Dies for 6.5 Creed, and COAL adjustments.

[demolitionman]

Hide, I've got an RCBS Rock Chucker, and am piecing everything together for reloading mainly 6.5Creed, and some .308 at a later date. I'm just wanting to start out with the simple 2 Die Set, not really interested in bushing dies just yet(I don't think), as I want to get used to the whole process start to finish and see how I do with the bare necessities first.

I'm ready to order my 6.5 Creed dies. I was thinking of sticking with Hornady, as they make the brass and I would assume would make the closest die resemblance to it. As a total beginner, is it wise for me to just go with a FULL LENGTH resizing die, and the bullet seater die rather than dealing with bushings and neck dies?

Will all Lee, Redding and Hornady dies fit into my Rock Chucker without adapters of any sort?

Concerning the Bullet Seating Depth: Should I be looking for a 6.5Creedmoor Bore measuring tool to get the measures of my rifles headspace to then adjust the bullet seating die, so my reloads match the rifle lands properly? If so, WHAT IS THE TOOL I NEED TO DO THIS? (this aspect of reloading currently really confuses me)

Concentricity Gauges: After loading, its my understanding that I should check for "run out" of the bullet in the neck, and the cartridge neck as well. If the runout of the bullet is too far out, then the logical way to fix this would be to re-seat the bullet, and possibly re-size the case. If the case neck runout is bad, Is that when the bushing dies come in handy? All of this is blowing my mind. I've bought 3 reloading books and I feel I'm grasping the simple details, but need some coaching.

Ps- I have no-one I know of that reloads.

 

[7mmsgmag]

I've loaded a lot of Creedmoor, and had some great luck using the L.E. Wilson bushing neck die and in-line seating die. I used a Redding body die every few reloads to bump the shoulders back. Only trouble is, you can't use the Wilson dies with your Rockchucker and you'll need an arbor press of some sort.

I recently switched all of my reloading over to the the Type-S full length two die set with competition seater from Redding. Love them! Producing very low runouts and very consistent seating depths. Since you already have the chucker I would recommend going this route. I know it looks like a big investment up front, but the old saying of buy nice or buy twice can apply! These produce great ammo and don't overwork your brass.

As for measuring seating depth, I use these:

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...avidson-seating-depth-checkers-prod33236.aspx

Just attach it to your calipers, re-zero and go. It takes a bit of use to get the feel for using the same pressure every time, as it can change the measurement a lot.

I use the Hornady concentricity gauge. It has a means of fixing them if they are out beyond what you want them to be. Typically, if you are consistently getting over .003" in runout I would start looking at your processes to find the source of the issue. Good brass and good dies should give you great results.

That Creedmoor brass is fantastic by the way, and what a great round!

SG

 

[JGorski]

If it were me, Id get the Hornady bushing dies, yes they're twice the price but then again you wont be working your brass as much either. Might have to order a couple different bushings to get the right neck tension, the ones you dont have to use lube on or about 25 bucks(Ive got like 4 of them for 308 & 6 Creed, make that 3 for the 6 Creed, total of 5), but for ultimate in accuracy they may help. Midway did give me a credit for some bushings I ordered that didnt work after i told them I went by the directions and they didnt work. Lotta guys here shoot the 6.5 Creed, you're not alone. Concentricity gauge, Id get the Hornady, Ive got one, love it.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/16...hing-full-length-sizer-2-die-set-65-creedmoor

 

[demolitionman]

I've loaded a lot of Creedmoor, and had some great luck using the L.E. Wilson bushing neck die and in-line seating die. I used a Redding body die every few reloads to bump the shoulders back. Only trouble is, you can't use the Wilson dies with your Rockchucker and you'll need an arbor press of some sort.

I recently switched all of my reloading over to the the Type-S full length two die set with competition seater from Redding. Love them! Producing very low runouts and very consistent seating depths. Since you already have the chucker I would recommend going this route. I know it looks like a big investment up front, but the old saying of buy nice or buy twice can apply! These produce great ammo and don't overwork your brass.

As for measuring seating depth, I use these:

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...avidson-seating-depth-checkers-prod33236.aspx

Just attach it to your calipers, re-zero and go. It takes a bit of use to get the feel for using the same pressure every time, as it can change the measurement a lot.

I use the Hornady concentricity gauge. It has a means of fixing them if they are out beyond what you want them to be. Typically, if you are consistently getting over .003" in runout I would start looking at your processes to find the source of the issue. Good brass and good dies should give you great results.

That Creedmoor brass is fantastic by the way, and what a great round!

SG

Thanks for the help 7mmsgmag:
Bummer, I didn't realize the Wilson dies were not useable in a RockChucker. Switching over to Type-S full length two die set from Redding seems like a good idea. This Type-S two die Redding set you speak of does in fact work in my Rock Chucker? Money isn't much of an object, and I do want the best dies I can get, although I want to stick with what will work in my Rockchucker. I've heard great things about Redding dies, I'm just a bit confused what will and won't work with my press.

I have stock piled new hornady Brass, got 5 boxes of new unprimed and 5 boxes of Factory ammo to use up as well for a start. I'll be buying the Hornady Concentricty gauge, and I've been looking at seating depth gauges and the options are a bit confusing to me, I have no idea what seating gauge I want as of yet.

If it were me, Id get the Hornady bushing dies, yes they're twice the price but then again you wont be working your brass as much either. Might have to order a couple different bushings to get the right neck tension, the ones you dont have to use lube on or about 25 bucks(Ive got like 4 of them for 308 & 6 Creed, make that 3 for the 6 Creed, total of 5), but for ultimate in accuracy they may help. Midway did give me a credit for some bushings I ordered that didnt work after i told them I went by the directions and they didnt work. Lotta guys here shoot the 6.5 Creed, you're not alone. Concentricity gauge, Id get the Hornady, Ive got one, love it.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/160...t-65-creedmoor
SG

JGorski, thanks for the information:
You bet, Hornady Concentricity is getting ordered. I went to the shop where my Savage LRP 6.5Creed was special ordered through and they said it will be in my hands in less than 3 weeks! YESSS!!! Anyhow, I'm tooling up for it now. Gorski, I looked up that Hornady Die set your speaking of on Midway: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/160240/hornady-match-grade-new-dimension-bushing-full-length-sizer-2-die-set-65-creedmoor let me get this straight, this die, is like a typical Full length seating die set, except it goes a bit further by using bushings to get the NECK perfect. I really looked for videos of using it, and im embarassed that I can not visualize how the bushing go in or out of the sizer die. Maybe im over anyalzying it. Anyhow, thank you so much.

IS THE PROPER SHELL HOLDER FOR 6.5 CREEDMOOR A #3 RCBS?

 

[427Cobra]

I would recommend buying Hornady dies, there tailor made for there brass

 

[demolitionman]

I would recommend buying Hornady dies, there tailor made for there brass

Note taken Cobra. Thanks. Do you reccomend one Hornady style over another. I'm leaning towards the Hornady Match Grade Neck and Full Length Dies and bushings or the regular Hornady MAtch Grade Full Length 2 die set.

 

[thrusty]

Go with the Hornady match dies. I had a hell of a time finding Hornady bushings, so I called their tech support - they said I could use Redding bushings interchangeably.....So I did. Start with the 0.288" bushing...some said the 0.286" was their choice.
You will appreciate the quality of the match dies from Hornady...this is coming from someone who uses Redding Competition dies for his .308....
I'm also using a Rock Chucker....

As far as bullet seating depth, you need a caliper - I picked this one up for $12 on sale - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/604242/frankford-arsenal-electronic-caliper-6-stainless-steel
Use a bullet comparator to determine Ogive (get the set of common use ones and pick up an additional for the .264 caliber... I use Hornady's http://www.midwayusa.com/product/23...ad-bullet-comparator-basic-set-with-6-inserts
I like the anvil addon as well... http://www.midwayusa.com/product/584824/hornady-lock-n-load-bullet-comparator-anvil-base-kit
.264 comparator http://www.midwayusa.com/product/261048/hornady-lock-n-load-bullet-comparator-insert-264-diameter

Of course you can also use Hornady's LNL COL measuring device... http://www.midwayusa.com/product/570611/hornady-lock-n-load-overall-length-gage-bolt-action
Get the 6.5CM casing for the device http://www.midwayusa.com/product/38...verall-length-gage-modified-case-65-creedmoor

It's starting to add up now $$$$$. hahah

The concentricity gauge is nice, but only needed once you become real particular.

Final advice....Buy some reloading books and read the intro and become familiar with your caliber.

 

[demolitionman]

Go with the Hornady match dies. I had a hell of a time finding Hornady bushings, so I called their tech support - they said I could use Redding bushings interchangeably.....So I did. Start with the 0.288" bushing...some said the 0.286" was their choice.
You will appreciate the quality of the match dies from Hornady...this is coming from someone who uses Redding Competition dies for his .308....
I'm also using a Rock Chucker....

As far as bullet seating depth, you need a caliper - I picked this one up for $12 on sale - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/604242/frankford-arsenal-electronic-caliper-6-stainless-steel
Use a bullet comparator to determine Ogive (get the set of common use ones and pick up an additional for the .264 caliber... I use Hornady's http://www.midwayusa.com/product/23...ad-bullet-comparator-basic-set-with-6-inserts
I like the anvil addon as well... http://www.midwayusa.com/product/584824/hornady-lock-n-load-bullet-comparator-anvil-base-kit
.264 comparator http://www.midwayusa.com/product/261048/hornady-lock-n-load-bullet-comparator-insert-264-diameter

Of course you can also use Hornady's LNL COL measuring device... http://www.midwayusa.com/product/570611/hornady-lock-n-load-overall-length-gage-bolt-action
Get the 6.5CM casing for the device http://www.midwayusa.com/product/38...verall-length-gage-modified-case-65-creedmoor

It's starting to add up now $$$$$. hahah

The concentricity gauge is nice, but only needed once you become real particular.

Final advice....Buy some reloading books and read the intro and become familiar with your caliber.

I've been reading my ass off I own the Modern Reloading Manual by Lee, I own the Speer Reloading Manual 14, and I just bought the Lyman 49th edition tonight! I can't get enough. Although there is no substitute for you guys !

I already have a nice Dial Caliper in the toolbox, and luckily, tonight I saw that Lock'nload bullet comparator kit at my local shop and I wondered what it was exactly so well, I'll go get it tommorow. If I get the comparator do you feel I'll need the Overall gauge modifier case and measuring device as well? Or are these two tools similiar in thtat I can get by with one or the other.

 

[thrusty]

Ok, before you go and max your cards out.... There are multiple ways to determine seating depth. Let me be more specific.

You can just use your calipers to determine COL (Case Overall Length) by measuring the tip of the bullet to the base of the brass...for .308 you're shooing for 2.80" COL.

I you want to check the Ogive (which is something that should be consistently the same on bullets of the same model) you use the comparator. You can look up what Ogive is... Example for my .308 load....I seat mine to 2.84" COL for my particular 175gr SMK bullet, which also happens to be 2.12" to the Ogive.

The COL measuring device is actually used to give yourself an idea where to start at seating depth. Because allows you to measure when the bullet contacts the lands of the rifling....so you can then take, say, 0.010" off of that measurement and start seating your bullets so that there is 0.010" of jump before the Ogive of the bullet makes contact with the rifling.

More input Johnny-5?

 

[thrusty]

Reloading gets real complicated when you want to try to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of a load.

If you are new to it.....Just start by doing what the manual says for your given load.

I don't know the 6.5CM off the top of my head...So I will use the .308 as an example.

SAMMI specs call for:
2.80" COL
2.005" trim-to length for the brass
Use the powder recommended for what bullet you are using and start at the min load and work your way up looking for pressure signs the entire way until you find something accurate for your rifle. Do not exceed max charge.....

Once you master that...you can start tinkering. Otherwise, your wallet will hate. lol

 

[demolitionman]

Ok, before you go and max your cards out.... There are multiple ways to determine seating depth. Let me be more specific.

You can just use your calipers to determine COL (Case Overall Length) by measuring the tip of the bullet to the base of the brass...for .308 you're shooing for 2.80" COL.

I you want to check the Ogive (which is something that should be consistently the same on bullets of the same model) you use the comparator. You can look up what Ogive is... Example for my .308 load....I seat mine to 2.84" COL for my particular 175gr SMK bullet, which also happens to be 2.12" to the Ogive.

The COL measuring device is actually used to give yourself an idea where to start at seating depth. Because allows you to measure when the bullet contacts the lands of the rifling....so you can then take, say, 0.010" off of that measurement and start seating your bullets so that there is 0.010" of jump before the Ogive of the bullet makes contact with the rifling.

More input Johnny-5?

The 6.5's factory COL is 2.825. I obviously will want to experiement with different lengths to get the amount of "jump" into the lands that my particular rifle prefers. The OJive is a the curve of the bullet....ah ha! And this ogive is what ill be seating back .010" or something to that measurement....I take it I should just load to the factory COL and then work the loads till I find what works best eh? I had the conception that there was a tool that tells me the exact proper seating depth. Phew, I'm trying to grasp this headspace thing, and its bothering me. And too late, I already blew my wallet in Berger VLD's, VMAX's, CCI 200 Primers, H4350 and Hornady Brass and reloading books lol

 

[demolitionman]

Reloading gets real complicated when you want to try to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of a load.

If you are new to it.....Just start by doing what the manual says for your given load.

I don't know the 6.5CM off the top of my head...So I will use the .308 as an example.

SAMMI specs call for:
2.80" COL
2.005" trim-to length for the brass
Use the powder recommended for what bullet you are using and start at the min load and work your way up looking for pressure signs the entire way until you find something accurate for your rifle. Do not exceed max charge.....

Once you master that...you can start tinkering. Otherwise, your wallet will hate. lol

Best Advice Yet!

 

[milo 2.0]

Phew, I'm trying to grasp this headspace thing, and its bothering me.
View attachment 2211

Load and shoot your brass, when it's time to size we'll walk you through it. Whether it's neck or fl sizing. I posted some links as to where to buy dies. Pm me your email address and I'll send you a discount code.

 

[demolitionman]

Load and shoot your brass, when it's time to size we'll walk you through it. Whether it's neck or fl sizing. I posted some links as to where to buy dies. Pm me your email address and I'll send you a discount code.

I can infact run Redding dies in my Rock Chucker? If so I'm going for the Redding Die set. Thank you Milo. It is much appreciated. I've been searching for an hour with no luck.

 

[milo 2.0]

Redding works great in a RC, and their dies are top notch.

Type "USS Hampton" with parenthesis to get a 10% discount off type s dies.

 

[demolitionman]

Redding works great in a RC, and their dies are top notch. Type "USS Hampton" with parenthesis to get a 10% discount off type s dies.

Perfect, I just pulled the trigger on this one http://www.gunstop.com/Store/Reloading%20Dies/Redding/RED-80446. It doesn't show out of stock, so I'm assuming its GTG. The gun being loaded for is a bolt gun btw...errrr wait, now I might go with the TYPE S die.

The Type S Die kit (3 dies) fits properly in my Chucker, and as you Hide guys say, buy once, cry once right? I edited my shopping cart, and am prolly gonna go with the Type S Redding Kit now so long as it fits my press.

 

[milo 2.0]

Good set, get a shellholder? #3 RCBS, #1 Redding. They have brass also.

 

[demolitionman]

...... type S fits my chucker?
I have the Shell Holders already, bought them tonight. I'm stocked well with brass right now.

 

[milo 2.0]

All threaded dies fit the press, I think it's 7/8-14 thread. Wilson dies are not threaded.

 

[demolitionman]

All threaded dies fit the press, I think it's 7/8-14 thread. Wilson dies are not threaded.

Aha! Got ya. Your right on the thread pitch/count. I ordered the Redding Full Length 2-Die Set for 82 bucks. Milo, Thank you for your help.

 

[jonesturf]

Was just reading this thread and thought it might help others. I ordered the Hornady Match bushing dies. When I did I ordered the wrong bushing so I ordered the Whidden FL die thinking it was a regular die but it was a bushing too. I then had to get some bushings expressed to me because I had a match that week. Anyway I used the Hornadys for a while with Hornady brass and wasn't getting great runout. Since I hadn't returned it yet I decided to try the Whidden (which is machined to the PTG reamer, which my barrel was chambered with) and boy what a difference. Every round, and I mean EVERY round has .0005"-.0015" runout. This was measured on the inside and outside of the neck and on a seated bullet using the Hornady seating die. This is factory, untouched brass that was either new brass and fireformed or once fired factory 140AMAX ammo. I don't neck turn or do anything like that.

I couldn't believe it. This was on a Rockchucker press. I have loaded for .223 and .308 before too use Redding and RCBS comp dies along with the Hornady Match dies with the 6.5 and I have never had these kind of results. Worth looking into. I have no affiliation with Whidden and almost sent them back. I'm glad I didn't. YMMV