Down parkas?
- Thread starter jericho
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Re: Down parkas?
Hi. I'm new to this forum, so please excuse me for starting off on a jacket related thread, rather than a topid that is more directly related to guns/shooting (I'll admit, it does seem sacrilegious to do things this way).
Anyway, I have had the MH Sub Zero SL Jacket for about 10 years, and I've been fairly happy with it. The jacket has a lot of loft, and is quite warm (not so much as their "Absolute Zero" line, but I don't assume you are planning to use this jacket at the North Pole, or on an ascent of an 8,000 meter peak). Nevertheless, I've used my coat on many winter backpacking trips, including high climbs in the Presidential Range in winter (Mt. Washington, etc), and many winter ascents of Colorado peaks (including some of our 14'ers).
My favorite part about the Sub Zero Jacket is its wonderful hood. The hood is very lofty, warm, and adjustable, and the jacket simply wouldn't be in the same league without it. I'm also happy with the wind/water resistance that is provided by the shell material on this garment. It isn't a rain coat to be sure, but it has protected me against plenty of slushy/wet snow squalls over the years.
My biggest gripe with the jacket is that the down has migrated a bit in the elbows, leaving a somewhat uninsulated layer near the fold of the elbow (of course, now the back of the elbow is even more insulated). Natuarally, with the down movement away from the inside of the elbow, arm movements are more natural and less constricted. But, it is also less warm in that one specific area. Honestly, it isn't too much of an issue if I've properly layered under the coat, but I think it's a point worth mentioning.
I have found that you can redistribute the down to some degree by tumble drying the jacket with a few tennis balls. I do this about once a year and it works fine. I just wish the baffling would have been designed a bit better in that elbow area (elsewhere in the jacket it is fine, and things may have changed in the design to correct this problem in the 10 years since I bought the jacket).
Now, to move this answer in a bit of shooting related direction:
Keep in mind that this garment was designed for mountaineering related activities. As such, the shell material is (intentionally) fairly lightweight. While that is great for packing the jacket, you might want to consider what you are going to be asking of this coat. Are you going to be traveling through thick underbrush that could snag and tear it? Are you going to be shooting from the prone position with it? If so, will you be on a shooting mat, or crawling through the brush?
I mention these points just because they are worth considering if you haven't ever touched one of the jackets to evaluate the shell material for your purposes. These are fine jackets, but I wouldn't want to belly crawl in one! The material is certainly more substantial than some of the featherweight mountaineering jackets that are being sold today, but it also isn't a Carhart jacket, or an ice climbing hard shell!
Hi. I'm new to this forum, so please excuse me for starting off on a jacket related thread, rather than a topid that is more directly related to guns/shooting (I'll admit, it does seem sacrilegious to do things this way).
Anyway, I have had the MH Sub Zero SL Jacket for about 10 years, and I've been fairly happy with it. The jacket has a lot of loft, and is quite warm (not so much as their "Absolute Zero" line, but I don't assume you are planning to use this jacket at the North Pole, or on an ascent of an 8,000 meter peak). Nevertheless, I've used my coat on many winter backpacking trips, including high climbs in the Presidential Range in winter (Mt. Washington, etc), and many winter ascents of Colorado peaks (including some of our 14'ers).
My favorite part about the Sub Zero Jacket is its wonderful hood. The hood is very lofty, warm, and adjustable, and the jacket simply wouldn't be in the same league without it. I'm also happy with the wind/water resistance that is provided by the shell material on this garment. It isn't a rain coat to be sure, but it has protected me against plenty of slushy/wet snow squalls over the years.
My biggest gripe with the jacket is that the down has migrated a bit in the elbows, leaving a somewhat uninsulated layer near the fold of the elbow (of course, now the back of the elbow is even more insulated). Natuarally, with the down movement away from the inside of the elbow, arm movements are more natural and less constricted. But, it is also less warm in that one specific area. Honestly, it isn't too much of an issue if I've properly layered under the coat, but I think it's a point worth mentioning.
I have found that you can redistribute the down to some degree by tumble drying the jacket with a few tennis balls. I do this about once a year and it works fine. I just wish the baffling would have been designed a bit better in that elbow area (elsewhere in the jacket it is fine, and things may have changed in the design to correct this problem in the 10 years since I bought the jacket).
Now, to move this answer in a bit of shooting related direction:
Keep in mind that this garment was designed for mountaineering related activities. As such, the shell material is (intentionally) fairly lightweight. While that is great for packing the jacket, you might want to consider what you are going to be asking of this coat. Are you going to be traveling through thick underbrush that could snag and tear it? Are you going to be shooting from the prone position with it? If so, will you be on a shooting mat, or crawling through the brush?
I mention these points just because they are worth considering if you haven't ever touched one of the jackets to evaluate the shell material for your purposes. These are fine jackets, but I wouldn't want to belly crawl in one! The material is certainly more substantial than some of the featherweight mountaineering jackets that are being sold today, but it also isn't a Carhart jacket, or an ice climbing hard shell!
Re: Down parkas?
Generally speaking, down over-parkas for sub-arctic military-type sniping work are expensive. They are great as your outer layer (especially if you're proned out, or just trying to survive and do routine work with minimal movement).
The latest military overparkas usually use extremely lightweight but lofty hollow-core synthetic fibers and are designed to cover your first few clothing layers AND body armor/load gear -- so they'll be wookie-cut.
You can buy surplus and clearance ECWCS layer 7 "Happy Suit" parkas and pants at fairly reasonable prices (half the cost of down parka and trousers), and even newer Multicam sets (at the cost of down or higher).
If you need different colors or camouflage for operational areas you can put on an old fish-tail parka or night desert parka -- which will also provide another windproof layer.
New England Overshoes (NEOS) makes very good overboots (some with snow gaiters built-in) to take your winter boots down a few more degrees with traction, and there are boot blankets ("Happy Boots") for when you're static.
Eddie Bauer makes very good, reasonably priced down gloves. Add good poly liners and slide the whole set into sub-zero mittens and you're set.
The best waterproof mission stuff will fold up small, roll out big, and weigh nothing.
Generally speaking, down over-parkas for sub-arctic military-type sniping work are expensive. They are great as your outer layer (especially if you're proned out, or just trying to survive and do routine work with minimal movement).
The latest military overparkas usually use extremely lightweight but lofty hollow-core synthetic fibers and are designed to cover your first few clothing layers AND body armor/load gear -- so they'll be wookie-cut.
You can buy surplus and clearance ECWCS layer 7 "Happy Suit" parkas and pants at fairly reasonable prices (half the cost of down parka and trousers), and even newer Multicam sets (at the cost of down or higher).
If you need different colors or camouflage for operational areas you can put on an old fish-tail parka or night desert parka -- which will also provide another windproof layer.
New England Overshoes (NEOS) makes very good overboots (some with snow gaiters built-in) to take your winter boots down a few more degrees with traction, and there are boot blankets ("Happy Boots") for when you're static.
Eddie Bauer makes very good, reasonably priced down gloves. Add good poly liners and slide the whole set into sub-zero mittens and you're set.
The best waterproof mission stuff will fold up small, roll out big, and weigh nothing.
Re: Down parkas?
Since you live in an area with wet winters I would avoid down like the plague. Go with some type of synthetic insulation that will be light weight and still work when it gets wet. We have very cold dry winters here and I won't wear down at all. It's far too easy to get it wet through submersion or exertion and then it's useless.
Since you live in an area with wet winters I would avoid down like the plague. Go with some type of synthetic insulation that will be light weight and still work when it gets wet. We have very cold dry winters here and I won't wear down at all. It's far too easy to get it wet through submersion or exertion and then it's useless.
Re: Down parkas?
Roger. MIL-SPEC usually calls for gear for two types of winter -- Cold-Dry and Cold-Wet.
The Extreme Cold Weather Clothing System has seven layers.
Roger. MIL-SPEC usually calls for gear for two types of winter -- Cold-Dry and Cold-Wet.
The Extreme Cold Weather Clothing System has seven layers.
Re: Down parkas?
Good call on the cold weather clothing..The parka and pants are designed by WildThings gear out of NH..they design and make the finest alpine cold weather clothing on the planet Period.
http://www.wildthingsgear.com/wt-tactical
Ive been using their stuff for years now and would never even consider any other brand for cold weather clothing..
Good call on the cold weather clothing..The parka and pants are designed by WildThings gear out of NH..they design and make the finest alpine cold weather clothing on the planet Period.
http://www.wildthingsgear.com/wt-tactical
Ive been using their stuff for years now and would never even consider any other brand for cold weather clothing..
Re: Down parkas?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ykrvak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since you live in an area with wet winters I would avoid down like the plague. Go with some type of synthetic insulation that will be light weight and still work when it gets wet. We have very cold dry winters here and I won't wear down at all. It's far too easy to get it wet through submersion or exertion and then it's useless. </div></div>
Personally, I don't believe that the down vs. synthetic issue is that black and white. Although I own plenty of synthetic clothing/sleeping material, I believe that nature still knows best when it comes to insulation for extremely cold environments!
I used to subscribe to the same philosophy that you've described, but I later discovered that down has a great value to most people who spend time outside in brutally cold conditions:
1) Down is warmer, lighter, and more packable than synthetics.
2) Down insulation lasts a lot longer.
While it is true that down loses its loft when soaked, it really does take a LOT of moisture before this happens to any noticeable degree. Simply put, catastrophic wetting of insulation layers is rare for most people, in most conditions. Although many synthetics retain their loft when thoroughly soaked, you'll still freeze with those when they're wet. I learned most of these lessons the hard way, with plenty of nights spent out in the wilderness (both freezing cold, and warm), and I ultimately came to give down more respect than the marketers of synthetics might. Additionally, since many down jackets (like the one the OP asked about) come with highly water resistant shells, the odds of wetting that insulation from external sources is greatly reduced.
By way of example, I once had a tent partner accidentally spill a bottle of water on my down sleeping bag during a mountaineering trip in sub-zero conditions. Fortunately this bag had a dryloft shell (similar to what is used on the Sub Zero jacket), and the water was kept out of the insulation!
I firmly believe that the best course of action (whether you are wearing down or synthetics) is to be religious about keeping your insulation as dry as practically possible. If you are sweating heavily, you are layered too heavily. If you are being soaked to the core by precipitation, then you probably didn't include a proper shell layer in your system. And, if your jacket is being soaked through submersion while in a pack (or on your body), you've probably done something else wrong. Plus, if it's very cold and snowing, the precip won't soak the jacket anyway.
Perspiration can ultimately impact the insulative properties of down, given enough time. That's one of the reasons that vapor barrier liners were created for sleeping bags. But, such events don't occur quickly, and while a member of a polar expedition might need to protect his/her loft with a vapor barrier sleeping bag liner (when using that bag for months on end), it really isn't an issue that most of us need to be too concerned about, given the length of time that most of us are in the field.
I hope the OP can provide some more information regarding his goals with this jacket, since this might make a big difference in whether or not I (or anyone else) would recommend it. We often choose rifles for specific purposes, and similarly we often need to choose clothing to fit our purposes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ykrvak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since you live in an area with wet winters I would avoid down like the plague. Go with some type of synthetic insulation that will be light weight and still work when it gets wet. We have very cold dry winters here and I won't wear down at all. It's far too easy to get it wet through submersion or exertion and then it's useless. </div></div>
Personally, I don't believe that the down vs. synthetic issue is that black and white. Although I own plenty of synthetic clothing/sleeping material, I believe that nature still knows best when it comes to insulation for extremely cold environments!
I used to subscribe to the same philosophy that you've described, but I later discovered that down has a great value to most people who spend time outside in brutally cold conditions:
1) Down is warmer, lighter, and more packable than synthetics.
2) Down insulation lasts a lot longer.
While it is true that down loses its loft when soaked, it really does take a LOT of moisture before this happens to any noticeable degree. Simply put, catastrophic wetting of insulation layers is rare for most people, in most conditions. Although many synthetics retain their loft when thoroughly soaked, you'll still freeze with those when they're wet. I learned most of these lessons the hard way, with plenty of nights spent out in the wilderness (both freezing cold, and warm), and I ultimately came to give down more respect than the marketers of synthetics might. Additionally, since many down jackets (like the one the OP asked about) come with highly water resistant shells, the odds of wetting that insulation from external sources is greatly reduced.
By way of example, I once had a tent partner accidentally spill a bottle of water on my down sleeping bag during a mountaineering trip in sub-zero conditions. Fortunately this bag had a dryloft shell (similar to what is used on the Sub Zero jacket), and the water was kept out of the insulation!
I firmly believe that the best course of action (whether you are wearing down or synthetics) is to be religious about keeping your insulation as dry as practically possible. If you are sweating heavily, you are layered too heavily. If you are being soaked to the core by precipitation, then you probably didn't include a proper shell layer in your system. And, if your jacket is being soaked through submersion while in a pack (or on your body), you've probably done something else wrong. Plus, if it's very cold and snowing, the precip won't soak the jacket anyway.
Perspiration can ultimately impact the insulative properties of down, given enough time. That's one of the reasons that vapor barrier liners were created for sleeping bags. But, such events don't occur quickly, and while a member of a polar expedition might need to protect his/her loft with a vapor barrier sleeping bag liner (when using that bag for months on end), it really isn't an issue that most of us need to be too concerned about, given the length of time that most of us are in the field.
I hope the OP can provide some more information regarding his goals with this jacket, since this might make a big difference in whether or not I (or anyone else) would recommend it. We often choose rifles for specific purposes, and similarly we often need to choose clothing to fit our purposes.
Re: Down parkas?
Any advise or experience on Wiggys. It is supposed to made here in the U.S.A.
wiggys.com
Any advise or experience on Wiggys. It is supposed to made here in the U.S.A.
wiggys.com
Re: Down parkas?
I really like Wiggys gear. They make really nice sleeping bags as well.
Like most good and effective stuff it's pricey but worth it.
Concur with down. It's hard to improve over nature.
I really like Wiggys gear. They make really nice sleeping bags as well.
Like most good and effective stuff it's pricey but worth it.
Concur with down. It's hard to improve over nature.
Re: Down parkas?
That Wiggys gear looks like some good stuff at comparatively good price.
I also apologise. I should have been more clear what my intended use is. It really is for a general,outdoor use in winter here in CT and where ever else. Realistically 90% of the will be in Southern CT. Nothing too extreme in the foreseeable future, but you never know. The way winter is going this year, I wont need more than a fleece.
That Wiggys gear looks like some good stuff at comparatively good price.
I also apologise. I should have been more clear what my intended use is. It really is for a general,outdoor use in winter here in CT and where ever else. Realistically 90% of the will be in Southern CT. Nothing too extreme in the foreseeable future, but you never know. The way winter is going this year, I wont need more than a fleece.
Re: Down parkas?
Ive used Wiggys gear including his poncho liners and its excellent. not the lightest but very warm and well made.
Ive used Wiggys gear including his poncho liners and its excellent. not the lightest but very warm and well made.
Re: Down parkas?
Personally I recommend the Integral Designs Dolomitti
http://www.integraldesigns.com/product_detail.cfm?id=696&CFID=144902&CFTOKEN=88522340
I have been warm in Alaska down to -40 maybe a few degress colder with the Dolomitti over layers. Pertex shell keeps moisture out yet will allow body heat to dry under layers and stop the wind cold. The sewn on hood means no gap for wind to find a way in. It packs up quite small, is light to carry around, mine lasted years and I spent up to 4 days a week in the backcountry over the 1990s.
Since you are in New England, WildThings is another. EP jacket is still one of my fav pieces. WT Makalu/Iditarod parka was/is considered the warmest parka on earth.
Also Patagonia DAS or even PuffBall line.
I 100% beleive in synthetic clothing for winter. Around civilization as I understand is your primary use, down is OK. What many outdoor users do not understand is, synthetic filled clothing with a softshell type shell like Pertex will allow under layers to dry while you are wearing the parka. The synthetic fill will dry quickly even in the backcountry VS down will stay damp and continue to gather moisture with use, gaining weight and losing loft. Rooting around in snow like in bolt holes and such, down will become useless rather quickly. One of my safeties while guiding in Alaska developed due to the use of down clothing, actually poor judgment but if synthetic clothing were used, I beleive the young lady would have been just fine.
Of those two, Mountain Hardware Sub Zero SL. I sold many of these in Alaska. I think these still have a detachable hood that will allow some blow in but around town should not be an issue but removing the hood for around town is another option. Coin to coin I would go with the Dolomitti, it comes in camo/OD/DE too.
Personally I recommend the Integral Designs Dolomitti
http://www.integraldesigns.com/product_detail.cfm?id=696&CFID=144902&CFTOKEN=88522340
I have been warm in Alaska down to -40 maybe a few degress colder with the Dolomitti over layers. Pertex shell keeps moisture out yet will allow body heat to dry under layers and stop the wind cold. The sewn on hood means no gap for wind to find a way in. It packs up quite small, is light to carry around, mine lasted years and I spent up to 4 days a week in the backcountry over the 1990s.
Since you are in New England, WildThings is another. EP jacket is still one of my fav pieces. WT Makalu/Iditarod parka was/is considered the warmest parka on earth.
Also Patagonia DAS or even PuffBall line.
I 100% beleive in synthetic clothing for winter. Around civilization as I understand is your primary use, down is OK. What many outdoor users do not understand is, synthetic filled clothing with a softshell type shell like Pertex will allow under layers to dry while you are wearing the parka. The synthetic fill will dry quickly even in the backcountry VS down will stay damp and continue to gather moisture with use, gaining weight and losing loft. Rooting around in snow like in bolt holes and such, down will become useless rather quickly. One of my safeties while guiding in Alaska developed due to the use of down clothing, actually poor judgment but if synthetic clothing were used, I beleive the young lady would have been just fine.
Of those two, Mountain Hardware Sub Zero SL. I sold many of these in Alaska. I think these still have a detachable hood that will allow some blow in but around town should not be an issue but removing the hood for around town is another option. Coin to coin I would go with the Dolomitti, it comes in camo/OD/DE too.
Re: Down parkas?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Coloradocop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My favorite part about the Sub Zero Jacket is its wonderful hood. The hood is very lofty, warm, and adjustable, and the jacket simply wouldn't be in the same league without it. I'm also happy with the wind/water resistance that is provided by the shell material on this garment. It isn't a rain coat to be sure, but it has protected me against plenty of slushy/wet snow squalls over the years.
My biggest gripe with the jacket is that the down has migrated a bit in the elbows, leaving a somewhat uninsulated layer near the fold of the elbow (of course, now the back of the elbow is even more insulated). Natuarally, with the down movement away from the inside of the elbow, arm movements are more natural and less constricted. But, it is also less warm in that one specific area. Honestly, it isn't too much of an issue if I've properly layered under the coat, but I think it's a point worth mentioning.
I have found that you can redistribute the down to some degree by tumble drying the jacket with a few tennis balls. I do this about once a year and it works fine. I just wish the baffling would have been designed a bit better in that elbow area (elsewhere in the jacket it is fine, and things may have changed in the design to correct this problem in the 10 years since I bought the jacket).
Now, to move this answer in a bit of shooting related direction:
Keep in mind that this garment was designed for mountaineering related activities. As such, the shell material is (intentionally) fairly lightweight. While that is great for packing the jacket, you might want to consider what you are going to be asking of this coat. Are you going to be traveling through thick underbrush that could snag and tear it? Are you going to be shooting from the prone position with it? If so, will you be on a shooting mat, or crawling through the brush?
I mention these points just because they are worth considering if you haven't ever touched one of the jackets to evaluate the shell material for your purposes. These are fine jackets, but I wouldn't want to belly crawl in one! The material is certainly more substantial than some of the featherweight mountaineering jackets that are being sold today, but it also isn't a Carhart jacket, or an ice climbing hard shell! </div></div>
Good post - I have the MH Sub Zero Parka (for about 14 years) and agree with everything posted above. Mine has seen little wear as I live in Tennessee and haven't climbed the peaks of the world, but for the few days of the year that get under 20 degrees it is a nice coat. I have experienced a little down migration in some of the high wear areas and the outer shell material is sensitive to sharp objects (although it is ripstop)
As far as the water issue, if it is warm enough for water to be wet, you won't be wearing this coat. Secondly, treatments are on the market for down wash and water repellency to treat the shell - just don't go swimming in it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Coloradocop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My favorite part about the Sub Zero Jacket is its wonderful hood. The hood is very lofty, warm, and adjustable, and the jacket simply wouldn't be in the same league without it. I'm also happy with the wind/water resistance that is provided by the shell material on this garment. It isn't a rain coat to be sure, but it has protected me against plenty of slushy/wet snow squalls over the years.
My biggest gripe with the jacket is that the down has migrated a bit in the elbows, leaving a somewhat uninsulated layer near the fold of the elbow (of course, now the back of the elbow is even more insulated). Natuarally, with the down movement away from the inside of the elbow, arm movements are more natural and less constricted. But, it is also less warm in that one specific area. Honestly, it isn't too much of an issue if I've properly layered under the coat, but I think it's a point worth mentioning.
I have found that you can redistribute the down to some degree by tumble drying the jacket with a few tennis balls. I do this about once a year and it works fine. I just wish the baffling would have been designed a bit better in that elbow area (elsewhere in the jacket it is fine, and things may have changed in the design to correct this problem in the 10 years since I bought the jacket).
Now, to move this answer in a bit of shooting related direction:
Keep in mind that this garment was designed for mountaineering related activities. As such, the shell material is (intentionally) fairly lightweight. While that is great for packing the jacket, you might want to consider what you are going to be asking of this coat. Are you going to be traveling through thick underbrush that could snag and tear it? Are you going to be shooting from the prone position with it? If so, will you be on a shooting mat, or crawling through the brush?
I mention these points just because they are worth considering if you haven't ever touched one of the jackets to evaluate the shell material for your purposes. These are fine jackets, but I wouldn't want to belly crawl in one! The material is certainly more substantial than some of the featherweight mountaineering jackets that are being sold today, but it also isn't a Carhart jacket, or an ice climbing hard shell! </div></div>
Good post - I have the MH Sub Zero Parka (for about 14 years) and agree with everything posted above. Mine has seen little wear as I live in Tennessee and haven't climbed the peaks of the world, but for the few days of the year that get under 20 degrees it is a nice coat. I have experienced a little down migration in some of the high wear areas and the outer shell material is sensitive to sharp objects (although it is ripstop)
As far as the water issue, if it is warm enough for water to be wet, you won't be wearing this coat. Secondly, treatments are on the market for down wash and water repellency to treat the shell - just don't go swimming in it.
Re: Down parkas?
Dolomitti in olive (very nice):
Their parka and bib outer shells are nice, too:
Dolomitti in olive (very nice):
Their parka and bib outer shells are nice, too:
Re: Down parkas?
Quote from 45.308
"I 100% beleive in synthetic clothing for winter. Around civilization as I understand is your primary use, down is OK. What many outdoor users do not understand is, synthetic filled clothing with a softshell type shell like Pertex will allow under layers to dry while you are wearing the parka. The synthetic fill will dry quickly even in the backcountry VS down will stay damp and continue to gather moisture with use, gaining weight and losing loft. Rooting around in snow like in bolt holes and such, down will become useless rather quickly. One of my safeties while guiding in Alaska developed due to the use of down clothing, actually poor judgment but if synthetic clothing were used, I beleive the young lady would have been just fine."
My point put much more eloquently. After many many many thousands of miles traveling and guiding in the bush of Alaska during the winter time you learn a couple things. Indeed nature does do some things better. That's why I use a wolverine and wolf ruff, a fur hat, and beaver overmitts. I don't tend to debate on the internet and I'm not going to bore everyone with my experience resume BUT, there are much better products out there than down for extended winter exposure. Go with gear that will work when things go wrong because they will.
Quote from 45.308
"I 100% beleive in synthetic clothing for winter. Around civilization as I understand is your primary use, down is OK. What many outdoor users do not understand is, synthetic filled clothing with a softshell type shell like Pertex will allow under layers to dry while you are wearing the parka. The synthetic fill will dry quickly even in the backcountry VS down will stay damp and continue to gather moisture with use, gaining weight and losing loft. Rooting around in snow like in bolt holes and such, down will become useless rather quickly. One of my safeties while guiding in Alaska developed due to the use of down clothing, actually poor judgment but if synthetic clothing were used, I beleive the young lady would have been just fine."
My point put much more eloquently. After many many many thousands of miles traveling and guiding in the bush of Alaska during the winter time you learn a couple things. Indeed nature does do some things better. That's why I use a wolverine and wolf ruff, a fur hat, and beaver overmitts. I don't tend to debate on the internet and I'm not going to bore everyone with my experience resume BUT, there are much better products out there than down for extended winter exposure. Go with gear that will work when things go wrong because they will.
Re: Down parkas?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 45.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I recommend the Integral Designs Dolomitti
http://www.integraldesigns.com/product_detail.cfm?id=696&CFID=144902&CFTOKEN=88522340
I have been warm in Alaska down to -40 maybe a few degress colder with the Dolomitti over layers. Pertex shell keeps moisture out yet will allow body heat to dry under layers and stop the wind cold. The sewn on hood means no gap for wind to find a way in. It packs up quite small, is light to carry around, mine lasted years and I spent up to 4 days a week in the backcountry over the 1990s.
Since you are in New England, WildThings is another. EP jacket is still one of my fav pieces. WT Makalu/Iditarod parka was/is considered the warmest parka on earth.
Also Patagonia DAS or even PuffBall line.
I 100% beleive in synthetic clothing for winter. Around civilization as I understand is your primary use, down is OK. What many outdoor users do not understand is, synthetic filled clothing with a softshell type shell like Pertex will allow under layers to dry while you are wearing the parka. The synthetic fill will dry quickly even in the backcountry VS down will stay damp and continue to gather moisture with use, gaining weight and losing loft. Rooting around in snow like in bolt holes and such, down will become useless rather quickly. One of my safeties while guiding in Alaska developed due to the use of down clothing, actually poor judgment but if synthetic clothing were used, I beleive the young lady would have been just fine.
Of those two, Mountain Hardware Sub Zero SL. I sold many of these in Alaska. I think these still have a detachable hood that will allow some blow in but around town should not be an issue but removing the hood for around town is another option. Coin to coin I would go with the Dolomitti, it comes in camo/OD/DE too. </div></div>
I followed this advice last Fall and really like my Integral Designs Dolomitti jacket. I also have the hoodless version of the MH Sub-Zero. They both have their place but the ID jacket drapes better and actually feels warmer than the MH jacket. I understand that ID is off-shoring the sewing of their non-military line as we speak so I can't speak for future quality of work.
Pat
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 45.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I recommend the Integral Designs Dolomitti
http://www.integraldesigns.com/product_detail.cfm?id=696&CFID=144902&CFTOKEN=88522340
I have been warm in Alaska down to -40 maybe a few degress colder with the Dolomitti over layers. Pertex shell keeps moisture out yet will allow body heat to dry under layers and stop the wind cold. The sewn on hood means no gap for wind to find a way in. It packs up quite small, is light to carry around, mine lasted years and I spent up to 4 days a week in the backcountry over the 1990s.
Since you are in New England, WildThings is another. EP jacket is still one of my fav pieces. WT Makalu/Iditarod parka was/is considered the warmest parka on earth.
Also Patagonia DAS or even PuffBall line.
I 100% beleive in synthetic clothing for winter. Around civilization as I understand is your primary use, down is OK. What many outdoor users do not understand is, synthetic filled clothing with a softshell type shell like Pertex will allow under layers to dry while you are wearing the parka. The synthetic fill will dry quickly even in the backcountry VS down will stay damp and continue to gather moisture with use, gaining weight and losing loft. Rooting around in snow like in bolt holes and such, down will become useless rather quickly. One of my safeties while guiding in Alaska developed due to the use of down clothing, actually poor judgment but if synthetic clothing were used, I beleive the young lady would have been just fine.
Of those two, Mountain Hardware Sub Zero SL. I sold many of these in Alaska. I think these still have a detachable hood that will allow some blow in but around town should not be an issue but removing the hood for around town is another option. Coin to coin I would go with the Dolomitti, it comes in camo/OD/DE too. </div></div>
I followed this advice last Fall and really like my Integral Designs Dolomitti jacket. I also have the hoodless version of the MH Sub-Zero. They both have their place but the ID jacket drapes better and actually feels warmer than the MH jacket. I understand that ID is off-shoring the sewing of their non-military line as we speak so I can't speak for future quality of work.
Pat
Re: Down parkas?
For sub zero ops I freakin loved, and still love wearing my 'Wild Things'(Nextex EPIC, Primaloft) jacket when it's real cold. Down, screw that, takes forwever to dry if it gets wet.
With one of those vacuum bags it can pack into a 1" layer on the bottom of a sea bag and it fits in most other brand stuff sacs as well. The system of jacket and trousers will work so far to a winchill of -30. I haven't experienced anything colder with the system yet due to the fact that 75MPH in the temps here only go to single digits on the bike.
For sub zero ops I freakin loved, and still love wearing my 'Wild Things'(Nextex EPIC, Primaloft) jacket when it's real cold. Down, screw that, takes forwever to dry if it gets wet.
With one of those vacuum bags it can pack into a 1" layer on the bottom of a sea bag and it fits in most other brand stuff sacs as well. The system of jacket and trousers will work so far to a winchill of -30. I haven't experienced anything colder with the system yet due to the fact that 75MPH in the temps here only go to single digits on the bike.
