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Dillion press

dar1246

dar1246

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 6, 2008
1,094
2
55
Nebraska
www.youtube.com
#1
Well brought the 650 press out again. I purchase the Unitek mic for the powder. I polish everything up. I still can't get a correct powder throw. It has been sitting on the self for a year now. I got tried of looking at it. Thought what the hell, I will give it one more try. It will throw 2 to 5 powders within .002 and the next couple 1 to 2 grains more.

I have been single loading for a all my guns. Would be nice to use this for blanking, but would like the loads to be within reason. I email Dillion. Any suggestions?

If this is as good as it gets anyone want a dillion press.
 
#3
Re: Dillion press

I also have done the polishing uniktek kits micropolished the powder chute and had the same thing 1-2 grains either way I only use mine for pistol being 45 when I have to reload a lot with an accurate load I use an acculab scale measure every charge to .2 grains and have removed the powder station and repaced it with a funnel.

Very frustrating .

If you decide to sell the 650 let me know as I would use another for pistols.

Bill

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well brought the 650 press out again. I purchase the Unitek mic for the powder. I polish everything up. I still can't get a correct powder throw. It has been sitting on the self for a year now. I got tried of looking at it. Thought what the hell, I will give it one more try. It will throw 2 to 5 powders within .002 and the next couple 1 to 2 grains more.

I have been single loading for a all my guns. Would be nice to use this for blanking, but would like the loads to be within reason. I email Dillion. Any suggestions?

If this is as good as it gets anyone want a dillion press. </div></div>
 
#4
Re: Dillion press

Hey, he said he was giving the press away...I'll take it
grin.gif


Most Dillons wont meeter the stick powder very well. I could never get mine to work with Varget worth a damn...some folks seem to polish things up and all is well...not you and not me apparently.

Mine meeters ball type powder very well, such as Ramshot TAC.
 
#5
Re: Dillion press

Getting a 650 to only drop down to single loading kinda defeats the reason for having it. Although 1-2 grains spread seems excessive to me.
Which powder are you talking about?
I'm interested since I wanted to get a Dillon (550 or 650, usual dilemma), but I'd get it for the only reason of reloading pistol rounds FAST.
But if I have to single load powder charges, I can save the money and continue with my single stage ...
 
#6
Re: Dillion press

My experience with the Dillon RL550B and Dillon measure brought a few tips home.

First,the baseplate needs to be set up with minimum wobble. Just enough play to rotate without snagging.

Second, the powder die and activating funnel needs to be set up so there's a small amount of upward motion of the funnel before the measure begins to move.

Third, the powder die height needs to be adjusted so the metering slide is just flush with the end of its slot at full throw.

The powder path needs to be clean, and polishing helps, too. Don't get nutz about this, maybe checking/cleaning twice a year is plenty.

The entire press needs to be electrically grounded to remove the influence of static charge buildup on powder flow.

The press needs to be operated with a definite rhythm and consistent motion and force on the operating lever. if you're 'crunching' grains, the best approach is actually to ignore it and don't let it affect your stroke.

When properly set up and operated, the differences between employing stick and ball powders becomes a lot smaller.

Nearly all of this would apply to any other press or mechanical measure as well.

Greg
 
#8
Re: Dillion press

Oh, OK. 0.2gr could be acceptable for plinking, in a 223 load for example. And, you're using one of the worst metering powders AFAIK.
 
#9
Re: Dillion press

If your load is signficantly sensitive to load variations of less than .5% (i.e .2gr of a 40gr charge), it may not be as ideal as it could be.

Greg
 
#10
Re: Dillion press

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If this is as good as it gets anyone want a dillion press.</div></div>

Let me know if you sell it.
 
#11
Re: Dillion press

When I bought my 650, I was aware of the reputation it had with Varget. Nonetheless, I thought I'd give it a go. I could never get it to do any better than say, +/- .35gr. Most loads would fall in +/- .2 but there would always be one or two oddballs in every batch of 10 that would fuck it up. I just bought a chargemaster and powder funnel die and autodispense my LR rifle rounds by hand. It is still fast and whenever I went to go back into mass production mode with BLC-2 (or any other ball powder) I just put the Dillon unit back on. The XL650 is designed for mass production, and does it well with pistols AND rifles (as long as you use ball powders) but it can be used for precision/LR shooting if you don't mind slowing things down.
 
#12
Re: Dillion press

I remount the press to a RCBS mount plate. Put a powder charge checker on the 3 stage. Retighten all the powder dispenser parts. It is throwing within .3 grs. I can live with that. I reread the setup manual and it does say that stick powder isn't the best for the press. This will do for planking. Thanks
 
#13
Re: Dillion press

Stick powders are generally more problematic than ball powders in any kind of powder measures due to their inability to consistently fill the "corners" of the measuring cavity. PMs that have cylindrical chambers tend to perform better simply because they have fewer "corners" than the rectangular cavity of the Dillon PM.

You could put a Hornady or RCBS case activated linkage and drum type PM on your Dillon press (you wouldn't be the first). These also have the advantage of being able to operate in other stations besides just the 2nd one on a Dillon press, so you could use a couple or more dies before dumping powder. And you can get drum type measures with factory-supported micrometer heads, or push-button replaceable inserts that can be swapped out without having to empty and refill the powder.

Andy
 
#14
Re: Dillion press

Andy summed it up well. IMO the weak link on a 550/650/1050 is the PM. My Dillons work well with powders such as H322 and VV powders up to N135. Anything with larger granules is a crap shoot. The only rifle I load on the 550 is short-line ammo so the PMs are good 'nuff.
 
#17
Re: Dillion press

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L.A. Lawman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just get the adapter from dillon.... </div></div>
OK, that was easy. Didn't know they sold an adapter for "alien" PMs ...
 
#18
Re: Dillion press

I have been very lucky with my 550B and varget. My throws are almost perfect, so close that I pretty much check only about every 10 throws for my 223 loads. I must have just got lucky. I was trickling them to start with, but they were so close I rarely had to even add any powder to the loads.
 
#19
Re: Dillion press

I find that when I test throw ten charges, the total comes to within .2g-.3gr of ten times the ideal charge, and with care i can get the total even closer; but there's also still about the same .2-.3gr variation charge to charge with the stick powders. Where possible, I prefer to use the SC style stick powders (H4350, H4831SC), which do better.

For cases that use under 40gr of powder charges, I prefer to use ball powders. For example, I'm using W748 for .222 and .223, and Ramshot for my current .260 loads, but mainly just to use up my current stock with the .260. I'll be going back to stick powders when it's gone.

Greg

PS, Edited to add:

Yes, I weigh each charge; but I'd also be doing that with other measures as well. It's about being sure, and not about the ability of the measure to deliver a consistent throw each and every time. My luck is such that even if I had the word's most accurate measure (<span style="font-style: italic">when used by other hands</span>), it would still hiccup and burp under my supervision.

What I do is to adjust the measure to deliver a range of charge weights that is either at or slightly more than my ideal chosen charge weight. Then I weigh the charge and pinch out any excess; relegating it to a small bowl from which I can rob small amounts to top up any charges that come up shy.
 
#20
Re: Dillion press

Dillon sells an adapter for other PM's, but it does not activate the measure, you have to operate the PM by hand.

The Hornady or RCBS adapter operates the PM too (only when a case is present.) It just screws into the station where the Dillon PM was, and then you slip the Hornady/RCBS PM into the linkage and you're good to go. Here are the instructions for the Hornady setup:

Hornady PM/linkage instructions

Andy
 
#21
Re: Dillion press

For rifle, you cannot rely on the Dillon measure, especially with cylindrical powders. Yeah, do the polishing and other adjustment stuff; it can't hurt. However, you are just gonna have to weigh each charge individually and trickle in the balance. Shaking the hopper makes for heavier throws. I have seen variance of almost a grain with RL-15. You may get lucky and throw a bunch of consistent loads, but the 10% that are outliers are way out of line. Don't throw rifle powder blindly with rifle loads.
 
#23
Re: Dillion press

It might sound odd, but here it goes. I went to a local adult toy store and purchased a waterproof vibrator. I have it taped to the powder measure. I am able to throw H4831sc +/- about .1 grain with the belted magnum powder measure. Before this, I was lucky to keep it within 1.0 grains!
 
#26
Re: Dillion press

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZ EMS Pilot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It might sound odd, but here it goes. I went to a local adult toy store and purchased a waterproof vibrator. I have it taped to the powder measure. I am able to throw H4831sc +/- about .1 grain with the belted magnum powder measure. Before this, I was lucky to keep it within 1.0 grains! </div></div>

You got the guys here at work laughing, got a headache today but busted a gut reading that.

I can only envision that...

IF your wife sees that she's gonna get a laugh too...
 
#27
Re: Dillion press

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZ EMS Pilot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It might sound odd, but here it goes. I went to a local adult toy store and purchased a waterproof vibrator. I have it taped to the powder measure. I am able to throw H4831sc +/- about .1 grain with the belted magnum powder measure. Before this, I was lucky to keep it within 1.0 grains! </div></div>

I would have liked to be at the store when you told the girl working there"I need a waterproof vibrating dick for my loading press"
laugh.gif
 
#28
Re: Dillion press

Dar,

If you have an automated powder dispenser, this works well.
Leave the powder die in place, trim a funnel to fit in the powder die (Lyman works well)
Start your automated powder measure, cycle the handle on the XL650 down, get your powder of the measure when done,
pour in funnel, restart automated powder measure,
Cycle handle up, and repeat.
I run both my XL 650's like this when loading my precision rounds with stick powder.

Here are some pics.
Also, can we get AZ EMS Pilot to post a picture of his Dillon vibrator conversion?




Funnels.jpg


Case is inserted, and powder die has picked up funnel
Caseinserted.jpg


No Case inserted
NoCase.jpg
 
#29
Re: Dillion press

The handle on the RCBS and Hornady PMs cycles between 7:30 and 1:30, but the Redding handle cycles 6:00 to 12:00. I'm not sure whether the linkage would work with that sweep or not, but you'd have to modify the replacement "handle" that comes with the linkage or fabricate a new one.

Andy
 
#30
Re: Dillion press

try to have the press stopped by either the resizing die, or the seating die bottoming out, before the last several inches of the handle stroke.
 
#31
Re: Dillion press

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZ EMS Pilot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It might sound odd, but here it goes. I went to a local adult toy store and purchased a waterproof vibrator. I have it taped to the powder measure. I am able to throw H4831sc +/- about .1 grain with the belted magnum powder measure. Before this, I was lucky to keep it within 1.0 grains! </div></div>

Did you buy a zipper mask with that?

Actually it sounds like a good idea. Works like a concrete vibrator, settles the particulates so its more consistent.
 
#32
Re: Dillion press

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZ EMS Pilot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It might sound odd, but here it goes. I went to a local adult toy store and purchased a waterproof vibrator. I have it taped to the powder measure. I am able to throw H4831sc +/- about .1 grain with the belted magnum powder measure. Before this, I was lucky to keep it within 1.0 grains! </div></div>

Shaking the hopper is supposed to work wonders. Please post a pic of the dildo strapped to your press. I have to see this.
 
#33
Re: Dillion press

I'll get a pic up.

I had been using a Lyman DPS in conjunction with a funnel on my 550 before I tried the vibrator idea. The auto powder measure/funnel is probably still the most accurate method, but I have had promising results with the new method so far.
 
#34
Re: Dillion press

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZ EMS Pilot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll get a pic up.

I had been using a Lyman DPS in conjunction with a funnel on my 550 before I tried the vibrator idea. The auto powder measure/funnel is probably still the most accurate method, but I have had promising results with the new method so far.
</div></div>



Any static electricity issues?
 
#36
Re: Dillion press

While not unheard of vibrating the powder dispensor. But that is the first time I heard of someone using a dildo vibrator. lol What others have used is small fish tank air pump that you can plug into the wall. It might be ugly, but at least it's not a dildo taped onto your powder dispensor.
laugh.gif
 
#39
Re: Dillion press

The dildo suggestion is the best I've heard in awhile...

Alot of good advice has been given above.
I load with Dillon presses exclusively, 650 for LR rifle/.45 ACP, Super 1050 for .223/.40, 1050 for .38 SuperComp. A couple of tricks in my book (repeated or similar to what Greg and others have said).

With my 650 (for .308 thus far):
My variance is typically .1 grs but I don't measure every round so maybe it's a bit higher. It's definitely not more than .2 gr. though.
I use the Uniqutek accessories (larger powder hopper with baffle, their CNC machined tool head, and securing method for toolhead to press). My 650 is mounted with the Dillon strongmount.
I also use a trick that was posted on the BrianEnos (IPSC) forum for smoothing out the shellplate indexing (I don't think relevant to this issue but if someone is interested, I can post the link).

For each loading session:
I fill the hopper to a consistent volume (pretty full). Then I tap on the top of the hopper about 20x to get the powder (usually Varget) settled. Yea, a dildo might be more effective...
I never use the first powder throw after it's been sitting idle/settling or after my tapping. First throw, I don't even measure as I know it's off due to settling, gravity, whatever. Goes straight back into hopper. In fact, I do that with the first 2-3 throws to get a stabilized throw.
And, during loading, I observe. If something herky jerky happens and I witness any powder splashing out, I pull that round, dump the powder, and get it back into the rotation at an appropriate point.

Is this benchrest accurate? No way. It's the typical time/benefit tradeoff of progressive vs. SS. For an IPSC shooter accustomed to shooting/reloading 50k+ rounds/year, even the extra case prep time for rifle brass has been a difficult adjustment for me.
In fact, since it's all about balancing "how anal?", maybe a vibrating buttplug would work the best...
 
#40
Re: Dillion press

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: k2peaker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The dildo suggestion is the best I've heard in awhile...

Alot of good advice has been given above.
I load with Dillon presses exclusively, 650 for LR rifle/.45 ACP, Super 1050 for .223/.40, 1050 for .38 SuperComp. A couple of tricks in my book (repeated or similar to what Greg and others have said).

With my 650 (for .308 thus far):
My variance is typically .1 grs but I don't measure every round so maybe it's a bit higher. It's definitely not more than .2 gr. though.
I use the Uniqutek accessories (larger powder hopper with baffle, their CNC machined tool head, and securing method for toolhead to press). My 650 is mounted with the Dillon strongmount.
I also use a trick that was posted on the BrianEnos (IPSC) forum for smoothing out the shellplate indexing (I don't think relevant to this issue but if someone is interested, I can post the link).

For each loading session:
I fill the hopper to a consistent volume (pretty full). Then I tap on the top of the hopper about 20x to get the powder (usually Varget) settled. Yea, a dildo might be more effective...
I never use the first powder throw after it's been sitting idle/settling or after my tapping. First throw, I don't even measure as I know it's off due to settling, gravity, whatever. Goes straight back into hopper. In fact, I do that with the first 2-3 throws to get a stabilized throw.
And, during loading, I observe. If something herky jerky happens and I witness any powder splashing out, I pull that round, dump the powder, and get it back into the rotation at an appropriate point.

Is this benchrest accurate? No way. It's the typical time/benefit tradeoff of progressive vs. SS. For an IPSC shooter accustomed to shooting/reloading 50k+ rounds/year, even the extra case prep time for rifle brass has been a difficult adjustment for me.
In fact, since it's all about balancing "how anal?", maybe a vibrating buttplug would work the best... </div></div>

All of the conventional methods discussed above worked well for me until I started loading magnum (300wsm and 338lapua) cartridges with bulky powders, using the "belted magnum" dillon powder measure. I seriously had issues staying within +/- 1.0 grains until I switched to short cut powders and added the orange buzzing cock.
 
#41
Re: Dillion press

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I seriously had issues staying within +/- 1.0 grains until I switched to short cut powders and added the orange buzzing cock.</div></div>

Do you ever get excited while stroking the handle?


Sorry, couldn't resist.
 
#44
Re: Dillion press

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZ EMS Pilot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here it is pervs.

10wrxoh.jpg
</div></div>



Dual use?

Great idea, and conversation starter...
smile.gif



.
 
#46
Re: Dillion press

Oh my GOD that is too funny. I still have a hard time believing it. You should call up Lee at Uniquetek and tell him about this idea.
 
#47
Re: Dillion press

When I read your solution I thought it was pretty smart. I pictured some little "my first vibrator" type thing taped to it. Or even a gun shaped vibrator. I bust up once I saw the photo though. It instantly reminded me of this:
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IfxY8s_Ex7E"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IfxY8s_Ex7E" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>


I'm curious though do you have to turn it all the way up or does keeping it down on low work just as well (serious question)?
 
#48
Re: Dillion press

Well Im not running any adult toys on my 550 measure but just ran some test with it while setting up a new batch of .243 dies.

I have had good luck running varget in the .308 and .35 Whelen since the neck is fairly large. Where I really had problems was when the powder bridges when I tried to use it in a .223 with heavy bullets.

My setup is stock except for polishing the interiors as previously described. I dropped 20 loads of H4350 and had variations from 41.5 to 42.3grs. I as trying for 42.0 and only had one or two at the extreme ends but that could be enough to cost a match. I deliberatly loaded 41.8 to 42.2 and still got groups under 1moa to 400yards so for my purposes thats good enough that vertical stringing is not an issue. Loads all weighed to exactly 42.0 did not really do any better statisticly. I also ran some Ramshot Hunter and this shows a lot of promise. I dropped 20 loads and all of them were 42.4 on the money. This load shot well enough that without a dozen witnesses and a declaration from Lowlight I wont even tell you how big it was (ok 1.22" for ten shots at 300yards in a dead calm). Im still not sure how temperature sensative it will be going to Sacramento in the summer and shooting in at 100degrees but it seems like a very good solution to the Dillon metering issues.
 
#50
Re: Dillion press

It is actually a powder drain. The belted magnum powder measure is based on the shot dispenser from the SL 900 (I believe), and is larger than the standard ones. It is also, in my experience, much less accurate and repeatable, hence the vibrator.
 
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