Gunsmithing DO NOT USE VIBRATITE HOT LOCK

[supercorndogs]

I use anti seize on mine. I don't want those stainless threads galling, like they are prone to doing.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

There is absolutely a gap between the end your muzzle and the muzzle device. If not you would risk the device bottoming out on the muzzle before it did on the shoulder where its supposed to bottom out.

I have never had to use anything but my hands and a pot holder, before I had heat shields, to remove my YHM QD cans.

No, there absolutely IS NOT a gap on a TBAC CB brake or a rearden. They are open to the first port. If the brake shoulders against the barrel should why the fuck would it need a ledge or anything in front of the crown? Some brakes may be designed that way but not any of the ones I use.

 

[wvfarrier]

I use anti seize on mine. I don't want those stainless threads galling, like they are prone to doing.

That was a big issue with stainless Les Baer 1911s for a while. Damn things would seize up like 15 year old boy grabbing his first tit

 

[BurtG]

How are you cleaning

Wipe out and leaving barrels muzzle down after cleaning has worked for me

 

[supercorndogs]

No, there absolutely IS NOT a gap on a TBAC CB brake or a rearden. They are open to the first port. If the brake shoulders against the barrel should why the fuck would it need a ledge or anything in front of the crown? Some brakes may be designed that way but not any of the ones I use.

I should have said most as i was speaking in general. I almost edited the post to reflect that.

Why the fuck all of them I have seen are the way they are, I don't know. Or why ,if yours are open on the front, you would think water couldnt get in or disvole the thread locker vs it galled; I dont know either. Or maybe the people who make it are lying about it dissolving in water. Seems pretty fucking unlikley though.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The galling forward of the missing threads was most likely from material from those threads when it was coming off. I was loosening it as far as it would go without binding up and then running it back on a couple turns to try to minimize that. I was getting another 1/2 turn or so each time. As soon as I felt the snap/crunch as soon as it broke free I already had a feeling what was going to be underneath. I figured it would be back at the shoulder though and not in the middle of the threads.

 

[308pirate]

This^^^^^^
Because if both threads are correct you don't need shit except torque to keep things in place. The old way (before all the chemicals came along) to correct a bad threading job was to cross drill & tap for a set screw. Once it was tapped you dropped in a slug of lead then tightened the set screw, it was there until you wanted to remove it. Pop out the set screw and it would allow removal w/o dicking up either thread.

You don't know what you're talking about

 

[FredHammer]

Fuck that Hot Lock shit! I'm sticking to #246 blue and 35ftlbs.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Look, it's great that some of you don't use thread locker on muzzle devices and haven't had an issue with them backing off, but quite frankly it's irrelevant here and I don't really give a shit what you choose to use. I have had brakes back off that were properly torqued on precision threads with great fit and I've had to go through the fuckery of getting those brakes out of the cans. So I use thread locker because that doesn't happen when you use it on properly prepped threads. Most suppressor manufacturers also recommend the use of thread locker and many include it when you buy the muzzle device. I would think they know better than most and see more first hand issues than the typical end user.

Regardless, this stuff is marketed specifically for this use and it even says in on the product page. It doesn't have disclaimers about using it on precision fit threads on the product page or on the technical PDF so it should work as designed and advertised. It didn't work as designed and advertised and didn't release as it should have.

Furthermore this brake wasn't even torqued all the way to the spec. I've had accuracy issues on 1/2-28 muzzles when high torque is used so I don't gorilla them. I set the torque wrench to 15ftlbs with a crows foot which ends up about 17-18ftlbs with the offset.

I've spoken to Lori at vibratite again this morning and also Michael at Larue and will update the original post with that information shortly.

 

[ma smith]

OP is that a 419 adaptor, or something else?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

OP is that a 419 adaptor, or something else?

It's a Rearden SPB.

 

[RagnarAW50]

Is the barrel and brake stainless?

I have stainless fasteners friction weld, of course a lot of that is dependent on the particular alloy of stainless...304,305 and 306 "cheap stainless" are really prone to that. I don't know about 416 have not played with it enough. I always put something on the threads when stainless to stainless, If I don't want it to come apart locktite, color just depends on how hard I want it to be to take apart...otherwise some sort of thread lube...

Does not affect the OP at all though, that really sucks!

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Barrel is 416 with heat treating that they couldn't divulge and the brake is 17-4 SS H900 and nitrided.

My advice after this latest lesson from the school of hard knocks would obviously be to not use hot lock as your "something" for the threads

 

[GBMaryland]

Wow. I generally use blue loctite and it's usually sufficient.

 

[Fig]

I use anti seize on mine. I don't want those stainless threads galling, like they are prone to doing.

I do the same, which is BTW, the exact opposite of using a thread locker. I am generally more concerned that something won't come off than it will come off prematurely...

Hell, you probably wouldn't have had that much damage if you used JB Weld...

 

[Ledzep]

That sucks.

It took some mental gymnastics for me to get on board with the "adapter for my adapter" thing, but honestly this has been my solution for suppressor and brake mounting without any headaches. I don't buy a can if it can't be hellfired. Grease the threads and torque the base adapter on. Never had anything stick the wrong way but even if it does they're opposite direction threads and you could easily get them loose.

Hellfire Universal Adapter

Hellfire Universal Adapter

www.area419.com

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Not as much as the OP regrets using vibra-tite. And granted that in the last 10 years and 20k rounds I have not had a problem. And if I did, I would just fill it with CLR or a while, then put it in the US cleaner. Then I would torque it down on a shot out barrel from the pile and take the can off. If I couldnt get it tight enough to take apart. I would just tack weld the muzzle device to the junk barrel.

How are you cleaning your crown and removing cleaning solvents that get stuck in the gap between the end of the muzzle and the muzzle device? ITs also a great place for condensation to pool from your can if you leave it on to cool down.

You know no one here really shoots.

 

[TheOE800]

You know no one here really shoots.

Guilty

 

[supercorndogs]

Look, it's great that some of you don't use thread locker on muzzle devices and haven't had an issue with them backing off, but quite frankly it's irrelevant here and I don't really give a shit what you choose to use. I have had brakes back off that were properly torqued on precision threads with great fit and I've had to go through the fuckery of getting those brakes out of the cans. So I use thread locker because that doesn't happen when you use it on properly prepped threads. Most suppressor manufacturers also recommend the use of thread locker and many include it when you buy the muzzle device. I would think they know better than most and see more first hand issues than the typical end user.

Regardless, this stuff is marketed specifically for this use and it even says in on the product page. It doesn't have disclaimers about using it on precision fit threads on the product page or on the technical PDF so it should work as designed and advertised. It didn't work as designed and advertised and didn't release as it should have.

Furthermore this brake wasn't even torqued all the way to the spec. I've had accuracy issues on 1/2-28 muzzles when high torque is used so I don't gorilla them. I set the torque wrench to 15ftlbs with a crows foot which ends up about 17-18ftlbs with the offset.

I've spoken to Lori at vibratite again this morning and also Michael at Larue and will update the original post with that information shortly.

I am not sure why the first conclusion you are jumping to is the thread locker. Seems a lot more likely a little ball of metal did its thing in there. Than this stuff didn't dissolve in two days in a substance that dissolves it and pulled a thread off. Galling happens on stainless if you don't use lube. It's fairly well known problem.

 

[JoeZ]

I am not sure why the first conclusion you are jumping to is the thread locker. Seems a lot more likely a little ball of metal did its thing in there. Than this stuff didn't dissolve in two days in a substance that dissolves it and pulled a thread off. Galling happens on stainless if you don't use lube. It's fairly well known problem.

^ This. If enough torque is applied, perhaps the threads of each deformed each other just enough (so conformed to each other) to seal the water out, or to begin a failure (galling) of the thread. Water main patches are stainless and you always use lube on the nuts or your not getting it apart without a cut off wheel.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I am not sure why the first conclusion you are jumping to is the thread locker. Seems a lot more likely a little ball of metal did its thing in there. Than this stuff didn't dissolve in two days in a substance that dissolves it and pulled a thread off. Galling happens on stainless if you don't use lube. It's fairly well known problem.

I thoroughly clean the threads, brake, and shims with acetone and 150psi air and they get threaded on by hand until seated and ready to torque. I’m OCD as shit when it comes to mounting muzzle devices and I’m 100% confident that there was nothing in the threads. That’s why I’m confident that this thing was locked up from the thread locker.

^ This. If enough torque is applied, perhaps the threads of each deformed each other just enough (so conformed to each other) to seal the water out, or to begin a failure (galling) of the thread. Water main patches are stainless and you always use lube on the nuts or your not getting it apart without a cut off wheel.

The brake was torqued to half of the manufacturers 30ftlbs rating which is very light…

 

[hero's machine]

Stainless on Stainless can be less forgiving than an ex wife in divorce court.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The brake is nitrided and probably a hundred nitrided brakes a day get torqued onto SS barrels and it’s rarely an issue.

Larue has even has this same issue with rockset and stopped using it because of it.

 

[JoeZ]

The brake was torqued to half of the manufacturers 30ftlbs rating which is very light…

Well, that certainly won't deform even a 1/2 x 28 thread.

 

[ma smith]

Take a look at the Post 16 image, the nitride layer inside threads looks damaged.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

That’s odd. I’ve used this stuff for years and never had anything close to this happen.
I’ve had a few that were tough to get off but never had to soak anything.

 

[Arc Light]

Had considered using this stuff, but saw where TBAC recommends hi-temp red loctite and that's what I've been using. Never had a muzzle device come loose and when you want to remove it 30 seconds with a propane torch and it comes right off.

 

[RUN8]

Damn, good luck.

 

[RUN8]

@redneckbmxer24 I wonder if the water turned that ceramic Hot Lock into an abrasive slurry when you soaked it? Partially dissolved some of it but still solid chunks in there that acted like fuckin’ 20 grit sandpaper as you spun the muzzle brake off?

 

[TheOE800]

Had considered using this stuff, but saw where TBAC recommends hi-temp red loctite and that's what I've been using. Never had a muzzle device come loose and when you want to remove it 30 seconds with a propane torch and it comes right off.

Barrett uses red loctite and it's obnoxious.

 

[carbonbased]

@redneckbmxer24 I wonder if the water turned that ceramic Hot Lock into an abrasive slurry when you soaked it? Partially dissolved some of it but still solid chunks in there that acted like fuckin’ 20 grit sandpaper as you spun the muzzle brake off?

This, this, THIS is what beach sex is actually like in the surf.

Not that bs movie lovemaking in Blue-Lagoon-Brooke-Shields-type Hollywood crap.

 

[carbonbased]

What I’m trying to say here, @redneckbmxer24 is that your Brooke Shields brake tore your foreskin off.

 

[M4orturnate]

Guess I’ll stick with Rocksett, the few times I’ve removed a muzzle device with Rocksett a warm water soak got it dissolved with no issues.

I just smack the muzzle device with a plastic hammer and twist it off. I also only use like a single drop

 

[toader]

Be warned, don’t use this shit if you ever want your muzzle device to come off. It was installed per their instructions and removed per their instructions with extended soaking time and it took half of the threads with it.

After 2 days of soaking in water (how they say to remove it) I called vibratite because the fucker wouldn’t budge and spoke to a lady there. I told her that I had soaked it and it wasn’t coming off and asked if there was a solvent I could use.

I was advised that soaking in warm water was what dissolved it and that it shouldn’t take long but to keep swapping the water out for warm and to also tap on the muzzle device with a hammer. The lady also said the only person that couldn’t get one off took it to a gunsmith and it was locked on because they used a spacer shim and said the spacer shims are what would lock it… my ass.

So I soaked it two more days and this was the result when it finally came off.

I’m going to call them tomorrow and see what they have to say.


*UPDATE*

I've spoken to Vibratite and Larue. I spoke to the same lady at vibratite who I guess is the main contact point. I told her I followed her instructions for two whole days of soaking and periodically swapping out with warm water and tapping it with a hammer, and that it came off but the threads came with it. She said this is unheard of and will need to forward this to her chemists to find out what happened (probably what to blame it on to deny responsibility). I'll follow up with their response but it likely won't be until next week.

Larue gave me as much info about the barrel steel as they could for me to forward to vibratite and also said they've seen the same thing happen with rockset and is partially why they stopped using it and use a non ceramic loctite product now. This failure was not at any fault of them or their barrel but they said if I don't get anywhere with vibratite that they would replace the barrel at a reduced cost which I think is very generous.

She gone!!

 

[magman687]

The brake is nitrided and probably a hundred nitrided brakes a day get torqued onto SS barrels and it’s rarely an issue.

Larue has even has this same issue with rockset and stopped using it because of it.

Man this makes me nervous I just ordered my suppressor and 3 ASR adapters to go on three different rifles and one of them just so happens to be a LaRue match upper.
Now I'm worried about using the rock set that comes with them or the bottle of Hot lock I just bought.

I may have missed it in one of the comments somewhere but you did mention in a post that LaRue themselves stopped using rock set did they tell you what they use on their barrels is it just blue or red Loctite or something else.

Just like you I would hate to ruin this expensive Barrel.
Thanks in advance

 

[6.5SH]

Man this makes me nervous I just ordered my suppressor and 3 ASR adapters to go on three different rifles and one of them just so happens to be a LaRue match upper.
Now I'm worried about using the rock set that comes with them or the bottle of Hot lock I just bought.

I may have missed it in one of the comments somewhere but you did mention in a post that LaRue themselves stopped using rock set did they tell you what they use on their barrels is it just blue or red Loctite or something else.

Just like you I would hate to ruin this expensive Barrel.
Thanks in advance

LaRue used one of the green Loctite that isn't a sleeve retainer but isn't commonly available (if at all anymore). I don't recall the number but will update this post if I find it. It required a stupid amount of heat to remove.

Rocksett when used properly is fine (i.e. don't use the whole flipping package...)

 

[carbonbased]

The galling forward of the missing threads was most likely from material from those threads when it was coming off. I was loosening it as far as it would go without binding up and then running it back on a couple turns to try to minimize that. I was getting another 1/2 turn or so each time. As soon as I felt the snap/crunch as soon as it broke free I already had a feeling what was going to be underneath. I figured it would be back at the shoulder though and not in the middle of the threads.

Well, I guess the universe sent me a bill for my light-hearted joke above. Not saying the Tikka barrel was Vibratite Hot Locked at the factory or that a prev owner used it, but my barrel and receiver are toast.

There was a bunch of dark gray grease on the threads, of course with lots of metal chunks from the threads mixed in. I used the same technique you used (back and forth). Didn’t hear/feel a snap or crunch, however.

I guess my barrel and receiver had a roll on the beach lol

Pics 1

Tikka T3 Thread

I pretty much said all I have to say about it in the first post I made. There is nothing I would buy an Origin over a Tikka for. You get a complete rifle for the cost of an Origin action, and there's a great chance the factory tikka barrel will shoot sub moa with match grade factory ammo. If...

www.snipershide.com

Pics 2 (not cleaned much, right after removal)

Tikka T3 Thread

I pretty much said all I have to say about it in the first post I made. There is nothing I would buy an Origin over a Tikka for. You get a complete rifle for the cost of an Origin action, and there's a great chance the factory tikka barrel will shoot sub moa with match grade factory ammo. If...

www.snipershide.com

 

[magman687]

LaRue used one of the green Loctite that isn't a sleeve retainer but isn't commonly available (if at all anymore). I don't recall the number but will update this post if I find it. It required a stupid amount of heat to remove.

Rocksett when used properly is fine (i.e. don't use the whole flipping package...)

Sorry I know it's been a while and I haven't got back to you but I just wanted to let you know that I did contact LaRue and they told me it was Loctite 620 although I purchased a rock set just because it can withstand the higher temperatures

 

[carbonbased]

Update on my Tikka saga here (good news)

Tikka T3 Thread

The smile on her face after the first shot says it all. I would be surprised if she doesn't claim the rifle as hers now. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Yeah, she liked it :)

www.snipershide.com

 

[mattc51]

I use the high temp stuff to keep my suppressors on and have removed them on occasion. Boiled a pot of water and soaked the can and barrel end in a drink tumbler for 20 mins or so. It eventually gives and you can take the items off the muzzle.

 

[ToddM]

I've seen damage happen (not threads tore clean off) with rockset and similar stuff to this that requires water to dissolve it when the fittings are so tight that the water never penetrates. It's part of the problem with these water soluble thread lockers, if the water can't get in, it's not letting go. If I use it I only use a ridiculously tiny bit of it. I suspect it's designed more for coarse threads/fittings that are not machined to the tolerances that precision parts are.