difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
- Thread starter Surgeon_Shooter
- Start date
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
http://www.6mmbr.com/barrelFAQ.html#24638
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which is Better, Button Rifling or Cut Rifling? There is no clearly superior form of rifling. Check the results from major benchrest matches and you will see both cut-rifled Kriegers, and button-rifled Harts, Liljas, and Shilens among the trophy-winners. David Tubb has dominated cross-course and high-power shooting with Schneider pull-buttoned barrels, but Kriegers are favored by many Palma shooters and members of the USA F-class team. Button rifling can produce a very smooth interior finish, and the majority of winning 6PPC barrels are buttoned. On the other hand, many shooters believe cut-rifled barrels last a bit longer. By the nature of the manufacturing process, cut-rifling puts fewer stresses in the steel and twist rate is more likely to be uniform. Additionally, a cut-rifled barrel can be fluted before the bore is rifled. On buttoned barrels, fluting must be done after the bore is rifled and stress-relieved, so there's a chance stresses from profiling/fluting can alter the bore. The only possible issues we've heard with cut-rifled barrels, particularly Kriegers, is that the high, sharp lands can be tough on 6.5mm J4 jacketed bullets, such as the Clinch Rivers and JLKs, when they are driven above 2950fps in an 8-twist barrel</div></div>
http://www.6mmbr.com/barrelFAQ.html#24638
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which is Better, Button Rifling or Cut Rifling? There is no clearly superior form of rifling. Check the results from major benchrest matches and you will see both cut-rifled Kriegers, and button-rifled Harts, Liljas, and Shilens among the trophy-winners. David Tubb has dominated cross-course and high-power shooting with Schneider pull-buttoned barrels, but Kriegers are favored by many Palma shooters and members of the USA F-class team. Button rifling can produce a very smooth interior finish, and the majority of winning 6PPC barrels are buttoned. On the other hand, many shooters believe cut-rifled barrels last a bit longer. By the nature of the manufacturing process, cut-rifling puts fewer stresses in the steel and twist rate is more likely to be uniform. Additionally, a cut-rifled barrel can be fluted before the bore is rifled. On buttoned barrels, fluting must be done after the bore is rifled and stress-relieved, so there's a chance stresses from profiling/fluting can alter the bore. The only possible issues we've heard with cut-rifled barrels, particularly Kriegers, is that the high, sharp lands can be tough on 6.5mm J4 jacketed bullets, such as the Clinch Rivers and JLKs, when they are driven above 2950fps in an 8-twist barrel</div></div>
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Surgeon-Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the difference in a cut rifled barrel and a buttoned rifle blank?? </div></div>
The button process displaces steel with an expandable button that’s pulled through the bore and the cut process removes it by cutting a little each pass.
Go with a cut rifled barrel and you'll be GTG.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Surgeon-Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the difference in a cut rifled barrel and a buttoned rifle blank?? </div></div>
The button process displaces steel with an expandable button that’s pulled through the bore and the cut process removes it by cutting a little each pass.
Go with a cut rifled barrel and you'll be GTG.
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
I have owned both. I have never been able to tell you that one is better than the other.
If you purchase a quality barrel you will get a quality barrel
I have owned both. I have never been able to tell you that one is better than the other.
If you purchase a quality barrel you will get a quality barrel
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Go with a cut rifled barrel and you'll be GTG.
</div></div>
what is wrong with say a broughton 5c button rifled barrel?
i'd say go with a quality barrel manufacture and not worry about if it is button or cut rifled unless you plan on fluting it after the fact. then go with a cut rifled barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Go with a cut rifled barrel and you'll be GTG.
</div></div>
what is wrong with say a broughton 5c button rifled barrel?
i'd say go with a quality barrel manufacture and not worry about if it is button or cut rifled unless you plan on fluting it after the fact. then go with a cut rifled barrel.
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
Ive got both cut and buttoned barrels also, And I cant tell a difference between how they shoot either.
I will say though, From what I can tell on my .243Ai with a Broughton 5C barrel. It seems like its wanting to resist throat erosion a little bit better than a conventional land and groove. My thinking is, Broughton 5C type rifling, if you look at it closely doesnt really have any sharp edges to get worn down. Ive ran some pretty hot loads through it and the throat has only progressed about .010'. And it shoot well too.
I also just recieved a Lawton cut rifled barrel and its shooting extremely well too, So in my opinion, a good brand in either style will shoot well.
Jerid
Ive got both cut and buttoned barrels also, And I cant tell a difference between how they shoot either.
I will say though, From what I can tell on my .243Ai with a Broughton 5C barrel. It seems like its wanting to resist throat erosion a little bit better than a conventional land and groove. My thinking is, Broughton 5C type rifling, if you look at it closely doesnt really have any sharp edges to get worn down. Ive ran some pretty hot loads through it and the throat has only progressed about .010'. And it shoot well too.
I also just recieved a Lawton cut rifled barrel and its shooting extremely well too, So in my opinion, a good brand in either style will shoot well.
Jerid
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
This article should answer all of your questions.
Written by Geoffrey Kolbe of Border barrels.
http://camdenrgc.com/techie/the%20making%20of%20a%20rifled%20barrel.htm
This article should answer all of your questions.
Written by Geoffrey Kolbe of Border barrels.
http://camdenrgc.com/techie/the%20making%20of%20a%20rifled%20barrel.htm
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
Since we are on the subject of barrels here, I'm about to get Bobby to turn me one for my 2008.
I figured on cut rifled, but land count is kinda gray area. Seems the less lands/grooves your have, the less fouling takes place. People exclaim how their 3 grooves clean super easy...
So heres the question: If low groves clean easy/foul alot less, why are people still running 6 and 8 groove set-ups?
Since we are on the subject of barrels here, I'm about to get Bobby to turn me one for my 2008.
I figured on cut rifled, but land count is kinda gray area. Seems the less lands/grooves your have, the less fouling takes place. People exclaim how their 3 grooves clean super easy...
So heres the question: If low groves clean easy/foul alot less, why are people still running 6 and 8 groove set-ups?
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trevor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This article should answer all of your questions.
Written by Geoffrey Kolbe of Border barrels.
http://camdenrgc.com/techie/the%20making%20of%20a%20rifled%20barrel.htm </div></div>
That article is contradicting! Buttoned barrels are easier to make but require more work??? Hart doesn't have different grades of barrels! Both methods; if done properly will give one the same result!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trevor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This article should answer all of your questions.
Written by Geoffrey Kolbe of Border barrels.
http://camdenrgc.com/techie/the%20making%20of%20a%20rifled%20barrel.htm </div></div>
That article is contradicting! Buttoned barrels are easier to make but require more work??? Hart doesn't have different grades of barrels! Both methods; if done properly will give one the same result!
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
Waldo,
So barrel makers dont offer as many groove counts as others. so you end up with 4 or 6 grooves.
Ive got 3, 4, 5 and 6 groove barrels and cant really tell a difference between them.
Jerid
Waldo,
So barrel makers dont offer as many groove counts as others. so you end up with 4 or 6 grooves.
Ive got 3, 4, 5 and 6 groove barrels and cant really tell a difference between them.
Jerid
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
There is always a better mousetrap. I have owned both also. There is a barrel manufacturer really close to my house, Benchmark. They offer both cut and buttoned because that's what the market demands but they recommend buttoned for a couple of reasons. Passing the button through the steel stresses the steel but after they pull the button they stress relieve the barrel in a kiln so their arguement is the steel is already hardened (as opposed to cut rifling which removes steel without stress but stress is induced from the heat of firing rounds). I can say that their 3 groove buttoned barrels are EXTREMELY accurate and straight. Even though there are crooked barrels that shoot good (and set records) Benchmark culls every barrel that is even slightly crooked, their reasoning is the crookedness is an indicator of stress in the steel. They have a whole rack of culled barrels. Their barrel blanks are only $240 but are top quality. They have set many rimfire records and are starting to make a name for themselves in centerfire. I have got their barrels pretty hot at competitions and they stay very consistent. Their customer service is top qaulity. If interested call them up at 360~652~2594
There is always a better mousetrap. I have owned both also. There is a barrel manufacturer really close to my house, Benchmark. They offer both cut and buttoned because that's what the market demands but they recommend buttoned for a couple of reasons. Passing the button through the steel stresses the steel but after they pull the button they stress relieve the barrel in a kiln so their arguement is the steel is already hardened (as opposed to cut rifling which removes steel without stress but stress is induced from the heat of firing rounds). I can say that their 3 groove buttoned barrels are EXTREMELY accurate and straight. Even though there are crooked barrels that shoot good (and set records) Benchmark culls every barrel that is even slightly crooked, their reasoning is the crookedness is an indicator of stress in the steel. They have a whole rack of culled barrels. Their barrel blanks are only $240 but are top quality. They have set many rimfire records and are starting to make a name for themselves in centerfire. I have got their barrels pretty hot at competitions and they stay very consistent. Their customer service is top qaulity. If interested call them up at 360~652~2594
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
I believe AI's in the past have used buttoned and cut barrels; which would lead me to believe both are comparable if machined properly!
I believe AI's in the past have used buttoned and cut barrels; which would lead me to believe both are comparable if machined properly!
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
Ive read also that one difference could be that when flutting a barrel, its better to go with a cut rifled barrel.
The reasoning is that cut-rifling doesnt induce stress, so flutting cant relieve stress that isnt there. Button rifling can induce stress, which if not relieved...is perfectly fine, but when flutting, can relieve stress in somewhat of an uneven tendancy and cause problems....
Ive read also that one difference could be that when flutting a barrel, its better to go with a cut rifled barrel.
The reasoning is that cut-rifling doesnt induce stress, so flutting cant relieve stress that isnt there. Button rifling can induce stress, which if not relieved...is perfectly fine, but when flutting, can relieve stress in somewhat of an uneven tendancy and cause problems....
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
all i can offer is my personal experience
I have and own both cut and button barrels. I currently have a fluted button and a fluted cut barrel.
they ALL shoot lights out. Now a days i just run what ever the smith building the gun recomends. there are a ton of great barrel manufacutres out there producing great blanks.
for what most of us at this site are wanting to do it doesnt matter pick one and then burn that sucker out.
all i can offer is my personal experience
I have and own both cut and button barrels. I currently have a fluted button and a fluted cut barrel.
they ALL shoot lights out. Now a days i just run what ever the smith building the gun recomends. there are a ton of great barrel manufacutres out there producing great blanks.
for what most of us at this site are wanting to do it doesnt matter pick one and then burn that sucker out.
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
Cut Rifled all the way, Look at the last 2 years of the top National and World Benchrest Comps , Bartlein is 70% of the top 20, Kreiger 25% with one or 2 buttoned in there in the middle.
F Class as well which is another High Accuracy Shooting sport
Cut rifled barrels are dominating. Both those sports post equipment lists the information is all there.
Cut Rifled all the way, Look at the last 2 years of the top National and World Benchrest Comps , Bartlein is 70% of the top 20, Kreiger 25% with one or 2 buttoned in there in the middle.
F Class as well which is another High Accuracy Shooting sport
Cut rifled barrels are dominating. Both those sports post equipment lists the information is all there.
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
Cut rifled barrels are great.
But when the top shooters in the world are given barrels and money.......well you get the picture.
They are both great.
SMKs kick but as far as bullets go. But when 90% of the shotters are using them well it keeps the scales tipped in their favor.
Bergers and Hornady Amaxs are just as good!!!!
Cut rifled barrels are great.
But when the top shooters in the world are given barrels and money.......well you get the picture.
They are both great.
SMKs kick but as far as bullets go. But when 90% of the shotters are using them well it keeps the scales tipped in their favor.
Bergers and Hornady Amaxs are just as good!!!!
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
George is right about the #'s...however... If 70% of long range shooters at Camp Perry shoot a 6.5-284...chances are a high percentage of the top 10 will be shooting 6.5-284's. That doesn't necessarily mean that the 6.5-284 is hands down the "best" 1000 yard cartride. I have shot every brand of bbl available I think and it ocmes down to handloads and the shooter IMO. A good straight bbl is a good straight bbl. To Date, the Most accurate rifle I have EVER owned was a Tikka 595 rebarreled to 243 with a $90 Wilson chrome-moly bbl in #6 contour. solid 1/4 minute rifle...consistently
George is right about the #'s...however... If 70% of long range shooters at Camp Perry shoot a 6.5-284...chances are a high percentage of the top 10 will be shooting 6.5-284's. That doesn't necessarily mean that the 6.5-284 is hands down the "best" 1000 yard cartride. I have shot every brand of bbl available I think and it ocmes down to handloads and the shooter IMO. A good straight bbl is a good straight bbl. To Date, the Most accurate rifle I have EVER owned was a Tikka 595 rebarreled to 243 with a $90 Wilson chrome-moly bbl in #6 contour. solid 1/4 minute rifle...consistently
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
I din't see your post .257 or I wouldn't have posted a similar thought...but I agree 100%
I din't see your post .257 or I wouldn't have posted a similar thought...but I agree 100%
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
In Tactical ,IPSC, Highpower Possibly, But the benchrest and F class crowd all buy their own barrels. They are the most nit pickey group of guys you will ever meet they dont change their barrel maker unless they deem there is a good reason to do so. Its not a cult following the proof is in the new world records being set with these barrels records that were 20+ years old.
In Tactical ,IPSC, Highpower Possibly, But the benchrest and F class crowd all buy their own barrels. They are the most nit pickey group of guys you will ever meet they dont change their barrel maker unless they deem there is a good reason to do so. Its not a cult following the proof is in the new world records being set with these barrels records that were 20+ years old.
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
George:
Don't you think chambering and installation of the barrel are more important than whether it is cut or button rifled?
David Tubb used (button rifled) Schneider barrels in highpower, and has done pretty well oover the last several years.
I have two rifles with Schneider barrels (not to be a brown noser, but they were both installed by GAP) and they shoot great for me. I still don't shoot like David Tubb.
James
George:
Don't you think chambering and installation of the barrel are more important than whether it is cut or button rifled?
David Tubb used (button rifled) Schneider barrels in highpower, and has done pretty well oover the last several years.
I have two rifles with Schneider barrels (not to be a brown noser, but they were both installed by GAP) and they shoot great for me. I still don't shoot like David Tubb.
James
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
Ive noticed Brux barrels have set some records and won alot this year too. They are also cut rifled.
Ive got a 7mm 4 groove Im about to have chambered..
I also think some of it could be the fact that a one guy does really well with a certain barrel, then the next thing you know is several others start using that brand. I would dare say a couple years or so the names would be different on that list as everyones always trying to find the next best thing.
Jerid
Ive noticed Brux barrels have set some records and won alot this year too. They are also cut rifled.
Ive got a 7mm 4 groove Im about to have chambered..
I also think some of it could be the fact that a one guy does really well with a certain barrel, then the next thing you know is several others start using that brand. I would dare say a couple years or so the names would be different on that list as everyones always trying to find the next best thing.
Jerid
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
Im not up to date on matches and such, but do any shooters use Rock barrels? any reason they are not favored as much as the other top 2 mentioned by George?
Im not up to date on matches and such, but do any shooters use Rock barrels? any reason they are not favored as much as the other top 2 mentioned by George?
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
Just a thought, Unless your ubber good shot, I don't feel that the make of the bbl is going to be the deciding factor in the acuracy of the rifle. There are just way to many veriables to take into consideration. When I finnaly get around to putting a new tube on my rifle, I'll use whatever the smith recomends. I will bet that no mater what I do, I will never get to the point that I can outshoot the rifle.
Just a thought, Unless your ubber good shot, I don't feel that the make of the bbl is going to be the deciding factor in the acuracy of the rifle. There are just way to many veriables to take into consideration. When I finnaly get around to putting a new tube on my rifle, I'll use whatever the smith recomends. I will bet that no mater what I do, I will never get to the point that I can outshoot the rifle.
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
The benchrest guys swap barrels everytime they get $300 in their pockets, they're all looking for that one barrel that the stars aligned the night it was made. A good barrel is a good barrel buttoned or cut. My buddy has a 243 with a cheap douglas barrel and an untouched rem 700, I have seen 10 shot groups at 504yds under an 1 1/2" with it! I have experience with Benchmark, shillen, and krieger they all shoot good. If your picky about twist rates cut rifling can give a very precise result.
The benchrest guys swap barrels everytime they get $300 in their pockets, they're all looking for that one barrel that the stars aligned the night it was made. A good barrel is a good barrel buttoned or cut. My buddy has a 243 with a cheap douglas barrel and an untouched rem 700, I have seen 10 shot groups at 504yds under an 1 1/2" with it! I have experience with Benchmark, shillen, and krieger they all shoot good. If your picky about twist rates cut rifling can give a very precise result.
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
NBRSA Nationals were last week 13 new National records where set. 3 new world records set.
All with Bartlein Barrels
Examples:
Tony Boyer new Unlimited class record 8 ten shot groups at 100 yards agg. = .189 (previous record was .2195)
Jack Neary LV record of 5 five shot groups at 100 yards = .1482
Tony Boyer won the 3 gun with a grand agg. of .199 this was for the Sporter class, LV class, HV class 100 and 200 yard combined. A total of 150 rounds being fired for these three classes if I have it correct. Yes a grand agg. of .199 for 150 rounds being fired at 100/200 yards.
Top 20 shooters were all using cut rifled barrels.
65% of the top 20 were shooting bartlein
Out of the top 80 shooters (20 from each class Sporter, LV, HV and Unlimited) Bartlein barrels accounted for 60%, Kriegers where 38% and Hart and Shilen had 1% each.
NBRSA Nationals were last week 13 new National records where set. 3 new world records set.
All with Bartlein Barrels
Examples:
Tony Boyer new Unlimited class record 8 ten shot groups at 100 yards agg. = .189 (previous record was .2195)
Jack Neary LV record of 5 five shot groups at 100 yards = .1482
Tony Boyer won the 3 gun with a grand agg. of .199 this was for the Sporter class, LV class, HV class 100 and 200 yard combined. A total of 150 rounds being fired for these three classes if I have it correct. Yes a grand agg. of .199 for 150 rounds being fired at 100/200 yards.
Top 20 shooters were all using cut rifled barrels.
65% of the top 20 were shooting bartlein
Out of the top 80 shooters (20 from each class Sporter, LV, HV and Unlimited) Bartlein barrels accounted for 60%, Kriegers where 38% and Hart and Shilen had 1% each.
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
The F-class nationals start tomorrow, less than 2 hours from my home (in Camp Butner, NC). Unfortunately I won't be there because George is still bulding my new Templar F(tr) rifle with a 29" Bartlein.
The F-class nationals start tomorrow, less than 2 hours from my home (in Camp Butner, NC). Unfortunately I won't be there because George is still bulding my new Templar F(tr) rifle with a 29" Bartlein.
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
yes, Rock barrels are still being used ;quite often
at the NBRSA nationals ? guess not but in regional matches , the guys at Rock creek won with their barrels and i guess still are ? not for sure
there is one trend it seems, CUT RIFLED barrels dominate in shooting sports nowadays.
next to scope selection/preference, you will find that barrel selection/preference is hotly contested among shooters , Hide members bear that out , almost monthly
i am sure George Gardner will agree, its about receiving a consistent product, from batch to batch, that perform the same or as close to the same regardless, allowing him to wring all the performance he can get out of the barrel and NOT WORRY that its the weak link of the build
just my .02
yes, Rock barrels are still being used ;quite often
at the NBRSA nationals ? guess not but in regional matches , the guys at Rock creek won with their barrels and i guess still are ? not for sure
there is one trend it seems, CUT RIFLED barrels dominate in shooting sports nowadays.
next to scope selection/preference, you will find that barrel selection/preference is hotly contested among shooters , Hide members bear that out , almost monthly
i am sure George Gardner will agree, its about receiving a consistent product, from batch to batch, that perform the same or as close to the same regardless, allowing him to wring all the performance he can get out of the barrel and NOT WORRY that its the weak link of the build
just my .02
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
Personaly I disagree with George partly on this, I'm not convinced on the cut is better than buttoned. from experience i realy dont thing it matters wether the barrel is cut or buttoned as long as its a top class barrel.
I think the fact that most top match shooters select a cut barrel has to do with the fact that they subscribe to the "Cut is better" theory
so they end up using cut barrels time and time again and look for the better moustrap among the cut barrels ignoring the buttoned.
I would place money on the fact that if all the barrels of the top 20 George mentioned where exchanged for button barrels the results would turn out the same.
Shooting to this class of excellence requires a lot of dedication and is far more about shooter skill, and a bit of luck on the day than exactly which barrel.
Also the belief in the equipment is a big mental factor in achieveing such scores.
If a shooter believes A, B or C type barrel is better than D, E or F it will give him the nessecary edge.
Due to the fact that top class shooters are using cut barrels, your usualy club match shooter tends to follow suit, which increases the popularity of the particular type of barrel that is among the top 20.
Also geographical location makes a difference to whats bieng used, look what the top shooters in UK, NewZealand, Australia, and Central Europe ( Germany-Holland-France-Belgium etc) are using, you'll see a different mixture of barrels in the top 20 to whats bieng used in the USA.
Take a top class shooter with a top class rifle, put in a top class cut rifle barrel let him shoot it, swap it for a top class buttoned barrel and let him shoot some more. If you dont tell him which is which i expect it will take him some time to figure it out.
<span style="font-style: italic">its about receiving a consistent product, from batch to batch, that perform the same or as close to the same regardless, allowing him to wring all the performance he can get out of the barrel and NOT WORRY that its the weak link of the build</span>
Now that statement is absolutely high on the list in the 10 commandments of the rifle building faith !!
Regards Pete
Personaly I disagree with George partly on this, I'm not convinced on the cut is better than buttoned. from experience i realy dont thing it matters wether the barrel is cut or buttoned as long as its a top class barrel.
I think the fact that most top match shooters select a cut barrel has to do with the fact that they subscribe to the "Cut is better" theory
so they end up using cut barrels time and time again and look for the better moustrap among the cut barrels ignoring the buttoned.
I would place money on the fact that if all the barrels of the top 20 George mentioned where exchanged for button barrels the results would turn out the same.
Shooting to this class of excellence requires a lot of dedication and is far more about shooter skill, and a bit of luck on the day than exactly which barrel.
Also the belief in the equipment is a big mental factor in achieveing such scores.
If a shooter believes A, B or C type barrel is better than D, E or F it will give him the nessecary edge.
Due to the fact that top class shooters are using cut barrels, your usualy club match shooter tends to follow suit, which increases the popularity of the particular type of barrel that is among the top 20.
Also geographical location makes a difference to whats bieng used, look what the top shooters in UK, NewZealand, Australia, and Central Europe ( Germany-Holland-France-Belgium etc) are using, you'll see a different mixture of barrels in the top 20 to whats bieng used in the USA.
Take a top class shooter with a top class rifle, put in a top class cut rifle barrel let him shoot it, swap it for a top class buttoned barrel and let him shoot some more. If you dont tell him which is which i expect it will take him some time to figure it out.
<span style="font-style: italic">its about receiving a consistent product, from batch to batch, that perform the same or as close to the same regardless, allowing him to wring all the performance he can get out of the barrel and NOT WORRY that its the weak link of the build</span>
Now that statement is absolutely high on the list in the 10 commandments of the rifle building faith !!
Regards Pete
G
Guest
Guest
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe AI's in the past have used buttoned and cut barrels; which would lead me to believe both are comparable if machined properly! </div></div>
I would have thought AI's were cut like these:
http://www.ketmer.com/ai/cpm/index.htm
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe AI's in the past have used buttoned and cut barrels; which would lead me to believe both are comparable if machined properly! </div></div>
I would have thought AI's were cut like these:
http://www.ketmer.com/ai/cpm/index.htm
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
Go to the forum in gunsmithing and read it. It's under Bartlein barrels proof is in the results thread.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Go to the forum in gunsmithing and read it. It's under Bartlein barrels proof is in the results thread.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
from a kiss standpoint I'd rather have a cut-rifled as less has to be done to have gtg product and less that has to be done exactly right to get the quality that we demand.
from a kiss standpoint I'd rather have a cut-rifled as less has to be done to have gtg product and less that has to be done exactly right to get the quality that we demand.
Re: difference in cut and buttoned barrel blanks??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete Lincoln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personaly I disagree with George partly on this, I'm not convinced on the cut is better than buttoned. from experience i realy dont thing it matters wether the barrel is cut or buttoned as long as its a top class barrel.
I think the fact that most top match shooters select a cut barrel has to do with the fact that they subscribe to the "Cut is better" theory
so they end up using cut barrels time and time again and look for the better moustrap among the cut barrels ignoring the buttoned.
I would place money on the fact that if all the barrels of the top 20 George mentioned where exchanged for button barrels the results would turn out the same.
Shooting to this class of excellence requires a lot of dedication and is far more about shooter skill, and a bit of luck on the day than exactly which barrel.
Also the belief in the equipment is a big mental factor in achieveing such scores.
If a shooter believes A, B or C type barrel is better than D, E or F it will give him the nessecary edge.
Due to the fact that top class shooters are using cut barrels, your usualy club match shooter tends to follow suit, which increases the popularity of the particular type of barrel that is among the top 20.
Also geographical location makes a difference to whats bieng used, look what the top shooters in UK, NewZealand, Australia, and Central Europe ( Germany-Holland-France-Belgium etc) are using, you'll see a different mixture of barrels in the top 20 to whats bieng used in the USA.
Take a top class shooter with a top class rifle, put in a top class cut rifle barrel let him shoot it, swap it for a top class buttoned barrel and let him shoot some more. If you dont tell him which is which i expect it will take him some time to figure it out.
<span style="font-style: italic">its about receiving a consistent product, from batch to batch, that perform the same or as close to the same regardless, allowing him to wring all the performance he can get out of the barrel and NOT WORRY that its the weak link of the build</span>
Now that statement is absolutely high on the list in the 10 commandments of the rifle building faith !!
Regards Pete
</div></div>
I completely agree. There really is not much of a difference when it comes to the end result. My opinion and my fathers was as well that if the barrel was finish lapped correctly it makes no difference. There is reasons to toss barrels like stress, scaring and bad heats of steel which make all the difference in the world. Just because these people set these records with cut barrels doesnt mean a thing. Most of them went through 5 or 10 barrels till the found the one that shot that great anyways....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete Lincoln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personaly I disagree with George partly on this, I'm not convinced on the cut is better than buttoned. from experience i realy dont thing it matters wether the barrel is cut or buttoned as long as its a top class barrel.
I think the fact that most top match shooters select a cut barrel has to do with the fact that they subscribe to the "Cut is better" theory
so they end up using cut barrels time and time again and look for the better moustrap among the cut barrels ignoring the buttoned.
I would place money on the fact that if all the barrels of the top 20 George mentioned where exchanged for button barrels the results would turn out the same.
Shooting to this class of excellence requires a lot of dedication and is far more about shooter skill, and a bit of luck on the day than exactly which barrel.
Also the belief in the equipment is a big mental factor in achieveing such scores.
If a shooter believes A, B or C type barrel is better than D, E or F it will give him the nessecary edge.
Due to the fact that top class shooters are using cut barrels, your usualy club match shooter tends to follow suit, which increases the popularity of the particular type of barrel that is among the top 20.
Also geographical location makes a difference to whats bieng used, look what the top shooters in UK, NewZealand, Australia, and Central Europe ( Germany-Holland-France-Belgium etc) are using, you'll see a different mixture of barrels in the top 20 to whats bieng used in the USA.
Take a top class shooter with a top class rifle, put in a top class cut rifle barrel let him shoot it, swap it for a top class buttoned barrel and let him shoot some more. If you dont tell him which is which i expect it will take him some time to figure it out.
<span style="font-style: italic">its about receiving a consistent product, from batch to batch, that perform the same or as close to the same regardless, allowing him to wring all the performance he can get out of the barrel and NOT WORRY that its the weak link of the build</span>
Now that statement is absolutely high on the list in the 10 commandments of the rifle building faith !!
Regards Pete
</div></div>
I completely agree. There really is not much of a difference when it comes to the end result. My opinion and my fathers was as well that if the barrel was finish lapped correctly it makes no difference. There is reasons to toss barrels like stress, scaring and bad heats of steel which make all the difference in the world. Just because these people set these records with cut barrels doesnt mean a thing. Most of them went through 5 or 10 barrels till the found the one that shot that great anyways....
Similar threads
