Hunting & Fishing Do I really need a .300 Win Mag or will .30-06 be fine?

[smorgousford]

Guys, I need some help picking out the caliber of a new hunting rifle. I think I've narrowed it down to either .300 Win Mag or .30-06 and need your help persuading me one way or the other. First I'll give a little background and planned use:

- I will be doing all my hunting between 9,000 and 12,500 feet. This gives me a great advantage with air density.
- I plan on hunting elk, moose, mountain goat and big horn sheep with this rifle
- This will be for hunting only (not target shooting) so it will only be shot a few times a year
- I plan on only shooting factory loaded ammunition
- I plan to keep all shots at 500 yards or less

I've run the ballistics for some of the .30-06 factory loads that I would shoot at 10,000' elevation and came up with the following:



The .300 Win Mag is offered in all these factory loads as well but with 200-250 fps faster initial velocities.

So what says the Hide? Would .30-06 be enough for my scenario or would I be better served with a .300 Win Mag?

 

[former naval person]

.300 Win

 

[colscar]

shot placement and quality bullets are what have helped me so i would say either

 

[pizzamanny]

Either.

 

[piglatinhater]

You could get by with the 30-06. Use the $$ you'd spend on the .300 to upgrade the scope and feed it quality ammo.

 

[Hairball]

At 500 yards or less, go with the 30-06. JMHO

 

[gebhardt02]

At 500 yards or less, go with the 30-06. JMHO

I agree with this.

Geb

 

[Bill Larson]

the 30-06 will do what you said...500 yds. or less.However..... if the shot presents itself..at over 500 yds.....the 300 win. will help out on mistakes made in range estimation.Esp.out in open country where range is hard to estimate.

 

[smorgousford]

Thanks guys for the comments so far. I will be using my Swarovski range finder so I should be able to come up with the proper range. I just didn't know if the 2000 ft.lbs of energy (achieved with all the loads at 500 yards) would be enough for all the game animals I plan on hunting. Agreed that bullet construction and shot placement are of bigger concern.

That being said, would using the .300 Win Mag allow a greater variety of allowable shots (such as certain quartering or angle shots)?

 

[gadbmw]

The "greater variety of allowable shots" will be nearly identical at the distances you are suggesting. However in the end the win mag will potentially be able to make up for mistakes/errors made by the shooter/hunter, such as the elk taking a step as you pull the trigger. The win mag will always have an advantage, it has more case capacity. However, I agree with what others have said, the 30-06 will be perfect. It will certainly be more enjoyable to practice with which will make a larger difference in the "variety of allowable shots" than the 2-300 fps

 

[threetrees]

3006 - and then train to put the bullet into 'life' (=heart+lungs) under all hunting-conditions

 

[Curt1521]

Smorgousford, have you considered 300 wsm? Also I sent you a pm.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk

 

[WB300]

What is your sensitivity to recoil??? If neither caliber bothers you, .300WM sounds better (all things being equal).

 

[smorgousford]

Curt, I responded to your PM. Thanks.

My recoil tolerance is pretty good. I shoot a 50 BMG offhand, .45-70 lever action with 405gr Grizzly loads, and 12ga slugs from my semi-auto...

 

[Tackleberry]

Any caliber works if you have faith in gun bullet and shoot placement. I prefer a magnum caliber for hunting because as mentioned above it makes up for poor placement. If you don't think bad shots happen you best take up knitting! In the end the caliber is what you have the confidence in!!!

 

[Tx_Flyboy]

30-06.

Ditto to what previous posters have said about shot placement...it's more important than caliber.

The next thing you want to research is the minimum velocity at which the bullet expands. That is more important than "energy of the bullet at XXX yards".

Bullets like TTSX require a muzzle velocity of arond 1800fps to expand reliably...The minimum expansion velocity ( and shooter ability) is what should determine your maximum range, not bullet energy.

Consider this: a .44 magnum pistol will kill an elk dead at point blank range, however, a 30-06 will carry more energy than that past 1,000yards.

Oh, and magnum anything is not a practical caliber...

 

[Punisher29073]

Do you really need bacon on your cheeseburger? Heck yea! My first center fire was an '06. And it will remain in my gun closet forever.

Now for the fun, I picked up my first 300 this year. I do not enjoy shooting guns that cause me any discomfort. Mine has an Ops Inc brake and it is honestly like a 308 recoil wise. Ammo wise, not so much. It is expensive to shoot.

Good luck with your choice.

Ryan

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Why not do a 7mm Rem Mag? 30-06 recoil and energy with flatter trajectory.

 

[mdesign]

Either will do but shooting a rifle only a few times a year with no target shooting is not a recipe for success on shots approaching 500 yds.

 

[FN in MT]

I've got a novel idea...How about trying to get CLOSER? Shots to 500 yds on a rifle you intend to shoot very little. I agree with the above poster. Sounds like a formula for disaster to me.

 

[Curmudgeon]

I currently shoot both for hunting. I don't like punching holes in paper with the Win Mag, but when shooting at an animal I never feel it. As to the OP of shots on a quartering animal... That is something I do not and will not do, but that is just me. Also as far as myself, if I cannot get within 150-250 yards I have blown it. To me why it is called *hunting* instead of *shooting*. Just raised on the old school way of hunting I guess?

 

[Matt_3479]

The 30-06 will do everything you need inside 500 yards. Would i want a 30-06 for that 500 yard shot, no not really. a shot past 500 yards the 300 will also come in handy! with todays muzzle brakes they really are a dream to shoot! i personally suggest just going the route of the 300. win but if you want the 30-06 then dont let anyone talk you out of it!

 

[Deerhunter 28]

300


PSE EVO 60 Lbs.
Blacked out

 

[roggom]

Read a neat article in F&S last year about Tip for Elk hunting. Dick Ray has been a Guide for over 40 some years here is his take

“If you’re just out to kill an elk, you’ll want the *flattest-​shooting, hardest-hitting rifle you can buy. But if you want to hunt elk, to use skill and woodsmanship to get close, then a .30/06 or even a .270 with today’s hot loads is all you need."

 

[jasonk]

Lots of opinions here, but I'll give you the one that counts....mine

I've shot at least 2 elk and 2 deer at over 500 yards....all 4 in Colorado...about 8,000 ft. A moose too, but in WA state and no where near 8,000 ft.

So, here's my take. Yes, you can kill anything in North America with the 30-06, poke a hole through the lungs of anything with a quality bullet and it will die shortly thereafter.

HOWEVER. The 300 win mag will carry more energy, every single time. Sometime, in one of those animals, the wind will blow or the animal will take a step, something that might make the shot not be perfect. The extra "shock" of the 300 wm can make a difference and take a less than perfect shot and make it lethal. Trust me I know.

I have a 300 Weatherby that is light, not fun to shoot, but it gets shot a couple times at the range to verify it's on every year and then a couple times when killing stuff. You don't have to shoot your hunting rifle more than 5 times a year to be proficient with it if you train/shoot other guns more often that that.

So, in short, go with the 300 Win Mag. You won't feel the recoil when hunting, it will never be overkill and in the chance that something is less than perfect then it might just save your hunt.

 

[Nuke Man]

I was in the same boat last year. I bought a Tikka T3 .300 win mag and couldn't be happier. I was concerned with the recoil issue and was going to have a brake installed. Now I grew up shooting shotguns with slugs and didn't have a lot of time behind rifles. I decided I wanted to shoot the 300 a bit before I sent it off to be threaded for a brake. I'm glad I did, I would say recoil is comparable to a 3 inch slug shot out of a 12 gauge shotty. I decided to skip the brake, I really didn't want to deal with the increased volume and I will be hunting with a buddy so I didn't want to punish him either. I have been shooting a 308 with a brake for quite a few years now, and going to the 300 was an eye opener. It is a flat shooting SOB! I was looking for a great all purpose caliber and the 300 win mag was it for me. Both are good choices.

 

[Phil1]

Curt, I responded to your PM. Thanks.

My recoil tolerance is pretty good. I shoot a 50 BMG offhand, .45-70 lever action with 405gr Grizzly loads, and 12ga slugs from my semi-auto...

Both are excellent but since recoil isn't an issue go .300 Win Mag. A mag won't necessary make up for poor placement of the bullet but sometimes the perfect shot will never present itself.

 

[ArmyJerry]

I just built a 06 out of my 300wm, already have a 300 WSM, I really think the 300 WSM fits anything you would ever want to do.

 

[valkyries]

Another vote for the 30-06.

 

[RHunter]

I own both and I would use my 30-06 over the 300 WM. I hand load my ammo and I get 2900 FPS using 180 SGK's in my 30-06 so why would you need anything bigger?

 

[wilwith1l]

What are the perceived advantages of using the slower moving round?
I would say recoil is the biggest advantage. If you are only planning on firing a couple of times a year recoil should not be a factor.
IMHO it is easier to dope a faster moving bullet.
I would, and have, chosen the Win Mag in this head to head.

 

[kraigWY]

Recoil really isn't a factor in hunting, you don't notice it when hunting. However weight is a factor. You're going to spend a lot more time carrying then shooting. I want light. There is nothing in North America that that can't be handled by a '06.

I hunt in the mountains and I'll admit those mountains kick my butt. Not shooting, but packing rifles in these mountains. I like the -06, but I wont pack one. I like my Featherweight Model 70 in .270.

As well as the .270 works I'm sure the '06 will work also.

But this is the opinion of an guy who's gotten lazy and wimpy in his old age.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

On big dangerous game, I'd side with a Magnum, for big, non-dangerous game, a .30-'06 is definitely adequate at up to 500yd. Good bullet selection and placement ensures that the opportunity for a memorable shot does not get wasted. A standard sporter weight rifle with a 2MOA or better degree of accuracy should suffice for out to 300yd, but a good bit closer to 1MOA is needed for beyond that.

I think that one way to hedge the bet is to employ the '06's case capacity in a more efficient, flatter shooting chambering. I like the .280 Rem for this reason, but in case you don't handload, the .270 Win's ammo is usually found in the bigger outlets while the .280's usually isn't. The advantage of the smaller bullet diameter is better BC, which equates to less drop, less drift, and more retained energy at greater distances. Typically, a 140gr factory load in either 270 or 280 will be plenty adequate as well as flat and (usually) accurate out to 500, while eargeshplittinloudenboomin' and recoil will be far more tolerable than a 190 out of a 300WM.

Greg

 

[No1]

I like the 300WM myself and that is what I'd get.

 

[Jig Stick]

I have both calibers. At the ranges you are talking and the game you mention, you can't go wrong with either. Any difference in trajectory doesn't matter because you will have plenty of travel in your scope for come ups. Personally, I'd go with the 30.06. Why shoot a magnum if you don't have too. Availability of factory ammo I think will be better as well. Any backwoods Podunk hardware store will have 30.06 or .270 ammo in case you forget yours.

PS: a 270 would be awesome as well.

 

[OG10]

+1 30-06 Shot placement and quality bullets= full freezer.

 

[Painless300]

Get the 300WM and don't look back, the recoil is not bad and it nice knowing you got some extra gas in the tank incase you get the chance for a longer shot.

 

[InsidetheStorm]

A .300 can do anything a 3006 can do, but a 3006 can't do everything a .300 can. Go for the extra muscle, it's not like it adds 2 or 3 lbs to your rifle. If you're worried about recoil, get a good brake. If you cant put the bullet in the right spot with a .300, having a 3006 is not gonna help you with that. .300 all the way. Then again, I might be partial cuz my favorite rifle is a .300 =]

 

[user]

Great question. I was faced with the same question on the same calibers for my first trip to Alaska for moose n bear. I had the 06, but bought the 300WM. Really glad I did as shots With it were in the 600-800yd range at Roosevelt Elk, bear, boar and moose. 200 grain Barnes LRX hand loads and each was hammered. I guess I'm happy as I can always load the 300 down for really fast n flat shooting. Good luck on your trips.

 

[hahco]

.300 Win Mag

this

it will only be shot a few times a year

and this

are pretty much a guarantee that you won't shoot it well.

I think you should stick with .260 since it looks like you've already got one.

 

[HOGWILD]

300 Win Mag Accumark has enough down range power to keep from tracking and I would also take my 270 Lasermark with the rite bullet!

 

[Spartan67]

30/06..Its been killing things for 108 years! Must be doing
something right..

 

[Victor3N]

Recoil always matters, less is best. Even the magnums are not magic if you hit them in the wrong spot. My 30-06 has killed everything you are about to hunt.

 

[MarkCO]

Between 7mmMag, a 300Mag and a .30-06, I would choose the .30-06. For the game you are talking about, the difference is small and closing 50 yards more is better. That said, if you are going to build a rifle, look at the .338-06. It is a phenomenal cartridge that I switched to 10 years ago. 8 elk and 4 Mule deer in that time. Yes I have harvested more deer and elk with the .30-06, which now sits in the back of the safe, but I sold my 300Mag. The .338-06 pushes 210 to 225 at the same velocities the .30-06 pushes the 180s, and actually better energy than the .300WM.

 

[rw496]

Unless you're going on a safari the 30-06 will kill it. That being said, I just put my savage in the cabinet for my 300 winmag..why? Because you can!

 

[Bayou1535]

Great thread as I'm having the same problem in picking between the two for an upcoming plains game safari in RSA. No dangerous game just medium to large antelope. What I've noticed when these two are compared is that it is usually split down the middle with more age/experience leaning toward the 30'06. Not that 8-12 bucks a box more should make a difference but the 30'06 is easier on the wallet.

 

[79jeepcj5]

I own both and I would use my 30-06 over the 300 WM. I hand load my ammo and I get 2900 FPS using 180 SGK's in my 30-06 so why would you need anything bigger?

RHunter, mind sharing that load with us?

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

If I had it to do over again I'd not have a .308 and 300wm. The 30-06 will fill in for the .308 w/just an extra 1/2" of bolt throw and loaded to just under pressure with H4350 and 190-200grs bullets will preform almost as well as a 300wm. Load books for the 06 are de-rated do to many factor's. I've ran the 06 way over book and when it reached pressure stopped and, the amount of modern slow powder it would burn safely, in modern sticks was telling.

 

[Ledzep]

.30-06

Magnums are silly unless you're pushing closer to 800+ hunting.

 

[RHunter]

Here is one that is the most impressive that is extremely accurate coming out of my 28" Bartlein that has a chamber reamed with a PTG 30-06 Serengeti reamer

Lapua Brass
190 Berger VLD
.005 off the lands
57 grains of H4350
Federal LR Match Primers

Average Velocity 2944 FPS, SD of 4