Don't be like California- Police to be at least 25 and have a 4 year degree

[hermosabeach]

Some states don't want to hire officers that are too smart as the quit the department and follow other opportunities...

US Court Ruling: You Can Be "Too Smart" to Be a Cop - Global Research

Relevant to the present crisis, this article was first published on GR on December 18, 2014 Can a person actually be “too smart” to be a cop in America? “Considering all the police brutality and officer-involved shootings in the news these days, here’s a rhetorical question for you: how well...

www.globalresearch.ca

California - is looking to make it harder to find officers....

Calif. cops would have to be 25 or get bachelor's degree under new proposal (police1.com)

SNIP
Calif. cops would have to be 25 or get bachelor's degree under new proposal
If passed, California would have the highest age requirement for peace officers in the country

Reggie Jones-Sawyer, D-Los Angeles, who planned to introduce the proposal Monday, said the change could help reduce the number of times police officers shoot or hurt people.

"These jobs are complex, they're difficult, and we should not just hand them over to people who haven't fully developed themselves," said Jones-Sawyer, who is chairman of the Assembly Public Safety Committee.

Under current state law, peace officers have to be 18 years old and must have a high school diploma or the equivalent. California Highway Patrol officers have to be 20.

 

[hermosabeach]

Reggie Jones-Sawyer - Wikipedia

 

[Blue Sky Country]

A Democrat's answer to fixing the broken plumbing in a building would be to seal up the buttholes of it's residents so nobody will have to use the toilets...

 

[hlee]

A Democrat's answer to fixing the broken plumbing in a building would be to seal up the buttholes of it's residents so nobody will have to use the toilets...

Works for North Korea...

'Kim Jong-un doesn’t poo': Crazy facts all North Korea MUST believe – or else

NORTH Korea’s nuke-mad leaders have never taken a pee or a poo – and it gets even weirder than that.

www.dailystar.co.uk

 

[Blue Sky Country]

Works for North Korea...

'Kim Jong-un doesn’t poo': Crazy facts all North Korea MUST believe – or else

NORTH Korea’s nuke-mad leaders have never taken a pee or a poo – and it gets even weirder than that.

www.dailystar.co.uk

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Sounds to me that a similar requirement must be stipulated for politicians in that area. They must be at least 65 years of age, they have had to have owned their own business for at least 20 years, taught University/Trade school for at least 20 years, and have been in a voluntary leadership roll for at least 20 years.

Oh, one other thing. They must also have had cancer, been through the process, and tested 'clear' for at least 2 years.

This way, they'll be in a position to make decisions based on actual knowledge, experience, history, and initiative. And at that age, you know you're not going to be stuck with them forever.

 

[Jack's Dad]

I see no down side to this proposal. The lack of required education to become and maintain the badge is laughable. A nurse holds a similar position in society. Nurses need a four year degree, pass national tests, background checks, have semi-annual relicensing, and need close to a hundred hours a year in continuing education. Maybe we won't be bitching so much about police officers if they actually make it a challenge to become one.

 

[Steve_In_29]

I predict a serious shortage of police officers in the not too distant future after the Bill passes. Along with the need to increase pay/benefits to fill openings.

 

[M8541Reaper]

I see no issue with increasing hiring requirements for LE, Mil, or Fire. That said, if you want an experienced applicant, you better be offering a wage/benefits package and leadership team that reflects the requirements.

If you don’t address the hiring and screening process for public safety positions, your problems will remain unchanged. A piece of paper, crippling debt from said piece of paper, and 24 years of consuming oxygen doesn’t mean shit unless your department has a solid vetting policy.

Everyone laughs at Florida Man but fuckin Florida Man isn’t destroying his own state, acting shocked when it becomes rundown shit, and then jumps to another state to escape it...

 

[DOA]

I see no down side to this proposal. The lack of required education to become and maintain the badge is laughable. A nurse holds a similar position in society. Nurses need a four year degree, pass national tests, background checks, have semi-annual relicensing, and need close to a hundred hours a year in continuing education. Maybe we won't be bitching so much about police officers if they actually make it a challenge to become one.

Have you been through the process to become a LEO in CA? It's not exactly a cakewalk like some other states.

 

[Rant Durden]

Having fairly recently retired from said LEO position in the formerly great state of Kalifornia, I would say it's not a bad idea on it's face, but I'm not sure now is the best time to shallow out the applicant pool. Most departments already have incentive programs and it's pretty hard to go past a line level supervisor without at least a BA.
The idea is that our coppers aren't smart enough or experienced enough to deal with the shit when it goes pear shaped. Actually most are and most do. Most of the incidents that make the news are not boots fresh out of the academy. I really am not a fan of making a college degree a requirement for most jobs, it's not necessary and creates an often false image of competency.
Wanna make policing better? TRAINING!!! Make every cop do combative training i.e. jujitsu, boxing etc on a regular consistent basis. Make every cop do scenario based training on a regular basis. I was fortunate enough to be on several street level teams and we did a bunch of training and took classes paid for by the state and often out of our own pockets. Putting your hands on someone and going through scenarios on a regular basis builds confidence and professionalism.
Unfortunately it's expensive to do this stuff and a bunch of folks get injured in training (I did, but the pins and screws have held). it's just way easier to blame a lack of education and try to march the boots to some commie U.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I see no issue with increasing hiring requirements for LE, Mil, or Fire. That said, if you want an experienced applicant, you better be offering a wage/benefits package and leadership team that reflects the requirements.

If you don’t address the hiring and screening process for public safety positions, your problems will remain unchanged. A piece of paper, crippling debt from said piece of paper, and 24 years of consuming oxygen doesn’t mean shit unless your department has a solid vetting policy.

Everyone laughs at Florida Man but fuckin Florida Man isn’t destroying his own state, acting shocked when it becomes rundown shit, and then jumps to another state to escape it...

Yeah, the fucked up part about Florida man is that too many people are moving here and trying to fuck it up.
Thankfully we currently have a great Governor who doesn't tolerate too much bullshit.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I see no down side to this proposal. The lack of required education to become and maintain the badge is laughable. A nurse holds a similar position in society. Nurses need a four year degree, pass national tests, background checks, have semi-annual relicensing, and need close to a hundred hours a year in continuing education. Maybe we won't be bitching so much about police officers if they actually make it a challenge to become one.

And that required education ensures every nurse does their job without accidents, incidents or any negligence, right?
Pull your head outta the sand.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Having fairly recently retired from said LEO position in the formerly great state of Kalifornia, I would say it's not a bad idea on it's face, but I'm not sure now is the best time to shallow out the applicant pool. Most departments already have incentive programs and it's pretty hard to go past a line level supervisor without at least a BA.
The idea is that our coppers aren't smart enough or experienced enough to deal with the shit when it goes pear shaped. Actually most are and most do. Most of the incidents that make the news are not boots fresh out of the academy. I really am not a fan of making a college degree a requirement for most jobs, it's not necessary and creates an often false image of competency.
Wanna make policing better? TRAINING!!! Make every cop do combative training i.e. jujitsu, boxing etc on a regular consistent basis. Make every cop do scenario based training on a regular basis. I was fortunate enough to be on several street level teams and we did a bunch of training and took classes paid for by the state and often out of our own pockets. Putting your hands on someone and going through scenarios on a regular basis builds confidence and professionalism.
Unfortunately it's expensive to do this stuff and a bunch of folks get injured in training (I did, but the pins and screws have held). it's just way easier to blame a lack of education and try to march the boots to some commie U.

Have you noticed the supposed issue with police officers is almost exclusively from shithole Democrat controlled cities?
Hmmmm...

 

[M8541Reaper]

Yeah, the fucked up part about Florida man is that too many people are moving here and trying to fuck it up.
Thankfully we currently have a great Governor who doesn't tolerate too much bullshit.

Florida will soon become the next California. Buy property because that shit is only going to go up.

 

[pmclaine]

That's weird my state did away with awarding education through paying more.

New guys are limited on what they will make.

Say all you want about the job is done for duty but we will be getting bouncers for cops soon and good candidates will go elsewhere.

State used to be the place kids wanted to go to be cops, now they look for towns that give them education benefits.

 

[HousePlant]

One of the few things on CA that I kind of agree with. Maybe not 24... I would have made it 22 which is the age you "should" graduate with a bachelor's degree (if you do your 4-years straight up). I would think an Associate's degree in a specialized form of criminal justice would be fine.

I kind of hope that this results in police officers getting paid far better than they do. THAT is what will attract better talent, especially in cities.

There's no way in hell I'm paying tuition for a 4-year degree and then heading off to make $45K (if I'm lucky) to get shot at in a city. No way.

On the opposing view, unless I'm missing something, it isn't the "youngest" officers that are the perceived problem. It's the older ones.

 

[vinniedelpino]

One of the few things on CA that I kind of agree with. Maybe not 24... I would have made it 22 which is the age you "should" graduate with a bachelor's degree (if you do your 4-years straight up). I would think an Associate's degree in a specialized form of criminal justice would be fine.

I kind of hope that this results in police officers getting paid far better than they do. THAT is what will attract better talent, especially in cities.

There's no way in hell I'm paying tuition for a 4-year degree and then heading off to make $45K (if I'm lucky) to get shot at in a city. No way.

On the opposing view, unless I'm missing something, it isn't the "youngest" officers that are the perceived problem. It's the older ones.

I respectfully disagree. More money does NOT buy you top talent. Not under our current system anyway. Here in NC law enforcement is paid like crap but I find them to be stand up men and women. They're also generally fit, cordial and fair from what I've seen.

Here's the pay from glassdoor.com for officers in my old county:

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Suffolk-County-Police-Salaries-E485308.htm

They were generally morbidly obese, virtually impossible to get rid of for misconduct and lazy as hell. When I was in school I had to cross the railroad tracks to get home. The nearest crossing section was about about 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile out of the way, so one of the kids in my neighborhood carried a pair of tin snips in his backpack. He'd walk up to the fence, cut a vertical line long enough for us to slip through and repeat the process on the other side. We'd be home about 15 minutes earlier.

They put an officer in a parking lot about 50 feet away across the street to deter this. We'd walk past him, he'd mean mug us, said kid would cut the fence and he'd hang out of the window and yell at us to stop because he was too disgustingly fat to get his ass out of the car and chase us. After about a few weeks of this they just stopped patching the fence. He's probably retired now (at 45) at 50% pension in NC of FL with a new boat and decked out pickup to tow it.

If you want top talent, you need to be able to trim the fat. If you suck, you're fired. If you're too fat to hop a fence, you're fired. Unable to interact with people in a reasonable manner? Fired. Better yet, never hired in the first place. Free up those resources for new candidates and existing capable officers. I'm as pro law enforcement as they come. I don't want to see budget cuts or restrictions placed on officers. I do, however, want to see those resources allocated efficiently and that's a huge problem right now.

 

[Mike Casselton]

^^^^^^^
I don't disagree with you.
However, discussing the cause and effect could turn this thread into a union bashing thread instead.

 

[vinniedelpino]

^^^^^^^
I don't disagree with you.
However, discussing the cause and effect could turn this thread into a union bashing thread instead.

Maybe so. My point was more so that increasing budgets and passing new legislation is rarely the best answer to our problems.

 

[918v]

Democrats have seized control of the administrative state, the fourth branch of government. They turned it into an overly complicated system. They did this so the public would not be able to understand it. Only lawyers and experts working within the
are able to understand it. Therefore, it follows they want highly educated individuals to work there. Highly educated personnel is better able to conform to this new complex system because they are “enlightened” and indoctrinated by the commies running the universities. They come ready to do the system’s bidding.

Having worked within the system for the last 25 years I have seen the evolution of law enforcement policy from simple to complex. What used to be a sentence is now a paragraph. What used to be a paragraph is now a chapter. They are using a uniform policy code and more and more police departments are adopting it.

I understand that much of this is due to lawsuits but it would be far better to get rid of the bad apples than terrorizing everyone else.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Maybe so. My point was more so that increasing budgets and passing new legislation is rarely the best answer to our problems.

Waitaminnit! Are you actually trying to convince me that making up bullshit rules and throwing money at problems doesn't fix it?

What is happening to this world?

 

[BLEE]

Neither are needed for the job, but I can see requiring an associates degree, or equivalent experience, from another organization, or military police. Better psychological screening and scenario reactions should be used to determine a candidates suitability for local law enforcement. There's no amount of education, or age that will negate a personality that just is not suited for the job. The way to make a good officer better, is to train, train and train some more.

 

[ken226]

Not sure here that requiring police officers to have a certificate of liberal indoctrination is the best idea.

I guess if you want the kind of cops who will enforce liberal policies! Which kind of cop is more likely to jump on the gun confiscation bandwagon? The prior military guy or the liberal arts degree guy?

Because the guy with a degree in mechanical engineering can probably find something that pays better. The guy with a 4 year degree in sucking farts out of seat cushions would love the sudden increase in jobs he's qualified for.

No offense to all the Gender Studies majors here.

 

[Aaros143]

Thats kinda funny. Some of the agencies in my area that used to be real hot on having a degree are now steering toward candidates that don't

 

[supercorndogs]

You need that college debt if you want to have any kind of career path.

 

[DOA]

One of the few things on CA that I kind of agree with. Maybe not 24... I would have made it 22 which is the age you "should" graduate with a bachelor's degree (if you do your 4-years straight up). I would think an Associate's degree in a specialized form of criminal justice would be fine.

I kind of hope that this results in police officers getting paid far better than they do. THAT is what will attract better talent, especially in cities.

There's no way in hell I'm paying tuition for a 4-year degree and then heading off to make $45K (if I'm lucky) to get shot at in a city. No way.

On the opposing view, unless I'm missing something, it isn't the "youngest" officers that are the perceived problem. It's the older ones.

Starting pay in CA without a degree is $75k. It goes up quite a bit after that. Definitely do-able in CA depending on where you live.

 

[HousePlant]

Well then... in my area it’s like... $40K. Fuck no.

 

[Steve_In_29]

Starting pay in CA without a degree is $75k. It goes up quite a bit after that. Definitely do-able in CA depending on where you live.

In some areas of CA $75K won't let you live in the area you work in.

 

[W54/XM-388]

In Texas it's interesting that you can become a police officer with a whole lot less hours of training than to become a hairdresser...

 

[clcustom1911]

Some states don't want to hire officers that are too smart as the quit the department and follow other opportunities...

US Court Ruling: You Can Be "Too Smart" to Be a Cop - Global Research

Relevant to the present crisis, this article was first published on GR on December 18, 2014 Can a person actually be “too smart” to be a cop in America? “Considering all the police brutality and officer-involved shootings in the news these days, here’s a rhetorical question for you: how well...

www.globalresearch.ca

California - is looking to make it harder to find officers....

Calif. cops would have to be 25 or get bachelor's degree under new proposal (police1.com)

SNIP
Calif. cops would have to be 25 or get bachelor's degree under new proposal
If passed, California would have the highest age requirement for peace officers in the country

Reggie Jones-Sawyer, D-Los Angeles, who planned to introduce the proposal Monday, said the change could help reduce the number of times police officers shoot or hurt people.

"These jobs are complex, they're difficult, and we should not just hand them over to people who haven't fully developed themselves," said Jones-Sawyer, who is chairman of the Assembly Public Safety Committee.

Under current state law, peace officers have to be 18 years old and must have a high school diploma or the equivalent. California Highway Patrol officers have to be 20.

Ummmm..... current regs say cops in California need to be 20 1/2 at the beginning of the police academy, which is 6 months long, so they are 21 when they are sworn in (pistol law regulations)

Wherever you got your info is completely wrong.

Signed

- California cop from 2009-2019.

 

[Jgunner]

Cops in cali are the worst i have ever met. Not by a small margin. If you dont know the rules and law there, they will fuck you. That starts at the top and has to be trained in. Its that bad, or at least was, but i am not testing the theory, ill just stay out of that state and be just fine.

 

[clcustom1911]

Cops in cali are the worst i have ever met. Not by a small margin. If you dont know the rules and law there, they will fuck you. That starts at the top and has to be trained in. Its that bad, or at least was, but i am not testing the theory, ill just stay out of that state and be just fine.

So, what you're saying is if you break the law, you get in trouble?


Man, that's crazy.

 

[Supersubes]

We can’t get quality applicants as it is, shrinking the eligible pool would screw us over hard. Just can’t be done imo. More training is cool and all, but staffing is so bad as it is, much of the time it’s just not possible.

Even with cost of living in Cali, if you can’t get by on a cop salary, you’re just really bad with money. I’d imagine we’re smoking the average 4yr graduate. I could be wrong.

 

[kl3309]

Wanna make policing better? TRAINING!!! Make every cop do combative training i.e. jujitsu, boxing etc on a regular consistent basis.

That works for motivated individuals in teams that work together on a regular, or maybe even regular officers in smaller departments. Where it doesn't work is in larger departments where a lot of the officers are there just for the paycheck. Those folks will use that training session as an opportunity to get "hurt" and get off the street. Do it right and you can (where I worked) get close to a year (paid) in a limited duty status somewhere away from your patrol district before you have to go in front of any kind of medical review board. (Somehow, there are (usually female) officers that are able to pull this off year after year and are never seen on the street ever again.)

 

[WaywardSon]

Cops in cali are the worst i have ever met. Not by a small margin. If you dont know the rules and law there, they will fuck you. That starts at the top and has to be trained in. Its that bad, or at least was, but i am not testing the theory, ill just stay out of that state and be just fine.

Respectfully:

 

[DocRDS]

What does having a college degree show? That you have a lot of money or the ability to take on lots of loans?

We think college is some magical panacea that turns people into adults. It doesn't

Yes I have a Bachelor and a PhD and studied a very focused area. There are a TON of options that don't require it.
Computer science has figured out you don't need 2 years of a forgein language and 30 hours of French poetry to write a program. In fact MOST of my undergrad was worthless bullshit.
Let me take a year of English AGAIN. (You know the l language I was required to take 4 years of in high school)
Let me take technical writing AGAIN (The same language I was required to take in high school AND a year of at college)
Let me take World History AGAIN (High School)
Let me take US History AGAIN (High School)
The difference from the first time? Cost a lot more money.

My first year of grad school was a repeat of my last year of college. O great lets take Quantum Mechanics, Electro Magnetism and Mechanics AGAIN. I wonder if changed in the last 12 months. Nope. Same damn textbook even.

Maybe instead of diversity office and more admin, we setup police technical college and teach police to be uhhhhh police. A car mechanic doesn't need a degree--that need to learn engines. My best friend knows a ton about engines--way the hell more than I could hope to learn. Learned it in the army. Got paid to do it. Who's the smart guy now.

Going to college isn't training to be a police officer. You aren't learning any usable skills. Its voodoo fairy dust that people think college is this magic place that turns out fully formed individuals.

College is one of the biggest rackets foisted upon the american taxpayer. Cause we fund all those damn loans and all those loans fund waaay overy priced return on investment. College cost is through the roof way ahead of inflation.

Yes I learned to be an A+ experimental physicist. But there was no class. It was me learning ON THE JOB from my professor. It was me learning ON THE JOB from the machine shop. None of those guys had degrees. Pro tip: All the equipment that discovers fancy crazy particles: built by guys with no college degree. And you bet your ass I am proud they taught me too.

But college in CA is free some a-hole will say.

Repeat after me:
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE LUNCH

You'd learn that if you took a REAL economics class.

Don't get me started on MBAs.....

 

[Hateca]

My dad use to say some of the dumbest people he knew were college educated. I found this, in some cases, to be very true. I’m a retired cop and I worked with cops with degrees, and some of them couldn’t get out of their own way, a degree does not, and is no guarantee, you are going to get a better cop.

Take a look around at our colleges and what type of students they are producing these days do you really want some of these idiots as cops?

So what they are proposing is get a bunch of college educated basement dwellers who have been indoctrinated in liberal schools who may have college debt and recruit them to entry level law enforcement. Yeah right, they can’t get cops now.

The only thing I see coming from this is less cops and the ones they do get will fall right in line with their progressive liberal crap.

I’m so glad I’m retired.

 

[DocRDS]

My dad use to say some of the dumbest people he knew were college educated. I found this, in some cases, to be very true. I’m a retired cop and I worked with cops with degrees, and some of them couldn’t get out of their own way, a degree does not, and is no guarantee, you are going to get a better cop.

Take a look around at our colleges and what type of students they are producing these days do you really want some of these idiots as cops?

So what they are proposing is get a bunch of college educated basement dwellers who have been indoctrinated in liberal schools who may have college debt and recruit them to entry level law enforcement. Yeah right, they can’t get cops now.

The only thing I see coming from this is less cops and the ones they do get will fall right in line with their progressive liberal crap.

I’m so glad I’m retired.

There is a TON of truth in that.

When I first worked at Intel there was a lot of mistrust between the technicians and the "Engineers" and i put that in quotes as most of the engineers had never actually held a tool beyond maybe a volt-meter. Everyone thinks that physics is a bunch of invory tower idiots, but the truth was we had to build all our equipment custom so I learned everything from high voltage wiring to machine shop work. But I still had to earn the trust of my techs because 99% of those engineers were indeed worthless with a tool. Most companies like TI don't allow process engineers to work on equipment. My equipment guy hated me as I could tell him what was wrong and estimate how long it took to repair.