I currently have a Remington 308 sps tactical. It has the 20in barrel and shoots sub Moa at 200 yards. I'm looking to shoot this rifle out to 600 yards. I will start shooting a few competitions with this rifle. It will be my secondary rifle as I am having a 6.5cm built. Is it worth having the action trued?
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Do I need to have my action trued? Or waste if money?
- Thread starter Lrdchaos
- Start date
You already got a Build Coming and this one seems to shoot good. I wouldn't bother and save the Money towards Ammo and Better Scope for the Custom Build. If it shoots it shoots, don't fix something that's not broken unless you're going to go all out with New Barrel and everything.
I asked Bartlien to true when they put the barrel on mine. They stated they would check it. It came back without true-ing and sub 1/2 MOA is the norm. Doesn't sound like yours has a problem and the money could be used better elsewhere. JMHO
If the time ever comes where you do shoot the barrel out and need a new tube put on… Have a competent smith check the action. I've trued two so far that were pretty out of shape from the factory and I honestly believe that truing them was a benefit. Some are better than others so at the minimum have it checked down the line.
Trouble with this, is getting the action fixtured and indicated to the point where you even can accurately check its "trueness", is most of the work. Once indicated in the lathe, you'd be crazy not to spend the extra time on the machine work.
Many shops won't put a barrel on unless they have trued it up.
Anyway, the advice to leave it be until its barrel time is good.
It's all about UFS - the Unexplained Flyer Syndrome.
You know your rifle, you know your load; you are in the middle of the match and there is a flyer!
Was there a flag change you missed?
Did your scope just crap out?
Are the rings tight?
Are the action screws tight?
Was it a bad bullet?
Was it a bad piece of brass?
Did your barrel just go south?
Did the barrel touch the stock?
And so on and on and on.
We spend countless dollars and hours eliminating the variables in the neverending UFS chase.
308 will last a good few thousand rounds - I was in your situation, shot the rifle to make sure that the barrel is not junk - it wasn't, it shot .630 average (6 groups of 5 challenge). I had the action and barrel trued by Mechanical Accuracy in Jones, OK. Now I have one less thing to worry about for the next few years of shooting this rifle. And it's not like the money is wasted - once the action is trued, it's trued. When I go with a different barrel I don't have to worry about the action ever again.
Only you can answer if need the action trued.
You action is most definitely ain't true, and "we checked it and it didn't need it" is complete BS - nobody spends 1 hour setting up the lathe and not spending 2 seconds it takes to make the cut.
Also, "money spent better elsewhere" is BS - getting action work is not matter of money, it's matter of wait time; for most people if you are waiting to have your rifle to be worked on for a few months "might as well change the barrel" is a no-brainer.
You know your rifle, you know your load; you are in the middle of the match and there is a flyer!
Was there a flag change you missed?
Did your scope just crap out?
Are the rings tight?
Are the action screws tight?
Was it a bad bullet?
Was it a bad piece of brass?
Did your barrel just go south?
Did the barrel touch the stock?
And so on and on and on.
We spend countless dollars and hours eliminating the variables in the neverending UFS chase.
308 will last a good few thousand rounds - I was in your situation, shot the rifle to make sure that the barrel is not junk - it wasn't, it shot .630 average (6 groups of 5 challenge). I had the action and barrel trued by Mechanical Accuracy in Jones, OK. Now I have one less thing to worry about for the next few years of shooting this rifle. And it's not like the money is wasted - once the action is trued, it's trued. When I go with a different barrel I don't have to worry about the action ever again.
Only you can answer if need the action trued.
You action is most definitely ain't true, and "we checked it and it didn't need it" is complete BS - nobody spends 1 hour setting up the lathe and not spending 2 seconds it takes to make the cut.
Also, "money spent better elsewhere" is BS - getting action work is not matter of money, it's matter of wait time; for most people if you are waiting to have your rifle to be worked on for a few months "might as well change the barrel" is a no-brainer.
Unless you want to change the barrel, it's usually not worth the money to true the receiver. Mark Gordon from Short Action Customs offers an SPS package that might interest you if you want to improve accuracy.
I'd need to shoot a gun with a trued vs. an untrued action to know fer sure. But seems to me like a waste of money. Inaccuracy is caused by variation between shots. Unless the barrel is loose in the action, there's no variation between ANY barrel and ANY action - trued or untrued.
Somebody mentioned "unexplained flyer syndrome." I think that's on-point. People get worried the "unexplained flyer" MIGHT be caused by an untrued action. In my experience, I've seldom had a TRULY unexplained flyer. Usually its the "nut" holding "the wrench."
That said, if the action is already in the lathe for a new barrel install, might as well true it.
Somebody mentioned "unexplained flyer syndrome." I think that's on-point. People get worried the "unexplained flyer" MIGHT be caused by an untrued action. In my experience, I've seldom had a TRULY unexplained flyer. Usually its the "nut" holding "the wrench."
That said, if the action is already in the lathe for a new barrel install, might as well true it.
I am a bit confused with the "while in there" consensus.
Barrel and action work are two separate entities, the only thing in common is unscrewing the barrel from action; and it's not that difficult, time consuming or expensive. So, you either believe that truing does something or you don't; either do it or don't. Like I said - since unscrewing the barrel is not very involved - making your judgement solely on that is very confusing to me.
Barrel and action work are two separate entities, the only thing in common is unscrewing the barrel from action; and it's not that difficult, time consuming or expensive. So, you either believe that truing does something or you don't; either do it or don't. Like I said - since unscrewing the barrel is not very involved - making your judgement solely on that is very confusing to me.
Here is my range report with my untrued 700. Let's just say I'm glad I did not waste my money.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...on-geraci-remington-700-308-range-report.html
I'm sure there are some that need it, but if it does not I doubt you will notice anything.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...on-geraci-remington-700-308-range-report.html
I'm sure there are some that need it, but if it does not I doubt you will notice anything.
The on the right and below was for getting a zero at 300(UFS's are not 2 inches off [MENTION=89035]300[/MENTION]) First time shooting the new rifle at that distance and was getting my dope right. The top one was POI shift with the can off. Just trying to see if the new barrel had as big of a shift as the stock barrel. It's a little better but still about one MOA shift. I would have wrote on the target but it's hard with black paper."IGNORE" indeed is the simplest form of dealing with the UFS....
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if it shoots presently, why change anything at that point. now when re-barreling, while it's in the shop, why not go the extra mile to have it trued along with all the other goodies to have a literally custom rifle?
if messing around less than 500Y it's probably not that big of deal, but getting out there further shooting regular matches i'd want everything lined up as much as i can.
i've never had one trued up and not as active as the other folks here competition wise so i don't see a need for me to do it. but if the time ever arises that i'd shoot more important matches, i'd want to have everything "just right" and straight. IMO it's one of those things that separate a precision firearm from a DIY garage type build like i have. and then you know you have the best setup you can have, it can't hurt to have it done.
as the OP has a build going on with a 6.5 has the .308 and will not be without a rifle, i'd put more time and $ investment toward the 6.5 and continue shooting the .308 as is.
if messing around less than 500Y it's probably not that big of deal, but getting out there further shooting regular matches i'd want everything lined up as much as i can.
i've never had one trued up and not as active as the other folks here competition wise so i don't see a need for me to do it. but if the time ever arises that i'd shoot more important matches, i'd want to have everything "just right" and straight. IMO it's one of those things that separate a precision firearm from a DIY garage type build like i have. and then you know you have the best setup you can have, it can't hurt to have it done.
as the OP has a build going on with a 6.5 has the .308 and will not be without a rifle, i'd put more time and $ investment toward the 6.5 and continue shooting the .308 as is.
"IGNORE" indeed is the simplest form of dealing with the UFS....
Ya, sort of what I was thinking. I don't get it. If a factory rifle held 1/4 MOA to distance why do nearly all competitive shooters shoot trued, custom builds? Why is there even a market for custom rifles or barrels for that matter?
Truing an action a waist of money.? Sounds like someone wants Ferrari quality and performance for KIA price.
If an action doesn't need truing, it doesn't need truing. The larger majority of your accuracy is going to come from a quality cut & reamed barrel, not the action. At a certain point you reach a point of diminishing returns. Some actions can really benefit from it, others it may not. However, to have an action trued and stick with a factory barrel in most cases is going to give you little return on your investment...
I would love to see how well the rifle can do in the 6-groups of 5-shot challenge.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...yard-bolt-action-6group-30round-shootout.html
If you called the shots - they are not flyers at all and don't need to be explained. It would be very informative for everyone how well non-blue-printed receiver with high-end barrel by a good smith would stack up against no-holds-barred builds...
I kind of agree.
I might not true an action that has an aftermarket barrel in it all ready. One reason I would not is because the face of the action starts to get close to the front scope mount screw when a bunch of mother fuckers true the same action.
Factory action that is getting rebarreled. Fuck ya.
A factory action that is keeping the factory barrel. Fuck no. I wouldn't even bother taking the barrel off.
So in order to check the face of an action it needs to be placed on a piloted center and spun in a lathe. At this point most of the work is done. Why not do it. With the correct tools it doesn't take but a few moments and, it's done.
If I were a smith I would not barrel a factory Remington action without truing it. Period.
The face of my factory action took a .0035 cut to square the face.
If you're going spend $X,XXX on a custom gun why try to not spent $100 (GAP) on the foundation of the rifle just to buy 100-150 bullets. Makes no sense to me. Again, Ferrari performance and quality for Kia price.
I want to see how all of these 1/2 MOA all day as long as I do my part 175 SMK over 44.5gr of Varget Remington 700 5R's do in the shootout. At 1, 3, and 600. Non-trued factory guns with hand loads.
