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Dialing vs hold over
- Thread starter bearring
- Start date
I just did my first match yesterday! Tons of fun. This one was pretty straightforward on 5 of the 6 stages. Engage 1 target at whatever distance from different positions on those 5 stages. Everyone dialed elevation for those because you're only going after 1 target at 1 distance.
Then there was one stage where you had 135 seconds to engage 10 targets at 10 different distances. 2 shots at each Target before you could go to the next. I dialed for elevation and held for wind for each of those as well. Time flew by between finding the targets, checking what elevation, dialing, getting set, and firing.
I was able to put my first shot on the 4th target when time ran out.
Some guys held over for both wind and elevation, some guys dialed. There only a handful of guys able to get their shots on all targets. Those guys were all excellent in their time management, weapon and optic manipulations, and they were regulars at this at this range and very familiar with what targets were at what distances.
I definitely plan on doing more. It was a great baseline evaluation of all my assorted rifle skills.
Then there was one stage where you had 135 seconds to engage 10 targets at 10 different distances. 2 shots at each Target before you could go to the next. I dialed for elevation and held for wind for each of those as well. Time flew by between finding the targets, checking what elevation, dialing, getting set, and firing.
I was able to put my first shot on the 4th target when time ran out.
Some guys held over for both wind and elevation, some guys dialed. There only a handful of guys able to get their shots on all targets. Those guys were all excellent in their time management, weapon and optic manipulations, and they were regulars at this at this range and very familiar with what targets were at what distances.
I definitely plan on doing more. It was a great baseline evaluation of all my assorted rifle skills.
That's awesome, thanks for sharing your experience. When I watch the NRL videos hold over is mostly what I see, but they are probably pros. That's why I was wondering what the common practice was, and I also understand given the different scenarios.
it really depends on the stage.
usually:
1) single target distance - i would think most people dial for that and don't just leave their turret on 0 and hold over. that's silly IMO.
2) 2 target distances - switching back and forth between near and far. most people dial for the close target and hold over for the far one. depending on the positions and time crunch - most people i know would hold over. some might dial each time however. some might even hold under (dial for far). a lot of people i shoot with don't like to hold under.
3) multiple target distances - near to far or far to near or similar. most people i know will dial for these. if you are only shooting from 1 or 2 positions most people would dial for these because they have plenty of time. if you are doing a lot of position changes - some might hold over to save time.
but as always - each situation is different so you plan accordingly.
usually:
1) single target distance - i would think most people dial for that and don't just leave their turret on 0 and hold over. that's silly IMO.
2) 2 target distances - switching back and forth between near and far. most people dial for the close target and hold over for the far one. depending on the positions and time crunch - most people i know would hold over. some might dial each time however. some might even hold under (dial for far). a lot of people i shoot with don't like to hold under.
3) multiple target distances - near to far or far to near or similar. most people i know will dial for these. if you are only shooting from 1 or 2 positions most people would dial for these because they have plenty of time. if you are doing a lot of position changes - some might hold over to save time.
but as always - each situation is different so you plan accordingly.
I would think dial then, hold over would be difficult considering your changing your zero when dialing, but I get what your saying. Giving the situation, many shooters may do differently. Unless returning to zero been shots.
Dial whenever possible, unless constrained by time or by stage requirements.
I will do a mix of hold over or hold under, depending on target size/distance and wind hold required. Gotta be on point on your mental prep, it's very easy to hold the wrong thing especially when you start to mix in hold unders. Which reticle you run plays a part too. if you've got a christmas tree with precise wind holds that can help, otherwise it might make sense to dial for the far target so you can get precise wind holds then hold under and just estimate wind hold (assuming not enough time to dial).
I've transitioned to holdover.
The one match that I shoot with my PRC, the farthest target (885) is only 5.3 mils, and wind unless it is an evil day, just off edge of plate.
My Grendels with a stupid slow MV of 2500, and 9 mils...I might hold on stages that keep me under 6 mils, then dial for the other stages. Wind can be north of 2 mils on the longer targets.
Choose your poison. Holdover is a good skill to have.
The one match that I shoot with my PRC, the farthest target (885) is only 5.3 mils, and wind unless it is an evil day, just off edge of plate.
My Grendels with a stupid slow MV of 2500, and 9 mils...I might hold on stages that keep me under 6 mils, then dial for the other stages. Wind can be north of 2 mils on the longer targets.
Choose your poison. Holdover is a good skill to have.
single distance then def just dial. multiple distance targets then dial for one and holdover (or under) for the rest. in some cases where targets are generous and close enough in distance, dial to where it will get them all so that you don't need to worry about diff holds while shooting that array. eg if you would have to dial 6moa for target 1, 7moa for target 2 and 8moa for target 3, if they're big enough where being off one moa will still get a hit, just dial 7moa and shoot all three with no holds.
Whatever you do practice the skill.
There is a lot of satisfaction in being able to hit shit with hold over/under.
Im going to try a "Reach for 1000" class at Sig Sauer soon using a rifle that has capped turrets and a 5 mil (10 total) mil dot.
Hoping that by dialing the 3-9 range back to around 4 Ill be able to double the reticle and have a close enough hold to hit plates out to 1000 yards.
Most commentors have told me I should just set my 100 zero on 9x at the top of the stadia and use all holdovers and max magnification but I dont want to do that because at these classes most of the shooting is at 100 and 300 yards. The last 1/4 of the class is at 750 and 1000.
I think using torso plates and 4.5X I should be able to get a hit or two. Not expecting 10/10 but Ill be happy if at that distance using a hold I can get 50-60%.
Rifle is a .308 M40 clone with Leupold repro green 3-9X40 scope.
There is a lot of satisfaction in being able to hit shit with hold over/under.
Im going to try a "Reach for 1000" class at Sig Sauer soon using a rifle that has capped turrets and a 5 mil (10 total) mil dot.
Hoping that by dialing the 3-9 range back to around 4 Ill be able to double the reticle and have a close enough hold to hit plates out to 1000 yards.
Most commentors have told me I should just set my 100 zero on 9x at the top of the stadia and use all holdovers and max magnification but I dont want to do that because at these classes most of the shooting is at 100 and 300 yards. The last 1/4 of the class is at 750 and 1000.
I think using torso plates and 4.5X I should be able to get a hit or two. Not expecting 10/10 but Ill be happy if at that distance using a hold I can get 50-60%.
Rifle is a .308 M40 clone with Leupold repro green 3-9X40 scope.
If I'm switching back and forth between 2-3 targets at varying distances (ie. shoot T1, Shoot T2, Shoot T3, Repeat: Shoot T1, T2, T3, Repeat) I hold. If Im shooting a target and never coming back to it I dial.
Some of this will also depend on target size. If they are tiny targets I'll typically accept I wont get to them all, dial and be more precise for a higher hit/shot count.
I would practice both, as Hooked said there are stages that dont allow you to touch your scope and you are forced to hold.
Some of this will also depend on target size. If they are tiny targets I'll typically accept I wont get to them all, dial and be more precise for a higher hit/shot count.
I would practice both, as Hooked said there are stages that dont allow you to touch your scope and you are forced to hold.
+1
Try and practice with both. There will always be stages with multiple targets or hard par times.
Try and practice with both. There will always be stages with multiple targets or hard par times.
Funny story to make this point.
Shot a stage where I was using hold infers and overs. One target was 8 or 900. I hold what I though was the right hold and send it. Was a lot of mirage and small target without flasher. So a lot of impacts were hard to see. We see splash in front of target and it was more the type you see when you make an impact and it’s the sprawling and such.
Spotter calls impact and I move one.
On the way home it dawned on me I used the wrong hold and that was the actual impact we saw in front. Was a club match and I didn’t win, so no score correction necessary. But I always triple check my holds now.
This exact same thing.
You have to learn how to hold over, you can save a lot of time from holding when you have multiple target or multiple position.
But when you have time, it's always easier to use your center reticle and correcting from that.
This is what it's all about. Fun. Time management, optics adjustments, rifle manipulation and body control all come with experience. You'll get better every match. You'll learn a lot about what will and won't work for you by watching other shooters with more experience. Soon enough the stages you were timing out on just a short time before you'll be breezing through with time to spare. Hope you keep going to matches.
Holdover takes more concentration (e.g. brain power), leaving you less to judge the wind, etc., but it also is quicker if you need to switch to different targets under a time crunch.
When shooting for fun, I practice it a fair amount, if for no other reason than it's fun to change things up.
When shooting for fun, I practice it a fair amount, if for no other reason than it's fun to change things up.
I dial all single targets.
Depending on the stage and whether I want to be messing with knobs, I may just hold over. My time may be better spent on a difficult transition or building a position
If you don’t have complete faith in your optic, just remember the reticle is ALWAYS right even if your erector assembly may be fucky. Reliability is important.
Depending on the stage and whether I want to be messing with knobs, I may just hold over. My time may be better spent on a difficult transition or building a position
If you don’t have complete faith in your optic, just remember the reticle is ALWAYS right even if your erector assembly may be fucky. Reliability is important.
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