Deploying with your own weapon????

[PeteCamp]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, I think he bumps priority of build to deploying soldiers and Marines and/or law enforcement (as it should be). So, very long wait times are typical. </div></div>

I have a question for those going on deployments. Do the armed forces now allow you to bring your own weapon to the party? I keep seeing this here and there and it seems strange. I can understand LE needs, but since when did the military change this?

Just curious what the regs are.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

no military cannot take a personal weapon with us. I think the comment you quoted was in reference to Mike Lau at TBA, it was saying that when a service member puts an order in with him he bumps it to the top of the line kinda like a thanks for your service kind of thing

 

[PeteCamp]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

Pretty much what I thought. Yes, I did see that about TBA but I've also seen it in other posts - or at least the suggestion. Thought maybe something had changed from the "olden days."

BTW Hats off to guys who do this for our troops.

 

[marc.soileau1]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

Certain units such as Delta on the army side have more latitude on which weapons used. They are not personal weapons, but follow a lot different guidelines than our regular line units.

 

[Lazlo]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

Getting a weapon into theater is pretty easy. It's the getting it back out where the difficulties surface.

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

I haven't seen anyone with a personal firearm on deployment. I have heard of people bringing AR15 piston uppers, but I don't know how true it is. I wouldn't want to risk any sort of customs infraction though. That would be a pricey mistake, and frankly, an M4 is a pretty solid weapon system. Just not worth the risk. Some units allow personal optics to go with you, provided you understand that the military doesn't take responsibility for them if something happens.

 

[sinarms]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

I do not see why they would want to, its not like they will get a bonus for bringing it.

 

[Kells81]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

When I was at Kalsu I noticed a couple soldiers had middy rifles. While not an entire weapon I think personal uppers are all over in country here.

 

[SuperXJeff]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

If I thought my own weapon would be an asset I would sure as hell bring it. As far as getting it back? Please... If I came back home alive and my own personal weapon helped me to do that.Jeff

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

There was a black market in 'Nam. Guys bought and sold 'items' as they came and went in/out of country. The 'items' stayed in-country.

I can't tell you whether the same is true in the sandbox, but would seem to me that some enterprising young warrior(s) should have gotten something like this up and running by now...

Greg

 

[gugubica]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Infantry01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Certain units such as Delta on the army side have more latitude on which weapons used. They are not personal weapons, but follow a lot different guidelines than our regular line units. </div></div>

Delta can run what ever the hell they want.

But, there is little benifit to using a personal weapon, they can supply just about anything an Operator wants.

Mission will always dictate though.

 

[srv656s]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

There's a guy I ran into at the range that said he brought his own registered micro uzi to Afghanistan when he was deployed. He had some fantastic gear at the range and claimed to be a SWAT sniper too... May be BS, I don't know...

 

[Falar]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

If you get caught with a POW in theatre you are in deep shit.

 

[CavalrySoldier3ACR]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

Legally, you absolutely cannot bring your own firearms, or swords, or axes or martial arts weapons, etc. The only exception are knives, but they need to be reasonable. No Rambo III types. I did see soldiers who brought their own uppers; however, you could be subject to disciplinary action for using non-issues equipment on your weapon. Optics are typically OK, but if you put a new trigger group or upper that is not govenment sanctioned, you would face command action, especially if there is an incident that occurs and they are looking for scapegoats. If you get away with brining it and using it, you may have trouble bringing it home. I wasn't even allowed to bring back a 3X scope I took off a mortar. If you get caught trying to bring something back, you can get in allot of trouble with customs. One of the captains in my battalion got in a great deal of trouble trying to sneak back a pistol. Thank goodness I didn't follow through with my own plans to sneak one back. I understand your desire to bring your own stuff. I would have brought my Kimber 1911 if I could have, but it was a no-go.

 

[palma]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

Now that multiple people have given the exact same answer, notwithstanding the previous responses, how about a different question.... How about using a battlefield find? Isn't the AK47 taken off the civ Iraqi a privately owned gun? There are numerous photos and vids of guys using unissued guns. The previously linked document said that mere possession of a private gun was a no go.

 

[Falar]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now that multiple people have given the exact same answer, notwithstanding the previous responses, how about a different question.... How about using a battlefield find? Isn't the AK47 taken off the civ Iraqi a privately owned gun? There are numerous photos and vids of guys using unissued guns. </div></div>

I never saw anyone (except SF types) using AKs. Sure, lots of of people (msyelf included) posed for photos with captured weapons but no one used them. I don't know why someone would want to pick up a POS weapon off an afghani/iraqi and try to use it anyway. SF guys may use newer AKs in good condition in an effort to "blend in" for the same reason they dress like the locals.

 

[JPro]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

I personally know a guy who was sent a Colt LW Commander in a large can of peaches. His father weighted it to feel normal and had the lid soldered back on to look legit. The guy could not figure out a way to get it back home.

 

[drmarc]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

Not sure of policy but I know for sure a Colonel in Army Aviation carried his own Colt 1911 in combat. I would assume officers had some leaway....

 

[christian77]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now that multiple people have given the exact same answer, notwithstanding the previous responses, how about a different question.... How about using a battlefield find? Isn't the AK47 taken off the civ Iraqi a privately owned gun? There are numerous photos and vids of guys using unissued guns. The previously linked document said that mere possession of a private gun was a no go.</div></div>
It wasn't uncommon in the beggining of the war for dudes to have battlefield pick-ups, I carried a Sig P220 someone didn't need anymore and Glock19s are more than abundant. Doesn't really happen now though.

Per bringing your own toys to the show...that's a good way to find yourself in deep shit since it violates half a dozen regs not to mention ITARs. Upper receivers aren't uncommon though...people have them shipped over and sell 'em right before they leave.

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

I've heard mention of optics and uppers being brought over, and left there...nothing else though.

 

[JJones75]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

never been to the east , but i'm fucking amazed what can be shipped via Fed-Ex !! obviously not declairing whats actualy inside ,got some contractor buddys that ship all kinds of shit home

 

[krink85]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

The first time I came home you could have packed a camel if you wanted to. They checked baggage where we flew out of in iraq and that was it. Some ho humm PFC checked me and my gear. No metal detectors, no x-rays, no pat downs. Now they wont even let you keep the shrapnel that you found in the area where you were standing 5 minutes before it blew up. The customs process is crazy, takes forever, and they check EVERYTHING!

 

[LARMIKE]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally know a guy who was sent a Colt LW Commander in a large can of peaches. His father weighted it to feel normal and had the lid soldered back on to look legit. The guy could not figure out a way to get it back home. </div></div>

ALL boxes are X-Rayed to see what you have in them.

 

[rcnpthfndr]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now that multiple people have given the exact same answer, notwithstanding the previous responses, how about a different question.... How about using a battlefield find? Isn't the AK47 taken off the civ Iraqi a privately owned gun? There are numerous photos and vids of guys using unissued guns. The previously linked document said that mere possession of a private gun was a no go. </div></div>

i ran a para FN/FAL during my second tour. kept the M4 in the stryker, this was 03-05. we couldnt do it often this last rotation, alot of the foreign weapons being used "NOW" are taken from a cache site not from the locals. IIRC it wasnt until 06 that the locals could have 1 AK-47 and x numbers of rounds for each Military age Male per household. As many can probably vouch for, when you got on a new fob, old left behind milvans were often like christmas when opened. weapons and other stuff are always left behind in those

 

[JoeSmith]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

Forever put out of your mind that any non-standard gear of any kind is/was/has or ever will be used by anyone, anytime, or anywhere.
Furthermore, if it's use has not been documented in a book then that is complete proof that said gear is not/has not/never was used by US Forces in War.
Finally and unless a company rep claims it's equipment's use on combat, then that constitutes absolute, unassailable and irrefutable validation that said gear was ever used by anyone in combat.

 

[CavalrySoldier3ACR]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

Officers are not given any more latitude than anyone else when it comes to using non-issues weapons. I carried a captured Browning High-power during OIF I, because I needed a sidearm and was issues an M16A2. Since I met with local Iraqi leaders in conference rooms and offices, the rifle was not practical, so I concealed the pistol in the small of my back. Once day, when the Squadron Commander and I were caught in the middle of a riot, all by ourselves, he pulled out his M9 and I pulled out the HP. We were facing a couple of hundred pissed off Iraqi's at the time ready to storm the building we were in. He looked over at my pistol and commented that personally owned weapons were not allowed in theater. At that point I looked him square in the eyes and said "Sir, is this really the time to be pointing that out to me?" He looked back at me and said "Captain, that's a valid point". He never mentioned the pistol again. I carried it for the rest of the year, but my best freind, who was our JAG talked me out of trying to bring it home. Legally, you can only used captured enemy weapons if you are in a dire situation and have no other recourse but to use them at that point in time, otherwise it is illegal to carry them for use. We got away with allot of things in OIF I that you would be crusified for these days.

 

[bachelorjack]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

My experience ended in 05.

A lot of us ran Glock 19's. Getting them over there was cake. They weren't going to leave however, and were put to better use in your replacement's hands. Generally, he bought it from you, and the next guy bought it from him. If you went back, you just brought another and sold it when you left.

Sometimes they checked your gear when you left, other times not so much. There were times I felt like a dunce for leaving behind some sort of awesome treasure. But getting caught trying to sneak something out was something I wasn't going to risk.

I have no idea what they do now. I know there were a few ways they smuggled stuff in and out and throughout. My wingman was banging some girl who worked with the mail. Every time he tapped her, some secret or another dropped out. Like something out of Mario Brothers.

Where there is a will there is a way.

I can tell you, I got harassed more for Oakleys and no patches on my duds except for rank insignia's, then I did for what was in my holster.

 

[nmcclure]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lazlo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Getting a weapon into theater is pretty easy. It's the getting it back out where the difficulties surface. </div></div>

We had several people do this along with have custom upper sent over. Customs, or lack there of was our only hurdle.

 

[sinister]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

http://www.maaf.info/regs/JPGO1B-4.pdf

 

[PeteCamp]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

I probably should relate my story from how things were after WWII - no I'm not that old! My dad was a B-17 pilot and always enjoyed showing off the Luger he brought back from Italy. He said they only checked to make sure you returned your issued weapon(s). Then our ex-Navy neighbor down the street one day opened his garage to show off his war trophy - a 40mm anti-aircraft canon! It was as long as his garage! To this day I wonder how he got it home and what the sheriff would have said.

 

[LS6TT]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

only thing i ever saw that was personal was Mags and one crazy guy with a tomahawk

 

[lroseen]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

You can get written authorization to bring a side arm into country not sure about long rifles. I beleive they usually have to be standard issue calibers i.e 9mm. I know a couple people who have done this and all left them in country because there is more red tap in bringing them home. I would have to ask one of them but I'm pretty sure they said it takes a battalion commander to sign off on bringing them with. If you can't do this be careful because they will tear out your soul for carying an unauthorized firearm.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

Machine parts are machine parts, period.

 

[M4guru]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

How can a BN CDR tell you you can carry a POW when the GENERAL ORDER states you cannot?

When did an 0-5 start outranking an 0-10?

THERE IS NO PROVISION FOR CARRY OF POWS IN GWOT, PERIOD.

Lot of bad info in this thread. POWs are not legal. Sure, I bet some people do it or have done it. Doesn't make it legal, and there would be hell to pay if the wrong people caught them. Is your career/future worth a $600 pistol?

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

actually you can but the approval process starts with the battalion commander, then goes to base legal, then goes up to quantico. Its so ass bleedingly painful that no one does it.

 

[M4guru]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

Do you know the regulation stating this is allowed? I'd like to read up on it.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

no but i can ask when i get back to work in a few minutes and let you know this evening

 

[Benchshoot]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

I don't think that is the case. You would think that if anyone could carry their own personal weapon it would be a sniper. My son who is in now says he can't, not that he would want to, as he says he is not prepared to pay 7 grand for something near equal to the one he has been issued.

 

[CavalrySoldier3ACR]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

If such a regulation exists, my guess is that you would need to express a very compelling reason why your personal 9MM would be a mission critical item over an issued M9. I have a hard time seeing any general officer authorizing a POW just because it would be cool to bring your own SIG or Glock. I carried a captured pistol because I needed it, but was willing to face the consequences of having it if it saved my life. The only reason I did carry it is because I could not get an M9 issued to me.

 

[marduk185]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

wouldnt surprise me if folks were fedexing themselves short uppers and beta c mags.

 

[rcnpthfndr]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

beta c-mags have a nsn so order it through supply

 

[christian77]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

Their were a lot of failures with the Beta C-mags in Afghanistan early on...I don't know anyone that uses them in either theatre.

10.5" uppers are only authorized for certain units and most dudes would be reduced to E-IOU-1 if they were caught using one.

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

The only thing we ever used battlefield finds, AK's, for was at the range for shit's and giggles, and drop weapons . Kept one in our trucks usually. POW's are a no go although someone always starts up the rumor that you might be able to. Personal Optics are usually ok though, depends on your Company. No one I know has ever carried a POW into theater, I do know a few who got some off the books guns out.

 

[rogue308]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

now i've got a question for all of you. i'm a deployed army sniper that got the ok to use my personal 10.5'' upper over here. should be leaving in about 6 weeks and was wondering if anyone had a problem with customs? my c.o. said if i don't feel comfortable having it on my weapon when i leave i can put it in the arms room connex. this seems like the thing to do but i know customs goes through that connex more than any other. i know i don't want to lose my $2k upper over some customs bullshit. i've heard rumors that there's a pile of civilian uppers in kuwait that didn't make it through. thanks in advance for any help.

damn hillbilly, you joined last month and you've got 161 posts? you really like this site huh?

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

if its in a connex have them slap it on a issued lower and then it will be fine, but i havent heard of them going through the connexs at all

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

I've gotta lot time on my hands. I would suggest if you are going to take it put in the connex on the way back and make damn sure it get's recorded on the log. When we deployed we had about 10 different guns that had been stored in the arms room by some single soldiers. We had to take those with use and had them on the books. No problems with those, and they stayed locked up on the deployment. Customs usually comes out to you to check the connex's, so I wouldn't worry about it if it's on the books. Good luck over there and come back safe.

 

[lordfaramir13]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rogue308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> my c.o. said if i don't feel comfortable having it on my weapon when i leave i can put it in the arms room connex. this seems like the thing to do but i know customs goes through that connex more than any other. </div></div>
You guys get to ship your stuff via Conex too? I was always told AirForce works smarter; not harder. This is the second time Ive heard of this. An Army SP at my church said they have some with the 4th ID that ship Tvs, beds and such. ANYTHING AND EVYERTHING ive ever come into/out of this wasteland was on my back or in my hands. Guess thats the tradeoff for a 6/6 rotation http://www.snipershide.com/forum/images/icons/default/whistle.gif

 

[McCrazy]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

YES- you can bring a POW to a combat zone but as has already been said it very rarely happens. This is more due to the fact that the officers with the authority to approve the action are not willing to do something so far out of the norm and open themselves to scrutiny from other officers.

I PCS'ed to Fort Bragg and was deploying in less than a month. The unit I was attached to had been expanded rapidly personnel-wise just prior to the deployment. As such there were no weapons available to myself or the rest of the members of my Personal Security Detachment. Obviously a big problem and being a firearms enthusiast I started pressing for the option to bring a POW over. (Since my PSD was in charge of protecting a 2-star General we had a bit more chance of getting this done than your average soldier.) The Aide-de-Camp looked into it and found out it is basically a simple memo that needs to get signed off in order to bring a POW. So yes it is possible. In the end we were issued M4s and called it good enough though.

Optics obviously aren't an issue. I brought one of my ACOGs; a couple of my guys brought their EOTechs; and there is a frickin thread on this sight of people using USOs in combat zones. Not an issue.

As for bringing the POW back to the States; if you had a memo legally allowing you to bring it to theater then you are allowed to bring it back to the U.S.

 

[M4guru]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

When I see it in writing, I will believe it.

Who can cite a regulation where there is a provision for POW carry for the military? I can cite a bunch where it isn't allowed.

The BDE JAG living next door says no way, there is no waiver. He deals with this every trip over and back. I believe him. I cannot find an addendum to GO #1 where delegation of authority permitting use of POWs is given at any level. So that makes it a 4-star issue.

So, if there is a DoD or DA policy where this is allowed, I'd love to know so I can exploit it next time I go over.

Uppers and optics fall into a different area. Every dude I deployed with had different weapons and accessories that would not be considered issued to the general military. Customs has never said a word about non-standard uppers, 1911s, Glocks, or any other obscure stuff we had been issued.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Deploying with your own weapon????

hey M4guru, i asked when i went back to work and they said that there is a form but couldnt provide me anything else, so thats what i was basing my thoughts off of, so if there isnt i dont know for sure but if there is i dont know that for sure