Rifle Scopes Does Vortex PST Gen 2 ffp 5 ×25 have issues breaking ?

[Zcann1]

I am looking at purchasing a new Vortex PST Gen 2 5×25 ffp mil/mil ebr-2c VS the Sig Sauer Tango 4 6×24 ffp dev-L mil/mil.
I have been hearing about a lot of Vortex PST issues right out of the box and having to have them be returned.. I am a newbie and am limited to the 999.00 or less for my 6.5 Creed on a ar-10 platform.. I am looking to be able to reach out to 1100 yards which both will do so will some of you seniors chime in and give me your opinion on which one and why. And yes I already know about for Vortex warranty but I shouldn't have to return something new out of the box or within the first month of using it..
And even though I would love to be able to afford a Nightforce or S&B I just can't get there right now.. thanks for taking the time to help me out..

 

[Dthomas3523]

Unfortunately, in that price range, there is always a higher possibility of getting an optic that needs service. The QC is more of a general spot check, so more things get by.

It’s also a numbers game. You hear more people bring up issues with PST because it’s an extremely popular optic. More purchases = more possibilities for needing a return.

 

[The King]

Every one i have seen has broken. That’s only 3. But it’s 0-3, mechanical demons win!

The first one looked like trying to glass something through a third world toilet bowl.

Here is my advice - care first where it was made and second who made it. Care about both of them at least some. Buy nothing made in China or the Phillipeans.

I would look at getting the new leupold vx 5 or a used scope from the classifieds. Stick to LOW of Japan made scopes or some of the cheaper USA stuff.

 

[Bender]

Used optics section here is your friend. Get a used SWFA or Burris XTR for 1000 or less. Warranty like it was new.

 

[fdkay]

I am looking at purchasing a new Vortex PST Gen 2 5×25 ffp mil/mil ebr-2c VS the Sig Sauer Tango 4 6×24 ffp dev-L mil/mil.
I have been hearing about a lot of Vortex PST issues right out of the box and having to have them be returned.. I am a newbie and am limited to the 999.00 or less for my 6.5 Creed on a ar-10 platform.. I am looking to be able to reach out to 1100 yards which both will do so will some of you seniors chime in and give me your opinion on which one and why. And yes I already know about for Vortex warranty but I shouldn't have to return something new out of the box or within the first month of using it..
And even though I would love to be able to afford a Nightforce or S&B I just can't get there right now.. thanks for taking the time to help me out..

Keep in mind, Vortex sells a metric shit ton of scopes. The ones you hear about are the ones the break.
With that said, when you are talking about full featured tactical scopes in the 900-1200 dollar range, something has got to give.
The PST's probably have the nicest glass in FFP in the price range, they also have nice feeling turrets. What they seem to lack is durability.

On the other hand, the XTR II is built like a tank, is known for durability, is also full featured but lacks the nice glass.

If I'm spending the money, I'm picking durability.
Both scopes are known to track, the XTR II's have been out longer than the PST II's and have been tested on the range and in the field.

 

[Chasing3]

Sounds like it's one or the other for you so that said I would go Vortex. My gunsmith has two of them and has had no issues. He likes them and shoots comps with them and does well. If you have issues at least you know it will get fixed. I looked through his, liked the clarity and turrets felt solid.

 

[Glassaholic]

Breaking right out of the box? Like the first spin of the turrets or? I have not heard of this happening on a large scale. I bought one of the first PST II 5-25x50 and it's still going strong about a year in now. Great glass and turrets for the price. I also just picked up another Burris XTR II 4-20x50 and its glass was better than the first one I had and I would say gives the PST II a good run for its money. I'm about to review a set of $1000 scopes depending on how many I can get my hands on.

 

[steve123]

Every one i have seen has broken. That’s only 3. But it’s 0-3, mechanical demons win!

The first one looked like trying to glass something through a third world toilet bowl.

Here is my advice - care first where it was made and second who made it. Care about both of them at least some. Buy nothing made in China or the Phillipeans.

I would look at getting the new leupold vx 5 or a used scope from the classifieds. Stick to LOW of Japan made scopes or some of the cheaper USA stuff.

Is that G1 or G2 PST's?

 

[Baron85]

Shop on here in the classifieds. There is a great deal on a used bushnell original DMR for around $850. They have a great record for reliability and good tracking. Won't have the feature set of the pst2 but it will have a proven track record, or look at the Burris xtrii. I have no experience with the Burris but I saw a lot at the local rifle comp and great reviews on here about reliability and tracking

 

[The King]

g2. First one was exchanged at the dealer. Second one had the turrets fail. third one had the illumination knob come out.

Had better luck with the gen 1s, but they have a glass jaw turret design and glass that wasn’t near as good as the g2.

As others have said, the xTR II isn’t a bad scope for the money.

 

[steve123]

Thanks King.

These kind of threads are interesting!

i was out shooting and a couple guys drove up. They had brought their rifles so we struck up a conversation. The one guy had his first XTR2 break so he sent it in and the second one wasn't right, something with the focus going bad after each shot and the distance markings being way way off.

I got my S&B back last week after sending it in twice. I think the second time the thing that was wrong was just an oversight, a shoulda checked but didn't thing.

A friends parallax knob fell off on his SWFA 3-15 about six months ago.

Another called up and said his Athlon Argos had broke, it wouldn't focus at longer distances. Turned out the objective bell had unscrewed some when he took off the sunshade. He tightened it up and was GTG.

The main thing I want to know is if and what chronic problems which scope has. Or is it if there could be a design flaw to begin with.

I will say the 3 HDMR's I owned were very reliable scopes despite the few minor faults I saw.

 

[patriot07]

Odds of it breaking? Not great. Several local guys running them with no issues. It's a very nice scope.

 

[koshkin]

I did some digging and it appears there was one bad batch early on that had issues. Those got pulled fairly quickly and everything has been working well since then. I've had one here for quite some time and it hasn't skipped a beat.

ILya

 

[Rob01]

As others have said, the xTR II isn’t a bad scope for the money.

They are made in the Phillipines.

Buy nothing made in China or the Phillipeans.

So what is it?

 

[The King]

i may have had the worst luck in scopes ever. They all fuckin break on me. Even the schmidt’s.

I’m aware the XTR II is made by AO.
Both frankly. if you have to go with an Asian Optical scope, I would select the XTR II.

Its possible the new Nikon AO made stuff will be ok.

It seems the only maker that hasn’t been almost completely unreliable for me is Nightforce.

I have owned the Razor HD II 3-18, PST G1 4-16, 3 2.5-10 PSTs and a strike eagle 1-8.

2 of the 2.5-10s are the only ones that didn’t break in some way.

i had an xtr ii grenade on me. And my Hensoldt. and the zeiss.

At least good customer service is the norm in the optics business - although i would be happier if i hadn’t spent $1856 in the last 5 years shipping broken optics back to companies.

They are made in the Phillipines.



So what is it?

 

[MarinePMI]

Breaking right out of the box? Like the first spin of the turrets or? I have not heard of this happening on a large scale. I bought one of the first PST II 5-25x50 and it's still going strong about a year in now. Great glass and turrets for the price. I also just picked up another Burris XTR II 4-20x50 and its glass was better than the first one I had and I would say gives the PST II a good run for its money. I'm about to review a set of $1000 scopes depending on how many I can get my hands on.

Interesting experience wrt the XTR II; I wonder what changed? (I have an early one that is...meh...in the glass department.)

 

[MarinePMI]

i may have had the worst luck in scopes ever. They all fuckin break on me. Even the schmidt’s.

I’m aware the XTR II is made by AO.
Both frankly. if you have to go with an Asian Optical scope, I would select the XTR II.

Its possible the new Nikon AO made stuff will be ok.

It seems the only maker that hasn’t been almost completely unreliable for me is Nightforce.

I have owned the Razor HD II 3-18, PST G1 4-16, 3 2.5-10 PSTs and a strike eagle 1-8.

2 of the 2.5-10s are the only ones that didn’t break in some way.

i had an xtr ii grenade on me. And my Hensoldt. and the zeiss.

At least good customer service is the norm in the optics business - although i would be happier if i hadn’t spent $1856 in the last 5 years shipping broken optics back to companies.

LOL! Maybe you should pick up another hobby, becauase this one seems to not like you wrt to scopes. I've beat the crap out of my Razors and XTR (a loaner that others have beaten on) and none of them have ever had issues. Same for the 5 or 6 SWFA scopes I have. Sounds like you might have the MOS "9999" (aka "unlucky cocksucker").

 

[trob_205]

Its a great choice for optics in that price range. Just remember any scope in that price range has the oppo to go tits up. So unfortunately you should be taking what warranty is the best into consideration as well. I’m a huge Vortex fan but because of the amount of scopes sold you’ll see issues reported. Failure rate is a percentage not a solid number so when you sell 28492920 scopes at a 3-5% failure rate you’ll see a lot more failures than a line that’s has sold 26283 scopes with a 3-5% failure rate. Was going to pick up a PST 2 5-25 for my backup gun but found a good deal on a Leupold VX3-LRP 6.5-20 FFP with CCH retical, so I’m taking a chance on it just like I would be taking on the PST Gen 2.

My Gen 2 Razor 4.5-27 and 1-6 has been an awesome scopes. I’ve had one issue with a gen 1 pst 2.5-10. But vortex was excellent to deal with and I was given a new scope that has since been great and a work horse on my 450 BM hunting guns (MICHIGAN resident)

 

[Birddog6424]

I'll stay in my lane and not address the PST G2 durability, but I can speak for the XTR II. I know the number we have returned to the factory is EXTREMELY low.. Do they break? Of course, they are a mechanical device with fine adjustments. But Burris takes an extra step in hand inspecting each XTR II in Greeley before they ship out. They don't just spot check on each batch.

And they've made some really good strides on glass improvement. I never hear of folks experiencing the inability to properly focus or to resolve parallax as they did early on. The glass on all mine that are <2 years old is quite clear.

I know a lot of folks feel that you give up durability in the less expensive price points, but the durability and reliability track record of the XTR II is one that any scope manufacturer at any price point would be proud to have.

 

[MarinePMI]

Interesting. Would this improvement in glass/parallax over the early generation XTR II's, allow an early scope to be sent back in for replacement?

 

[Birddog6424]

Interesting. Would this improvement in glass/parallax over the early generation XTR II's, allow an early scope to be sent back in for replacement?

It's always worth a shot. Get CS on the phone and tell them what you're thinking..

 

[koshkin]

I'll stay in my lane and not address the PST G2 durability, but I can speak for the XTR II. I know the number we have returned to the factory is EXTREMELY low.. Do they break? Of course, they are a mechanical device with fine adjustments. But Burris takes an extra step in hand inspecting each XTR II in Greeley before they ship out. They don't just spot check on each batch.

And they've made some really good strides on glass improvement. I never hear of folks experiencing the inability to properly focus or to resolve parallax as they did early on. The glass on all mine that are <2 years old is quite clear.

I know a lot of folks feel that you give up durability in the less expensive price points, but the durability and reliability track record of the XTR II is one that any scope manufacturer at any price point would be proud to have.

I'll second that. I have been tracking how XTR II does for a while now and in terms of mechanical performance, they have been exceedingly good and very robust.

Glass looks improved, although there is still room to grow. I am sure Burris is keeping track of all of that as they work on the next generation.

ILya

 

[Glassaholic]

i may have had the worst luck in scopes ever. They all fuckin break on me. Even the schmidt’s.

Remind me never to buy a scope from you in the B&S forum

Interesting experience wrt the XTR II; I wonder what changed? (I have an early one that is...meh...in the glass department.)

Mine exhibited the same optical aberration that BigJim experienced in his review on opticsthoughts.com, it was really strange, if you had your eye just perfect it was amazing in resolution, but move just slightly and it was get distorted. I used it for about a year and then bought a Schmidt Ultra Short 5-20 that was just amazing, I ended up selling that XTR II and feeling it "could" have been a great scope because I liked everything else about it. I've shied away from XTR II's since then but the consistent positive feedback from birddog and others caused me to want to get a new one and give it another try, so I just picked up another (arrived last week in fact) from eurooptic.com and so far I cannot find the same aberrations that plagued my early version. As far as I know Burris has not announced a "change" to their design, but that doesn't mean they might have fixed some issues they had early on (reminds me of Steiner with the T5Xi and since they have the same parent maybe this is just how they operate). Until I get it out to the range I won't know for sure, but so far so good on the "new" XTR II...

 

[The King]

i only sell scopes once they are back from the manufacturer lol

Remind me never to buy a scope from you in the B&S forum


Mine exhibited the same optical aberration that BigJim experienced in his review on opticsthoughts.com, it was really strange, if you had your eye just perfect it was amazing in resolution, but move just slightly and it was get distorted. I used it for about a year and then bought a Schmidt Ultra Short 5-20 that was just amazing, I ended up selling that XTR II and feeling it "could" have been a great scope because I liked everything else about it. I've shied away from XTR II's since then but the consistent positive feedback from birddog and others caused me to want to get a new one and give it another try, so I just picked up another (arrived last week in fact) from eurooptic.com and so far I cannot find the same aberrations that plagued my early version. As far as I know Burris has not announced a "change" to their design, but that doesn't mean they might have fixed some issues they had early on (reminds me of Steiner with the T5Xi and since they have the same parent maybe this is just how they operate). Until I get it out to the range I won't know for sure, but so far so good on the "new" XTR II...

 

[Glassaholic]

i only sell scopes once they are back from the manufacturer lol

Oh okay, good to know Just playing with you as it does sound like you've had very bad luck with scopes out of the box.

 

[fdkay]

i only sell scopes once they are back from the manufacturer lol

Don't open the box!

 

[lash]

Don't open the box!

Better resale value!

 

[The King]

Lol. i wonder if i’m just the bitter divorcee who is mad at all women (scopes).

i look at every one i have with a bit of the stink eye, just waiting for the reticle lens to fall out, or the power ring to grind to a halt, or or or.

 

[Zcann1]

Its a great choice for optics in that price range. Just remember any scope in that price range has the oppo to go tits up. So unfortunately you should be taking what warranty is the best into consideration as well. I’m a huge Vortex fan but because of the amount of scopes sold you’ll see issues reported. Failure rate is a percentage not a solid number so when you sell 28492920 scopes at a 3-5% failure rate you’ll see a lot more failures than a line that’s has sold 26283 scopes with a 3-5% failure rate. Was going to pick up a PST 2 5-25 for my backup gun but found a good deal on a Leupold VX3-LRP 6.5-20 FFP with CCH retical, so I’m taking a chance on it just like I would be taking on the PST Gen 2.

My Gen 2 Razor 4.5-27 and 1-6 has been an awesome scopes. I’ve had one issue with a gen 1 pst 2.5-10. But vortex was excellent to deal with and I was given a new scope that has since been great and a work horse on my 450 BM hunting guns (MICHIGAN resident)[/QUOTE

Please let me know how that Lrp with the CCH reticle actually works out for you.. it was my first choice but I was talked out of buying it because I could pick up the Sig Tango 4 for $799 with the illuminated reticle.. thanks zcann

 

[Redeye3]

Ive owned 3 of these, each one runs flawless and a huge step up from gen1

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I am currently running 3 Vortexes - Gen-1 Razor 5-20, Gen-2 Viper PST 3-15, and Gen-2 Viper PST 5-25. Had a Gen-1 Strike Eagle and a Gen-1 Viper PST 2.5-10. No issues with any of them. The current ones track just fine, as did the ones I upgraded. I shoot twice a week on average. These are not safe queens.

My son bought a well-used Gen-1 Strike Eagle from LGS at a good price. Mounted it and took it to range - there was something wrong with the glass that was not obvious looking through it at the store. Vortex had a brand-new one for us at the store the next day.

Here's a March 2017 article from Precision Rifle Blog about which top-tier shooters are running what scopes. Vortex must be doing something right (or they sponsor a lot of people; I don't know). At the end ot the article, it notes that the Viper PSTs do well in the relatively new Production division.

 

[CSTactical]

We've had a couple of Gen II PST's that had some QC problems when they were first release but we're well past that and they have been solid ever since.

 

[Thunderhorse]

I had the same thing going through my mind as I was looking heavily at the G2 PSTs; I ended up just splurging for a G1 Razor HD, but a lot of what helped with that decision was the insane 36 MRAD/125 MOA of adjustment afforded by the 35mm tube. Hope you like Seekins rings though, because 35mm isn't a common ring size (Seekins makes fantastic rings)

 

[LunaCustomGuns]

It’s a decent scope, but like other commenters have stated, it’s not built to last. That being said I actually toured the Vortex facility in WI and they are world class manufacturers so you will still get a quality scope.

 

[Drew890]

... it’s not built to last.

Please elaborate on this statement more. What is the round expectancy that you are basing this on? What amount of usage did you get out of yours before it failed?

 

[LunaCustomGuns]

Please elaborate on this statement more. What is the round expectancy that you are basing this on? What amount of usage did you get out of yours before it failed?

So I’ll be honest, I have never owned one. Our rental guns ran PSTs and so I only had occasion to shoot the PST a handful of times. My main scope is a Kahles K624i and I have handled a few gen 2s, so my opinion is based on my observations on the differences in feel between the PST and gen 2 and the Kahles. While the PST doesn’t feel cheap, it absolutely does not feel as solidly built as the gen 2 or tha Kahles. The glass is not as good and eye relief is not nearly as forgiving. The turrets seemed OK, as well as the reticle, I am also biased because it is a bit of a chore to switch between FFP and SFP.

So I am biased because I am comparing the PST to much more expensive, higher end scopes, and when comparing it to those scopes, it does not feel like it is as solidly built.

I suppose I should have stated that on its own the PST seems like a decent scope that should provide a good experience for anyone that buys/uses it.

 

[MarinePMI]

There's nothing wrong or cheap with the PST Gen 2, especially when you consider the price point of $1000. The Razor Gen 2's and Kahles are easily $1000-$1500 more. That's a big delta in price to be comparing the PST IMHO.

 

[JLP.Payette]

Ive been running a Gen2 PST 5-25 all year with out a single issue. In total I have 2 PST gen1s and 2 PST gen 2s and never had an issue with any of them. Id buy with confidence.

 

[Gohring65]

I don’t know if it’s been mentioned.
But if you buy one and it runs flawlessly, you’re good. If it needs repaired, send it back and let them repair it. Once a scope goes back for repair, it’s gone thru extensively, so it doesn’t come back. So once they go thru the mill they are often way better than new. I used vortex’s warranty and from the time I sent it back with overnight shipping and the time I had it back on my rig was 4 days. They matched my shippping.
After all that, I went with a XTR2 and it’s a tank. I haven’t forgot how well Vortex treated me though.

 

[IanHusaberg]

No issues with my gen 2 5-25x50. 250 rounds of my reloads and 143 Eld-x out of my 6.5 Tikka 6.5 CM. Scope has been in a spuhr mount. Happy as a clam. What's to worry about with CS and Warranty?

 

[Adam4pt6]

I have the pst gen2 5-25. I would estimate about 1000 rounds through some rifles with it sitting on it and I've had no issues with mine at all. And I know you mentioned you are aware of their warranty, but just to have one more person say it they're awesome, so if you do run into any kind of issue you can be confident that they will take care of you.

I currently have 4 vortex products and am more than happy with all of them