Difference in shooting a Semi-Auto vs. Bolt Gun

[MMH]

What is the proper way to shoot a semi-auto 308? From what I understand, The bipod should be slightly loaded and the grip pulled firmly back to shoulder. Is this correct?

On a light recoiling heavy rifle (11 lb. AR 15) is the above true as well?

 

[Mocadon]

A bolt gun generally has more recoil, but the semi's move in less straight lines. So, I'd say weight the bipod fully and, as always, avoid any muscular tension. If you can weight the bipod by just leaning into the gun as you relax (prone) then you should be very stable.

 

[Sogan]

Bolt guns are easier to shoot than semi autos. Bolt had one recoil. Semis have 3.

 

[nn8734]

What is the proper way to shoot a semi-auto 308?

The same way you shoot a bolt gun. Only difference is that the semi will expose your flaws much more so and make you pay as compared to the bolt gun. But the fundamentals of marksmanship are the same and to be applied correctly for each shot.

As far as “pulling” the stock into your shoulder, you shouldn’t be “pulling” anything as that creates unnecessary tension. If shooting prone, use your core to stabilize the rifle and keep a relatively loose grip on the grip so you don’t impart unintended movements in the system. Load the bipod but not any more than is necessary to establish your position and achieve stability.

 

[long range sponge]

 

[Mocadon]

Those are great! Thanks.

 

[bfoosh006]

These.. 100%... trigger follow through works for me. I will add, make sure the rifle recoils in as straight a line as possible... with little to no angle at the shoulder. If it is "pushing" to either side ( or you are muscling it to remain on target ) it will rear its ugly head down range.

 

[DavidAR10]

I'll say it again: Hornady has already done the FIZAKS on this.

Once the firing pin has caused the primer to ignite in a gasser or bolt...

There is not a da-da-damn thing you can humanly do to affect the POI.

Why? FIZAKS!!! The bullet will be out of the bore before a human can consciously or unconsciously apply force vectors
to fuck the shot up.

And it really doesn't take the integral f(x) by separation of parts to understand what Hornady proved in their tests.

Go ask 'em, I dare you.

TLDR: Gasser or Bolt, if'n you are doing everything right at the point of primer ignition, you can't fuck it up.

Why? You ain't fast enough. Simple as that.

Best to everyone.

 

[Mocadon]

I'll say it again: Hornady has already done the FIZAKS on this.

Once the firing pin has caused the primer to ignite in a gasser or bolt...

There is not a da-da-damn thing you can humanly do to affect the POI.

Why? FIZAKS!!! The bullet will be out of the bore before a human can consciously or unconsciously apply force vectors
to fuck the shot up.

And it really doesn't take the integral f(x) by separation of parts to understand what Hornady proved in their tests.

Go ask 'em, I dare you.

TLDR: Gasser or Bolt, if'n you are doing everything right at the point of primer ignition, you can't fuck it up.

Why? You ain't fast enough. Simple as that.

Best to everyone.

This is all true, but, a bolt gun doesn't slam into the base then ram it into a sudden stop after driving the tip of the bullet into a steel ramp. And, a bolt guns chamber can be made much tighter, etc.

But from the time the cartridge ignites until the bullet is out of the barrel, nothing moves except the vibration of the barrel.

 

[hafejd30]

Chances are if you suck at shooting one,

You’ll suck at shooting the other,

Secrets released!

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Every class I've taken I think one of the biggest issues is guys not getting lined up straight behind their rifle, thus inducing poor recoil management. With a bolt gun, you can cheat a little bit there and still hit your target, it's a lot harder to consistently hit with a semi with poor recoil management.

 

[HMRamateur]

I'll say it again: Hornady has already done the FIZAKS on this.

Once the firing pin has caused the primer to ignite in a gasser or bolt...

There is not a da-da-damn thing you can humanly do to affect the POI.

Why? FIZAKS!!! The bullet will be out of the bore before a human can consciously or unconsciously apply force vectors
to fuck the shot up.

And it really doesn't take the integral f(x) by separation of parts to understand what Hornady proved in their tests.

Go ask 'em, I dare you.

TLDR: Gasser or Bolt, if'n you are doing everything right at the point of primer ignition, you can't fuck it up.

Why? You ain't fast enough. Simple as that.

Best to everyone.

That's like saying the follow through of a golf swing or a slap shot doesn't matter because it all happens after the shot. The build up to the shot matters as much as the follow through, regardless of what is being launched.

Purely anecdotal but I can definitely tell the difference between a good shot or bad if I mess up or change something in the moments leading up to trigger pull. If what you were saying was 100% true we'd all be sharpshooters as long as we could pull the trigger once our sites lined up with the target

 

[whatsupdoc]

I'll say it again: Hornady has already done the FIZAKS on this.

Once the firing pin has caused the primer to ignite in a gasser or bolt...

There is not a da-da-damn thing you can humanly do to affect the POI.

Why? FIZAKS!!! The bullet will be out of the bore before a human can consciously or unconsciously apply force vectors
to fuck the shot up.

And it really doesn't take the integral f(x) by separation of parts to understand what Hornady proved in their tests.

Go ask 'em, I dare you.

TLDR: Gasser or Bolt, if'n you are doing everything right at the point of primer ignition, you can't fuck it up.

Why? You ain't fast enough. Simple as that.

Best to everyone.

Where is that data / report?

 

[db2000]

Can’t wait to see this unfold!
Hornady also has 147 ELDMs that explode in mid air and they deny that happens so….

 

[hafejd30]

Only because I see where it’s going

 

[Feniks Technologies]

I'll say it again: Hornady has already done the FIZAKS on this.

Once the firing pin has caused the primer to ignite in a gasser or bolt...

There is not a da-da-damn thing you can humanly do to affect the POI.

Why? FIZAKS!!! The bullet will be out of the bore before a human can consciously or unconsciously apply force vectors
to fuck the shot up.

And it really doesn't take the integral f(x) by separation of parts to understand what Hornady proved in their tests.

Go ask 'em, I dare you.

TLDR: Gasser or Bolt, if'n you are doing everything right at the point of primer ignition, you can't fuck it up.

Why? You ain't fast enough. Simple as that.

Best to everyone.

It’s not what you do after the firing pin, it’s what you’re doing before and during that beats the bullet out of the barrel.

You can also check out high speed video from Litz/applied ballistics that shows muzzle movement due to recoil before the bullet leaves. As it’s physically impossible for the bullet to beat the rearward (and thus vertical and lateral from that action) as it imparts and equal and opposite force as the ignition and bullet moves.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

Only because I see where it’s going
View attachment 7856406

Ya. It’s gonna be bad.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

But yes, if you were doing it right when the trigger was pulled, you’re fine.

Follow through makes sure you were doing it right. If that makes sense.

It’s like hitting the cue ball with cue stick. If you tried to stop the cue immediately upon impact, you’d fuck it up. So you follow through to make sure you performed the shot properly up until impact.

 

[Snuby642]

You get out of an ar what you put in.

With the quality of parts available at even mid tier prices it's amazing what can be done if taken as seriously as your bolt gun.

People shortcut their ammo, thier expectations and thier driving.

Every defect will show up two fold.

Now, shooting a bolt gun seems so easy.

 

[eastexsteve]

You get out of an ar what you put in.

With the quality of parts available at even mid tier prices it's amazing what can be done if taken as seriously as your bolt gun.

People shortcut their ammo, thier expectations and thier driving.

Every defect will show up two fold.

Now, shooting a bolt gun seems so easy.

This

Especially the ammo. Rather, ammo that shoots well in their barrel. This can be the ammo, or it can be the barrel/chamber. You can't get a chamber as tight in a semi-auto as you can a bolt gun without having problems. But, you can get it tight enough to make a huge difference over your average off-the-rack gun. And, the thing that adds a degree of difficulty and attention for me is the super light weight of some of the AR10 builds.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Looks like there is still hope for me and my 20 pound No-Gas AR-15

 

[Hickle]

What is the proper way to shoot a semi-auto 308? From what I understand, The bipod should be slightly loaded and the grip pulled firmly back to shoulder. Is this correct?

On a light recoiling heavy rifle (11 lb. AR 15) is the above true as well?

There are different .308 semi-auto platforms. Most as you noted are AR10s. They are definitely more difficult to shoot, especially if you are inconsistent on follow through, than a bolt gun. However, I have a FN SCAR 20 in .308, and it is literally the easiest gun in any caliber to shoot accurately I have ever experienced, bolt or gas.

I don't know if it is the interface between machine and human, recoil pattern, or what, but it literally took 2 shots to sight it in at 100, and it is dead on for me. Granted, it is a $4500 platform with flawless rifling that has a cold hammer forged barrel and a Geissele trigger, but still. My SCAR 17 with a 1-8 and a Geissele is very easy to shoot accurately as well.

My AR10 is an Aero Upper and Lower, PRS Magpul stock, Vortex Razor HD 4.5-27, with a Geissele SSA-E, Faxon Match Series Heavy Fluted with 5R rifling, and MI FF rail. I am still getting used to it. My advice is keep at it, see what works, keep notes on your phone, and have fun.

 

[roostercogburn98]

a bolt guns chamber can be made much tighter, etc.

Can I have this one drawn out in crayon for me please?

 

[iktomi]

*

 

[Ledzep]

I'm always shocked when I put a .625-.750" diameter barrel with a gas port drilled into it into a thin aluminum tube upper receiver where the barrel can be biased by the load/force put on the "free float" handguard and I slam rounds into the chamber at 200fps (**Guess alert, I don't know actual bolt velocity, give me a break**) and it doesn't shoot as tight as a bolt gun.

 

[otnot]

You definitely have to be on your toes to shoot an AR10, but when your on top of your game it sure is a hell of a lot of fun. Like anything else, it takes practice to be good at it.

 

[M4orturnate]

Like others said a gasser will exploit your bad habits. Any flaw in npa or follow thru and the groups get ugly. Gas guns have lower velocity so the bullet takes longer to leave the barrel, has a much slower lock time so it takes longer for ignition after the triggers pulled, and has 3 recoil impulses as opposed to one in a bolt gun. Ive been spending a lot of time shooting my 308 ar lately and am struggling to shoot it well. My favorite drill is to fire 3 shots at 600 before i hear the first hit. Really makes me focus on recoil control.

 

[Northman623]

This morning I want to take a moment to thank all the commentors above. No coffee rockets this morning, I pushed it out of arms reach before I started to read this thread. And to the OP, just practice. Lots and lots of practice. Buy a thousand rounds of m80 ball and see how well you can get it to group 100 to 600. Track your progress and after the 1k you will know.

 

[whatsupdoc]

I'm always shocked when I put a .625-.750" diameter barrel with a gas port drilled into it into a thin aluminum tube upper receiver where the barrel can be biased by the load/force put on the "free float" handguard and I slam rounds into the chamber at 200fps (**Guess alert, I don't know actual bolt velocity, give me a break**) and it doesn't shoot as tight as a bolt gun.

AR15 bolt carrier moves way slower than people think maybe 20 FPS.

Look at the energy if BC traveled at 200 FPS