So, i just did a tracking test on my new Cronus BTR 4,5-29x56...NOT happy. I set up a target at 100m - and looked where the 10mil suptension where and marked it EXACTLY, and double and tripel cheked. Then i dialed 10mils, and would expect that the center crosshair would land on that mark. It did not. I had to click about 4 clicks back to make it add up. I also tried the same thing in a optic coliminator. Either, the suptensions ( or what its called, sry for my english ) is not accurate, or the scope track like shit. It does seem to return to zero thou, however the only thing i am gonna return is this scope. My first, and probaly last Athlon...
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Rifle Scopes Dissapointed in Athlon Cronus BTR tracking.
- Thread starter Peter83
- Start date
Contact Athlon - they will for sure take care of you and quickly. Give the cronus a fair shot. They are good scopes.
Well, not exactly but down to + /- 3m. However, that should not be a problem at all since i made a mark EXACTLY where the 10mil subtension where ( it was corse grid paper ). Before i made any clicking at all, i checked and triple cheked that the 10mil subtension where dead on at the mark. If the clicks where correct, dialing 10mils would put the center crosshair on that mark, otherwise the subtensions are way off and useless. Since i never had a scope with in accurate subtensions, i am convinced that the scope is tracking like crap. It returns to zero thou, and that way i know that i havent moved anything during the clicks to put it off. I tried this like 10 times, same result everytime, and did the same thing in a coliminator.
10.4/10= 4% off
If youre only within +/- 3 meters then that could be 3 of the 4% its off.
Id also be suspicious of your holding fixture moving as well.
And youre saying you looked through the scope, noted the location on the reticle, walked down there to the target, made the mark, walked back and then your reticle didnt match where you marked the target? I think shooting a group, adjusting 10 mils and then shoot another and judge by where youre group centers are, its more reliable than trying to transpose your reticle to a target 100 meters away from you.
Not saying youre wrong, just saying there a lot of issues in what your methodology could or could not be from the info provided to us.
And you have a collimator?
If youre only within +/- 3 meters then that could be 3 of the 4% its off.
Id also be suspicious of your holding fixture moving as well.
And youre saying you looked through the scope, noted the location on the reticle, walked down there to the target, made the mark, walked back and then your reticle didnt match where you marked the target? I think shooting a group, adjusting 10 mils and then shoot another and judge by where youre group centers are, its more reliable than trying to transpose your reticle to a target 100 meters away from you.
Not saying youre wrong, just saying there a lot of issues in what your methodology could or could not be from the info provided to us.
And you have a collimator?
+1
I bet his setup easily fails the 10% gauge repeatability and reproducibility standard that is required to pass PPAP standards in any decent production environment.
This whole bullshit is why I no longer try to bring my professional knowledge in areas like heat treatment, GD&T, machining, and metallurgy to gun threads, even here.
The exact distance isent really what matters in this case, also i think you got it wrong how i did it. Here is how i did it:
1: I set up a gridpaper at 100 m ( using a range finder ).
2: I click the 10 mil subtension mark ( the hold over mark thing ) so it matches an exact spot on the grid paper.
3: I walk down to the paper, and put a little red round sticker where the 10 mil holdover mark was at for better visual.
4: I walk back - check and triple check that the 10 mil holdover mark is now exactly at the red sticker.
5: i click 10 mils, that center crosshair should now be at the mark where the 10 mil holdover was at, but it is not.
6: I click 10 mils back, and the 10 mil holdover mark is again at the spot i marked.
I did that 10 times or so.
No, i dont have a proffesional coliminator like the factories have, but i have one of those you put at the end of the barrel. If clicked the 10 mil holdover mark over a spot in the grid, and tried to dial 10 mil. Same story.
That means, that either the holdover marks are not true, or it dosent track, and i am very sure its the tracking.
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Why would it return to zero then if it was not repeatable? And why would the result be the exact same all the time? If you are calling a post bullsshit, please tell why instead of just assuming some setup is not repeatable. You cant really argue with dialing 10 mils not landing center crosshair where the 10 mil holdover was.
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Return to zero can be perfect and tracking can be way off. I have seen this in multiple scopes. The OP is saying that it is repeatable, just repeatable in error.
The distance to the target is not important. The OP could perform this test at 50 yards, 100 meters, or 200,000 inches. The distance doesn't even need to be measured to perform this test. He is not actually testing the accuracy of the click values, but instead is testing if the click values are equal to the retical subtension. The OP is right in assuming the reticle is most likely correct and the turrets are in error. Either way it is a no go if the reticle and turrets don't match.
i think he's just weary of how steady your "rest" is. how do you know you weren't moving the scope slightly while spinning the turret.
what was the scope mounted in/on during your test?
Thanks for making my point why I don't get into these discussions. I don't need some amateur telling me about how to measure gauge repeatability and reproducibility. But thanks for fucking trying.
Why are you so hostile? English is not my main langue, sry if i missed something? But please - PLEASE defend that dialing 10 mils dont put the center crosshair where the 10 mil holdover was. You cant, and thats why you dont try. I dont know why you are so hostile, and i guess i dont care. BTW - the setup was steady. You seem to really be into the "i am a pro - you are a amateur" thing... Well maybe you are not that "pro" if you cant see a problem with a scope perfoming the way i explained?
Thats really what we were wondering.
Sound like you have vetted this enough, send it back and have them send you a new one
Why do you post on threads like this just to let us all know you are not going to post on threads like this?
He is right. I have read a lot of your posts and you are very hostile in basically every thread you comment in. Many threads take a nasty turn as soon as you start with these comments. You added nothing useful to this thread. This forum, and the shooting community in general need a lot less people like you.
First, all companies can put out a turd, it doesn't mean that you need to write off the company.
2nd, I believe your methodology can and does introduce errors.
As has been stated, a scope that has error in it can still return to zero.
not sure of your location, but, if you are not happy, by all means return it.
You may give Athlon a chance to make it right, but you don't have to.
2nd, I believe your methodology can and does introduce errors.
As has been stated, a scope that has error in it can still return to zero.
not sure of your location, but, if you are not happy, by all means return it.
You may give Athlon a chance to make it right, but you don't have to.
I am just saying, that since it can return to zero in my setup, it tells that it is stable and that the dialing havent put it off its original position. I dont say that because it can return to zero, it proves anything about the tracking. However, what i am saying is that the center crosshair should land where the 10mil hold over was when dialing 10 mils - and it is 4 clicks off. Either it tracks like shit, or the holdover marks are not accurate. I cant really see why this test would introduce any errors in that regard? Again, the setup was very, very stable. It is a setup build for this purpose, and it is heavy with rubber feet, it dosent move ;-) Thing is - the return time to Europe would take along time, and maybe i will have to pay for the return to the US from Europe. Either way, i know that all brands can have a turd, and maybe i will give them another chance in the future. But for now, i am just gonna lay the money for a S&B i think.
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Sry if my english was not good enough to explain why i pointed out it could return to zero. Why i pointed that out was because it proves that the setup was stable, and making the dialing did not put the scope off its orignal position. I dont say, that returning to zero tells anything about how the scopes tracks. In this case, it just tells that there is no movement introduced to the scope itself when dialing. Sry for any misunderstanding about that 
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I think people have tested individual examples of much more expensive premium scopes to have 2-4% tracking error, including S&Bs. If you don't think it's worth your time to stick with Athlon then go with another brand you trust but you never know when you'll get a lemon and I wouldn't write off the company for one bad experience.
Well, i might try Athlon again in the future. I dont know, but right now i am kind off dissapointed. When i got the Athlon, i was really close to get the S&B instead, but decided to try it out and save some money. The bad tracking was just the final push to get a S&B i guess. I have heard of 1-2% tracking error, but i must admit that i havent seen alot of 3-4% errors with high end scopes, but that might just be me that havent made enough research maybe
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Athlon service is quite good and the so is the Cronus. Send it back you will be pleased with what they send back.
He is not in the U.S., which makes returns both ways difficult, time consuming and expensive.
you could try the original retailer. but unfortunately that's how it works. not much of a way around it
Good call. I just tracked three of my S&Bs and they were all less than 1% error at 10 mil.
With the steel block and the scope, did you make sure you were parallax free when making/measuring the holdover marks?
I have zero experience with the Chronos but It 'should' be outstanding as it's made by LOW Japan.
I DO have experience w/ the Ares BTR and my results have been great. There's a review here on the Ares BTR and the Midas Tac and both tracked extremely well. The BTR stood w/ the best of the best even better.
I don't "love" the reticle on the BTRs but it will do.
www.snipershide.com
Send it in and Athlon will make it right. It's why they offer a warranty. So you can rest assured that IF you get a dud, they'll fix it.
I DO have experience w/ the Ares BTR and my results have been great. There's a review here on the Ares BTR and the Midas Tac and both tracked extremely well. The BTR stood w/ the best of the best even better.
I don't "love" the reticle on the BTRs but it will do.
Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50mm review
BigJimFish reviews the Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50mm scope as part of the Sub $1k FFP, Mil/Mil, optics series.
www.snipershide.com
Send it in and Athlon will make it right. It's why they offer a warranty. So you can rest assured that IF you get a dud, they'll fix it.
I have zero experience with the Chronos but It 'should' be outstanding as it's made by LOW Japan.
I DO have experience w/ the Ares BTR and my results have been great. There's a review here on the Ares BTR and the Midas Tac and both tracked extremely well. The BTR stood w/ the best of the best even better.
I don't "love" the reticle on the BTRs but it will do.
Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50mm review
BigJimFish reviews the Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50mm scope as part of the Sub $1k FFP, Mil/Mil, optics series.
Send it in and Athlon will make it right. It's why they offer a warranty. So you can rest assured that IF you get a dud, they'll fix it.
I live in Europe
Sending it back to the US will take a long time, and be pretty expensive. Its easyer to send it back to the store, and buy something else.I have a cronus btr. It is off on tracking by roughly 1%. Try to shoot a group at 100 meters, then dial up 10 mils and shoot at the same point of aim. Measure the distance between groups. That should tell you roughly where your scope tracks. 4% is too much, but all scope manufacturers put out scopes that do not track 100%. If it still fails, athlon will make it right.
This only works when the shooter operates the rifles 100% correctly. And you also have to get the measurement of the groups perfect.
Testing on a board is by far better than shooting groups.
If the OP has done this 10 times, and each time the reticle returns to zero, and each time the 10mil come up is off by the same amount (4mil) than depending on his shooting style the scope is not reliable.
If the OP never uses holdover and always dials, then an exact 100m range needs to be set then repeat the test with dots...small dots... already set at 100cm (if my thinking is correct). 100m is 109+ yards so the expected 36" movement for 10 mils is not going to work. I would go as far as to do a second test at only what the max range the scope will be used at. If he only needs to ever dial a max of 6 mil, then check the 6 mil tracking.
***Edited for caffeine corrected math
If the OP never uses holdover and always dials, then an exact 100m range needs to be set then repeat the test with dots...small dots... already set at 100cm (if my thinking is correct). 100m is 109+ yards so the expected 36" movement for 10 mils is not going to work. I would go as far as to do a second test at only what the max range the scope will be used at. If he only needs to ever dial a max of 6 mil, then check the 6 mil tracking.
***Edited for caffeine corrected math
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I would actually rarely dial over 6 mil. So if it dials true up to 6 mils, then it would be a useful scope for what i am using it for. However, when i lay down a good amount of money for a scope ( prices in Europe are quite high i think ), i dont like to know that it only performs out to 6 mil, also, if i ever should sell it, it would be hard to sell a scope that only tracks true out to 6 mil
I see what you mean thou ;-)I am at the same page. Groups POI can vary a bit, even for the best of shooters, so when testing things like this, i like to keep shooter errors, ammo, wind etc etc out of the equation.
Even though you are in Europe, you will get looked after if you can spare the time.
Just got a Delta Stryker HD and they’re European so might be worth a look?
Just got a Delta Stryker HD and they’re European so might be worth a look?
I looked at the Delta scopes, but have never had the chance to try em out
They look nice thou 
I have an Athlon Argos BTR and the tracking is superb. No optics company is perfect and it would not be impossible the OP's scope is just not right. Return it to the factory or take it back and get something else. I'd not personally write Athlon off but that's the OP's choice...I know too many folks running Athlon to believe this is a new standard from them. I have a Nephew who will only run NightForce Optics and he has sent 2 back for tracking issues over the years.
It happens to most manufacturers I think.
As far as hostile and unhelpful/combative Forumites, that's what the "Ignore Button" is for. You'll learn that some folks have nothing constructive nor positive to add (unfortunately) and the water gets much clearer and your Snipers Hide Experience will be much enhanced if you just ignore some folks and don't read their "contributions". Saves a lot of time and head shaking.
VooDoo
It happens to most manufacturers I think.
As far as hostile and unhelpful/combative Forumites, that's what the "Ignore Button" is for. You'll learn that some folks have nothing constructive nor positive to add (unfortunately) and the water gets much clearer and your Snipers Hide Experience will be much enhanced if you just ignore some folks and don't read their "contributions". Saves a lot of time and head shaking.
VooDoo
I have zero experience with the Chronos but It 'should' be outstanding as it's made by LOW Japan.
I DO have experience w/ the Ares BTR and my results have been great. There's a review here on the Ares BTR and the Midas Tac and both tracked extremely well. The BTR stood w/ the best of the best even better.
I don't "love" the reticle on the BTRs but it will do.
Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50mm review
BigJimFish reviews the Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50mm scope as part of the Sub $1k FFP, Mil/Mil, optics series.
Send it in and Athlon will make it right. It's why they offer a warranty. So you can rest assured that IF you get a dud, they'll fix it.
FYI just because its from LOW doesnt make it a outstanding scope. LOW or the other Japanese company JOL actually outsource a lot to China.
LOW only provides what the company specifies and willing to pay them. Machined vs hydroformed tubes. glass and coating quality. erector design ect ect.
Not speaking directly about Chronus since ive never used one but Ive been to these factories and seen some stellar products along with absolute garbage.
To the OP I would choose a quality scope that offers you convenience in afterservice. Perhaps your current scope company can assist you or you may have to go through you local distributor because of an exclusivity agreement.
If its a pain in the ass I would stick with a quality European scope brand and there are no shortages of them on your side of the pond.
Also please disregard the negative comments from the internet commando types, Im actually someone in this industry and I find your situation and results interesting. If you can please post a pic of your tracking rig.
Hi mate - the setup is currently at my friends farm house were we made it a couple of years ago. Its so darn heavy that we dont really move it around much. All my gun testing stuff i do at his place since he lives on a farm with no neighbors around, and i live in a more crowded place with neighbors, and in Europe, it would raise some eyebrows if i was sitting with shooting gear and / or guns in my back lawn
I will take a picture next time i am around his place, but if you imagine a big block of steel, with a block of steel with the same width and length of a picatinny rail welded on to the big block, and a pictanny rail welded on to that "raiser". The bottom of the big block is not adjustable, but there is a rubber layer glued on the entire bottom surface. Hope it makes sense, its kinda hard to explain in english for me ;-)
Exact distance isent really a must for this kind of test. with a FFP scope, dialing 10 mils should land the center crosshair where the 10mil holdover mark was, at any given distance. However, its important that you mark exactly were the 10mil holdover mark is, and dont move the scope when dialing. If the scope shall pass this test, the center crosshair will have to land at the mark were the 10mil holdover was, after dialing 10mils. Since scope subtensions tends to be accurate ( in my experince ), i have found this method to be quite usefull if not having messuering tape or similar very precise instruments for messuring the exact distance to a target. You can make a target with very precise marks thou, like a mark for every 10cm, and match up to the subtensions, and that way know that the distance is correct ( 100m for example ). But if you trust the subtensions is true ( and they tend to be ) you can do it the way i descriped.
