Rifle Scopes Do I have a defective Viper PST?

B

Bayou

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Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 21, 2010
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Baton Rouge, LA
#1
UPS just delivered a Vortex 6-24X50 Viper PST scope, 2ndFP, 0.1 mrad. I had the 1stFP backordered for the last couple months at Midway but when they changed the expected ship date to next March I decided to take order the fixed reticle model as I need something decent now.

OK so I'm mounting the scope. I set the rifle up in the garage and bore sight a fence post about 100 yds away. When I look through the scope at 6X Mag the crosshair is about 8.8 mrads high, 2.2 in the sight picture with a mag factor of 4. It took 89 clicks to position the crosshair on the target which was the top right corner of the right-most fence post in the pic below.

Vortex_PST_0elev_view.jpg


After I zero out the scope like this there is only about 1 revolution (5 mrads) of elevation adjustment left.

I know the base and rings are OK. Its a Warne base and Burris rings. I just pulled a Leupold VX-L hunting scope off and it needed about 2 MOA elevation to coinside with the same bore sight picture. I measured the Burris rings with calipers and their dead on - no tilt coming from them.

The plot thickens: The packaging has evidence that the scope saw some rough handling as there are embossed ridges on the box top where a turret was smashed into the box and the scope lens cap that shipped with the scope is cracked. Pretty nice huh? Is that the way you'd like to see your precision shooting instrument treated?

Vortex_PST_inside_box_top.jpg


Vortex_PST_lens_caps.jpg


So am I correct here guys - there is something way wrong with the elevation zero on this Viper scope or am I missing something?????

Bummed out in Baton Rouge - as if waiting to be flooded out wasn't bad enough.
 
#2
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

You could PM Scott_at_Vortex on here or give them a call / email. They stand behind their products 110%. If it is decided that Midway or the delivery agent is to blame file a claim and give them the same pictures and explanation you gave us. Hope this helps bud, stay safe down there.
 
#3
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

Bore sighting is not accurate enough imho to tell if you have an issue, you need to get it zero'd at 100 to know for sure (by shooting it).

That scope has 20 mil of travel basically, so on a 0 moa base with all the stars aligning you should have 10 mil remaining, but that's in a perfect scenario. It's very possible that by looking down the bore that you'd be 18" off at 100 yards for a quick bore sight and if you are then there's your 5 mil. All that's assuming that your rings, receiver, barrel, etc are perfect to start with....and they're not.

I'd say you need to shoot the rifle and report back.
 
#4
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bore sighting is not accurate enough imho to tell if you have an issue, you need to get it zero'd at 100 to know for sure (by shooting it).

That scope has 20 mil of travel basically, so on a 0 moa base with all the stars aligning you should have 10 mil remaining, but that's in a perfect scenario. It's very possible that by looking down the bore that you'd be 18" off at 100 yards for a quick bore sight and if you are then there's your 5 mil. All that's assuming that your rings, receiver, barrel, etc are perfect to start with....and they're not.

I'd say you need to shoot the rifle and report back. </div></div>

I don't know about that, I think if you do it right bore sighting is good to a few inches at 100 yds. When I mounted the Leupy VX-L I used the same procedure and the first shot was about 3 " from center at 100 yds. Since I may want to return this product I really don't want to shoot the rifle with it mounted.
 
#5
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

I think I would listen to JasonK, you shooting the rifle with the scope doesnt void dicks hat pin on the warranty, thats what its for, to add If I could always boresight to within two inches Id be hustling phkrs at the range all day long. Just sayn. But hey its your world and comfy level.
 
#6
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

Bayou, I don't think that there is an issue, yet. You won't know what's going on for sure until you get it zeroed. Bore sighting is a very rough estimate.

On another note, when I got my first PST, I mounted it and after getting it zeroed, I didn't have enough elevation left to get me to 600 yards. I wasn't running a 20MOA base back then, but still thought that I should have at least enough elevation to get a .308 out to 600. I sent it in and they corrected the problem for me.
 
#8
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

Regarding returning it to Midway - they will only take it back (and charge you a re-stocking fee) if you HAVE NOT mounted it. If it has been mounted (which you were so kind to take a picture of...) then your only recourse is a damage claim. If it is damaged then mounting it will not matter, and since it was mounted it is too late to return for refund or credit. So go ahead and shoot it.
 
#11
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

First off...get out of the garage and onto a range to see where you are in terms of the amount of adjustment you have left with a true, 100yd zero. Bore sighting can be helpful, and in some cases, pretty accurate...jasonk already covered the problems with it though.

Once you have it on target, zeroed, etc., then figure out where you are in terms of available elevation adjustment. Only then will you know if there's an issue.

If you find that there is a real-world problem...skip MidwayUSA altogether and deal straight with Vortex either direct with the Vortex CS Dept or by starting a PM dialogue with Scott here on the Hide to see how best to proceed. Unlike retailers with policies about returning scopes that have been mounted, Vortex realizes that in order to tell if there is an issue with a scope, a good many number of times out of 10...you'll have to actually mount and attempt to use the damn thing.
wink.gif
 
#12
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bayou</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't know about that, I think if you do it right bore sighting is good to a few inches at 100 yds. When I mounted the Leupy VX-L I used the same procedure and the first shot was about 3 " from center at 100 yds. Since I may want to return this product I really don't want to shoot the rifle with it mounted. </div></div>

So if you are such an optics hotshot why are you asking the internet peanut gallery if your scope is OK or not? As mentioned, get out of the garage and shoot the f'kin thing before implying its messed up.

Good part is that Vortex is a stand up company and I'm pretty sure they'll take care of you if you do find an actual problem when you get your weiner out of your hands and actually go to the range and see whats going on. I wouldn't bother them until you know, as you know by your wait on the FFP, they are kinda busy right now.

I do like that you are quoting your experience with a VXL-I to a devout optics whore like Jason, as we said back in kindygarten, "smooth move ex-lax!"
 
#13
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

I just got my PST about a month ago. I love the scope, but the illumination on it is horrible. It doesn't work on 1, 4, 5, or 7 unless you wiggle it around just right. Other than that, it works great. I don't use the illumination at all, I guess it just bothers me a little that not everything on the scope is perfect. Maybe I just got a lemon, but it wouldn't persuade me not to buy another one. My dilemma isn't exactly relevant to this exact topic, but I thought I would add another problem seen with the scope.
 
#15
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

though id agree that it needs to be fired, I dont agree that you need to get out of the garage, shoot it from the garage, that way you are mere inches from snipers hide so we can coach you through the next step
 
#16
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

LOL +1 on getting it on paper. I zeroed my Bushnell this weekend. Looked down the bore and zeroed the scope. Then I used my new fancy smancy laser bore sight. At 25 yards I was an inch of elevation and windage with it. I have to be pretty close right? 16" high at 50 yards something like a foot left. So much for the cash spent on the laser bore site. I would shoot it. My $.02
 
#17
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

My packing was similar, dents on the inside of the box and the interior spacer parts that are supposed to hold the scope were looking kinda rough and used. My first thought was that I received somebody's returned product. Does anyone know if these boxes come from the factory shrink wrapped, because mine didn't.

There's a lot I like about this scope, but given my first impression it might go back. While I wasn't expecting the glass to be great my first impression was not favorable. I suppose if I limit myself to 16x of less it's ok, but the quality in the upper ranges starts to trail off, which is to be expected to some extent. The touchy eye box and changing eye relief are more likely to be the main deal breaker. I'll have to do some further comparisons before I pass judgment.

The only other issues I have is that the parallax adjustment is audibly gritty throughout the range, getting worse in the upper half as you approach infinity. Using the max illumination on the max zoom provided some interesting effects. There was bloom, but more than that it gave the reticle sort of a fish eye effect. Reducing the magnification or the illumination eliminated that oddity.
 
#18
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim-VT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My packing was similar, dents on the inside of the box and the interior spacer parts that are supposed to hold the scope were looking kinda rough and used. My first thought was that I received somebody's returned product. Does anyone know if these boxes come from the factory shrink wrapped, because mine didn't.

There's a lot I like about this scope, but given my first impression it might go back. While I wasn't expecting the glass to be great my first impression was not favorable. I suppose if I limit myself to 16x of less it's ok, but the quality in the upper ranges starts to trail off, which is to be expected to some extent. The touchy eye box and changing eye relief are more likely to be the main deal breaker. I'll have to do some further comparisons before I pass judgment.

The only other issues I have is that the parallax adjustment is audibly gritty throughout the range, getting worse in the upper half as you approach infinity. Using the max illumination on the max zoom provided some interesting effects. There was bloom, but more than that it gave the reticle sort of a fish eye effect. Reducing the magnification or the illumination eliminated that oddity. </div></div>

Blasphemy!!!

You must be off your rocker.
Apparently, you have not been reading the epic threads for the past year, 12 months before anyone even laid their hands on one.

These scopes are so awesome, they were the best scope made, even before they were made.
 
#19
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim-VT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My packing was similar, dents on the inside of the box and the interior spacer parts that are supposed to hold the scope were looking kinda rough and used. My first thought was that I received somebody's returned product. Does anyone know if these boxes come from the factory shrink wrapped, because mine didn't.

There's a lot I like about this scope, but given my first impression it might go back. While I wasn't expecting the glass to be great my first impression was not favorable. I suppose if I limit myself to 16x of less it's ok, but the quality in the upper ranges starts to trail off, which is to be expected to some extent. The touchy eye box and changing eye relief are more likely to be the main deal breaker. I'll have to do some further comparisons before I pass judgment.

The only other issues I have is that the parallax adjustment is audibly gritty throughout the range, getting worse in the upper half as you approach infinity. Using the max illumination on the max zoom provided some interesting effects. There was bloom, but more than that it gave the reticle sort of a fish eye effect. Reducing the magnification or the illumination eliminated that oddity. </div></div>

Blasphemy!!!

You must be off your rocker.
Apparently, you have not been reading the epic threads for the past year, 12 months before anyone even laid their hands on one.

These scopes are so awesome, they were the best scope made, even before they were made. </div></div>

Lol, I'm afraid the Super Sniper may be following the same footsteps.
 
#20
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Blasphemy!!!
</div></div>

LOL. I've been following this for around a year since I ordered my PST on 6/26. Did a side by side with the cheap "SWFA special" Vortex Crossfire 6-24. The chromatic aberration of the Crossfire was noticeably worse, but other than that they two were fairly equivalent at max zoom. Not a good thing, and not enough to justify a $700 price difference for the added feature set. Set the PST to 10x and compared to Leupold M4 3.5-10 at max power and still preferred the Leupold.
 
#21
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bore sighting is not accurate enough imho to tell if you have an issue, you need to get it zero'd at 100 to know for sure (by shooting it).

That scope has 20 mil of travel basically, so on a 0 moa base with all the stars aligning you should have 10 mil remaining, but that's in a perfect scenario. It's very possible that by looking down the bore that you'd be 18" off at 100 yards for a quick bore sight and if you are then there's your 5 mil. All that's assuming that your rings, receiver, barrel, etc are perfect to start with....and they're not.

I'd say you need to shoot the rifle and report back.</div></div>

No way. It is evident that there is a problem with the turrets. Just send the scope back to vortex and it will be back in about a week.
 
#22
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kalman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">remau308, have you talked to Vortex CS department about it? If so what did they say? If not, why the hell not? </div></div>

No, I have not called them. Maybe I should just to report a problem from my experience. I don't use illumination at all, I was just stating something wrong with my scope. Other than the illumination, the scope works great. The turrets are comparable to Nightforce, but the glass is lacking, but hey, I only paid $700, so I wasn't expecting pure perfection.
 
#23
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

Thanks for the feed back gents. I decided to send the Vortex back to Midway and jump on the Hide SWFA SS 5-20X50 group buy. Midway's policy of not accepting scope returns if the optic has been mounted is why I don't want to fire any rounds with this scope. When I bore sighted with it for the OP I just barely tightened the ring bolts by finger - just enough to keep the scope from moving when I worked the turrets. This way the main tube doesn't get marked by the rings. If I wanted to shoot with it I would have to torque down the rings and then I might have a problem if I wanted to return it and Midway doesn't agree with me that the scope is defective.

On the accuracy of bore sighting I think a lot of folks have never tried to do a really accurate bore sighting because there is simply no need to. All you have to do is a rough sighting to get a shot on paper then you do the remainder of the job using the bullet POI. 99 times out of 100 24 MOA will be considered a success. But my objective here was different. To evaluate the possibility of a problem with the scope I needed the most accurate bore sighting possible. So I did a painstakingly careful job. Not a rough quick and dirty effort like some may think.

If you think about it bore sighting is a lot like using open sights. If you understand the geometry problem and you have good eyesight and you practice enough you can get pretty good. And some folks are obviously a lot better at it than others. Maybe the fact that I have dual aperture MoJo sights on my Yugo M48 helps me here as shooting it provides practice at sighting through two concentric circles which is exactly what you do when bore sighting. Anyway in closing I just wanted to say I wasn't blowing hot air with respect to bore sighting being good to a few inches. I've done this several times and I bet most here could too if they actually tried. But the fact is most don't try because there is no reason to.
 
#24
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

That's to bad that your sending the scope back and moving to another brand due to bad shipping and not anything to do with the manufacturer. I mounted my PST 6x24-50 FFP mil/mil last week. I took it out to the range for 3.5 hours to break in the rifle and get it zeroed and the scope performed GREAT. I shot it at 50 yards, it took me 3 shots and it was on and then moved out to 100 yards, no problem. Camera Land made sure that my scope was packaged good and well protected from the folks at the USPS. I'm very pleased with this scope thus far.
 
#25
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

I would like to know what kind of boresighter you used and has it been accurate thus far? There's been a couple times when I just made a mental error whether it was misaligning the boresight, using incorrect arbors, etc. and couldn't figure out why I couldn't get on paper. Turns out I was shooting about 9 inches over the target. Picked up a good amount of adjustment dialing it back down.
 
#26
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got my PST about a month ago. I love the scope, but the illumination on it is horrible. It doesn't work on 1, 4, 5, or 7 unless you wiggle it around just right. Other than that, it works great. </div></div>

There's nothing wrong with your illumination; there should have been an insert with your scope. The lower settings are for night vision only and the middle settings are for dark adjusted eyes.
 
#27
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim-VT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got my PST about a month ago. I love the scope, but the illumination on it is horrible. It doesn't work on 1, 4, 5, or 7 unless you wiggle it around just right. Other than that, it works great. </div></div>

There's nothing wrong with your illumination; there should have been an insert with your scope. The lower settings are for night vision only and the middle settings are for dark adjusted eyes. </div></div>

I have looked through the scope at night, I also took it into a room with no windows just to see if I was wrong, and sure enough, the middle settings I commented about only work when I wiggle the illumination knob in the right place. If the scope gets bumped just a little, it will go out completely on these settings. 10 and 9 are very bright and can be seen in lower light, but the other ones are hit or miss.
 
#28
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

In a pitch black room I see nothing at 7 and below, but then again I didn't wait half an hour for my eyes to adjust to the dark. I wonder if your "wiggle" causes a brightness change just before it's about to change to the off position. If you are really concerned you might keep it next to your bed and try looking though it at the middle levels when you first wake up.
 
#29
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THEBEARRRRRRJEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to know what kind of boresighter you used and has it been accurate thus far? There's been a couple times when I just made a mental error whether it was misaligning the boresight, using incorrect arbors, etc. and couldn't figure out why I couldn't get on paper. Turns out I was shooting about 9 inches over the target. Picked up a good amount of adjustment dialing it back down. </div></div>

This is the kind I used:

eye.gif
 
#30
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

Then maybe you need these:



And YES, they do come in FDE, matte black and Multicam. They're also working on molded in-colors now.

I mean really, you're trying to argue the adjustments and zero of a scope in which you haven't even shot yet.
 
#32
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BapZander</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never shoot my scope, I shoot my rifle. The scope is for show.

Added - hmm - high end tactical part 4.

We mounted the scopes to our targets at 100 yds and shot a group. results as follows... </div></div>

Ok grammar Nazi so your scopes are for show? Do you bumpfire your custom Intervention airsoft gun with a 15-144x85 ultrabonkersmegazoom countersniper with a carbotanium base, 65mm rings made from the bones of Osama Bin Laden and a 2 liter pop bottle "silencer" for faster ROF, reduced recoil and quicker follow up shots in preparation for the zombie apocalypse?

They're tools. Not unlike yourself. Not for show. Tell the men and women who serve our country and rely on these tools to defend their life and our freedom that their scope is "for show" and see what happens.
 
#34
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim-VT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In a pitch black room I see nothing at 7 and below, but then again I didn't wait half an hour for my eyes to adjust to the dark. I wonder if your "wiggle" causes a brightness change just before it's about to change to the off position. If you are really concerned you might keep it next to your bed and try looking though it at the middle levels when you first wake up. </div></div>

The thing is, I'm not really concerned if they work or not because I won't be using it to hunt, so that rules out most if not all times of low light that it might be used in lol. I was just pointing out something I experienced with my personal PST. Everything else is great though.
 
#35
Re: Do I have a defective Viper PST?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BapZander</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You don't think it would be humorous and potentially informative to shoot scopes (only for rigorous testing purposes) - I think our freedom would be ok if we shot a few. Only for T&E though. Once the contract is assigned, then only looking through them would be allowed.

</div></div>

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