DLC on BCG's ..pro's v. con's ?

[bfoosh006]

Could anyone add their thoughts on DLC ( Diamond Like Carbon coatings ) for BCG's ?
It appears to be coating... so proper application and prep is critical. Does it add thickness to parts , like NiB ?
Would the DLC BCG hold oil as well as a phosphate BCG ?
Given my limited knowledge... I would assume it doesn't.
And since it might shed oil / lube.. would it be "harder" on a upper ? IE, produce more wear inside a typical upper, if not kept lubed


I see that PSA has a Schmid Tool 2 stage trigger with DLC applied. (https://palmettostatearmory.com/sabre-claw-two-stage-trigger-black-dlc-coated.html )
I did buy one, and it is smooth with a lighter pull weight. I have tried all sorts of Schmid Tool 2 stage triggers manufactured for the various companies, and IMHO, like everything else, the various Schmid 2 Stage's made for companies do have different QC levels from the sellers.
That application , seems like a good choice. (?)

Anyway Thanks to all for any helpful thoughts.

 

[thehun]

Here is my write up on ARFCOM:

Toolcraft FDE DLC BCG - I am sold! - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.

www.ar15.com

In short ... I am sold on DLC BCGs ...

 

[MSTN]

MSTN was the first to DLC coat bolts, bolt carriers, muzzle devices, and even gas rings and barrel exteriors 20 years ago, working with IonBond out of North Carolina. DLC will not be hard on your upper receiver - Quite the opposite, in fact.

DLC thickness is measured in microns, not inches, and has a Rockwell hardness in the low 90's. There's no real measurable dimensional change. DLC will not be hard on your upper receiver - Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[bfoosh006]

MSTN was the first to DLC coat bolts, bolt carriers, muzzle devices, and even gas rings and barrel exteriors 20 years ago, working with IonBond out of North Carolina. DLC will not be hard on your upper receiver - Quite the opposite, in fact.

DLC thickness is measured in microns, not inches, and has a Rockwell hardness in the low 90's. There's no real measurable dimensional change. DLC will not be hard on your upper receiver - Quite the opposite, in fact.

Thank You !

 

[MontanaMan]

Pretty much what MSTN said.
I deal with it commercially & it's been improved over the original versions & has a very low coefficient of friction, lower than chrome or black nitride, but like both of those it does not allow oil to penetrate as it has no real porosity nor crystalline structure like phosphate.
It is by far, the slickest coating for a BCG currently available.

MM

 

[Rudy Gonsior]

So far I’ve be impressed with DLC BCGs, obviously it’s not exactly new technology, it’s something I’ve seen out and about in the industry for the last decade or so.

That said I am curious why is not more prevalent (cost would be off the cuff guess). I’ve been involved recently in testing various components for manufacturing, we had one of the test rifles with a DLC BCG complete 20 SURG cycles (just shy of 5k) completely dry with zero stoppages. You could literally wipe the BCG clean with a finger. Additionally I did not note any sort of extra wear on the upper or anything like that. As a BCG option, DLC seems great.

 

[MSTN]

Cost and lead time are the big factors.

Ionbond DLC is even more important on the bolt! JP has been DLC coating their bolts for several years now.

How about a muzzle device used with a suppressor? It is super helpful. This component gets the nastiest carbon exposure on the whole gun. Surefire's military reps saw their first DLC coated SF muzzle devices in my shop a LONG time ago.

 

[oldrifleman]

Been using JP bolts for a while and like how quickly they clean up,

 

[tucaz]

Here is my write up on ARFCOM:

Toolcraft FDE DLC BCG - I am sold! - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.

www.ar15.com

In short ... I am sold on DLC BCGs ...

interesting on the RCA adjustable key. thats interesting and might try that.

so you are regulating gas there, instead of at the gas block.

also, what is this sealing all about? never heard of that. how do you go about that with rtv?

thanks.

 

[thehun]

Yeah.

interesting on the RCA adjustable key. thats interesting and might try that.

so you are regulating gas there, instead of at the gas block.

also, what is this sealing all about? never heard of that. how do you go about that with rtv?

thanks.

Yes ... I am because I have a setup with a FSB (I prefer to regulate at the gas port but with this setup I didn't have the option) ... it works great actually ... for example ... same setup without the RCA adj key ... I could maybe fire 3-4 rounds before the gas gets me ... now it was at the end of 20 rounds before I even got a hint of it ... major difference ... but also ... the rifle with the CAR gas shot like a 20" M16A4 upper with a rifle buffer system ... (easiest way I can describe it) ...

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Could anyone add their thoughts on DLC ( Diamond Like Carbon coatings ) for BCG's ?
It appears to be coating... so proper application and prep is critical. Does it add thickness to parts , like NiB ?
Would the DLC BCG hold oil as well as a phosphate BCG ?
Given my limited knowledge... I would assume it doesn't.
And since it might shed oil / lube.. would it be "harder" on a upper ? IE, produce more wear inside a typical upper, if not kept lubed


I see that PSA has a Schmid Tool 2 stage trigger with DLC applied. (https://palmettostatearmory.com/sabre-claw-two-stage-trigger-black-dlc-coated.html )
I did buy one, and it is smooth with a lighter pull weight. I have tried all sorts of Schmid Tool 2 stage triggers manufactured for the various companies, and IMHO, like everything else, the various Schmid 2 Stage's made for companies do have different QC levels from the sellers.
That application , seems like a good choice. (?)

Anyway Thanks to all for any helpful thoughts.

PVD finishes don't hold oil, although I've never had issues with any of the PVD BCGs I have. I like the way they handle clean up and carbon removal. Technically PVD finishes do add thickness but it's microns. I don't think I've noticed extra wear but I haven't looked either.

 

[MontanaMan]

Technically, DLC is done via CVD, not PVD, though both are vacuum processes.

MSTN,
IME, IonBond is very difficult to deal with.
There is a company in Sarasota that I visited a couple of weeks ago to assess as.a potential equipment supplier & I was very impressed with their equipment & know how.
And they also offer coating services for people who cannot buy a system. The name is Mustang Vacuum Systems.
Also Calico Coatings in North Carolina are a decent shop for coatings service.

MM

 

[bfoosh006]

Cost and lead time are the big factors.

Ionbond DLC is even more important on the bolt! JP has been DLC coating their bolts for several years now.

How about a muzzle device used with a suppressor? It is super helpful. This component gets the nastiest carbon exposure on the whole gun. Surefire's military reps saw their first DLC coated SF muzzle devices in my shop a LONG time ago.

Speaking about other parts that may benefit from DLC... what about a Adj. GB ?

 

[MSTN]

"IME, IonBond is very difficult to deal with."

Agreed...

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Speaking about other parts that may benefit from DLC... what about a Adj. GB ?

Probably not worth the cost. Frankly, most high end processes aren't worth the cost in this application due to the low scale cost of nitriding, phosphating, and anodizing. You may as well throw away the part and replace it when it wears out. For example, I have 10k rounds on a phosphated bolt, a brand new BCG is $80. A new nitrided BCG is the same price and I have three in my parts bin. I really splurged on a chrome BCG for $85 too. These are reasonably good quality parts too. Unless there is some intrinsic characteristic to the part separate from the surface finish, the finish by itself doesn't add much value in this application.

I had an entire 1911 done by IonBond in the mid 2000's before Springer got the exclusive.

 

[Bobby Ball]

Just throwing into the thread I purchased a toolcraft DLC bcg for an AR build I did. So far I'm very happy with the results. I'm only about 1500-1600 rounds in so I don't have long term results yet, but first impressions seem great to me. And the price was very reasonable. Idk if I would send one out to be done, but I will definitely buy another one. I'm actually looking at another one for my AR 10 overhaul.

 

[Tokay444]

Probably not worth the cost. Frankly, most high end processes aren't worth the cost in this application due to the low scale cost of nitriding, phosphating, and anodizing. You may as well throw away the part and replace it when it wears out. For example, I have 10k rounds on a phosphated bolt, a brand new BCG is $80. A new nitrided BCG is the same price and I have three in my parts bin. I really splurged on a chrome BCG for $85 too. These are reasonably good quality parts too. Unless there is some intrinsic characteristic to the part separate from the surface finish, the finish by itself doesn't add much value in this application.

I had an entire 1911 done by IonBond in the mid 2000's before Springer got the exclusive.

Toolcraft's DLC BCG can be had for 100 bucks right now. I grabbed one with Carpenter bold. Regularly $210.

 

[JS8588]

If you want DLC coating work done, Chad @ Club Custom Guns. Reasonable prices and phenomenal customer service.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Toolcraft's DLC BCG can be had for 100 bucks right now. I grabbed one with Carpenter bold. Regularly $210.

Seems like a good enough deal. I bought a Nitrided Toolcraft BCG with 158 bolt for $70. It's hard to want to spend the extra money when the parts are priced to be disposable.

 

[LRRPF52]

I still have a hard-chromed Colt bolt carrier in my 605 build that can’t be newer than 1963, since it has no Forward Assist serrations, has one of the older carrier keys. I’ve never had as much of a hiccup with that carbine, but I haven’t burned it down either. I have run several mags through it per range session though fairly rapidly. I see it more as a collector’s/retro novelty sample than anything.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I still have a hard-chromed Colt bolt carrier in my 605 build that can’t be newer than 1963, since it has no Forward Assist serrations, has one of the older carrier keys. I’ve never had as much of a hiccup with that carbine, but I haven’t burned it down either. I have run several mags through it per range session though fairly rapidly. I see it more as a collector’s/retro novelty sample than anything.

Brownells has fresh chrome BCG's without serrations.

AR-15 Semi Auto Chrome Bolt Carrier Group No Serrations | Brownells

Whether or not you're looking to outfit your top-of-the-line tactical rifle with an easily cleaned, low-friction bolt-carrier group or you're aiming for a period-correct Model 601 or even an XM16E1, then the Brownells AR-15 Chrome Bolt Carrier Gro...

www.brownells.com

A few years back BCG's were getting horded and were super expensive. They are absolutely dirt cheap right now. AR308 BCG's included.

 

[LRRPF52]

I bought my slick chrome bolt carrier from a well-known retro guy maybe 10 years ago before the repro band wagon got underway.

You could also get Smith Enterprises and RRA Chromed BCGs 10 years ago. Mine is an old Colt carrier made from anywhere between 1959-1963.

The Finnish Defense Forces did some testing with different coatings on BCGs in their full-swing of conditions, not that they have more testing budget that US Army and Fort Greeley for extreme cold weather tests. The TiN carriers didn’t perform any better than Mil-Std BCM carriers.