Range Report Dot drill kicking my butt

[Slippery_Pete]

Took the GAP out this week to try and smoke the dot target with an F1 I got to replace my SS 3-9x. I thought a little more mag would tighten things up. It did a little, but not where I'd like to be yet. It's honest though.

I was using Federal 7.62x51 175s, and I have noticed they are not as accurate from my gun as the 168s or the handload 175s I had made up. The cases are pretty beat up and they just look like crap. But they don't shoot that bad. I will use the handloads next time.

I can't seem to get comfortable shooting off their benches either and that's the only option. This dot drill is nerve racking. I'll get a few in a row and then chump one.

The targets were stacked just like pictured. The last target I got pissed and gave up, and just tried my best for 8 rounds on that bottom left circle. By that time my concentration had gone. (And that 2nd row on the bottom target is 4 rounds fired from right to left)

This is where I stand now, and I consider this a win for the Dot Drill. But so help me, I'll beat this son of a bitch. May not be today, may not be tomorrow, but it's time will come.

Temp- hot as hell. Over 100.
Wind- blowing hard but directly down range
Coffee- too much
Sleep- hung over from Stanley Cup final game

 

[Graham]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slippery_Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll get a few in a row and then chump one.</div></div>I don't see a few in a row. I see two good shots, a lot of breahting errors and trigger snatching. Finish breathing, then release the shot with your final focus on the crosshairs instead of consciously breaking the shot.

 

[Slippery_Pete]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

I am likely guilty of all that. Got work to do.

 

[phlii]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

The dot drill ain't easy. I have to really concentrate on maintaining my focus. When I'm done, I am wiped out. I've definitely improved my shooting, though. Stay with it.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see two good shots, a lot of breahting errors and trigger snatching. </div></div>

Trigger snatching was my read of that dot Drill.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

hey, at least you posted it up...I know mine would be worse than that...I am guilty of all of what Graham said and more. I am hunting good - within 300 yards. But, like any golfer, I keep trying every weekend.

 

[Graham]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

Don't get me wrong: It was a good first effort.

Pick one thing to work on, improve it dry until you do it correctly, then try the drill again live.

 

[match308]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

My drills were less than optimal with my Gap too, then I ponied up the coin for a Jewell trigger. Get one.

 

[Graham]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

It's not about the gun.

 

[0481]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

Its all the shooter

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

Pete,
I did the same thing as you last week with a new Crusader. The dot drill is not easy, no mistake about that. My Crusader is wearing an NF 5.5-22x50 in a Badger medium one piece ring set (0.885"), Atlas V8, and an Atlas BT01-QK rear monopod. It should be very close to the setup you're using, so I thought it might be helpful for you to see results from a similar setup.

After receiving the new rifle, all I did before shooting it was to mount the scope and run a couple of patches of Hoppe's through it. First day at the range, one of the things I did was a dot drill at 100 yd using FGMM 168s and a target I made with 0.5 MOA red spots in Powerpoint. Result = 10/15 "hits" (any hole touching a dot was counted as a hit). If you notice on the first target, the misses (#5, 6, 8, 11, and 13) are all to the right. Most of these were caused by me jerking the trigger and I knew they were probably misses as soon as I shot. But they're fairly consistent as misses go, which makes it a bit easier to diagnose what I did wrong. Same thing is true for two of the three misses on target #2.

The second day out, I tried another using Hornady 168 A-MAXs. Result = 12/15 "hits".

We're using essentially the same system, so the difference in our results is most probably <span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span> the rifle. IMO this GAP Crusader is the finest rifle I've ever shot, and I'm sure yours is made to the same high level of precision. So from looking at your targets, Graham has got it right. The misses appear to be in all directions from the dot, although there is somewhat of a trend in individual rows.

My first question is what kind of 5-shot groups can you obtain with that ammo in that weapon? My guess from your dot drill is going to be somewhere in the 1.25-1.50 MOA range. Can you do better than that with different ammo? I can tell you that I tested FGMM 175s and a couple other types of ammo on the first day with the Crusader, and the 168s outperformed the 175s markedly at both 100 and 600 yd. In any event, if you calculate what level of precision you would need in theory to hit every dot, it comes out that you need to be shooting in the neighborhood of 0.75 MOA (or better) to have all rounds touching the circles. Shooting a 15- or 20-round group of 0.75 MOA or less is not an easy task. It's a whole different ballgame from 3-, or even 5-shot groups of that level of precision.

I try to shoot this drill fairly often because it's fun, yet challenging. I'll be the first to admit that 10/15 or 12/15 hits is not that great. I think it takes a lot of balls to post some targets here where you might not have done so well, so my hat's off to you for that.

My suggestions are pretty similar to what Graham mentioned, mainly basic shooting fundamentals. First off, relax. Make sure you're breathing/shooting is what it should be. Make sure your squeezing the trigger properly, not jerking it, which is one likely cause of misses from looking at your targets. I start out by making sure I'm sighted in correctly at 100 yd on a separate target (I didn't put extra dots for that on my version) using 5 rounds or more, if necessary. This helps get myself and the rifle warmed up and ready for the dot drill. Once you've started, don't try to rush through the dots on the target, they're not going anywhere. With my 15-dot targets, I'll probably go through one row (one 5-round mag) in a couple to three minutes or so. Then I take a break for a couple minutes while the barrel cools a bit and load a new mag. Also, I do not normally make scope adjustments after starting, that is what proper sight in is for. If I see a consistent trend in misses for a few shots, I'll try to correct with a small holdover rather than a turret adjustment.

An important part of this drill is to develop a consistent rhythm, along with proper breathing, hold, and trigger pull. My final suggestion would be to <span style="font-style: italic">keep at it</span>! No question that you have a rifle capable of cleaning the dots. So with a little practice, you'll get better. The good part is that as you improve, it feeds on itself and motivates you to do better. Everything you pick up from doing this drill will also translate into other aspects of your shooting, so good luck and thanks for the post.

 

[Slippery_Pete]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

I appreciate the kind words and the majority of what has been said I agree with. It's the indian not the arrow. 0 pride here. I found it especially difficult to get myself "set" on the Elm Fork benches. The chairs were low and the bench high, but I know it's much more than that (I can come up with excuses all day long). I had next to no patience that day. I've shot this drill 2 other times with my SS 3-9x, both 40 rounds each, and the results are about the same, even with the better ammo.

Nice rifle gstaylorg. Can't say what my groups have been in the past as I don't measure, but that 8 rounder is not far off. I have done a little better in the past.

It's great to get feedback, and to be able to get constructive critisism around here is very helpful.

"Trigger snatch" is a term I was unfamiliar with, but the concept is clear to me. And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't fully aware of trying to rush my shot to line up at times. Back to the dry firing.

 

[ubet]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

Pony up the money for the online training, its worth ten times more than what you will pay, and severly cuts down on wasted ammo.

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

One more suggestion: I purchased an IOTA (Indoor Optical Tarining Aid) several months ago and have recently been practicing with it fairly regularly. IMO, it was well worth every penny. If you jerk the trigger even slightly, you can see what you did plain as day. Obviously there are differences between dry fire and live fire, but if you can't keep the crosshair still during a dry fire excercise trigger pull, chances are much greater you'll pull it even worse with live rounds. Iota link below:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2586751&page=1

 

[Slippery_Pete]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

That looks like a great idea. I'll give that a try.

 

[Grand]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

I assume to adjusted parallax before shooting?

 

[Slippery_Pete]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

I did adjust the parallax. This is my first time shooting that scope, so I put it where it looked right. I moved my head around and wasn't seeing any problem.

 

[boltstop]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slippery_Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">snip

The chairs were low and the bench high, but I know it's much more than that (I can come up with excuses all day long).

snip


</div></div>

Sandbag your chair.

I have discovered this solution at the range and IT WORKS!

 

[netranger6]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

Or...hit the prone if that range will let you, just lay out under the shooting table.

 

[Super Bee 950]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

The best thing you can do is go out and buy a 22 bolt gun, Aguila Super Colibri ammo, and a steel bullet box. Shoot at a 1/4 inch dot target from 25-50 feet away, and try to max it with that. You will learn so much about your shooting habbits that it will amaze you. If you cant kill 1/4 inch dots with 6 cent ammo, dont try doing it with expensive 308 ammo.

I speak from experience...
The Army started sending me to bullseye pistol matches, and I really sucked at it the first time out. To avoid further embarrasement, I started practicing with the .22 Colibri ammo, and one inch dot targets in the garage. It has really paid off big time. I didnt realize how bad I was jerking the trigger, and it took about 400 rounds before I was able to break the habbit. I now shoot the Colibri ammo in the garage almost every day to build the muscle memory. Force yourself to pull the trigger at half your normal speed, and I bet your groups look a lot better.

 

[taseal]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

You shoot in your garage?!

Eta: looked up the ammo, looks like bb on steroids.

It says not to shoot that ammo through a rifle though. Says it can be lodged...

And it would really suck if you miss the steel box!

 

[Super Bee 950]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

It shoots just fine in a rifle with a 20 inch barrel. I think that is more of a liability statement than reality.

Dont use a 12 inch box if you can only shoot 20 inch groups...

 

[taseal]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

Hey man you never know. There are people who flinch and hot their chrono sometimes lol

 

[Mustafa]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

Ha! I smoked my 1st chrono on the very first round a few years ago! Suppressor came loose on me...D'oh!

As the dot drill goes...man it kicks my @ss!!! I shoot it at 50 yards with my Savage MkII and sub-sonic CCI ammo. If I don't do EVERYTHING perfect, ESPECIALLY follow through, my rounds go all over place! Drives me nuts! But, when I actually DO get everything right, it's pretty cool to watch that little round impact the paper! Keep at it! Of course, when you finally CAN clean it, it just means that it's time to start throwing in the extra variables of time limits, movement before shooting, and doing it all support side!

 

[turbo54]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It shoots just fine in a rifle with a 20 inch barrel. I think that is more of a liability statement than reality.

Dont use a 12 inch box if you can only shoot 20 inch groups... </div></div>

I've had this ammo squib in my rifle on a number of occasions. Each time, I realized what happened before taking another shot, and was easily able to "ramrod" the bullet out of the bore. Also, I HIGHLY, HIGHLY doubt firing one of these when there IS a squib stuck in the bore would cause any damage. These are insanely low pressure.

This ammo is QUIETER out of a bolt action rifle than a good pellet rifle. Its great!

 

[Ol' RD]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

Just my take on the dot drill. The real beauty of that target is it does force you to concentrate. If you search the picture gallery for dot drills you'll see mine. Not much better than yours. A .408 at the next bench can break more than just your concentration. It did my trigger snatching for me. LOL! Still like target though!

 

[jheat308]

Re: Dot drill kicking my butt

Going to start more dry fire before I post mine. Damn dot drill