Rifle Scopes Disadvantage using lower-power scopes in PRS/Comps?

[earthquake]

I have shot PRS and sniper matches for a few years now and have not really found myself using the magnification on my scope above 15x. I also have always wanted to try Nightforce, but do not like their reticles. But, I found a NF here on the boards with an H59 which I had in a Bushy and liked.

I saw the 4-16 ATACR F1 at SHOT and fell in love with the build quality and size, turrets etc. Since I don't use more than 15x anyway, I'm thinking this would be my perfect scope. But, am I limiting myself in a way I haven't thought of yet?

Do any of you all shoot with low/mid range mag optics and like it? Regret it?

I'm eyeing this 4-16x ATACR h59. Should I go for it? Thanks in advance!

 

[steve123]

Long time ago during the learning curve of a young club...A stage happened where we shot at little playing cards, like half size at 100Y, that we were to both identify then engage in order, to make things worse they were all stapled close together so it wasn't easy to see if it was our target or not. Long story short my scope was 26x and the glass good enough to help shoot the right ones on my own target. I did well on that one. I felt sorry for those guys with less max magnification because the stage was a mess for them, lol.

There were also stages that were closer than 25Y. That's when I started to set my sights on S&B which were about the only scopes that focused closer back then.

Oh and there was also a night match, I had illume so it was a non issue. Guys without illume suffered greatly.

See my point. Same old story, better to have and not need, than need and not have...

 

[lte82]

I've only shot 3 club matches, and only out to 1100 yards, but I used 8-14x every stage with the majority between 10-12x. Also, the H59 reticle seems the most useful to me at a max of around 15x, beyond that you start to put the target way at the edge of the FOV if you are trying to hold for targets at 1000+. It's also harder to find targets and watch impacts / misses the higher power you go because the FOV is so reduced, and it seems like 10-12x is sort of the sweet spot for me for that purpose. I'm sure better shooters can utilize higher power, though. Mirage is easier to read at higher magnification, but I don't know how much that matters to you.

 

[phlegm]

Practical marksmanship usually doesn't require lots of magnification. Everyone still likes the idea of more, though.

It makes sense that you're only sacrificing the possibility of ease on a rare occasion by going with the lower powered optic.

 

[earthquake]

steve123 I had thought about the cold-bore playing card stage, but in 12 matches thus far, I've only seen it twice. Thanks though!

 

[CBDR]

Very good question. This is why I enjoy this site. Questions get asked and folks give examples based on their experience. I find that extra magnification useful.
Looked at an Vortex AMG yesterday, very tempting.

 

[steve123]

steve123 I had thought about the cold-bore playing card stage, but in 12 matches thus far, I've only seen it twice. Thanks though!

No prob. I think the clubs have realized that a stage like mentioned is unfair to those with lesser scopes or low magnification. But you never know what the next stage will be like. Well I do find it easier having more mag and thinner reticles for shooting groups which have been stages too in the past.

I still like the H59 but those Athlon reticles have grown on me for holdovers. I can't decide which I like better the APRS in the Cronus BTR(love the thin lines BTW) or the APLR3 which has .2's round about. Both reticles have every line numbered for the holdovers which I prefer because sometimes I pick the wrong line on the H reticles.

I had a NF NXS F1 3.5-15 for a year or so with H58 when it first came out. Personally I just needed more mag and it had 50Y min parallax which I started steering away from.

 

[M2CattleCo]

I don't shoot PRS, but I rarely use the 16X on my 4-16 ATACR and even more seldom do I use the 25X on my 5-25 ATACR.

I hang around in the 6-15 range mostly. The 4-16 is a lot better on 6, the 5-25 is a lot better on 15. If I had to sell one, it'd be the 4-16.

 

[ICU22250]

I've had the 5-25 and still have the 4-16 F1, I prefer the 4-16... I don't shoot comps, but my 4-16 does very well for me, it's one of my favorites...

 

[hypno02]

After trying a 15x and an 18x in my earlier years of PRS type comps I'd NEVER go back. I honestly believe you NEED 24x or better anymore. Whether it be a KYL stage at 400yds shooting at a 2" target or a 1000yd+ stage where you need to spot your impact within .1 mil you need more than 15x. I'm willing to bet there are 0 PRS shooters within the top 50 that run an optic with a top end south of 20x.

 

[hypno02]

Have it and not need it > Need it and not have it.

 

[JC Steel]

I run about every stage between 12-15 power.

 

[demolitionman]

With my fixed 12's i've had problems seeing target's that have been shot into a lead color from hundreds of bullet impacts if the back ground is forested.

I shot a match once that had partially hidden steel heads, and i wished like crazy I haf the ability to zoom out to 4 or 6 power to read the landscape better.

 

[BallisticPrimate]

after having shot comps with the atacr 4-16 and the March 5-40 it's obvious that 16x is more than enough to win matches. That said the March is awesome for load development and near doubles as a spotter

 

[morganlamprecht]

like a couple guys have mentioned, its good to have it, small paper stuff and shot up steel on dirt berms

good luck ID'n a 2.5" diamond on a black strap on a dirt berm @ 500 yds

at the Outback last year the first target on my stage was a square plate @ 400 yds bolted to a black strap almost the same width of the target...probably 30-40% of the field sent their first rounds high thru the strap because they couldnt see the steel well...could see it easily on the 20x spotter

 

[Sig Marine]

95% of my shooting is between 10x-15x. The remaining 5% gets eaten up using lower magnification when needing a much larger FOV or higher magnification when needing to see small targets.

 

[Birddog6424]

12x to 15x is my norm. But I admit I crank it up to 20x on occasion. Long targets and stages without transitions. And small targets.

I won the local PRS club match this past Sunday, I cleaned the KYL for for 10 points at 415 yards. I was on 20x for that. It came in handy on that 2" sub .5 MoA dangler on the end. And I spun over to 20x on the 1190 yard target.

 

[Covertnoob5]

So would you guys say 20x is "enough" on the top end or 25x, 27x, 35x is needed/preferred?


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[earthquake]

Lots of good advice here, Gents. Thanks! I'll keep my 29x on the match gun. Maybe I'll pick up that 4-16x ATACR for my hunting rifle. Something about it just speaks to me.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

my go to mag is 18-20x for prs/comps and theres been many of times on little stuff that I run 27x on my razors. getting glass that can handle full mag and not be a muddy turd is a must.

that said, id love a 4-16 atacr for my night rifle...

 

[lte82]

I run about every stage between 12-15 power.

Good info from a guy that's at the top of the national standings.

 

[flatland1]

My CF comp rifles wear Kahles 624i AMR scopes, with Athlon Cronus 4.5-29x56 scopes on a couple of 40X/XB 22LR trainer/ps rifles. While there have been times when I had to dial down for movers & etc, my scopes are set at 24-25x more than 90% of the time. During a recent 22LR PR match, I had to go down to 16x in order to see enough of the reticle to hold over 8 mils for a 215yd target. We were shooting targets at 50, 100, & 215yds with tight time limits, so it made a lot more sense to use the reticle to hold over rather than try to dial elevation. But boy, did I enjoy having 29x available for seeing some small targets that required precise shot placement (paper target with multiple no-shoot/hostage targets at 50yds). I'm another believer in the "better to have it & not need it than need it & not have it" group.

 

[steve123]

Good info from a guy that's at the top of the national standings.

Yes it is, and if I were to guess most of us do to. 12x-15x is the bread and butter zone. There's reasons why. You pretty much need the FOV to locate the next target quickly and often there's not enough time to be dialing mag back and forth either, plus most of the steel is around <2> moa, so higher mag loses it's advantage the more dynamic the stage is. For positional I can't stand the scope on high mag because rifle movement is exaggerated so much it's unsettling.

No I'm not pretending to be close to the same league as Jake is in.

 

[Birddog6424]

Low power is a must for target transitions. You waste too much time searching for targets on higher power settings.

The Mile High match in Colorado in August had tons of banged up washed out grey steel sitting in sagebrush. It was damn hard to transition through the targets on the stage, the targets were hard to see even with magnification. I ran damn near that whole match on 12x. I think I only zoomed out for the 1200 and 1400 yard bombs.

I think 20x max is all you really need. I used to run a 5-25, but like the 4-20 better.

 

[Wyzrd]

Lots of good advice here, Gents. Thanks! I'll keep my 29x on the match gun. Maybe I'll pick up that 4-16x ATACR for my hunting rifle. Something about it just speaks to me.

The 4-16 F1 is a great scope! I love mine and use it mostly from 6-13x, occasionally will use 16x if I'm trying to get tiny groups at 100 yds. However, just like every body else has already mentioned, if I was doing some kind of competitive shooting, I would definitely want to have the higher magnification scopes, even if I didn't use it a whole bunch. (My 4-16 is on my 6.5G hunting rifle and is a perfect fit for that application IMO. And I run my 4.5-29 BTR on my longer range bolt rifles.)

 

[JC Steel]

Yes it is, and if I were to guess most of us do to. 12x-15x is the bread and butter zone. There's reasons why. You pretty much need the FOV to locate the next target quickly and often there's not enough time to be dialing mag back and forth either, plus most of the steel is around <2> moa, so higher mag loses it's advantage the more dynamic the stage is. For positional I can't stand the scope on high mag because rifle movement is exaggerated so much it's unsettling.

No I'm not pretending to be close to the same league as Jake is in.

Exactly right. You need to find your target quickly. Wide fov is important for this. If there are five targets on a particular stage, and I find them roughly 3 seconds faster than the next guy, I literally have 15 seconds more on a stage to pull perfect shots. The guy that's looking for his targets is now in a mild time management panic, and he will inevitably pull a couple shots poorly because of the stress that has caused.
So take two shots per stages, and now make that 20 stages over the course of the match. All of a sudden I have beat him by 40 shots!! It really adds up quickly. And this is all else being even......now I say this but there are shooters out there that literally shoot every stage at full 25 power. And they do well. So different strokes for different folks. I just like being able to find my next steel victim quickly

 

[Covertnoob5]

I run about every stage between 12-15 power.

So what about stages that are 1k+ or stages that are 100y with small targets like the atlas playing card shot? Are you still not going above 15x? Honest question here. Thanks


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[Rob01]

I like having the option of powering up so that is why I like having a 25-27x top end but as mentioned most of my shooting is done about 12-15x. Have shot out to 1250 in matches down on around 14x on my 3-18x scope and had to dial down to about 10x before due to mirage on some targets from 1000-1150. But it's nice when I am doing small paper to be able to dial up if needed.

I have run a 3.5-10x and 3.5-15x and some 3.2-17s and similar scopes before in matches and they worked but if given the option I will pick a higher powered optic and just dial down.

 

[jbailey]

I would also chime in that 15x tends to be better optically on a 5-25x than it is on a 3-15x, all else equal. Probably because the 5-25x likely has a bigger objective lens and is therefore gathering more light.

I have not used a NF 4-16 ATACR vs the NF 5-25 ATACR, but note the 4-16 is carrying a 50mm objective vs the 56mm on the big one. For me, I will always put money and weight/size on the bigger objective lens. Maybe in perfect lightening you will not know the difference, but take a gloomy, rainy/snowy day and/or dawn/dusk and that 56mm is operational while the 50mm is a lens of blackness.