4 clicks per inch at 100 yards seems like it would be the easiest but I'd love to hear opinions.
Do you guys prefer MIL or MOA?
- Thread starter KCode
- Start date
Think this is probably an Optics subforum question, though it's been rehashed a million times. You may benefit from MRAD though because your scope doesn't adjust in inches so there's really no reason to ever think in linear units at all. If your scope isn't crappy you have a ruler in front of your eye (the reticle) that is in the same units the scope adjusts in. So going with MRAD may break you of that mindset which would be a good thing.
I have yet to make a shot correction in inches.
MOA guys….. always thinking in linear measurments making more work for themselves. Stop it.
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This is 2024. We stopped counting clicks over a decade ago.
Use the search function. Do not try to use linear measurements for angular measurement. Once you "get it", you'll understand that's like trying to find the volume of a sphere using temperature.
Alright who's going to start up a good old FFP vs SFP thread?
How about an old Mark 4 with SFP with Moa turrets and mil reticle
I was joking when I said to start a mil vs moa thread in your 6.5 vs 308 thread…..
But……
Let’s do it!!!!
But……
Let’s do it!!!!
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Fine but that means I get dibs on going to the hunting section and talking about how you need the Knockdown Power™ of a magnum to kill elk.
Fine by me but you may have to negotiate with @KCode as he likely already acquired the rights to that one as well....I think he's planning to produce and release an entire 'Dead Horse' anthology and this is only the beginning....
This thread can't be real. Unless we're in the twilight zone.
Most everyone prefers moa reticle with a capped mil elevation turret and zero stop on their windage.
200 yard fixed parallax.
Right??
200 yard fixed parallax.
Right??
Well, that's no how MOA works, soooo....
I started with MOA, so that's what I've got. But realizing both systems are a matter of different units of ANGULAR measurement... and if the reticle subtensions match the units used by the turrets... It doesn't matter.Who's going to admit to preferring MOA over MIL? How embarrassing
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F-Class shooters. Bunch of weirdos those dudes. All with the 1/8 MOA clicks.Who's going to admit to preferring MOA over MIL? How embarrassing
A good friend of mine who competes at the national level for Service Rifle and Palma Class (I think) has a joke about that....
"You know what the hardest thing about being an F-Class shooter is?"
"Telling your parents you're gay."
If you view precision rifle shooting as a journey, and not a destination, I suggest you buy or borrow MOA and see if what seems easiest to you actually is.
-Stan
3-9x40, duplex reticle, fixed parallax, capped knobs.
Solves the mil/moa problem.
Solves the ffp/sfp problem.
Solves the turret zeroing problem.
Solves the yards/meters problem.
Solves the parallax knob being off problem.
Solves the turret tracking problem.
Imma patent the idea I think..
Solves the mil/moa problem.
Solves the ffp/sfp problem.
Solves the turret zeroing problem.
Solves the yards/meters problem.
Solves the parallax knob being off problem.
Solves the turret tracking problem.
Imma patent the idea I think..
Ok dude. Let’s keep this short.
They both work. Each MIL (aka MRAD) is a larger angular measurement than MOA so the numbers are smaller. Easier to deal with in your head.
People tend to use what other people around them use. Makes it easier to communicate efficiently. It’s a tribe thing. I like MRAD.
About the inches thing…I think we’ve all been there. To knock that stuff outta your head, go sight-in a rifle (or re-sight it in for this exercise).
Let’s say the first shot is 2 MRAD low. (Or MOA)
Looking through your FFP scope (or SFP scope at the one magnification that its reticle is calibrated for), count how many hashes the shot is off by.
Look at your elevation turret. 2 MRAD low? Turn it up 2 MRAD. Done. No inches/feet/yards/cm/meters needed.
Maybe you’re shooting for yourself, or maybe you’re helping somebody else sight in the rifle. Instead of saying, “The shot is 7.2 inches low, now how many MRAD is that?” Just say, “The shot is 2 MRAD low. Turn the elevation dial up 2 MRAD.”
Your reticle is a measuring device that operates in its own world! BOOM
P.S. I hope to god you do not say you have a simple ungraduated duplex reticle, or worse, a one post reticle lol
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If you’re a serious shooter
You need a serious optic
Why choose one when you can have both and a whole bunch of other shit
You need a serious optic
Why choose one when you can have both and a whole bunch of other shit
No, NO, NO! Everyone knows that a mil dot reticle with a MOA dials is the way to go. Especially the one dot per 1 MOA. Lots of definition to play with. Everyone also knows that all parallax is set at 100 yards. Where have you been fellow?
Is MIL mainly for MILitary use and MOA is more for hunting? I'll post up the video I watched last night that simplified MOA
I like this guy
I like this guy
MILs bring out all the Commies. They Commies because they Chili ain’t got no beans.
MOA (acronym for “Minute of America”) shooters also don’t need to stand so close to the urinal.
Science, FTW!
MOA (acronym for “Minute of America”) shooters also don’t need to stand so close to the urinal.
Science, FTW!
I have MIL scopes.
I have MOA scopes.
I have FFP scopes.
I have SFP scopes.
I once had a scope that was supposedly inch per hundred yards.
I have no real preference between MIL or MOA. I do prefer SFP for hunting, so the vast majority of my shooting and preparations. 500 and in, it's almost a gimme.
No matter the scope, I see that I was aiming "here" but hit "over there". I look at the marks in the reticle and think, okay, over there about that much and up/down about this much and try again. If I'm going to make more than just a couple of trigger pulls, I MIGHT dial some correction. If I have lots of time, like when I'm killing rocks that need killing, I will use the LRF and Kestrel and try to make my best guess at dialing for a first round hit.
I have MOA scopes.
I have FFP scopes.
I have SFP scopes.
I once had a scope that was supposedly inch per hundred yards.
I have no real preference between MIL or MOA. I do prefer SFP for hunting, so the vast majority of my shooting and preparations. 500 and in, it's almost a gimme.
No matter the scope, I see that I was aiming "here" but hit "over there". I look at the marks in the reticle and think, okay, over there about that much and up/down about this much and try again. If I'm going to make more than just a couple of trigger pulls, I MIGHT dial some correction. If I have lots of time, like when I'm killing rocks that need killing, I will use the LRF and Kestrel and try to make my best guess at dialing for a first round hit.
Mil= Milliradian. google can explain better what that is.
Moa= minute of angle. Google can explain better what that is.
Both are angular units of measure.
Choose your preference.
IPHY= Inch per hundred yards, all users of this need a good dope slap upside the head
Ok, I tried to help, but you must be troll. Or an idiot. Or both.
I don’t say this often, but use the search function dude. You’re wasting everyone’s time. Go use @TheHorta ‘s World Famous perfect reticle. I’m sure he’ll share it (it’s awesome).
All this mills and moas, y’all jsut don’t no nothin about hittin them targets.
us Motar Men, we know all about getting the rounds on target. Our spotter tells us the YARDAGE we need to move and we put our rounds right there, to the total disgust of those who don’t like us. To accomplish this goal, first we have to lay the tube…..The process is quite simple..See description below. (This is why my son described mortar men of which I am one as, “infantry who can do math.”
Gun laying is a set of actions to align the axis of a gun barrel so that it points in the required direction. This alignment is in the horizontal and vertical planes. A gun is "traversed" (rotated in a horizontal plane) to align it with the target, and "elevated" (moved in the vertical plane) to range it to the target. Gun laying may be for direct fire, where the layer sees the target, or indirect fire, where the target may not be visible from the gun. Gun laying has sometimes been called "training the gun".
Laying in the vertical plane (elevation angle) uses data derived from trials or empirical experience. For any given gun and projectile types, it reflects the distance to the target and the size of the propellant charge. It also incorporates any differences in height between gun and target. With indirect fire, it may allow for other variables as well.
Depending on the gun mount, there is usually a choice of two trajectories that will result in the shot landing in the same spot. The dividing angle between the trajectories is about 45 degrees (usually between 0 degrees and 90 degrees), it varies slightly due to gun dependent factors. Below 45 degrees the trajectory is called "low angle" (or lower register), above 45 degrees is "high angle" (or upper register). The differences are that low angle fire has a shorter time of flight, a lower vertex, and flatter angle of descent.
All guns have carriages or mountings that support the barrel assembly (called the ordnance in some countries). Early guns could only be traversed by moving their entire carriage or mounting, and this lasted with heavy artillery into World War II. Mountings could be fitted into traversing turrets on ships, coast defences or tanks. From circa 1900 field artillery carriages provided traverse without moving the wheels and trail.
The carriage, or mounting, also enabled the barrel to be set at the required elevation angle. With some gun mounts it is possible to depress the gun, i.e., move it in the vertical plane to point it below the horizon. Some guns require a near-horizontal elevation for loading. An essential capability for any elevation mechanism is to prevent the weight of the barrel forcing its heavier end downward. This is greatly helped by having trunnions (around which the elevating mass rotates vertically) at the centre of gravity, although a counterbalance mechanism can be used. It also means the elevation gear has to be strong enough to resist considerable downward pressure but still be easy for the gun layer to use.
Final thought. We were tested on completing this task successfully. It was not just setting the tube up, it was doing it in a time limit. I scored Expert, thank you very much.
And you fellows who shoot PRS think you are under a stressful time limit. Mortar Men had to do this in time when their targets were shooting back at us.
us Motar Men, we know all about getting the rounds on target. Our spotter tells us the YARDAGE we need to move and we put our rounds right there, to the total disgust of those who don’t like us. To accomplish this goal, first we have to lay the tube…..The process is quite simple..See description below. (This is why my son described mortar men of which I am one as, “infantry who can do math.”
Gun laying is a set of actions to align the axis of a gun barrel so that it points in the required direction. This alignment is in the horizontal and vertical planes. A gun is "traversed" (rotated in a horizontal plane) to align it with the target, and "elevated" (moved in the vertical plane) to range it to the target. Gun laying may be for direct fire, where the layer sees the target, or indirect fire, where the target may not be visible from the gun. Gun laying has sometimes been called "training the gun".
Laying in the vertical plane (elevation angle) uses data derived from trials or empirical experience. For any given gun and projectile types, it reflects the distance to the target and the size of the propellant charge. It also incorporates any differences in height between gun and target. With indirect fire, it may allow for other variables as well.
Depending on the gun mount, there is usually a choice of two trajectories that will result in the shot landing in the same spot. The dividing angle between the trajectories is about 45 degrees (usually between 0 degrees and 90 degrees), it varies slightly due to gun dependent factors. Below 45 degrees the trajectory is called "low angle" (or lower register), above 45 degrees is "high angle" (or upper register). The differences are that low angle fire has a shorter time of flight, a lower vertex, and flatter angle of descent.
All guns have carriages or mountings that support the barrel assembly (called the ordnance in some countries). Early guns could only be traversed by moving their entire carriage or mounting, and this lasted with heavy artillery into World War II. Mountings could be fitted into traversing turrets on ships, coast defences or tanks. From circa 1900 field artillery carriages provided traverse without moving the wheels and trail.
The carriage, or mounting, also enabled the barrel to be set at the required elevation angle. With some gun mounts it is possible to depress the gun, i.e., move it in the vertical plane to point it below the horizon. Some guns require a near-horizontal elevation for loading. An essential capability for any elevation mechanism is to prevent the weight of the barrel forcing its heavier end downward. This is greatly helped by having trunnions (around which the elevating mass rotates vertically) at the centre of gravity, although a counterbalance mechanism can be used. It also means the elevation gear has to be strong enough to resist considerable downward pressure but still be easy for the gun layer to use.
Final thought. We were tested on completing this task successfully. It was not just setting the tube up, it was doing it in a time limit. I scored Expert, thank you very much.
And you fellows who shoot PRS think you are under a stressful time limit. Mortar Men had to do this in time when their targets were shooting back at us.
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All "real" shooters have this table taped to their rifle stocks.
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