dodgy .303 ammo

[ganyana]

Probably doesn't apply to too many members of this forum, but recently Zimbabwe defence co sold a whole heap of old .303 ammo onto the world market...

problem is some of our 'special' ammo is unaccounted for and may well be in that batch.

Cartridges are old 67 dated PMP millitary rounds with a scratched DH or NWB on the primer. They contain...5grns black, D8 det, and as much PE4 (british equivalent of C4) as could be stuffed in the case.

there are also some hundreds of rounds - also PMP 67 filled with MS200 (eqivalent of US bullseye). Primers marked with an X. We know from tests that the rounds filled with pistol powder will blow a rifle and probably take the firers fingers off the suporting hand. The PE4 filled rounds may well kill the man who pulls the trigger.

Of course, the ammo should have been destroyed...but Zimbabwe has seen such a turn over of staff in the last 20 years in all government departments ...institutional memory is missing.

Again, no US importer should have been alowed to have anything to do with ZDI...but it is only the USA and a few ex brit collonies that substantial numbers of .303 rifles still exist.

 

[Guest]

Re: dodgy .303 ammo

Spiking your own ammo is not new, but selling it as surplus is a new twist. Is this the UN's way to rid the world of weapons, so they can have total control? If so whos going to fight the Cling'ons when they arrive?

 

[AUJohn]

Re: dodgy .303 ammo

Wow, that's really going to go off with a bang!

What a nightmare!

 

[Mkcoastie1]

Re: dodgy .303 ammo

Dr. Don,
You referred to the ammo as "special" ammo. So is it correct to assume that the ammo was purposely made to injure someone and if so, can you give me a little history behind why this is. Im just curious why and what the story is behind this. Thanks for the heads up as I shoot .303 and who knows what will turn up out there.

 

[Guest]

Re: dodgy .303 ammo

Spiking your enemys ammo was started, right after smokeless powder came into being on the battlefield. All countrys that have fought wars have done it,...every,...one,... of them. When a weapon blows up in your face, it has lasting effects, up an down the line, that are really cost effective.

Guarding ammo dumps/shipments is done for many reasons, not just theft. Some folks that are up to speed, roll their own, for lots of reasons, cost not being the primary.

 

[sherlok]

Re: dodgy .303 ammo

It was reported that the North Vietnamese produced rounds loaded with TNT to kill our people who used their captured AK47s (initial problems with the M-16 ammo made some guys feel that the AK47 was more reliable). Supposedly these explosive rounds could be identified by grooves on the case and it's unknown how many if any people were killed or injured, but it sure discouraged the use of captured weapons.

Sherlok

 

[Macduff]

Re: dodgy .303 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sherlok</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It was reported that the North Vietnamese produced rounds loaded with TNT to kill our people who used their captured AK47s (initial problems with the M-16 ammo made some guys feel that the AK47 was more reliable). Supposedly these explosive rounds could be identified by grooves on the case and it's unknown how many if any people were killed or injured, but it sure discouraged the use of captured weapons.

Sherlok

</div></div>


The MACV-SOG did the same thing in Operation Eldest Son. Cartridges were loaded with a PETN like explosive and then inserted into NVA stockpiles. Here's a very interesting article regarding it. http://www.jcs-group.com/military/war1964/project.html

 

[nicholst55]

Re: dodgy .303 ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr Don Heath D.Sc.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Probably doesn't apply to too many members of this forum, but recently Zimbabwe defence co sold a whole heap of old .303 ammo onto the world market...

problem is some of our 'special' ammo is unaccounted for and may well be in that batch.

Cartridges are old 67 dated PMP millitary rounds with a scratched DH or NWB on the primer. They contain...5grns black, D8 det, and as much PE4 (british equivalent of C4) as could be stuffed in the case.

there are also some hundreds of rounds - also PMP 67 filled with MS200 (eqivalent of US bullseye). Primers marked with an X. We know from tests that the rounds filled with pistol powder will blow a rifle and probably take the firers fingers off the suporting hand. The PE4 filled rounds may well kill the man who pulls the trigger.

Of course, the ammo should have been destroyed...but Zimbabwe has seen such a turn over of staff in the last 20 years in all government departments ...institutional memory is missing.

Again, no US importer should have been alowed to have anything to do with ZDI...but it is only the USA and a few ex brit collonies that substantial numbers of .303 rifles still exist. </div></div>

Have you posted this same info on other forums like Gun Boards or Military Surplus Collectors? It will get much more exposure to people involved in Curio and Relic firearms.

 

[ganyana]

Re: dodgy .303 ammo

Nicholst...no haven't posted elsewhere...I am not really into the internet but reading about the odd blow up on this forum made me think about it.

The ammo was 'remanufactured' in three lots between 1989 and 1993 to mix with regular ball ammo and give out to poachers. We had alot of bursting .303's for several years

The really nasty stuff though was made to dispose of a certain gang believed to have been operating from Zambia. The consignment was in the back of a parks (unmarked) land crusier when 'initial negotiations' with the gang and their middle man went wrong and a few bad guys got shot. Unfortunately one was directly related to the vice president...On the way back to Harare later that day the three officers in the parks cruiser (Charlie Haley from the police, Glenn Tatahm and Steve edwards from Parks) were arrested (charges subsiquently dropped...too many people including the media knew what had happened) but amongst the kit that was taken over by the Karoi police and never returned was the case of 'fixed' .303 ammo.

Since all the blown .303 that have come into forensics have clearly Not been from that ammo we assume it was handed back to bulk storage at ZDI - but ZDI have now sold their old stocks...certainly it has never resurfaced in Zim in 20 years!

NB- All Primers are marked!

During our bush war it was common to booby trap grenades and RPG7's. Charlie Haley- head of our Police forensics unit nearly blew himself up with a 'fixed grenade' when disposing of some old ordinance...but even with pliers he couldn't get the pin out - Fortunately!!!! Have some lovely Photo's of a dead gook with a very suprised expression on his face after he tried to put an RPG into a buss...and it went bang

Re blowing up AK's...not that easy to actually injure the shooter. the original AK47 with the milled reciever is very strong and the case holds very little. A case full of pistol powder will wreck the rifle but the man shooting it will probably get away with it.
A small det and some plastic E...maybe the new generation stuff but the 70's vintage russian and brit stuff I have used...nope. case too small. The AKM offers less protection to the man firing it...ut the case capacity is still very small. There were explosives even then alot stonger than PE4 but they needed to be carefully handeled and transported...