oversight)was the sole responsibility of the scouts. -<span style="font-weight: bold">Get the scouts in control of what they are doing.</span> Because of this style of leadership our troop went on a minimum of one camp out per month with at least one high adventure per year. We didn't care if you were able to afford all of the scout uniform but you had better know how to tie the simple knots (square, thieves, bowline, taut-line, half-hitch, two-half-hitch, etc). The majority of the adult leadership in the troop came from scouts in the troop that earned Eagle and had aged out but stayed on to assist. Too many of those who earned Eagle went off to do other things and never returned to scouting. In the four years that I have been semi-inactive the troop has lost a lot of that leadership and has grown softer. There is a bright side though as the new scoutmaster has made some changes and the adult leadership is once again about 70% eagles from the troop.
My big gripe with the path to Eagle becoming soft has to do with society. In order to do anything physical/permanent for an Eagle project it has to be run through the city. Passing any idea for improvement takes a minimum of 6 months where I live. And when it does pass it has a bunch of amendments to the point where only adults can work on your project.
Sorry, this looked like a good place to vent/rant
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RJW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Contact your scouting District or Council Office and find out when they are doing the next adult Cub Scout leadership training.
I have worked with scouting for 40 years.
Good luck. Let me know if I can be of any help </div></div>
Follow this advice. This is the best advice in this thread. Use the PM function.
Let me say this one more time:
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold"> Follow this advice. This is the best advice in this thread</span></span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RJW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Contact your scouting District or Council Office and find out when they are doing the next adult Cub Scout leadership training.
I have worked with scouting for 40 years.
Good luck. Let me know if I can be of any help </div></div>
Follow this advice. This is the best advice in this thread. Use the PM function.
Let me say this one more time:
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold"> Follow this advice. This is the best advice in this thread</span></span>
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
WOW. There sure is a lot of whining in this thread. I've got news for you. Your sons' quality of experience in Scouting is DIRECTLY tied to your personal level of participation. His experience will be as good or bad as YOU choose to make it. The entire BSA experience depends on capable adult volunteers who care about their sons education.
The key is to find a couple of like minded adults, men or women, who will help share the load of leadership. No one adult can do it all or you will burn out quickly. People will gravitate to their natural position in the pack or troop after you weed out the leader wannabees and slackers. Some parents always say they will help and then never actually do anything. As a leader you need to identify these people early on and only assign them non essential activities. If someone volunteers to do something help them be successful, many of these adults are still learning how to be an adult. They may turn out to be one of your greatest assets later.
There is a lot of untouched adult talent out there, they just don't want to be in charge of the whole shebang. One person can be in charge of planning activities but someone else may actually be better at participating in them. Find everyone's strengths and let them do their job. No volunteer organization runs perfectly so learn how to have a plan B,C, and D.
As far as the religious aspect, my son's troop was nondenominational and held meetings at the Catholic church in the middle of LDS country. We had a mix of Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and LDS boys. We were known as the troop that had fun and we produced a higher than average number of Eagles, my son included. I worked some with the Great Salt Lake Council, and while some of the troops were ultra religious, some were not. The good troops had good leaders whatever their religious leanings were. They didn't wait for someone else to make the experience good for their boys.
Current day liability concerns has invaded much of what scouts are allowed to do and how they do it. Your pack or troop will need someone who isn't afraid of computers and paperwork to keep things legal and within the bounds of your insurance. This alone will keep one person busy on a constant basis.
Scouting is a major commitment of an adults time. This is a big hurdle for many to cross, especially if you have lots of kids (+girls) with varied interests. Best time of my life has been the years I've spent with my son through out his scouting career.
Good advice - go to those leadership meetings.
WOW. There sure is a lot of whining in this thread. I've got news for you. Your sons' quality of experience in Scouting is DIRECTLY tied to your personal level of participation. His experience will be as good or bad as YOU choose to make it. The entire BSA experience depends on capable adult volunteers who care about their sons education.
The key is to find a couple of like minded adults, men or women, who will help share the load of leadership. No one adult can do it all or you will burn out quickly. People will gravitate to their natural position in the pack or troop after you weed out the leader wannabees and slackers. Some parents always say they will help and then never actually do anything. As a leader you need to identify these people early on and only assign them non essential activities. If someone volunteers to do something help them be successful, many of these adults are still learning how to be an adult. They may turn out to be one of your greatest assets later.
There is a lot of untouched adult talent out there, they just don't want to be in charge of the whole shebang. One person can be in charge of planning activities but someone else may actually be better at participating in them. Find everyone's strengths and let them do their job. No volunteer organization runs perfectly so learn how to have a plan B,C, and D.
As far as the religious aspect, my son's troop was nondenominational and held meetings at the Catholic church in the middle of LDS country. We had a mix of Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and LDS boys. We were known as the troop that had fun and we produced a higher than average number of Eagles, my son included. I worked some with the Great Salt Lake Council, and while some of the troops were ultra religious, some were not. The good troops had good leaders whatever their religious leanings were. They didn't wait for someone else to make the experience good for their boys.
Current day liability concerns has invaded much of what scouts are allowed to do and how they do it. Your pack or troop will need someone who isn't afraid of computers and paperwork to keep things legal and within the bounds of your insurance. This alone will keep one person busy on a constant basis.
Scouting is a major commitment of an adults time. This is a big hurdle for many to cross, especially if you have lots of kids (+girls) with varied interests. Best time of my life has been the years I've spent with my son through out his scouting career.
Good advice - go to those leadership meetings.
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
Read that link to the 1911 handbook for ideas on how it used to be, and how you can make it more like that again. It was truly a paramilitary organization by design.
There is nothing inherently wrong with kids nowadays...they are simply a product of how they are raised.
I see nothing wrong with the way it is integrating religion, in fact it has always been one of the core values. Nowadays, it is likely needed more than ever.
Fact is, this country has a severe shortage of honorable me who fear God but nothing else, are capable of handling themselves in the wilderness or in an emergency, who understand teamwork and aren't afraid to lead. Good on you for trying to get involved in producing some of these...even if the boy scounts aint what it was it is still better than playing xbox all day.
Every passing day I get a little more disgusted by what I see around me...I'm trying hard not to end up being the bitter guy in Gran Torino. I'm going to look into what the boy scouts around here are up to...
Read that link to the 1911 handbook for ideas on how it used to be, and how you can make it more like that again. It was truly a paramilitary organization by design.
There is nothing inherently wrong with kids nowadays...they are simply a product of how they are raised.
I see nothing wrong with the way it is integrating religion, in fact it has always been one of the core values. Nowadays, it is likely needed more than ever.
Fact is, this country has a severe shortage of honorable me who fear God but nothing else, are capable of handling themselves in the wilderness or in an emergency, who understand teamwork and aren't afraid to lead. Good on you for trying to get involved in producing some of these...even if the boy scounts aint what it was it is still better than playing xbox all day.
Every passing day I get a little more disgusted by what I see around me...I'm trying hard not to end up being the bitter guy in Gran Torino. I'm going to look into what the boy scouts around here are up to...
Re: Cub Scouts - WTF?
I'm not sure of its already been suggested. It you need one of these
I haven't seen the newest BSA handbook but inside should be a guide of what you can do within the framework of the organization. It has largely "gone soft" but that doesn't mean there is no merit to it or it's principles. Just poor leadership.
I'm not sure of its already been suggested. It you need one of these
