Who goes with the load that groups at distance and pays zero attention to what the magneto says? I see tons of 100 yard groups and lots of magneto numbers posted but not a lot of groups at extended ranges.
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Create a channel Learn moreI don't even own a chrono and don't do ladder or ocw tests. I only go off of how it groups at distance. Just trying to figure out why so many pics of 100 yard groups and chrono numbers we see.Look at the groupings at distance. Forget the ED/SD measurements. If your repeated load at distance groups, what does the ED/SD measurement matter? A 1 inch 5 shot group at 300 yards is more than enough to win any PRS style match. Or kill any animal with in ethical hunting distances. Extreme shooting disciples call for crazy load development. Casual shooting, PRS, local matches and the like are not extreme shooting disciples. Bench rest, extreme Long range are and the like are. Shoot more, develop less. Hope this helps.
I have StrelokPro.Won’t bother posting all the environmentals but 140eldm going 2700 and 2740 has a .3mil difference at 1k.
Linearly, thats 10.8”.
So yea, ES matters.
Chrony’s lie
The bullet doesn’t.
Not sure how you answer the last one without the first two. Your use of real statistics is pretty flawed hereSD does matter because it tells you what you might expect with some amount of certainty. But, it doesn't matter because almost no one shoots enough to make it statistically relavent. 5 shots is the absolute minimum that can give you an 80% confidence interval, but that doesn't make it statistically relavent.
ES does matter because it tells you about the consistency of what you have shot. But, it doesn't matter because it doesn't tell you anything about what you are about to shoot.
Did your bullet impact the target, where it was expected? That is what really matters.
Adding SD to chrono readouts was the work of a cruel, evil genius.
Extremely subtle, but inhumanly evil.
I have yet to hear a shooter describe a legitimate use for it that is also legitimate statistically.
Adding SD to chrono readouts was the work of a cruel, evil genius.
Extremely subtle, but inhumanly evil.
I have yet to hear a shooter describe a legitimate use for it that is also legitimate statistically.
Who goes with the load that groups at distance and pays zero attention to what the magneto says? I see tons of 100 yard groups and lots of magneto numbers posted but not a lot of groups at extended ranges.
Know your rifle. Practice with your rifle. Believe in your rifle. Make the shot.Case in point. You shoot a 5rnd group at distance and it groups well. You were a victim of mathematical variance and the 5 you shot were all pretty well and close.
You didn’t bother with chrono. If you had, and chrono’d over a larger sample, you’d have seen your ES was 20
You’re at a match and there is a 10” square plate.
Your gun is a 1/2 moa gun. So, your gun is good 5.235”.
Now, with your SD, you’ve added .1mil into the equation. So another 3.6”
You now have an 8.835” or an .84moa gun shooting at a 10” plate. Sometimes it’s a .5moa and sometimes it’s a .84moa.
Oh and you only get 2 shots at this plate.
Know your rifle. Practice with your rifle. Believe in your rifle. Make the shot.
Not sure how you answer the last one without the first two. Your use of real statistics is pretty flawed here
My point is merely that many shoot 3-5 shots and announce an SD value. If one shot represents 33% of your sample, you can't have an 80% confidence interval. While the chrono will calculate it, your SD is not relavent. Even taking 5 shots, those may or may not be representative of the whole sample. Stats relies on a preponderance of data, not what reloaders typically generate.
Is SD relavent? Absolutely, but most posted SDs are bunk. This is the duality I was attempting to convey in my earlier post.
I'm not going to disagree with statistical relevance on a 5 shot group by itselfMy point is merely that many shoot 3-5 shots and announce an SD value. If one shot represents 33% of your sample, you can't have an 80% confidence interval. While the chrono will calculate it, your SD is not relavent. Even taking 5 shots, those may or may not be representative of the whole sample. Stats relies on a preponderance of data, not what reloaders typically generate.
Is SD relavent? Absolutely, but most posted SDs are bunk. This is the duality I was attempting to convey in my earlier post.
If you're going to bother paying attention to SD and ES then you need to be shooting 10 or more over the chrono.
For load development and for PRS style matches an ES under 20 is fine in my opinion.
As far as checking your loaded ammo for matches goes I do the following: most my matches are 70-90rds I'll load 100 and shoot 10 for quality control and to get my average speed. The way I shoot them is 1 from each row so I can check from start to finish from my entire loading session how well me and my scale loaded everything. Just because you spend a ton on your powder throwing set up doesn't mean something weird may happen. All should be good and you can make sure your speeds you got from your chrono match up to what you should already have in your preferred program, if you feel the urge to change it a little then do so.
As far as usefulness, for me I'm not quite good enough to be worrying about winning since I usually finish middle of the pack so a 20 ES wouldn't worry me for a match but I really wouldn't want one higher than that.
However those small diamond plates are easier to hit the smaller your vertical is so if you are gunning for a top place at a match I'd be trying to get your ES under 10. Corner hits on a diamond always feel good lol.
If you have decent brass, primers, dies, and a scale it really shouldn't be hard to get your ES under 10 even for a beginner.
I must really suck at loading because I don't think I have a single load with single digit es over a 10 shot string.
I'm not going to disagree with statistical relevance on a 5 shot group by itself
But if every time I'm at the range I throw the chrono on for only 5. Same load same everything. And the SD (and average) is consistant, even from virgin to 1x and 3x fired brass. Then it becomes relevant and I'm merely confirming my load over and over again over a period of time and multiple firings and In this case i think 5 is more than acceptable
Or if I'm working in a .2gr node in 3 consecutive .1gr 5 shot groups. SD becomes relevant there as well looking across the data for all 15