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Precision Rifle Gear Do I really NEED a Kestrel?
- Thread starter Slowbalt
- Start date
Nothing really except that it’s more rugged than a phone and easy to carry a spare AA battery in the woods. I’d say for the same reasons people carry Garmins handheld GPS vs using their phones.
The 5700 elite does “target card” I believe is what it’s called.
You’re able to enter the targets into the kestrel for each stage before the match if the match director issues the info before the match. Then when your at the match you update direction, and environmentals and it spits out your dope for the stage.
Other benefit is the kestrel can link to range finders for dope.
Other than that I don’t think you will see much benefit. I also ran strelok before my kestrel and still do sometimes.
You’re able to enter the targets into the kestrel for each stage before the match if the match director issues the info before the match. Then when your at the match you update direction, and environmentals and it spits out your dope for the stage.
Other benefit is the kestrel can link to range finders for dope.
Other than that I don’t think you will see much benefit. I also ran strelok before my kestrel and still do sometimes.
Convenience. Easier to see than a cell phone screen in lighting extremes. AA Battery is simple to replace and fire it back up. Form factor. The snake game on it.
I started out years ago using just my phone app and pulling weather from the closest weather station. That worked for a while but I got tired of relying on my phone for that data, making sure my phone didn’t die mid day, making sure my phone didn’t get wet, etc.
Kestrel is just a one stop shop and extremely convenient. It does a lot more that just spit out basic dope data as well. If you take their free classes before buying one, you could see all the features and determine if you’d want one. It’s kinda crazy what it can actually do.
Kestrel is just a one stop shop and extremely convenient. It does a lot more that just spit out basic dope data as well. If you take their free classes before buying one, you could see all the features and determine if you’d want one. It’s kinda crazy what it can actually do.
It all depends on what you "already do". What is a typical shooting session for you?
Since you asked the question, you believe you are missing something. So what would like to do that you are not currently able to do.
For many years I too shot with apps. They work. Then Christmas came and I got a Kestrel. I realized how deficient the apps really are.
Since you asked the question, you believe you are missing something. So what would like to do that you are not currently able to do.
For many years I too shot with apps. They work. Then Christmas came and I got a Kestrel. I realized how deficient the apps really are.
Well, I'll be honest, apart from toying around with it (strelok) I haven't shot it yet.
I just got my rifle and am looking into load development. Goal being of shooting casual PRS a couple times a year.
I simply have this feeling (just good marketing?) that what I've got isn't enough since everyone and their moms use a Kestrel. I am however weary of spending a grand (Canadian) on a device that would not significantly improve my capabilities.
I just got my rifle and am looking into load development. Goal being of shooting casual PRS a couple times a year.
I simply have this feeling (just good marketing?) that what I've got isn't enough since everyone and their moms use a Kestrel. I am however weary of spending a grand (Canadian) on a device that would not significantly improve my capabilities.
I recently bought the Kestrel 5700 Ballistic within the past couple months. This model uses the same Applied Ballistics software that the 'Elite' unit uses, but lacks some of the features that PRS type competition & ELR type shooters use. I have been very happy / impressed with this unit.
I bought my Kestral strictly for hunting season--so I didnt have to deal with phone batteries in sub 0°F weather
If it were not for that, a simple weather meter and phone combo work great
I still use my phone AB app quite a bit, especially for lots of targets. Its much easier/faster to get data than on the kestral
If it were not for that, a simple weather meter and phone combo work great
I still use my phone AB app quite a bit, especially for lots of targets. Its much easier/faster to get data than on the kestral
If you are serious about shooting, then yes. There is not always cell signal, phones die fast and will brick being overheated in the sun. Getting true environmental data in conjunction with AB custom curves is worth every penny.
Target card is a huge force multiplier once you learn how to use it with direction of fire.
Another thing is being able to reverse engineer your wind speed and direction for future solutions. Can do that with other solvers it's just stupid easy on kestral.
Target card is a huge force multiplier once you learn how to use it with direction of fire.
Another thing is being able to reverse engineer your wind speed and direction for future solutions. Can do that with other solvers it's just stupid easy on kestral.
You can upgrade it if you want. Go to Kestral website it was like 180 last time I looked. Being able to have 30 gun profiles and target card is def worth it if you shoot alot of guns or matches.
I’m looking to buy a Kestrel as well. Which one? I can get a 5700 standard model with link but no AP or 4DOF for $381 before tax/ship or a 5700 with 4DOF for $450 before tax/ship. Those decent prices? I’m currently using 4DOF so the compatibility seems like a no brainer but worth the extra coin?
Where are the free classes? I assume online on Kestrals website. I bought one several years ago when GAP ran their close out special on the Bushnell Conx rangefinder and Kestral Sportsman combo. While I have used the rangefinder a great deal I have just started trying to learn how to use the Kestral in the last 6 or 8 months. Last fall I tried it out during hunting season for the first time and found having it linked to the rangefinder and getting dope adjustments very easy. I ended up using it to take 2 does. I recently did the software upgrade to the 5700 Elite but have not had the chance to try it out yet. I still use Strelok Pro some because it has the factory ammo and some bullets that the Kestral app and Applied Balistics don't have. I am currently trying to find out if it possible to sync the Kestral with Strelok Pro.
Almost always posted on their social media pages with a link. This one was posted yesterday
Attachments
Or used. I believe there was a non elite model that went for $350 in the classifieds recently. Deals are out there. Price of the 1000 + Apps, you’re almost there and if you quit it’s easier to sell than an app.
You dont "need" anything. Not even a magazine, you can single feed. You dont need a muzzle brake, just be a man and learn recoil. You dont need a tripod.
all these things are nice to have and make life easier. Thats what its about.
all these things are nice to have and make life easier. Thats what its about.
I disagree. . . snacks. . . I need snacks. . . water. . . beer. . . good whiskey. . . I got a long list.
The Kestrel 1000 is $90, the cell phone pouch is $10, and the apps I mentioned are free.
So my suggestion is $100 for the PRS Dabbler.
-Stan
Custom drag models, inputting all your atmospheric data, latitude, target direction, wind direction, inclination, aerodynamic jump, etc without having to manually input it all…
Also has other calculators like target speed, quick drop, etc.
Why do you suppose everyone here is such a fan?
Last Sunday I shot a 500-1600yd course of animal shaped targets from prairie dogs to a life size bison. 20-30mph variable gusting winds. It was a riot, but anyway I had my FX chrono sitting next to the gun and between using that app, and using the shit out of the 4DOF I killed the battery on my phone. I also took wind speed from a shooter that was running a Kestrel. I was really trying to dodge the Kestrel price, but now I think it's as handy, if not more than a chrono, spotting scope, any other shooting aid, etc. So, I see the value 
Well...... a kestrel can't be tracked if "someone" is hunting you
Molon labe
Molon labe
I am a bit leery of the 2003 Nokia like display screen and a whole bunch of buttons that might have assigned multiple functions...
It was $190 forever but recently increased to $300. I have the 5700 Sportsman and does what I need it to; I just shoot casually and no competition. If I had it to do over , though, I'd go ahead and get the Elite. I got my Sportsman back when Doug at CameraLand had a pile of them he was selling for $250.
Been there, done that. Sooner or later you end up with the Kestrel Elite and realize along the way you could have just saved your time and money.
I feel there is an argument for using the phone apps with stand alone weather meters and such. It does provide the opportunity to learn more about your ballistics and what inputs matter most. Jumping straight to the Kestrel Elite is actually such a cheat that all the mental exercises you miss could have provided learning opportunities along the way.
As a PRS Dabbler myself, and understanding the OPs context to be similar, my recommendation remains unchanged.
Of course, if one becomes more than a dabbler, upgrades will likely be necessary at some point.
Also, I don’t believe in buy once / cry once as it robs the shooter of the journey.
-Stan
I did the exact same thing. Sold my 4500 and bought the sportsman 5700 from Doug. Then upgraded it for an elite for 450 bucks. It's like a sleeper kestrel. People think your poor but it's got a v12 inside.
Yea it's n
Yea it's not like a new prs shooter has enough cards stacked against them. Let's make gear another thing they have to fight when they should be Learning what's actually important......
So, the Elite isn't a hardware thing, it's just a software upgrade that makes it compute faster for ELR?
Correct. Elite unlocks features you don't get in the regular AB Kestral.
My 5700 Elite says "sportsman" on the front. Software upgrade makes it elite.
There is a 5700X Elite model that has a faster processor and is designed for the military for future proofing updates. I don't know that its worth the price over the regular 5700 Elite.
I mean guys still shoot with dope cards calling wind by hand, the Kestrel is a bit of a luxury item.
However - I run the 5700 Elite with Sig binoculars - the ability to laser a target and have it show corrections in the HUD for the spotter is worth every penny to me.
We do a lot of reduced size shooting with .22s and it’s kind of shocking how easy the technology makes it - laser a soda can at say 132 yards, dial elevation, hold wind, first round impact if you do your part.
However - I run the 5700 Elite with Sig binoculars - the ability to laser a target and have it show corrections in the HUD for the spotter is worth every penny to me.
We do a lot of reduced size shooting with .22s and it’s kind of shocking how easy the technology makes it - laser a soda can at say 132 yards, dial elevation, hold wind, first round impact if you do your part.
Temperature, barometric pressure, wind speed, and humidity*. Then run 4DoF on your phone. That's still what I do. I have the 5700 4DoF Kestrel and have used it maybe 5 times for solutions. Easier to navigate the phone app for what I do.
* Humidity most of the time you can just put "50%" in the solver and call it good. I wouldn't pay a significant upcharge for a meter that had humidity vs. one that didn't. Baro and temp are the big ones, and wind speed if you don't know what various winds feel like yet.
* Humidity most of the time you can just put "50%" in the solver and call it good. I wouldn't pay a significant upcharge for a meter that had humidity vs. one that didn't. Baro and temp are the big ones, and wind speed if you don't know what various winds feel like yet.
Recommend the 5700. It does all your barometric and ballistics in a single unit, you can get direction of fire and cane tune/ true any settings you need. I also really like their temp tables and MV change over temp fixed ratio (instead of temp tables). and yeah I guess it reads winds too. Combine that with AB the king of ballistic engines and you have a baddas unit.
It also pairs very well with an sig 5k which feeds range directly and will pull the kestrel ballistics and display it.
It also pairs very well with an sig 5k which feeds range directly and will pull the kestrel ballistics and display it.
How do you get that without cell service? Or with a dead phone? Are you updating it every hour? ect.
A kestral takes all the logistical and connectivity issues out of it.
The Okie JTAC Team runs the Hornady 4DOF on their phone along with a Kestrel. I do the same along with a 4DOF Kestrel. I just update the app with the Kestrel via BT throughout the day, mandatory for me before long range stages, and grab wind values every stage with the Kestrel. Dead phone battery is a moot point how I run my gear because my profiles are on my Kestrel also in addition to carrying a battery pack for my phone and batteries for my kestrel.
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I just realized I was thinking Elite vs Elite X. The processor being the difference.
Making up cards and calling wind is great practice and learning opportunity for beginners learning ballistics IMO. You never know when you might have to do it old school.
I've done this as well. 4DOF is probably the best app for doing this. Until a guy spends a lot of time learning how to navigate the Kestrel folders and options it can be much easier to use something on the phone. I've not used the 4DOF Kestrel however so it could be substantially different to navigate than the AB version.
They teach a police SWAT sniper course at a range by me… first thing they do on day 1 is take away everyone’s Kestrels and rangefinders. By day 4, most of the students are making good hits at unknown distances using reticles for ranging and basic tree / bush / grass observation for wind.
Fuck it. 5700 Elite with windvane bundle off SH classifieds/PX enroute.
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Virtually all swat encounters are inside of 100 yards. Those classes are also extremely basic and rudimentary. The idea that you can take a green shooter and in one week turn them into a Police sniper is the biggest fucking joke. About as responsible as giving a toddler a machine gun. Big targets and close distances with known target size is easy. You can teach anyone to do that in 10 minutes.
Comparing long range precision shooting to that type of shooting, has almost nothing in common.
Try to get a first round hit on a small target far away where you don't have a defined size you can mil. Yea there is a reason hit percentages went up dramatically once people starting lasing their targets and stopped using paper dope.
If all you shoot is full size IPSC where the size is a constant, its easy to range. Too bad thats not how real world shooting goes.
Comparing long range precision shooting to that type of shooting, has almost nothing in common.
Try to get a first round hit on a small target far away where you don't have a defined size you can mil. Yea there is a reason hit percentages went up dramatically once people starting lasing their targets and stopped using paper dope.
If all you shoot is full size IPSC where the size is a constant, its easy to range. Too bad thats not how real world shooting goes.
This is where you build riflemen, not just gamers IMO. But if is a completely different shooting atmosphere than say PRS. I would imagine the round counts are much lower and a slower firing rate, focusing on first round impacts.
I'm not sure that's how real world shooting goes... at least outside of snipers and prs gamers. You're hyper focused on just the one small segment of shooting and there's a whole big world out there of shooters/hunters/competitors/enthusiasts that may not have a need to develop these skills but certainly have a desire to. You are correct in the statement that a week long school will not make professionals out of attendees but that isn't the only use case.
Gaming is damn fun and hard. But it doesn't have a lot of practical application for most shooters. Learning to mil and range targets does have a lot of practical application for many shooters that would improve upon their existing skillset.
Not at all. Gaming is one small piece. General rifleman-ship, Hunting, Long range plinking ect all benefit from the same skill sets.
There is a reason actual sniper school is like 6-10 weeks in the services. Granted they teach other skills, but you cant make someone an effective shooter in a week, unless they already have a really good baseline of skills. Its just too much information too fast. The info that many of us spent years or decades acquiring and absorbing just cant be taught that fast. I recently took a class full of mostly green shooters and honestly, did not see much difference from day 1 to day 2. The guys who already shot/competed were able to progress because they were only working on a few things, instead of trying to learn 100 at once.
Where I hunt you will not take a shot past 250 yards. Rifle season is limited to strait wall, so you don't need a kestral or exact ballistics. If I was hunting out west, or using my smokeless muzzleloader, then Absolutely you want the most accurate data to make the best estimate as odds are already stacked against you.
I also disagree about the gaming. The skills you gain will make you a better rifleman all the way around. Being able to adapt to the surrounding, the skills to build the most stable position and the skills acquired in reading wind and spotting your shots all greatly benefit other disciplines. Thats why alot of hunters start shooting prs and NRL hunter type matches. It makes them a MUCH better shooter. I can tell you from long rifles to carbines to PCC,'s the skills I have acquired competing all contribute to making me a better shooting at all of them. You have to have good trigger presses (translates to everything). You have to understand POI/POA. You have to be able to get stable as possible as fast as possible. You have to understand wind and ballistic path of the bullet. You have to be able to do this fast and without a much thinking, which only comes from reps and building muscle memory making alot of what you do subconcious.
I'm not hyper focused on anything, just using it as an example, as it translates very well. If I could think of one shooting discipline/hobby that will make someone an all around better marksman it would be PRS style shooting by a mile. We see it every match. People grow very fast in skillset and knowledge because they get a ton of trigger time and 10 times as much time watching others shoot. You learn way more just from watching other people shoot, how they approach a problem,ect than through trial and error of your own. We have guys who have been competing for 2 years who can hang with guys who been top of the game for a decade. This is because they are able to learn from others instead of making all the mistakes themselves.
With modern cheap LRF, milling targets is a waste of time. It can be done, and honestly doesnt need much instruction. If you know how big the target is, its simple math. Copy/Pasting a target is common sense, or should be. The problem is as the distance increases, any slight error in milling (and most reticles only go down to about .2 mils) will throw a shot off. The difference between 735 and 755, which may look the same when milling is about 8 inches with a high BC 6.5cm. So a on a 1 moa target, that is a missed shot. As distances grow, so does the error. Its why Range finders really are a critical tool if you are doing any long range UNK distance shooting.
We see seasoned hunters, LE and military snipers show up and get their asses handed to them. They are not used to this style of shooting , at this speed and not having a bunch of time "on the clock". There are agencies who send their snipers to matches as paid training. Its invaluable to a sniper to get so many different expereinces and "looks". Same deal for Hunters, being able to understand whats around you and how to make as solid as a possison as you can (using bags, tripods, bipods, packs, trees, rocks, ect) as well as making good clean trigger presses under pressure. Its a stressor.
Want to become a great shooter, there is nothing even close to shooting matches that will get you there faster. You could take 15 classes a year and you would learn way less than shooting 15 matches. Its just how it is. Problem is so many people are initimidated and scared to look silly. But thats unfortunatey becuase thats the path everyone takes and its just part of the journey. Just do it.
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