I am looking at buying a GA Precision CRUSADER vs. Tac Ops X-Ray platform and wanted to know if there really is a difference between the two hardware wise. In light of a post that I read from a moderater in regards to the bashing of any companies I wanted to be <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">very clear </span></span>that I am not trying to stir up any shit here and want to get some feed back from people who are familiar with both platforms and the components being used in them. I have had hunting rifles all my life but am just getting into the long distance shooting world so I realize these are both rifles that are above my skill level but I really dont want to under buy like I have done in the past. I appreciate all input and again please dont bash eighter company as I am just looking for a jump start to any facts you may have.
Differences between GAP and Tac Ops ???
- Thread starter RUFFSTOCK
- Start date
Re: Differences between GAP and Tac Ops ???
Crusader is considerably less wait time, and built on a custom action vs. a Remington 700 action, for less money.
No brainer for me... YMMV.
Crusader is considerably less wait time, and built on a custom action vs. a Remington 700 action, for less money.
No brainer for me... YMMV.
Re: Differences between GAP and Tac Ops ???
They are both great!!
Gap.... Builds a fine rifle
Builds a lower priced rifle
Builds with any option you want
Less wait time
3/8 moa guarentee
TacOps..Builds a fine rifle
Mike prefers to build them a certain way(without DBM)
1/4 MOA guarentee with factory ammo!!!!
Long wait time
You wont go wrong with either one...
IMO if I was going to have someone build a 308Win without DBM, I would go with TacOps..
For anything else pick GAP...
They are both great!!
Gap.... Builds a fine rifle
Builds a lower priced rifle
Builds with any option you want
Less wait time
3/8 moa guarentee
TacOps..Builds a fine rifle
Mike prefers to build them a certain way(without DBM)
1/4 MOA guarentee with factory ammo!!!!
Long wait time
You wont go wrong with either one...
IMO if I was going to have someone build a 308Win without DBM, I would go with TacOps..
For anything else pick GAP...
Re: Differences between GAP and Tac Ops ???
I have gone through the same dilemma as you recently. I am not a rich man by any means and I just got the wife to allow (may be not the right words) to spend 3700 on a rifle. I looked across the board for what rifle gets me the most bang for the buck (pardon the pun) and it came down to small things such as the badger magazine and timing. Within a couple hundred dollars all the big name builders are close together...some higher by 500-700 dollars but I could never figure out exactly why the big difference.
I also own a GAP SASS rifle and I know how well that shoots so I decided to give my money to GAP. I would spend your time looking at other builders out there that are very talented and well known – PAI, KMW, Louisiana Precision, GAP, R&D, TAC-Ops and others... All the builders will spend time talking to you to help you get a feel for them and their company. But in the end I had money and a want (time table) and GAP could fill it so I went with them. And, I even got luckier as at the time I was looking GAP had a M40A3 that someone had ordered but couldn't get for what ever reason so I bought it. GAP normally has Crusader's in stock or pretty close to it so if you wait a litle time you can get one pretty quickly.
I have gone through the same dilemma as you recently. I am not a rich man by any means and I just got the wife to allow (may be not the right words) to spend 3700 on a rifle. I looked across the board for what rifle gets me the most bang for the buck (pardon the pun) and it came down to small things such as the badger magazine and timing. Within a couple hundred dollars all the big name builders are close together...some higher by 500-700 dollars but I could never figure out exactly why the big difference.
I also own a GAP SASS rifle and I know how well that shoots so I decided to give my money to GAP. I would spend your time looking at other builders out there that are very talented and well known – PAI, KMW, Louisiana Precision, GAP, R&D, TAC-Ops and others... All the builders will spend time talking to you to help you get a feel for them and their company. But in the end I had money and a want (time table) and GAP could fill it so I went with them. And, I even got luckier as at the time I was looking GAP had a M40A3 that someone had ordered but couldn't get for what ever reason so I bought it. GAP normally has Crusader's in stock or pretty close to it so if you wait a litle time you can get one pretty quickly.
Re: Differences between GAP and Tac Ops ???
Louisiana Precision has about the quickest turnaround time at this time..
Alot of guys are starting to send him work. So not sure how long that is going to last.
William goes by wnroscoe on the hide. He is a standup guy and always takes the time to answer any question for a build you may have. Customer Service is very important in my book!!!
Louisiana Precision has about the quickest turnaround time at this time..
Alot of guys are starting to send him work. So not sure how long that is going to last.
William goes by wnroscoe on the hide. He is a standup guy and always takes the time to answer any question for a build you may have. Customer Service is very important in my book!!!
Re: Differences between GAP and Tac Ops ???
+1000 on Wnroscoe.......
I sent him an action and an A5 stock and two weeks later I was putting rounds down range. Excellent customer service and extremely knowledgeable. Gives excellent advise and will build whatever you like.
+1000 on Wnroscoe.......
I sent him an action and an A5 stock and two weeks later I was putting rounds down range. Excellent customer service and extremely knowledgeable. Gives excellent advise and will build whatever you like.
Re: Differences between GAP and Tac Ops ???
Predator Custom Shop will do excellent and timely work for you. My first build they did for me took less than two weeks from the time they got the stock to my FFL. They have my second build now and I tink it will be very quick as well. I can't say enough about how well the first one shoots, and how satisfied I am with them. They are good people. After talking to Jim R. there they are starting to get more orders as they are becoming a little better known to hide members, so you might want to call them and see how you like them.
Predator Custom Shop will do excellent and timely work for you. My first build they did for me took less than two weeks from the time they got the stock to my FFL. They have my second build now and I tink it will be very quick as well. I can't say enough about how well the first one shoots, and how satisfied I am with them. They are good people. After talking to Jim R. there they are starting to get more orders as they are becoming a little better known to hide members, so you might want to call them and see how you like them.
Re: Differences between GAP and Tac Ops ???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .257</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
1/4 MOA guarentee with factory ammo!!!!
</div></div>
Seriously?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .257</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
1/4 MOA guarentee with factory ammo!!!!
</div></div>
Seriously?
Re: Differences between GAP and Tac Ops ???
Ditto check out Predator Custom shop in Knoxville Tn with one of the packages and you will have money to spare for ammo. Built me and my buddies about 10 rifles in all and they are all tack drivers less than 1/2 moa easy. The last one they built for me was .21 moa
Ditto check out Predator Custom shop in Knoxville Tn with one of the packages and you will have money to spare for ammo. Built me and my buddies about 10 rifles in all and they are all tack drivers less than 1/2 moa easy. The last one they built for me was .21 moa
Re: Differences between GAP and Tac Ops ???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: criver</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .257</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
1/4 MOA guarentee with factory ammo!!!!
</div></div>
Seriously? </div></div>
Theres' a lot more to Tac Ops rifles than the guarantee, but yes - all Tac Ops rifles are guaranteed to shoot .25 MOA or better at 100 yards using Federal Gold Medal Match (168gr. for .308, 190gr. for 300WM, 69gr. for .223) ammunition. The .25 MOA guarantee is valid only with FGMM, as Tac Ops chambers are cut specifically for FGMM.
If a Tac Ops rifle doesn't meet or exceed Tac Ops .25 MOA guarantee it doesn't leave the Tac Ops shop, period.
Mike Rescigno (Tac Ops owner / Master gunsmith) personally test-fires every Tac Ops rifle to be sure that they meet or exceed Tac Ops .25 MOA guarantee before sending the action to Birdsong for coating. If a rifle doesn't meet or exceed Tac Ops .25 MOA baseline Rescigno tears the gun apart, figures-out what the problem is, then reassembles and re-tests the rifle. He does this until the rifle meets or exceeds the .25 MOA guarantee. Once it does the action is sent to Birdsong for coating.
When an action comes back from Birdsong it is mated to it's stock and bedded. Then the rifle is taken to the range again and re-tested to be sure that it still meets the .25 MOA accuracy guarantee. If it does, Mike shoots a "certification" target. The certification target is serial numbered to the respective rifle, references the ammo used, and specifys the distance at which it was shot along with the Extreme Spread 3-shot group size. The math is on the back of the certification target, and the certification target is shipped with the rifle.
If a rifle doesn't meet or exceed the .25 MOA guarantee Mike tears the rifle down and starts over again.
I actually went to a local range known as ASR (Angeles Shooting Ranges) with Mike Rescigno in September to watch him "certify" my X-Ray and a couple of Tangos at 100 yards. Mike usually certifys his guns at 110 yards at the L.A.S.D. S.E.B. range, but since I had asked Mike if I could come along we went to ASR (the Sheriffs don't usually allow civilians on the S.E.B. range). Rescigno has been the L.A.S.D. S.E.B.'s Armorer for the past 14 years.
Anyway, Mike shot the Tangos first, followed by my X-Ray. He shot a .100", a .071" (which is my test target), and something else I can't remember, but the .071 was the best of three groups Mike shot with my rifle. Below is a photo of my X-Ray 51's Certification Target.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Front of my X-Ray 51's Certification Target shot by Mike Rescigno - 100 Yards, ASR:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Back of my X-Ray 51's Certification Target w/math:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Wildcat78</span></span> recently received a Tac Ops Lima in .260. The .260 is not a standard Tac Ops offering, and <span style="font-style: italic">consequently the .260 Rescigno built for <span style="font-weight: bold">Wildcat78</span> was a Tac Ops first</span>. Using HSM ammo Rescigno shot a .077" Certification Target.
When <span style="font-style: italic">Wildcat78</span> took his new Tac Ops .260 Lima to the range with his friend and fellow Hide' member <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">bub308</span></span>, <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Wildcat78</span></span> matched Rescigno's .077" with his own .077" group using handloads. Some of the things <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Wildcat78</span></span> and <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">bub308</span></span> had to say were:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wildcat78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I own a few other custom rifle, I've shot many other custom rifles, but none like this. This rifle is a true masterpiece.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wildcat78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The suppressor is the quietest I've ever heard, even with the 260 round! Man I love my rifle!!</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wildcat78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...<span style="font-style: italic">Bub308</span> shot some great groups with this rifle some were around .25" or better at 100yds. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bub308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive shot this rifle and it removed all doubt I had about tacops rifles. I own a few great custom rifles but this rifle is a step above anything I have handled... </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">.260 Lima Certification Target shot by Mike Rescigno - 110 Yards, L.A.S.D. S.E.B.:</span>
See <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Wildcat78</span></span>'s <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Tac Ops Lima51 (A New Breed)</span></span> for the full thread.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">rem_308</span></span> also recently received a Lima, but he got a Lima 51 (.308). <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">rem_308</span></span>:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rem_.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I can say is WOW :shock:. I first opened the case and was just breath taken at the sight that was beneath. Pictures do not do this rifle justice. When I saw everyone else post that statement I thought well it can't be to much different from how it looks in the photos. Well lets just say its a MILLION times better looking in person. The attention to detail is AMAZING everything is timed and just right.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rem_308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This rifle shoots as advertised, I went shooting with some police friends of mine today and they really loved the feel and how the rifle shot as well. I was able to group some shots in the .100s today.</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Lima 51 Certification Target shot by Mike Rescigno - 110 Yards, L.A.S.D. S.E.B.:</span>
See <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">rem308</span></span>'s <span style="font-style: italic">New Tactical Operations Lima 51</span> for the full thread.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: criver</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .257</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
1/4 MOA guarentee with factory ammo!!!!
</div></div>
Seriously? </div></div>
Theres' a lot more to Tac Ops rifles than the guarantee, but yes - all Tac Ops rifles are guaranteed to shoot .25 MOA or better at 100 yards using Federal Gold Medal Match (168gr. for .308, 190gr. for 300WM, 69gr. for .223) ammunition. The .25 MOA guarantee is valid only with FGMM, as Tac Ops chambers are cut specifically for FGMM.
If a Tac Ops rifle doesn't meet or exceed Tac Ops .25 MOA guarantee it doesn't leave the Tac Ops shop, period.
Mike Rescigno (Tac Ops owner / Master gunsmith) personally test-fires every Tac Ops rifle to be sure that they meet or exceed Tac Ops .25 MOA guarantee before sending the action to Birdsong for coating. If a rifle doesn't meet or exceed Tac Ops .25 MOA baseline Rescigno tears the gun apart, figures-out what the problem is, then reassembles and re-tests the rifle. He does this until the rifle meets or exceeds the .25 MOA guarantee. Once it does the action is sent to Birdsong for coating.
When an action comes back from Birdsong it is mated to it's stock and bedded. Then the rifle is taken to the range again and re-tested to be sure that it still meets the .25 MOA accuracy guarantee. If it does, Mike shoots a "certification" target. The certification target is serial numbered to the respective rifle, references the ammo used, and specifys the distance at which it was shot along with the Extreme Spread 3-shot group size. The math is on the back of the certification target, and the certification target is shipped with the rifle.
If a rifle doesn't meet or exceed the .25 MOA guarantee Mike tears the rifle down and starts over again.
I actually went to a local range known as ASR (Angeles Shooting Ranges) with Mike Rescigno in September to watch him "certify" my X-Ray and a couple of Tangos at 100 yards. Mike usually certifys his guns at 110 yards at the L.A.S.D. S.E.B. range, but since I had asked Mike if I could come along we went to ASR (the Sheriffs don't usually allow civilians on the S.E.B. range). Rescigno has been the L.A.S.D. S.E.B.'s Armorer for the past 14 years.
Anyway, Mike shot the Tangos first, followed by my X-Ray. He shot a .100", a .071" (which is my test target), and something else I can't remember, but the .071 was the best of three groups Mike shot with my rifle. Below is a photo of my X-Ray 51's Certification Target.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Front of my X-Ray 51's Certification Target shot by Mike Rescigno - 100 Yards, ASR:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Back of my X-Ray 51's Certification Target w/math:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Wildcat78</span></span> recently received a Tac Ops Lima in .260. The .260 is not a standard Tac Ops offering, and <span style="font-style: italic">consequently the .260 Rescigno built for <span style="font-weight: bold">Wildcat78</span> was a Tac Ops first</span>. Using HSM ammo Rescigno shot a .077" Certification Target.
When <span style="font-style: italic">Wildcat78</span> took his new Tac Ops .260 Lima to the range with his friend and fellow Hide' member <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">bub308</span></span>, <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Wildcat78</span></span> matched Rescigno's .077" with his own .077" group using handloads. Some of the things <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Wildcat78</span></span> and <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">bub308</span></span> had to say were:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wildcat78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I own a few other custom rifle, I've shot many other custom rifles, but none like this. This rifle is a true masterpiece.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wildcat78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The suppressor is the quietest I've ever heard, even with the 260 round! Man I love my rifle!!</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wildcat78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...<span style="font-style: italic">Bub308</span> shot some great groups with this rifle some were around .25" or better at 100yds. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bub308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive shot this rifle and it removed all doubt I had about tacops rifles. I own a few great custom rifles but this rifle is a step above anything I have handled... </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">.260 Lima Certification Target shot by Mike Rescigno - 110 Yards, L.A.S.D. S.E.B.:</span>
See <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Wildcat78</span></span>'s <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Tac Ops Lima51 (A New Breed)</span></span> for the full thread.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">rem_308</span></span> also recently received a Lima, but he got a Lima 51 (.308). <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">rem_308</span></span>:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rem_.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I can say is WOW :shock:. I first opened the case and was just breath taken at the sight that was beneath. Pictures do not do this rifle justice. When I saw everyone else post that statement I thought well it can't be to much different from how it looks in the photos. Well lets just say its a MILLION times better looking in person. The attention to detail is AMAZING everything is timed and just right.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rem_308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This rifle shoots as advertised, I went shooting with some police friends of mine today and they really loved the feel and how the rifle shot as well. I was able to group some shots in the .100s today.</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Lima 51 Certification Target shot by Mike Rescigno - 110 Yards, L.A.S.D. S.E.B.:</span>
See <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">rem308</span></span>'s <span style="font-style: italic">New Tactical Operations Lima 51</span> for the full thread.
Keith
Re: Differences between GAP and Tac Ops ???
I'm sure there are a bunch of guys with crusaders that have shot 1/4" groups. It would be nice to see a show of hands, of eveyone with a GAP, does your rifle shoot 1/4"? Just because the guarantee is not 1/4" does not mean that most of their rifles don't shot 1/4". I don't think GAP tests everything to see what groups it shoots but if they did test everything, I bet they could have the same 1/4" guarantee.
I'm sure there are a bunch of guys with crusaders that have shot 1/4" groups. It would be nice to see a show of hands, of eveyone with a GAP, does your rifle shoot 1/4"? Just because the guarantee is not 1/4" does not mean that most of their rifles don't shot 1/4". I don't think GAP tests everything to see what groups it shoots but if they did test everything, I bet they could have the same 1/4" guarantee.
Re: Differences between GAP and Tac Ops ???
Suffice it to say both rifles have exceptional build quality. However it is a no brainer in my opinion to choose GAP.
The three key elements to this decision are these (no particular order)
1. I can have the rifle built with the options I choose.
2. Price. I have no problem paying for quality but I can't see paying far more than is necessary.
3. Wait time. In the time you are waiting for a rifle from Tac Ops you could have been shooting your GAP for 18 months or better.
Suffice it to say both rifles have exceptional build quality. However it is a no brainer in my opinion to choose GAP.
The three key elements to this decision are these (no particular order)
1. I can have the rifle built with the options I choose.
2. Price. I have no problem paying for quality but I can't see paying far more than is necessary.
3. Wait time. In the time you are waiting for a rifle from Tac Ops you could have been shooting your GAP for 18 months or better.
Re: Differences between GAP and Tac Ops ???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Are they shot on an indoor or out door range? Either way thats impressive. </div></div>
Outdoor at the LA County Sheriff's department 110 yard SEB range.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Are they shot on an indoor or out door range? Either way thats impressive. </div></div>
Outdoor at the LA County Sheriff's department 110 yard SEB range.
Re: Differences between GAP and Tac Ops ???
Both will shoot great.
I will always use GAP cause of the people that work there. How much they have help me building my rifles. I ordered my custom full size 22LR trainer rifle 3-4 years ago. I messed up on the order and ordered the wrong part for my rifle. I figure that out 3 months in the build i called to see if i could fix it, to late the stock was already there. So i sucked it up and said ill live with it. When i got my rifle and open the box it was how i really wanted it. (I called back to ask how) Ive never met George, but talked to him on the phone alot. He saw my name on the order. Knowing how picky i was and remembering all the other rifles i order he changed it for me before ordering the stock. This shows how sharp the guy is. Which shows in the rifles that are built.
There to many other great thing about GAP to list. but all my rifles that were built by other smiths have gone to gap for a clean up to make them perfect now .
Both will shoot great.
I will always use GAP cause of the people that work there. How much they have help me building my rifles. I ordered my custom full size 22LR trainer rifle 3-4 years ago. I messed up on the order and ordered the wrong part for my rifle. I figure that out 3 months in the build i called to see if i could fix it, to late the stock was already there. So i sucked it up and said ill live with it. When i got my rifle and open the box it was how i really wanted it. (I called back to ask how) Ive never met George, but talked to him on the phone alot. He saw my name on the order. Knowing how picky i was and remembering all the other rifles i order he changed it for me before ordering the stock. This shows how sharp the guy is. Which shows in the rifles that are built.
There to many other great thing about GAP to list. but all my rifles that were built by other smiths have gone to gap for a clean up to make them perfect now .
