DO i really need a Kestrel?

[tna9001]

The only advantage the Kestrel has over the Garmin Foretex 701 is, it's helpful when you are new to "calibrate" your senses to what a particular wind speed feels like. Other than that it's a POS compared to the Foretex, the Kestral is hard to program and difficult to navigate the menus. The Foretex is so much better. Both Kestral and the Foretex 701 have Applied Ballistics.

Gathering "dope" isn't really that much of a thing anymore if you use a solver like Applied Ballistics and you are shooting a load in their Custom Drag Curve database, you've still got to verify the data but its dead nuts on.

If I were to do it again, I'd buy a cheap wind gauge like THIS and a Foretex 701.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Have had their CDC be off quite often.

Also had a lot of issues with .22lr on the foretrex

 

[Foul Mike]

Maybe a Spotter, [WORKS FOR ME], fire a wild one and dope as to what your spotter told you or spot for yourself if you can Someone you shoot with. , and trust. and he already did all of that Kestel shit. YOU fire what you think best at that first shot and see if it didn't come out alright or close.
Does take years of practice.

No machine made by man will get you right there every time. Trust the seat of your pants and see how it works out at any given range. Use all of your contraptions. and find out if you are a built in shooter or someone trying? That makes it more fun.

I would bet that someone like Frank can take that first shot just going off of his "feels" out on target right in the eye. and afterwords start playing with the toys. and having some serious fun to help others.

Something built in or did you learn that in a classroom?

 

[tna9001]

Have had their CDC be off quite often.

Also had a lot of issues with .22lr on the foretrex

Interesting, what did you see with the CDC's? The CDC's are determined by shooting the particular bullet then measuring the velocity every 100 yards. Assuming you've got accurate velocity out of your barrel and have your solver set up correctly what other variable is there?

What issues did you have with the Foretex? Does AB have a CDC for .22lr?

 

[Dthomas3523]

Interesting, what did you see with the CDC's? The CDC's are determined by shooting the particular bullet then measuring the velocity every 100 yards. Assuming you've got accurate velocity out of your barrel and have your solver set up correctly what other variable is there?

What issues did you have with the Foretex? Does AB have a CDC for .22lr?

Lot to lot variance on bullets. The cdc are usually within .3 at distance. But so are g1 and g7 provided by most reputable bullet makers. You’re also putting a lot of faith that the formulas used by any ballistic software are perfect. If we had this science nailed down, all solvers would give the same output. The algorithms haven’t been perfected in any of them yet.

I almost never end up using the actual chronographed velocity for cdc.

There’s many, many variables you aren’t considering.

As far as the foretrex .22, it would give weird solutions like 6mil for 100yds. And then with the same data give the correct 2mil or so. It was ridiculously buggy. Garmin said call AB and AB said call garmin. ?‍?‍

 

[Dthomas3523]

Maybe a Spotter, [WORKS FOR ME], fire a wild one and dope as to what your spotter told you or spot for yourself if you can Someone you shoot with. , and trust. and he already did all of that Kestel shit. YOU fire what you think best at that first shot and see if it didn't come out alright or close.
Does take years of practice.

No machine made by man will get you right there every time. Trust the seat of your pants and see how it works out at any given range. Use all of your contraptions. and find out if you are a built in shooter or someone trying? That makes it more fun.

I would bet that someone like Frank can take that first shot just going off of his "feels" out on target right in the eye. and afterwords start playing with the toys. and having some serious fun to help others.

Something built in or did you learn that in a classroom?

...........yikes.

 

[tna9001]

Lot to lot variance on bullets. The cdc are usually within .3 at distance. But so are g1 and g7 provided by most reputable bullet makers. You’re also putting a lot of faith that the formulas used by any ballistic software are perfect. If we had this science nailed down, all solvers would give the same output. The algorithms haven’t been perfected in any of them yet.

I almost never end up using the actual chronographed velocity for cdc.

There’s many, many variables you aren’t considering.

As far as the foretrex .22, it would give weird solutions like 6mil for 100yds. And then with the same data give the correct 2mil or so. It was ridiculously buggy. Garmin said call AB and AB said call garmin. ?‍?‍

Gotcha, I've only used AB on two rifles, an RPR with an LRI barrel, and an AIAX, AB was right on out to 1,300 yards with both. It's entirely possible I didn't notice and variance due to my limitations, at 1000 yards in favorable conditions, I'm a 1MOA shooter on a good day.

Thas weird about the.22, AB didn't have a solution?

 

[PAYDIRT]

Just look over someone's shoulder at their kestrel, they usually hold it up for everyone to see.

 

[Fig]

Cheater

 

[Steel head]

So, a few things I still have after trying most every toy and gadget possible, literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of gear. Much of it on a revolving door basis if I didn’t like it or was nuetral on it:

Kestrel 5700 elite
Swaro SLC 15x56 binos
AI-AT rifle

I have plenty of other stuff currently, but those are the three items that have consistently stayed with me.

No cigars?
Coffee?
Croissants?
Tactical binkie?
Reserve TP?
Shovel to bury dead hookers?

 

[Dthomas3523]

No cigars?
Coffee?
Croissants?
Tactical binkie?
Reserve TP?
Shovel to bury dead hookers?

don’t smoke
French Vanilla cappuccino you peasant
Yes
No
Baby wipes only for this B hole
Only fools bury them

 

[Steel head]

don’t smoke
French Vanilla cappuccino you peasant
Yes
No
Baby wipes only for this B hole
Only fools bury them

Lol
The french vanilla cappuccino is not surprising!

 

[Dthomas3523]

Lol
The french vanilla cappuccino is not surprising!

Try it. That shit is amazing. Pinky out when you drink it.

 

[Steel head]

Ok
Upon further review the kestrel is pretty slick.

I got my 3 main loads trued up pretty easily and am about to see how the 5700 predicts beyond super sonic

 

[Dthomas3523]

Let’s just go ahead and make the answer “yes.”

If only to practice reading wind. There are more positives than negatives to owning a kestrel if you can afford it.

 

[Steel head]

Let’s just go ahead and make the answer “yes.”

If only to practice reading wind. There are more positives than negatives to owning a kestrel if you can afford it.

Well today wind was the same as always.
But trueing it was super simple with no need to get creative with speed/BC.
Getting solutions was quick and easy with no need to update environmentals on phone app.

I’ll probably upgrade to elite as the range card and more gun profiles will be nice.

 

[DairyDictator]

So, a few things I still have after trying most every toy and gadget possible, literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of gear. Much of it on a revolving door basis if I didn’t like it or was nuetral on it:

Kestrel 5700 elite
Swaro SLC 15x56 binos
AI-AT rifle

I have plenty of other stuff currently, but those are the three items that have consistently stayed with me.

^This.

I used to fumble around with my phone and try to get weather data from someone with a kestrel because I didn't want to cough up the money for the applied ballistics app that takes data from a weather station. I bought a 5700 Elite and it was a night and day difference. The custom curve on the berger hybrid is spot on, and it's so much easier to fill out a target card with the kestrel than trying to interpolate from tables or screw around with my phone at ranges with no service.

It can be done without one, but having the kestrel is a whole lot easier. It won't make your wind call for you though.

 

[alfmoonspace]

Kestrel helps with data at your location. It doesn't mean that the target or anything in between will be the same. Most especially with wind.

At matches/range it is relatively useful to use (when I get a 5700, I might change my stance) but at longer distances and ever changing dips in environments - I see it as another potential variable that can get in your head to get a proper hit.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Kestrel helps with data at your location. It doesn't mean that the target or anything in between will be the same. Most especially with wind.

At matches/range it is relatively useful to use (when I get a 5700, I might change my stance) but at longer distances and ever changing dips in environments - I see it as another potential variable that can get in your head to get a proper hit.

Considering without lidar, wind speed at shooter location is all we can gather anyway, knowing the exact speed at the only place we can is a huge leg up. Especially considering the first third is the most influential wind will be during time of flight (ELR distances that starts changing a bit).

If someone is using it improperly and not paying attention to things down range.....well, that’s using your tools improperly.

https://kestrelinstruments.com/mwdownloads/download/link/id/100/

 

[Lunchbox27]

I used the AB app on my phone for years. It worked just fine for $20. Then my phone died while at the range. I picked up a 5700 and love it, but I also now have my dope recorded on paper for all rifles.

With as much as I spend on reloading components, barrels, optics, etc... a Kestrel is well worth the $, and damn good piece of equipment. That AND my Leica 2700.

 

[alfmoonspace]

I used the AB app on my phone for years. It worked just fine for $20. Then my phone died while at the range. I picked up a 5700 and love it, but I also now have my dope recorded on paper for all rifles.

That’s funny - my kestrel died last time I was out and my phone kept on chugging.

 

[Ratchette]

I agree with most above - not necessary at all, but I think it helps get the shooter more hits when wind is causing misses.

I started shooting PRS last year with a 6.5 Creedmoor. I shot in 4 matches using the Shooter app and could never convince myself that retrieving mil calls from the Kestrel was easier than the Shooter app. As my skills slowly improved, becoming more confident in my positions and holds, I recognized that utilizing the wind calls / mil adjustments my squad mates were calling out didn't work for me. I would have to calibrate myself each stage, which cost me impacts. They were shooting 6 Dashers, and I was shooting slow 6.5 Creedmoor handloads. I finally figured out that my calls needed to be 1.5+x theirs.

Afterwards, I entered wind speed retrieved from weather sites into the Shooter app, and it got me closer, but it was costing me hits.

I broke down and bought the Kestrel 5700 last month but haven't been to a match yet. I still prefer the interface of the Shooter app, but lacking that wind data was costing me hits.

 

[Steel head]

Upgraded my sportsman to elite.
The extra profiles is nice.
Will play with DSF tomorrow.
The target card/target memory alone make it worth the $$$$
I plugged in all my common steel targets and can quickly scroll them and my 7mm and 260 easily.
Yea,,,,this is pretty slick and faster than the phone app

 

[alfmoonspace]

Upgraded my sportsman to elite.
The extra profiles is nice.
Will play with DSF tomorrow.
The target card/target memory alone make it worth the $$$$
I plugged in all my common steel targets and can quickly scroll them and my 7mm and 260 easily.
Yea,,,,this is pretty slick and faster than the phone app

Did you need to purchase the dongle for the upgrade or did it connect to a computer via Bluetooth?

 

[Steel head]

Did you need to purchase the dongle for the upgrade or it connect to a computer via Bluetooth?

Yes

 

[schleeb]

New to this Long range shooting.
Trying to understand all this weather related stuff, ballistics, etc.
Mr Lowlight is talking about Weaponized math.
Does a new shooter really need a Kestrel besides?
Thanks

I see you've gotten a bunch of replies on this, but I'll give you my 2 cents worth as an F-Class shooter... Our range has lots of flags so you can really see what the wind is doing at different distances. (four flags on each side, over 1000 yds.) The problem I've had is our range is ALWAYS windy, predominately from the left to right and can vary considerably over short periods of time. Early on, I had real issues getting my windage setting adjusted with the few allotted "practice shots". At times, I'd start the shots, for record, not even having gotten a practice shot anywhere on the target. It was very frustrating. Then, one day I found a very nice Kestrel at a yard sale for $10 and figured what the heck. Took it to the range the next time out and checked the wind speed/direction. What I can say, is that it at least gives you a frame of reference in a concrete sense... i.e. miles per hour... Keep in mind though, that it only applies to where you are standing. For me, flags and the angle they are hanging at, was way to nebulous for me to adjust my scope for a cross wind, unless I have a "number" to relate to it. The wind speed measurement gives you this.

One of my pet peeves is how difficult it is to find any data on the effect of cross wind on the particular bullet you use. I've e-mailed bullet makers to ask how much drift there is in "inches per miles per hour of wind at 1000 yards" for example. I've yet to receive a reply, which to me is a little disingenuous since they certainly must have a pretty good idea. Bullet drop vs. distance, I get. Wind drift is another story. So, I've made a dope sheet for 90 deg crosswind speed vs bullet drift using my bullets, my load and I relate it to the Kestrel wind speed reading. Its not the end all solution but it aid in, at least, getting you on the target without firing a half a box of ammo. I pretty much have it etched into my mind now so I can just take a preliminary wind reading, prior to shooting, and dial my wind setting into my scope.

 

[morganlamprecht]

A ballistic app tells you what the drift is for your bullet in inches/mils/moa/whatever...u can adjust the wind values and look once you have your BC trued up

the problem is the wind isn’t constant or consistent... so even tho you know what the “theoretical” drift should be, it won’t always match...there are even apps u can put in various wind zones, but how accurately can u measure them? Unless you’re rockin real time lidar, you’re just taking single points of reference and making the best guess

the range/terrain conditions you shoot in will also skew how accurate your inputs are

the red circle below is inches...you can adjust the wind values from the first pic to 1 mph for the entire 0-1000 yds and it’ll tell you how much it drifts @ any range for that 1mph

 

[Steel head]

I've e-mailed bullet makers to ask how much drift there is in "inches per miles per hour of wind at 1000 yards

That is a pretty unreasonable request , far too many variables to give even a close answer.
You need to be the wind computer with the previous dope and tools at your disposal because YOU are the one with the most current information.

I don’t shoot at manicured ranges with flags but at my locations I take note of wind conditions each time there and note changes, trends and markers.

the problem is the wind isn’t constant or consistent...

 

[Newenglandwood]

Product Description

Product Description | Camera Land NY

cameralandny.com

 

[Jcrenfroe]

If I have Hornady ballistic App can I get away with basic kestrel meter?

 

[Steel head]

If I have Hornady ballistic App can I get away with basic kestrel meter?

Yea.
I ran the standard 5700 for a few shooting trips and it was good.
I always wished the Hornandy app supported the kestrel Drop.

 

[Colorsblend09]

good read, I am in the same boat as the OP. I think ill wait and just shoot for now. *edit and use Strelok

 

[jarredsc]

Not necessarily I use StrelokPro on my phone and it has worked well out to 1200 with first round hits you can always pick up a cheap wind metres that you can put wind values into your app and then get a holdover works well

 

[Steel head]

The more I use mine the more I kick myself for not getting one earlier.

My kestrel gave my a come up and wind today that helped me best my personal distance by another 300+ yards easily.

 

[KRUGA]

Question for the guys with hands on experience without the science behind it, setting up the kestrel for best "accuracy" on the solution (yes real world dope would be ideal).........spin drift On or Off? Any other settings to rather have OFF foe best results?

I read alot about guys putting W-1 on zero (to cancel out AJ) and use W-2 only, yes i know its only wind at shooter position i get that. But lets say you are in a Long range match, kestrel setup with wind vane on a tripod 5m away feeding live enviromentals to AB app on phone next to me, it will then show W-1 and W-2 as it changes thus, "activating" AJ again with W-1. Does this affect the solution (in a negative way) even if i would only use the W-2 for a wind data point at shooter or did it already add the AJ to the solution? Shooting from 600m to 2000m. Or is there a way to stop it from giving the W-1 whike still giving live feed on W-2...if that makes sense?

Thanks

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Question for the guys with hands on experience without the science behind it, setting up the kestrel for best "accuracy" on the solution (yes real world dope would be ideal).........spin drift On or Off? Any other settings to rather have OFF foe best results?

I read alot about guys putting W-1 on zero (to cancel out AJ) and use W-2 only, yes i know its only wind at shooter position i get that. But lets say you are in a Long range match, kestrel setup with wind vane on a tripod 5m away feeding live enviromentals to AB app on phone next to me, it will then show W-1 and W-2 as it changes thus, "activating" AJ again with W-1. Does this affect the solution (in a negative way) even if i would only use the W-2 for a wind data point at shooter or did it already add the AJ to the solution? Shooting from 600m to 2000m. Or is there a way to stop it from giving the W-1 whike still giving live feed on W-2...if that makes sense?

Thanks

All depends on how you set the software and rifle up. If say you're in between clicks to the left or you decide to set your zero on click left (with RH barrel), then you can leave spin drift off. I would do the same if for whatever reason you are a click or between clicks to the right of your POA with your 100yd zero, since you're going to be not perfect regardless, I will adjust the optic so the offset is to the left for a RH barrel, and then turn off spin drift.

If you're able to get your zero dead nuts, leave spin drift on.

You'll want to run you aerodynamic jump the same way you ran it when you zero'd the rifle. If you zero the rifle with wind 1 set to zero, then keep using wind 1 at zero. If you took a wind reading at shooter when you zero'd the rifle, then use wind 1.

 

[KRUGA]

All depends on how you set the software and rifle up. If say you're in between clicks to the left or you decide to set your zero on click left (with RH barrel), then you can leave spin drift off. I would do the same if for whatever reason you are a click or between clicks to the right of your POA with your 100yd zero, since you're going to be not perfect regardless, I will adjust the optic so the offset is to the left for a RH barrel, and then turn off spin drift.

If you're able to get your zero dead nuts, leave spin drift on.

You'll want to run you aerodynamic jump the same way you ran it when you zero'd the rifle. If you zero the rifle with wind 1 set to zero, then keep using wind 1 at zero. If you took a wind reading at shooter when you zero'd the rifle, then use wind 1.

Thanks for the info. Thing is if you leave the kestrel with the vane on a tripod away from you and you use the app to check the live feed, it shows you W1 and W2 as it changes in real time with the wind (on phone next to me while shooting). So do i then just ignore the W1 on the app and only look at W2 or will it have already started adding W1 (AJ) to the solution?As i cant set and forget the kestrel to zero W1value while on live weather monitoring on the tripod? And i obviously cant get up and go to the kestrel to keep manually checking wind as that defeats the purpose of it on the tripod with the Vane.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Thanks for the info. Thing is if you leave the kestrel with the vane on a tripod away from you and you use the app to check the live feed, it shows you W1 and W2 as it changes in real time with the wind (on phone next to me while shooting). So do i then just ignore the W1 on the app and only look at W2 or will it have already started adding W1 (AJ) to the solution?As i cant set and forget the kestrel to zero W1value while on live weather monitoring on the tripod? And i obviously cant get up and go to the kestrel to keep manually checking wind as that defeats the purpose of it on the tripod with the Vane.

I'd have to double check. I'm a bit rusty on my kestrel lately.

But, as far as I remember, if W1 has any wind value, it will add AJ. So, you'd need to take the wind reading you're getting live, and then zero W1. You can test this yourself. See if your elevation changes from the live reading when you stop take the live reading and zero out W1.

I almost never use the app, so I'm not completely sure.

Unless Kestrel has updated software and given the ability to turn AJ off in the settings.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

If I'm using the vane to get a firing solution, I just set it in the vane and let it do a capture.....then remove the kestrel and do whatever I need to with it after. For me personally, I don't just leave the kestrel in the vane feeding live info unless I just want to know what the wind is doing and I'm not using it for solutions.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Thanks for the info. Thing is if you leave the kestrel with the vane on a tripod away from you and you use the app to check the live feed, it shows you W1 and W2 as it changes in real time with the wind (on phone next to me while shooting). So do i then just ignore the W1 on the app and only look at W2 or will it have already started adding W1 (AJ) to the solution?As i cant set and forget the kestrel to zero W1value while on live weather monitoring on the tripod? And i obviously cant get up and go to the kestrel to keep manually checking wind as that defeats the purpose of it on the tripod with the Vane.

If I were you and I was leaving it in the vane the whole time, I'd have it in the vane next to me while I'm zero'ing the rifle. Then you zero'd the rifle with AJ on with W1 and W2 active. Slip the turret to the amount of AJ the software calls for at the time. I.E. you zero rifle dead nuts, but software says you have .2 AJ....you slip the turret to .2 down.

Then just leave it in the vane and use W1 and W2 and not worry about it.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

 

[KRUGA]

I'd have to double check. I'm a bit rusty on my kestrel lately.

But, as far as I remember, if W1 has any wind value, it will add AJ. So, you'd need to take the wind reading you're getting live, and then zero W1. You can test this yourself. See if your elevation changes from the live reading when you stop take the live reading and zero out W1.

I almost never use the app, so I'm not completely sure.

Unless Kestrel has updated software and given the ability to turn AJ off in the settings.

Thanks again. I found a aritcle now saying you can disable AJ since some update. Thanks for the help.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Thanks again. I found a aritcle now saying you can disable AJ since some update. Thanks for the help.

No prob. Personally, I'll be checking AJ when I zero my rifle/s. If there's enough wind that it's factoring in some AJ, I'll put that into the turret at the time. Then I don't have to worry with turning it on and off and such.

Same thing with spin drift. If I have a dead nuts windage zero, I'll leave it on. If I don't, I'll make sure the offset is to the opposite side of barrel twist and turn it off.

Granted, if you're shooting prs distances and target sizes, a lot of this is going to be lost in the noise. But no reason to not have as precise a firing solution as possible.

 

[TravisLH]

Thought I’d add my 2 cents, I shot bench and never had a wind meter. Generally there was always an official wind call then you made adjustments based on what we were seeing at the flags. That was in the mid 90s, later I did get a kestrel but was a very old model that just gave humidity/temp and wind speed/direction and it was a huge benifit even long ago when we had actual calculators and not apps/conputers. Decided a few days ago to up the kestrel to a 5700 elite a few days ago so it will sinc up with my other devices and balistic software so I need fewer items to get a shooting solution.

 

[MuleyTime]

i’ll preface this answer by stating I’ve been in this game a long time. I got burned out of PRS and not shooting matches but I still like to shoot. I had a Kestral back in the day and sold it based on the fact that Shooter was/is doing everything I need.

Keep in mind you still have to true your shit no matter the gadget.

So I think it really boils down to the wind and bonus features. I still use Shooter today with a Weather Flow meter. Although I have a gut feeling the wind is not as accurate as a Kestrel.

With all of that said, I am thinking of buying another kestrel because of all the othe “bonus” features it provides.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

With a kestrel and cdm you really don't have to true your shit. It's that good. But people will regurgitate old lies that they heard.

 

[FimRire RongLifle]

I dont use a kestrel currently, i use a weathermeter wind meter in the old round body kestrel vane which comes cheap these days.. AB on the phone can use that. I also have a garmin tactic 6 linked to my Sig binocs again with AB. I think the watch can link to both a kestrel and the binocs at the same time which is a motivation to eventually get one. My setup lacks getting me DA readings as a caveat inless i calc it which is a second motivation to eventually get one.

For multiple wind fields in ELR some use the PC AB software kit others have a ton of spreadsheets they run on some just use kestrels with a mutitude of devices foretrex tactix multiple kestrels etc.

I think a kestrel is a good one stop shop in comparison to the above and continues to work with the above examples, amoung others.

 

[hero's machine]

The kestrel with ab is the difference in 90+% first round hit probability vs watch the shot and correct.

 

[Fig]

I need to learn to work mine better.

 

[FredHammer]

Does a Kestrel gather atmospherics without need of a signal? That would be a big motivator for me to buy one in case I was somewhere without cell service.

I also wonder why 4DOF isn't offered in the EliteX?