Hunting & Fishing Do I really need a .300 Win Mag or will .30-06 be fine?

[TOP PREDATOR]

- I will be doing all my hunting between 9,000 and 12,500 feet. This gives me a great advantage with air density.
even steven between .3006 and 300 win

- I plan on hunting elk, moose, mountain goat and big horn sheep with this rifle
except maybe for moose i'd prefer the extra you get with the 300 win. if you can shoot well, even steven between the two

- This will be for hunting only (not target shooting) so it will only be shot a few times a year
from a cost standpoint, even steven

- I plan on only shooting factory loaded ammunition
from a cost and availability standpoint, .3006, even if only shooting a few times of year

- I plan to keep all shots at 500 yards or less
even steven.

seems for your parameters, .3006 will do you fine, be able to more easily find and afford. same goes for if you want to start reloading. for your objectives, the only advantage of the 300 win is on moose, but if you can consistantly hit 12" or less at 500Y, the .3006 will do you fine.

i blew the side out of a Pa. black bear with a .300 win mag 180gr, and tore up a few w. tails with 165 gr, after that i realized the .300 win mag is great for boosting your perceived testosterone levels, but other than that .3006 is probably the "biggest" i'd go in N America, except maybe for fully grown and fattened grizzlies or polar bear (if i had the chance to go after them).

plus if ever passing your rifle on to a younger / smaller frame / senior shooter, the .3006 managed recoil factory ammo is more palatable for them than the .300 win managed recoil ammo.

plinking bulk surplus ammo is easier to find in .3006 too

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I'd consider the application for more time than it takes to read this topic.

If the distance is such that 2MOA exceeds the size of the kill zone, then it doesn't matter what you're shooting, the shot is too long. If it doesn't, the adrenaline level will make any difference in perceived recoil a matter of mythology.

My .30-'06 Hunter is a Mod 70 with an (oooold) B&C composite sporter stock of fairly light mass, so I glibly call it a Featherweight. The stock has a comb line that rises, instead of dropping. This makes the line of recoil very similar to that of an AR, reducing muzzle jump, and very nearly eliminating any upward recoil component against the cheekbone. Recoil tends to be perceived as lessened, and I suspect this stock configuration strategy could make 300WM recoil less perceptible.

The only magnum I own is a .44 Mag win '94AE Trapper Carbine, so I guess that for my applications, the .30-'06 has proven adequate. Actually I also own a 7mm Rem Mag, but the trigger needs replacement. If I wanted to shoot a laser I also have a .25-'06, but I would not use it for heavy game.

If, after good consideration, the application demands you still ask the question; I'd either go with the 300WM, or pass up the application entirely. There's more to this aspect of the question than a simple comparison of terminal energy delivery, there's also a degree of wisdom being called for.

Greg

 

[justinbove]

I would think hard about 7mm Rem Mag. Best of both worlds and just a nice overall round. You can also take your 7mm Rem Mag rifle to other countries as well since it's not a round used in war or whatever.....It's not dangerous too because it can't assault anyone. Since the round isn't used in assault weapons. hehe

 

[Greg Langelius *]

.280 Rem vs 7mm Rem Mag; I also go with the '06 case capacity, for the same reasons.

Greg

 

[richidaho]

30-06 you can shoot this gun (depending on the gun) without flinching. I have a Benelli R1 in 30-06 its a 500 m or less gun but %96 of hunters will not shoot over 300 m's. I have a number of deer (3) and elk (5) kills with this gun and it will do the job. I shoot reloads speer 165g BTSP at 2770 f/s and it kills the game. Here is my photo of my G bear you don't need a mag.

Rich L

 

[runningun6mm]

I started hunting with a standard 30-06 went to college and figured I needed more gun. I was in the market for a .300 win mag and found a used .300 weatherby at a righteous price. I've killed elk, deer, and antelope with both. I shot the barrel out of the both the 300 weatherby and the 30-06 and they have both been rebarreled to other calibers. Now my go to elk gun is a 30-06 ackley. I have it stoked almost to 300 win mag balistics. Point is - either will do the job if you have faith in your skills and the rifle in your hands.

 

[BALLISTIC]

For less than 500M I'd take a 30-06. Over 500M I'd pick a different caliber.

 

[79jeepcj5]

Here is one that is the most impressive that is extremely accurate coming out of my 28" Bartlein that has a chamber reamed with a PTG 30-06 Serengeti reamer

Lapua Brass
190 Berger VLD
.005 off the lands
57 grains of H350
Federal LR Match Primers

Average Velocity 2944 FPS, SD of 4

I'm assuming you meant h4350?

The velocity you're getting seems awful fast. Hell, that's up there with the 300wm! I guess some increase in velocity is to be expected when sending them down a 28" barrel being pushed by that slow powder, but damn.

My load is pretty close to yours but my barrel's about 6" shorter. 56.5 gr/IMR 4350/180gr SGK getting them up to around 2700. I could run em hotter but that's where I hit a good node.

In the interest of not hijacking the thread, which I believe I may have already done (apologies), my vote's for the '06.

Matt

 

[RHunter]

I'm assuming you meant h4350?

The velocity you're getting seems awful fast. Hell, that's up there with the 300wm! I guess some increase in velocity is to be expected when sending them down a 28" barrel being pushed by that slow powder, but damn.

My load is pretty close to yours but my barrel's about 6" shorter. 56.5 gr/IMR 4350/180gr SGK getting them up to around 2700. I could run em hotter but that's where I hit a good node.

In the interest of not hijacking the thread, which I believe I may have already done (apologies), my vote's for the '06.

Matt

You are correct, it was 4350, I edited the post to reflect that.

All the speeds I quote are taken with a V2 Magnetto speed.

The barrel length has everything to do with that extra velocity. I can push 2900 FPS with 4-5 different powders but the 4350 is one of the best for accuracy but not the best load I have found, I get even better results with Vihtavuori N160 which is even slower than H350.

Using H4350 and 175 grain Lapua Scenar-L's my best load averages 3070 FPS. Try to get that out of a 308!

My best 208 Amax load is with Vihtavuori N160, I get great accuracy and 2850 FPS out of it. At that velocity, and the BC the 208 Amax has, at 1000 yards it still has over 1100 flbs of energy and is still traveling at 1450fps

There is absolutely no reason to buy a 300 WM when you can get these numbers out of a 30-06.. yet I am still amazed at how many people think a 30-06 is an antiquated piece of crap. Seriously, guys at the range snicker at me when I tell them what cartridge I am shooting.. then they see my targets and shut the hell up.

I think the people that don't think a 30-06 is all you need in North America are people that never owned a 30-06 OR never did any serious load development for one.

300 WM is not a bad cartridge per say, but personally I think the whole belted magnum case Idea was a bad one from the start. I see more head separations in 300 WM cases than any other because that belt is what determines the case depth in the chamber, not the case shoulder. If you have a chamber that is deeper compared to the dimensions of the brass, you over stretch your brass and if you don't know how to set your reloading dies to match that length, that constant push and pull on the case causes some nasty case failures. Not to mention the effects it has on accuracy. If you have excessive head space the brass has to fill when fired, your accuracy really goes to shit at long ranges.

I know there is a big fan club of 300WM shooters but I do believe many of their opinions are testosterone induced, and not based on solid first hand and empirical experience.

 

[45.308]

Personally if using a 308 diameter bullet it would not be a 300 mag. I used a 300 for quite a few years in the 70s but for the weight and recoil, it did not live up to the hype. I thought it gave no more performance from the bang end than my old 30.06, both with 180grs. Opinions vary.

I would think a Tikka T3 SS using Hornday Super Performance SST would give the performance with light weight I want.

If I was going with a magnum, in my experience I liked the 7 performance better than the 300. Days are old but I think the wound channel was worse or better with 7 than my 300 but every shot and every animal is different but my opinion is, mag go with 7 for the states. Now Alaska, its 338 for the same reasons, better or worse wound channel and flew the best to the animal in all hunting shots.

No need for large horse power to tip over game, hit the kill zone with a good bullet and the headstamp will mean nothing.

 

[RHunter]

No need for large horse power to tip over game, hit the kill zone with a good bullet and the headstamp will mean nothing.

What he said...

 

[BCBRAD]

I have both a 30-06 and a 300WM, I hunt with the 30-06 (Sako Finnlight), load is 54gr RL-17, 200gr Accubond for 2725fps, wound channels on large big game must be seen to be believed, no need for the extra recoil and gun weight to get the job done. I use the 300 for targets and long range ,its a Tikka /Tac with a TRG brake.

 

[slkzic]

You won't be let down by either under 500 yards. I've shot game using both calibers and quality factory bullets. 30/06 is probably the most popular hunting caliber here in Maine. Shot a 500 pound field dressed cow moose this year @ 100 chip shot for a Sako Finnlight 30/06 slinging 165 grain Federal Sierra Game Kings. 1 shot to the neck and it was dead before it hit the ground. This was about a half hour after my father dropped a nice 8 point whitetail that just happened to step in the road in front of us. One 165 grain Federal Sierra Game King to the neck out of his 30/06 dropped it stone dead. A few weeks prior my father dropped a 500 pound field dressed cow on my mothers tag using the same rifle and load at just under 300 yards with a neck shot again dead before it hit the ground. 2012 on my wife's bull tag I dropped a 1000 pound field dressed 54 1/2" bull at just under 420 yards with a GAP 300 Win Mag shooting 200 grain Accubonds at just over 2900 FPS. Shot it through the shoulder destroying both shoulders and found the perfectly mushroomed bullet under the hide. Would the 30/06 have done the same thing? more than likely.

 

[longshooter]

A few weeks prior my father dropped a 500 pound field dressed cow on my mothers tag using the same rifle and load at just under 300 yards with a neck shot again dead before it hit the ground. 2012 on my wife's bull tag I dropped a 1000 pound field dressed 54 1/2" bull

Uh,.....Duh!

 

[slkzic]

?

 

[longshooter]

As in...who's filling whos' tags...

 

[Bayou1535]

I believe in Main their moose tags are group tags

 

[jasonk]

I believe in Main their moose tags are group tags

Vermont too, some places in Canada, likely other states as well....

 

[longshooter]

How does that work?

 

[Graham]

Do I really need a .300 Win Mag or will .30-06 be fine?

.30-06 will be fine.

 

[wfjames22]

How does that work?

Google is your friend. I was curious as well, so I looked it up.

 

[longshooter]

I consulted with my friend, and this is what i found;

"Each permittee may select a subpermittee to hunt with them."

I think the key words might be "to hunt with them".

This is all I know at this point.

 

[longshooter]

People like to talk as if the 30-06 is somehow directly comparable to the 300 WM. This is just not the case.

The 300 will launch a 200 grain bullet at the same velocity the 06 will launch a 150 grainer. Of course, the 200 will appreciate a flatter trajectory because of it's better BC, and arrive on target with more authority because of it's higher sectional density, greater weight, and greater speed than the 150 at distance.

The 300 WM is the cartridge that most other cartridges are compared to. There is a reason for this.

Kapeesh?

 

[wfjames22]

"Other individuals may accompany the moose hunters, but only the permit holder or licensed subpermittee may hunt or kill the moose. The permittee must be present during the hunt or the subpermittee cannot hunt."

from:
https://www.maine.gov/ifw/licenses_permits/lotteries/moose/index.htm#subandalternatesub

 

[slkzic]

Correct I was the sub permittee on my wife's tag in 2012. My father was my mothers sub permittee on her tag 2013. I finally got pulled in 2013 and filled my own tag. You can also select an alternate sub permittee in case the sub permittee can't make the hunt. You just have to let fish and game know before the hunt.

 

[Bayou1535]

What would the drop be with the same rounds between the two?

 

[rope]

Either would be fine for the animals you listed. However where will you be hunting, and what are the large predators in the area? If you were successful, and just rang the dinner bell for a hungry grizz, what would you feel comfortable carrying?

Like 45.308 said up here a 338 is popular. My 338 gets to go on every trip. It use to be a 375 H&H, before I got my GAP 338 Win mag.

Good luck with your choice.