Gunsmithing Disadvantages to not torquing a shouldered barrel?

[Throwinsparks]

I've searched but was unable to find any real information in regards to the pros and cons of not torquing a shouldered barrel onto the action. Little background, I have a TL3 and a shouldered barrel but was looking to make this a switch barrel setup without the use of a Barloc or WTO lug which I already have on my Curtis Axiom.

What would be the downside of just installing a shouldered barrel hand tight vs torquing to the action?

Would it really affect the headspace?

Would there be POI change when reinstalling?

I've seen a couple videos of guys installing barrels hand tight and getting pretty good RTZ.

Thoughts from ones with experience?

 

[300 grainpill]

I’m no pro but I would think it would loosen over time even with thread lock... even if it wasn’t enough to notice handling the rifle headspace would change

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Compromise, use a strap wrench. That's what I use on my Savage Barrel nuts.

Greg

 

[smoooth1]

There was a great post on here a year or 2 ago. He had a couple flats milled on the barrels and would torque to 35-40 in/lbs (IIRC) and would swap barrels on the fly with the action still in the stock. He had very good results as I remember and had posted a couple videos as well.
Perhaps that fellow will see this thread and respond?

 

[Supersubes]

Some short range BR guys get away with hand tight barrels. Seems like a bad plan for anything else. Some here just have wrench flats cut in the barrel so they can put a bit of torque on it while it’s pinched between their knees.

 

[Lynn Jr]

If your competing the barrel will come loose costing you a shot. If your not competing and it comes loose you just tighten it back down and keep shooting.
I had a barrel come loose at a national event because I forgot to tighten it down. 600 yard groups were running 2-3/4 inches and when it came loose it went to 15 inches.
What happens when the barrel comes loose is the scope is sitting on the action and the weight of the muzzle pulls the barrel down.
If the barrel was in a barrel block and the scope was mounted to the top of the block with a cantilever beam it would keep on shooting just fine.

 

[Throwinsparks]

Thanks Lynn. Not competing at this point but dont want to have the barrel loose either.
So I sould be fine just hand tight as long my groups stay tight and consistent. if they open up, check and retighten.
If it happens too often then I will probably be looking for a barrel vise of some sort and possibly an action wrench.

Not stuck on the idea of not torquing the barrel just was trying to save on the vice and wrench.

Any recommendations on inexpensive barrel vise that can be used in the field and also home?

 

[smoooth1]

Thanks Lynn. Not competing at this point but dont want to have the barrel loose either.
So I sould be fine just hand tight as long my groups stay tight and consistent. if they open up, check and retighten.
If it happens too often then I will probably be looking for a barrel vise of some sort and possibly an action wrench.

Not stuck on the idea of not torquing the barrel just was trying to save on the vice and wrench.

Any recommendations on inexpensive barrel vise that can be used in the field and also home?

You can build a DIY barrel block from wood or aluminum depending on your tool selection and skills. If you don't have much in the way of tools or skills, you would be money ahead to just buy a barrel vise and action wrench. You have a couple grand invested in just actions alone, another $100 for a wrench and vise is a worthy investment.

Also, as your barrel loosens, the headspace changes and that could cause a whole bunch of other problems to arise, especially if you reload.

 

[Ledzep]

Balancing act of frictional forces (coefficient of friction * normal force; normal force increases with torque, so friction increases with torque) and the tendency of vibrating and heating/cooling (growing/shrinking) screws to come loose over time. 20-30 ft-lb is probably plenty in my experience.

There is also thread preload and member stiffness and I've heard arguments but never done the math on an idea that your thread preload should exceed the forces from firing that push the barrel forward to keep the barrel and receiver shoulders from separating (a VERY small amount) during firing. If it pencils out, it'd most likely be a fatigue issue that gives a service life probably well in excess of what guys shoot before they throw the barrel away anyway.

I've seen it stated on this site a few times, and did the math once that agreed, that the barrel threads can be torqued several hundred (if not over 1000) pound-feet without worry of threads stripping or twisting the threaded portion of the barrel. I've seen pro builders do anywhere from 45 to 100 ft-lb, and Tikka apparently does like 200-300 (if you've ever tried to bust a factory barrel loose....).

 

[Robert Gradous]

Thanks Lynn. Not competing at this point but dont want to have the barrel loose either.
So I sould be fine just hand tight as long my groups stay tight and consistent. if they open up, check and retighten.
If it happens too often then I will probably be looking for a barrel vise of some sort and possibly an action wrench.

Not stuck on the idea of not torquing the barrel just was trying to save on the vice and wrench.

Any recommendations on inexpensive barrel vise that can be used in the field and also home?

Viper, barrel vice

 

[XLR308]

I second the Viper Vise, they are relatively inexpensive and very well made and a must have in my opinion.
I torque the barrels on my Kelbly Atlas actions to 98ft lbs in the Viper with nothing on the barrel or vise and no slippage or marks on the barrels.

 

[Throwinsparks]

Thanks for all of your thoughts. I'll look at the Viper Vise.

Does anyone know if the PVA action wrench for the TL3 requires the extractor to be removed unlike the Bighorn that doesnt.

Bighorn has been sold out for some time but PVA has them in stock.

 

[Lynn Jr]

I happen to like Bob Pastor alot and use his viper vise myself you can get one from Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool for around $60 and for the wrench checkout eBay.
A harbor freight 1/2 inch torque wrench and your all set.

 

[duramaxed]

Thanks for all of your thoughts. I'll look at the Viper Vise.

Does anyone know if the PVA action wrench for the TL3 requires the extractor to be removed unlike the Bighorn that doesnt.

Bighorn has been sold out for some time but PVA has them in stock.

The PVA is essentially the same wrench without the coating. It’s slotted like Bighorns wrench.

 

[Sheldon N]

Any recommendations on inexpensive barrel vise that can be used in the field and also home?

Ross Vise is what you are looking for.

For those interested in field swapping barrels...The Ross Vise

*** Special thanks to hide member reubenski who's setup with barrel flats inspired this rabbit hole. *** The last couple of years I've moved to a modular rifle system that uses Bighorn actions and a pile of interchangeable barrels in various chamberings and states of wear. The weak link in all...

www.snipershide.com

Pretty easy to get 25-30ft/lbs just holding the gun between your knees, or if you have an MPA chassis you can use a bar for leverage in the butt stock like he does in the video (I use a piece of 1/2" thick oak).

Barrel is not going to come loose, return to zero is excellent, and headspace is consistent. Plus no need for an action wrench or to take the gun out of the stock.

 

[Lynn Jr]

In the video it looks like a action wrench with a very long handle is used?

 

[Sheldon N]

In the video it looks like a action wrench with a very long handle is used?

No, he's putting a piece of aluminum bar stock into a gap on the MPA chassis buttstock. I use a piece of oak board since it doesn't mar the stock finish.

If you don't have an MPA chassis you can just hold the gun between your legs while tightening/loosening, but you get a bit less leverage.

 

[Wannashootit]

Similar to the Viper, I have one of these from Grizzly. I don't use for factory take -offs because it's usually not stout enough, but great for lighter applications that don't need a custom bushing in a heavy-duty vise.

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